Club 1872 statement

SDF said:
Genuine question - Do we even have a definitive list on who is on the Club 1872 board ?

Last I heard Rev McQuarrie and someone else had both chucked it and there was the continual stories of internal strife, public fallin outs and discord.

Club 1872 was a great idea but has been nothing but a basketcase in all honesty.
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They sent out the Q3 2020 members update in Sept, talks about 2 people stepping down.

 
Harbour Bear said:
C1872 will never have the financial power to maintain the level of Mr King's shareholding.

Following X number of new share issues in the years ahead, where other shareholders and new investors have the resources to maintain and increase their holding, c1872's (King's current holding) would simply be diluted over time.

I love my club, but uniting as one supporter body/organisation to be able to sustain this level if fan ownership over a long period of time has proved beyond us to date over the last 148 years.
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This. We would start with 30% but would soon see that diluted by further share issues rendering the whole thing pointless
 
weeneebs said:
Its almost got a feeling of taking the stabilisers off your first bike, Mr King has set us on our way and he is fully entitled to wind down his involvement when he so desires, got the apprehensive feelings like so many other bears at the news however.
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I like your analogy. ;)
 
supersonic said:
If there are 7k paying members and no one on this board has an idea what has been happening there for the last 2 years and who is a director then alarm bells are ringing in my head.
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We know that 2 Directors resigned recently
Rev Stuart MacQuarrie and Alan Fraser and we know that it leaves only 3 Directors in office.
There should be 5 Directors and this is a recent change because it was originally 5
If C1872 hopes to raise £13m then we really need top Professionals and Business leaders on the board ASAP.
Think elections next year should see interesting candidates now.
 
TheFridge said:
This. We would start with 30% but would soon see that diluted by further share issues rendering the whole thing pointless
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You seem to think that we will be doing share issues every 2 minutes going forward.

We are already nearing the end of being able to go to that well as it is.
 
gersrus71 said:
That’s not exactly what he said.
What he said was he couldn’t influence what any family members would do with his shares when he was no longer here.
Ie no way would he sell to a dodgy fucker but he couldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t happen in the future when he is gone by some family member who may not have the same in built affection for us that he does.
He wants the shares to be in the hands of people he knows won’t sell them no matter how much is offered.
That’s where the fans come in as none of us would sell to some crook.
He is basically trying to safeguard the club from future predators.
I think it’s an excellent gesture and as he pointed out he could have probably have doubled his cash if he wanted but is choosing to take a slight loss.
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Aye fair enough mate that’s one way of looking at it! I look at it from the view that if my old man owned rangers he would be in no doubt that it would safe
 
If the club 1872 do buy the shares I’d like them to have max 1 board member . That board member has to be a credible businessman or woman. It can not be a random fan who wants a blazer. So they have control to block stuff but they don’t run the club day to day
 
Tagsbear said:
I’m dumbfounded when it comes to this stuff, since I joined this board it has always been pro fan ownership, now theres a chance to make a meaningful move toward it and the same folk Ive seen shouting from the rooftops about it, demanding it, are now poopooing it.

Bizarre.
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Everyone is in favour of fan ownership - just not "those" fans
 
In principle it seems like a good idea however when you look closely at it, it never going to work.

20,000 new members paying £650 being found over 3 years will be nigh on impossible especially given the current climate.

C1872 has also been found wanting re resignations and infighting. Do they represent the supporters?

This is also not putting fresh money in to the club, it's simply buying Dave Kings shares and thankfully he's not wanting a profit. What happens about fresh investment which is clearly needed?

Unfortunately I think it's bound to fail.
 
High Society said:
We know that 2 Directors resigned recently
Rev Stuart MacQuarrie and Alan Fraser and we know that it leaves only 3 Directors in office.
There should be 5 Directors and this is a recent change because it was originally 5
If C1872 hopes to raise £13m then we really need top Professionals and Business leaders on the board ASAP.
Think elections next year should see interesting candidates now.
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Alan Fraser resigned during lockdown in July, shortly after our last update. Although Alan’s time on the Board was short we thank him for that time and his offer to assist Club 1872 on specific projects once things return to some sort of normality. Stuart MacQuarrie resigned at the start of September after serving on the Board for a period of almost three years. We thank Stuart for his time on the Club 1872 Board and wish him well for the future. There is no requirement under the Articles for elections at this time and, operationally, Club 1872 is unaffected. It is the Board’s intention to examine its options once the ongoing restrictions imposed by Covid-19 are lifted and things return to a degree of normality
 
Gut feeling i dont like this after all we have been thro since King ousted the spivs i have always felt safe with him basically running the show even in the background.
 
Not quite sure about this. Where would it leave Park and the current directors who have put their own cash in. Why do existing directors not buy from Dave King?
Would we get 20,000 @ £650 each. ?
Maybe too early to decide.
 
This is brilliant news how many years now has people been saying the fan's need a bigger say. We can't now turn round and say I don't know if I want this we absolutely need this it's a voice in the boardroom we have always yearned for. It will be a democratically elected voice speaking for a big set of fan's. Count me in it's the way forward.
 
jdm1873 said:
In principle it seems like a good idea however when you look closely at it, it never going to work.

20,000 new members paying £650 being found over 3 years will be nigh on impossible especially given the current climate.

C1872 has also been found wanting re resignations and infighting. Do they represent the supporters?

This is also not putting fresh money in to the club, it's simply buying Dave Kings shares and thankfully he's not wanting a profit. What happens about fresh investment which is clearly needed?

Unfortunately I think it's bound to fail.
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That figure is incorrect as they have monthly fee's for each current member and money in the bank as it is.
 
So this could potentially lead to fan ownership if Club 1872 do become the major shareholder by the time the purchase is complete?

In all honesty I've yet to be fully convinced by Club 1872.
 
sapper said:
Likewise Im past £11.00 a month can't remember how I came to donate that figure, but been doing it since RST days. So donated quite a tidy wee sum so far, but raising that further would require evidence of a business plan / model for going forward.
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Exactly the same here. Have been on the verge of chucking it a few times, especially after some of the childish social media stuff. Will be interesting to hear the plans. I would expect this development will attract a few different people with various agendas into the fold...
 
The whole point of fan ownership groups is to prevent the likes of what we have gone through in recent years happening.

King always said he wanted to sell back to the fans for the same reason.

This was meant to happen, maybe the surprise is the timing.

Club 1872 is a democratic model, and although at times it has appeared to be compromised it is by far a more preferable major controlling interest than the likes of Whyte and barra boy shadowy asset strippers.

I'm interested to see how they expect to move forward considering there is a structure of one member one vote which includes one off payment life members and direct debit contributors.

There are potential negatives in the small detail, but I hope they pull it off.
 
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High Society said:
We know that 2 Directors resigned recently
Rev Stuart MacQuarrie and Alan Fraser and we know that it leaves only 3 Directors in office.
There should be 5 Directors and this is a recent change because it was originally 5
If C1872 hopes to raise £13m then we really need top Professionals and Business leaders on the board ASAP.
Think elections next year should see interesting candidates now.
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well we better get some information from these guys ASAP to let us know why they resigned
 
Birkenshaw Bear said:
It’s not a cliche. Look at the history of all fan owned organisations that have tried anything at Rangers.

Even the current hierarchy at Club 1872 have been involved in resignations and falling outs.

It’s a recipe for disaster.

I know what you’re trying to say, but it isn’t a cliche. It happens time and time again with us as a fan base.
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Far better to sell on the open market and let spies back in ? This is a wonderful opportunity to restructure Club 1872 over the next 3 years and be prepared to participate in the running of the club
 
TheFridge said:
This. We would start with 30% but would soon see that diluted by further share issues rendering the whole thing pointless
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Of course, Club 1872 would need to vote in favour of those further share issues and, if they held over 25% of shares, could veto any proposal to do so if it had a catastrophic effect on their influence.
 
Reads to me that Dave King knows he’s not getting any younger and chances are his kids won’t be interested in being involved with us when Dave King eventually passes or retires

Therefore he’s looking to offload now which is fair enough

Hopefully c1872 can get the numbers required although I suspect some will throw mud at this
 
EndOfDays said:
That figure is incorrect as they have monthly fee's for each current member and money in the bank as it is.
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Not so sure.

The group wants to sign up 20,000 members who will have a lifetime vote on the shares. That's not existing members and money in the bank.
 
So does a new contributor paying their share (1 of the 20,000) have the same say as some one who has contributed to C1872 since the beginning and who continues to do so? Messy.
 
bearspaw said:
There is some understanding to do here.

Firstly, at 25% "we" might be the biggest single shareholder, "we" would not be the majority shareholder.

Secondly I'd like to understand, if I for example chipped in £10k do I get Rangers shares that are in trust with Club1872? or am I buying a share of Club1872 who own the shares.

Thirdly, normally when you buy shares you are able to sell them. I take it this money is a write off and the "investor" has no value?

Fourthly, what is the constitution and shareholder agreement etc of Club1872? When I looked a couple of years ago I saw no evidence of people of sufficient business acumen and Commercial knowledge to sit on the board of an organisation like Rangers.

Fifthly, this is a difficult thing to do. Assume for the moment all the share/trust issues are actually simple and Club72 as a major shareholder appoint one (probably non-exec) director. That Director will not be in a position to trot back to the members and discuss the various day to day issues and challenges faced by the club, or indeed the confidential plans. How will folk react when an announcement of significance is made that the "rep" has known of for some time.


Interesting times
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I’m wondering whether C1872 could have an honorary appointee who has major experience in football clubs that would be our appointee on a renewable basis say every 2 years .

might even have to pay them a retainer and expenses but that would recognise there skills .

so let’s say example we appoint Dave King in that role , and we then give him further terms or we replace him with eg dick advocaat ?
 
If Dave King is looking to do this deal over 3 years does this mean Club1872 would look to ring-fence 20,000 Bears at £216 investment per person per year?

Club ownership by fans is a great idea but we will still need annual investment.
Once the shares are purchased is it realistic to say that Club 1872 will continue high levels of investment?

Might fan ownership potentially deter fresh investment from high income or high wealth individuals?

It looks like a phenomenal opportunity to secure the future of the club, Lots of questions will need to be answered.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Of course, Club 1872 would need to vote in favour of those further share issues and, if they held over 25% of shares, could veto any proposal to do so if it had a catastrophic effect on their influence.
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It could also, obviously, raise capital between share issues via a membership scheme and campaign for further funds during any rights/share issue in order to maintain it's holdings, just like any other shareholder.
 
I'm not sure if I like the sound of this or not?

I'm not overly confident or impressed in what Club1872 have done thus far.

I'll sit on the fence and wait for more information.
 
Are people thinking there would be a vote in every issue by members ? I'd imagine it would be like European clubs and a representative would be elected every year or 2, if they aren't up to it they would be replaced
 
This is extremely exciting and a massive opportunity

however. And there’s always a however

club1872 has not been a success, just reading the replies of this thread shows that

Club1872 need led
 
Haven't read every post but gut feeling is this is a direct challenge to the fans, or more likely Club 1872.

King basically saying if you really want influence, if you really want control then be prepared to spend a lot of money.

And if you don't want to do that, shut the eff up.
 
Everyone knows he wants to step down in his duties as Rangers chairman. He’s trying to do the right thing by giving back to the fans, I’m finding it a bit weird that people are having an issue with this. It’s an absolutely incredible gesture to sell his shares to the fans for far lower than they are worth.
 
Not sure if this is good news or not, will have to see how it plays out & what Club 1872's plan/vision is going forward.
 
jdm1873 said:
Not so sure.

The group wants to sign up 20,000 members who will have a lifetime vote on the shares. That's not existing members and money in the bank.
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They do but wont need to be 650 as they have other income and cash in bank.
 
Not good news, the fact they blocked individuals on Twitter speaks for itself.

Are they still twiddling their thumbs surrounding Safe Standing? Like what have they even done as an organisation rather than a statement here and there?
 
Stuart_WATP said:
Playing devils advocate, there are big European clubs with fan ownership, I'm sure Bayern Munich are like that.

I'm just unsure what funding club 1872 even have?
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You are of course 100% correct. Not sure Bayern are the example I would have used. German football has a reputation for clubs and individuals setting self interest and differences aside for the greater good of the game.

Scottish football has repeatedly demonstrated that it is incapable of doing likewise.

Hopefully any concerns I have are ultimately proved to be unnecessary and it turns out to be a great success. As you say there are numerous examples of major clubs run successfully with fan ownership so it can work.

Here's hoping.
 
EndOfDays said:
That figure is incorrect as they have monthly fee's for each current member and money in the bank as it is.
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Surely they could Not use existing cash for Legacy shareholders though ?

it would have to be as people have said 20k x 650 per person . I’m assuming it is limited to one share per person and eg I couldn’t buy 100 of them ?
 
It Is Old But Beautiful said:
Not good news, the fact they blocked individuals on Twitter speaks for itself.

Are they still twiddling their thumbs surrounding Safe Standing? Like what have they even done as an organisation rather than a statement here and there?
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What was that about mate seen a few mentioning them blocking people
 
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