European Super League Officially Announced - All Comments In This Thread - Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Spurs & Chelsea all out of it

I posted this on the Mourinho thread earlier today in response to the view that the CL was not a "closed shop"

No, it's not a closed shop, you are absolutely correct.

But in the grand scheme of things does Ajax's remarkable run to the semis or the Cypriot team who made the QF's really make a great deal of difference to the dispersal of cash?

It's not an egalitarian sporting competition either though.

It's a natural evolution of an economic model set up in the 1990s.

My point is that "the soul of football" was lost many moons ago. The EPL and CL were the game-changers. I was angry then but I don't really care anymore and find the outrage of people who support the CL but oppose this as a bit odd.

During that time we've gone from being a team capable of winning the CL (and let's face it between Souness, Smith and Advocaat they should have delivered one) to feasting on scraps from the EL and CL Group Stages (leaving aside 2012 and all that followed).

The big boys are getting a bit more market share and suddenly Man U and Liverpool fans (and ex-players and coaches) are suddenly exercised about it.

They were all happy to exploit the massive inequalities that allowed their respective clubs to prosper at the expense of both a genuinely competitive domestic competitions and the interests of their national teams (and the success of the England team was very much front and centre at the launch of the FA PL).

Perhaps I'm just too old and too cynical?

I firmly believe the damage was done years ago though and this is the consequences that football will now reap. This was both predictable and predicted back in the 1990s, I'm just surprised it took so long.

I also believe that if and when this does happen (and I still think there will be a deal with UEFA) that Tony from North London, Dave from Manchester and Esteban from Madrid will still be season ticket holders and that TV numbers will still be as strong despite all this "outrage".

It's not the crossing of the rubicon moment that's being made out to be, it's fight between two powerful vested interests.
 
iaatpies said:
Why shouldn't they be able to?

If teams want to launch their own venture then why should they be prevented from doing so? Domestic football will still exist. The EPL and it's distribution of TV money created conditions that were disadvantageous to clubs lower down the pyramid. Nobody complained when teams were struggling against relegation whilst earning millions from TV and paying tens of millions in transfer fees. Nobody complained when the numbers were stacked against Championship teams trying to survive following promotion or relegated teams when the parachute payments ran out.

This is about protecting the EPL and nothing more.
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Domestic football will still exist, but the pinnacle of football will no longer be available to all through merit. There will be no possibility, at all, of any other club other than the chosen few reaching the top. That is compounded with the fact it would run in direct opposition to existing UEFA tournaments, and by necessity, devaluing them and reducing their revenue, further widening the financial chasm this opens up. There is a finite number of minutes to broadcast in the day and a saturation point where the maximum revenue is reached. This idea hives BOTH off into the accounts of 12/15/20 clubs and that can only ever be at the expense of the rest of European football. That will, pretty bloody obviously, cascade down the leagues in every country in Europe.


Protecting the EPL? How about simply protecting Rangers?


When TV revenue is down for the CL and EL by a significant amount because the broadcasters are fighting to show this new Super-league and when Sky decide that the SPFL is pretty much redundant now as both a spectacle (no decent players due to lack of finance) and as a viable contender to replace the superleague as something to watch for the next generation, what happens to domestic Scottish football?




I find it staggering that you could say it is nobody else's business what these clubs do to the sport and it shows a complete lack of understanding over what is happening.


I was taught a saying in the army on day 1;

'If you are thinking, saying or doing something, and everyone else is thinking, saying or doing something different, you are wrong'

You are the only person I have heard say that this is not something for the smaller teams to concern themselves over and I cannot help but think back to that saying.


This proposal rips the heart out of the thin remaining notion of sporting merit in the game of football.
 
If Rangers of Celtic did get an invite, I think the SPFL would be quite easy to get around simply by negotiating a fee split - for example, 50% to the club, 50% to the Scottish pyramid.

(Not saying whether we should accept an invite; I'm just thinking of how it could be seen bloody-mindedly as an opportunity to inject funding into the Scottish game if an invite did arrive. I would prefer to be a slightly bigger fish in big-boy-free UEFA competitions.)
 
Tpol_rfc said:
It's depressing seeing the ignorance some posters are showing towards this proposal. You really just don't get it if you think that's what it is about.
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What about when Liverpool have had 5 bad seasons fans stopping going to games and results are poor. Be like NFL, they will just up sticks and move that team to Dublin, or some other City. As soon as a team doesn't contribute to eh cash generating machine it will be moved, the franchise owner will have the say. Fans will count for nothing.
 
iaatpies said:
We can't control what other businesses decide to do.

Too many fans look at how money transformed smaller clubs down south and wish that Rangers could get a slice of that money. If there's an argument that Rangers should be demanding more and looking to increase it's participation in a higher standard of football then fans can't criticise the super league clubs for doing the same. They want an elite competition where they control the money. There is absolutely no argument that it's right for Rangers to want to move to the EPL or to participate in another competition rather than the SPFL and yet criticise clubs for pursuing exactly that avenue.

If it's acceptable for Rangers to look elsewhere for a better league and more money then it's also acceptable for bigger clubs to do the same. The argument that it's unfair because it excludes clubs not deemed big enough is bunkum.
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I simply dont accept the premise of this argument at all.

Rangers have never seriously floated the idea of leaving this league. Beyond some comments on this forum, there is no widespread desire for it to happen in our fanbase either. Therefore your argument is predicated entirely on speculation and ifs and buts.

We dont have to defend a position we have never been in, so we are well within our rights to criticise a bunch of sneering, corporate shills trying to destroy the spirit of the game we all hold dear by setting up a closed shop where there is no meritocracy whatsoever.

In addition, the idea that this wont affect our club, or the thousands of other clubs across continent who arent involved, and that we should therefore shutup and accept it, is the real bunkum here.
 
Steve Snedden said:
I posted this on the Mourinho thread earlier today in response to the view that the CL was not a "closed shop"

No, it's not a closed shop, you are absolutely correct.

But in the grand scheme of things does Ajax's remarkable run to the semis or the Cypriot team who made the QF's really make a great deal of difference to the dispersal of cash?

It's not an egalitarian sporting competition either though.

It's a natural evolution of an economic model set up in the 1990s.

My point is that "the soul of football" was lost many moons ago. The EPL and CL were the game-changers. I was angry then but I don't really care anymore and find the outrage of people who support the CL but oppose this as a bit odd.

During that time we've gone from being a team capable of winning the CL (and let's face it between Souness, Smith and Advocaat they should have delivered one) to feasting on scraps from the EL and CL Group Stages (leaving aside 2012 and all that followed).

The big boys are getting a bit more market share and suddenly Man U and Liverpool fans (and ex-players and coaches) are suddenly exercised about it.

They were all happy to exploit the massive inequalities that allowed their respective clubs to prosper at the expense of both a genuinely competitive domestic competitions and the interests of their national teams (and the success of the England team was very much front and centre at the launch of the FA PL).

Perhaps I'm just too old and too cynical?

I firmly believe the damage was done years ago though and this is the consequences that football will now reap. This was both predictable and predicted back in the 1990s, I'm just surprised it took so long.

I also believe that if and when this does happen (and I still think there will be a deal with UEFA) that Tony from North London, Dave from Manchester and Esteban from Madrid will still be season ticket holders and that TV numbers will still be as strong despite all this "outrage".

It's not the crossing of the rubicon moment that's being made out to be, it's fight between two powerful vested interests.
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The damage was done years ago.

Setting up the EPL was detrimental to the English game overall.

Setting up the Champions League was detrimental to European club competition.

As was the Europa League.

As are UEFA's proposed changes to the Champions League.

We'd be far better served letting the big clubs wander off to their closed shop promised land and to try and rescue some kind of future for football.
 
YoungGer97 said:
I simply dont accept the premise of this argument at all.

Rangers have never seriously floated the idea of leaving this league. Beyond some comments on this forum, there is no widespread desire for it to happen in our fanbase either. Therefore your argument is predicated entirely on speculation and ifs and buts.

We dont have to defend a position we have never been in, so we are well within our rights to criticise a bunch of sneering, corporate shills trying to destroy the spirit of the game we all hold dear by setting up a closed shop where there is no meritocracy whatsoever.

In addition, the idea that this wont affect our club, or the thousands of other clubs across continent who arent involved, and that we should therefore shutup and accept it, is the real bunkum here.
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Its an argument made regularly by FF posters.

I'm simply asking what makes this different? Why do posters think that the club should be trying to move to the EPL, an Atlantic League or any other alternative and yet it's wrong for Man United and Real Madrid to want to do the same?
 
YoungGer97 said:
The backlash *is* football adjusting.

You're acting as if we live in some sort of anarcho capitalist dystopia where government regulations and community interests should hold no weight next to the wishes of investment bankers and a cartel of venture capitalists. Unfortunately for these rancid clubs they do hold weight.
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Thank you.
 
Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea will likely be banned from this season’s Champions League semi-finals, UEFA executive committee member Jesper Moller told broadcaster DR on Monday.

“The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season’s) Champions League tournament,” said Moller, who is the head of the Danish FA. “There is an extraordinary executive committee meeting on Friday.”

Reinstate teams?

Presumably similar for the Europa.
 
Been confirmed by Uefa - players from these 12 clubs will not be eligible to play in the Euros or World Cup.

The amount of damage the owners of these 12 clubs have done to the only thing they actually value the BRAND NAME is now possibly irreparable moving forward.
 
iaatpies said:
Its an argument made regularly by FF posters.

I'm simply asking what makes this different? Why do posters think that the club should be trying to move to the EPL, an Atlantic League or any other alternative and yet it's wrong for Man United and Real Madrid to want to do the same?
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Its an argument made by individuals who happen to be Rangers supporters. They can defend that position, the rest of us don't have to. That is why i dont accept your argument, you are essentially holding the rest of us to the opinions of other people.
 
UEFA must be genuinely worried that this is a go-er based upon all the threats they are throwing at this.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea will likely be banned from this season’s Champions League semi-finals, UEFA executive committee member Jesper Moller told broadcaster DR on Monday.

“The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season’s) Champions League tournament,” said Moller, who is the head of the Danish FA. “There is an extraordinary executive committee meeting on Friday.”

Reinstate teams?

Presumably similar for the Europa.
Click to expand...

The racists to be re-instated then? Brutal.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea will likely be banned from this season’s Champions League semi-finals, UEFA executive committee member Jesper Moller told broadcaster DR on Monday.

“The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season’s) Champions League tournament,” said Moller, who is the head of the Danish FA. “There is an extraordinary executive committee meeting on Friday.”

Reinstate teams?

Presumably similar for the Europa.
Click to expand...
I’d be surprised if this happened.
 
iaatpies said:
Its an argument made regularly by FF posters.

I'm simply asking what makes this different? Why do posters think that the club should be trying to move to the EPL, an Atlantic League or any other alternative and yet it's wrong for Man United and Real Madrid to want to do the same?
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At the very least, we're trying to level the playing field.

They're selling it and sticking a Tesco there.
 
WilkinsBullet said:
In a few years half their matches will be toured around the USA and China and not even played in their cities of origin. This will be an absolute circus. Welcome to the SoccerBowl
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The Italian Super cup is already usually played In Saudi Arabia.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea will likely be banned from this season’s Champions League semi-finals, UEFA executive committee member Jesper Moller told broadcaster DR on Monday.

“The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season’s) Champions League tournament,” said Moller, who is the head of the Danish FA. “There is an extraordinary executive committee meeting on Friday.”

Reinstate teams?

Presumably similar for the Europa.
Click to expand...
Aslong as those bastards slavia dont get reinstated
 
Kubala said:
At the very least, we're trying to level the playing field.

They're selling it and sticking a Tesco there.
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We're not trying to level the playing field. Fans looking for Rangers to move to the EPL are doing so because they look at clubs down south earning millions in TV and sponsorship money and are thinking that it's a good thing and something that the club should be trying to tap into. Rangers fans wanting to move to the EPL to access a more prestigious and wealthy league? No different to the owners of Man Utd or Liverpool wanting to do the same.
 
I wonder how the players contracts will stand if their clubs are removed from their leagues etc. Feel a bit sorry for some of these players. Its not their decision to do this but they might end up without European and National team football over something they cant control.
 
Isn't this just capitalism in action? If market forces mean it makes monetary sense for those businesses then why shouldn't they be allowed to do it?

Is that even what we're discussing? Or is it more a case that people are happy to let them try but it's a bit silly?
 
If Clubs went to the Government for Furlough payments during the pandemic then I think it gives the Government every right to get involved in this, Say the Government don't get in involved and English Football collapses thats a lot of people out of work
 
dt17 said:
That's your opinion.

However I'd say watching the likes of Barca & Real in the same competition is more exciting than Barca and the champions of Slovakia or wherever.

Now I do agree that it's unfair that teams from certain countries have to go through so many qualifiers but at least it's still doable.

This closed shop racket goes against everything.
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Real and barca already play in the same European Cup competition
 
petric said:
It is for a lot of players.

The person who you quoted is quite correct - a large number of players won’t care about representing their national team if it means they can earn millions, instead.

Players jetting off to China halfway through their career is a little evidence to support this.
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How many top players went to China?

The only one I can think of who was at his peak was Oscar and even then he was never that good. Most of the others were never actually world class or over the hill and looking for a final pay day (Mascherano, Tevez etc).
 
And good riddance to them.
Not Liverpool in particular but any of the big 6 or humongous 12 or Andy McFazeans Funky Wee 5 piece band or whatever the fúck those hallions want to brand themselves.

If the money from Shanghai or Wall St is such an attraction them by all means, move, wife, flute and fixins to boot, as the old song says, to the amber smoggy skies of Beijing or the meth addled ghetto shooting ranges of Chicago.
I'll be happy to hold the door open for them. And plant a size ten into a club executive's fat hole on the way through too.

So long, and don't forget to not send postcards home.
 
Broxbound Bear said:
Isn't this just capitalism in action? If market forces mean it makes monetary sense for those businesses then why shouldn't they be allowed to do it?

Is that even what we're discussing? Or is it more a case that people are happy to let them try but it's a bit silly?
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It's absolutely capitalism in action.

It's capitalism in action and the realisation that a lot of clubs will be left behind. Nobody wants to see their club left behind. Thats never been a reason for government intervention - if it was then we'd see far more done to target internet retailers and to protect the high st.
 
Northhiglander said:
What about when Liverpool have had 5 bad seasons fans stopping going to games and results are poor. Be like NFL, they will just up sticks and move that team to Dublin, or some other City. As soon as a team doesn't contribute to eh cash generating machine it will be moved, the franchise owner will have the say. Fans will count for nothing.
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And good riddance to them.
Not Liverpool in particular but any of the big 6 or humongous 12 or Andy McFazeans Funky Wee 5 piece band or whatever the fúck those hallions want to brand themselves this week.

If the money from Shanghai or Wall St is such an attraction them by all means, move, wife, flute and fixins to boot, as the old song says, to the amber smoggy skies of Beijing or the meth addled ghetto shooting ranges of Chicago.
I'll be happy to hold the door open for them. And plant a size ten into a club executive's fat hole on the way through too.

So long, and don't forget to not send postcards home.
 
Pentasa said:
If Clubs went to the Government for Furlough payments during the pandemic then I think it gives the Government every right to get involved in this, Say the Government don't get in involved and English Football collapses thats a lot of people out of work
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Just said the same watching the statement on the parliament channel, these clubs will have claimed a fair bit of money off the government over the last year.
 
DavieM said:
Been confirmed by Uefa - players from these 12 clubs will not be eligible to play in the Euros or World Cup.

The amount of damage the owners of these 12 clubs have done to the only thing they actually value the BRAND NAME is now possibly irreparable moving forward.
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The share price has went up. That all they care about
 
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