Scarlett
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been shared before but I thought it was interesting!
[/URL]
[/URL]
Fascinating Article on Liverpool and their Analysts - NY Times
- Thread starter Scarlett
- Start date
AnglianBear
Well-Known Member
Wonder how much Gerrard is ITK about their systems
Sutton_Blows_goats
Well-Known Member
Very basebally stuff, under Hendry the Red Sox have had real success and are bought into the whole analytics driven stuff.
it wont guarantee success but if you have the right people in place it can help supplement information, It’s all down to how and who uses it though
it wont guarantee success but if you have the right people in place it can help supplement information, It’s all down to how and who uses it though
Sutton_Blows_goats
Well-Known Member
Btw that article explains the background and calibre of the lead analyist, it’s not just some speccy virgin from twitter many of these guys are mega boffin Astro physicist types who write algorithms and formalise how to best extract accurate data from stats. Not just get an export from opta into a spreadsheet and make a graph in excel.
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I read that we now have the biggest analysis dept in Scotland. Would love to know how we are using it now.
I thought the analysts would be coaches, the fact they are scientists and mathematicians fascinates me. Would love to know more about how they create and process the information.
The most important guy in your analytics dept isn’t the analyst, it’s the guy who can convince the boss that analytics are worth using.
There is nothing like as many people who can do that as you think there are.
Lots of teams have analytics depts, the difference is the really good teams actually use them.
There is nothing like as many people who can do that as you think there are.
Lots of teams have analytics depts, the difference is the really good teams actually use them.
BL11
Well-Known Member
Fantastic article. Thanks for sharing.
Hap Hapablap
Well-Known Member
A few years ago I would have sided more with the comments attributed to Sam Allardyce and Craig Burley in that article. If Liverpool are being seen as the case in point here then of course the use of stats and analytics can be seen as successful. The purchases of Coutinho and Salah being used as evidence.
However it's also true that the game of football is a hell of a lot different to baseball and NFL.
If Dortmund have 30 shots at goal and lose 0-2 to a team who have 5 then that's a combination of bad luck, poor finishing and probably an opposing goalkeeper having an outstanding match.
See the recent SLCF as example.
However it's also true that the game of football is a hell of a lot different to baseball and NFL.
If Dortmund have 30 shots at goal and lose 0-2 to a team who have 5 then that's a combination of bad luck, poor finishing and probably an opposing goalkeeper having an outstanding match.
See the recent SLCF as example.
But that’s one of the advantages of analytics - you recognise that you lost because of bad luck and don’t make unnecessary changes that have a detrimental impact on a team that is actually playing well.
I read a study only yesterday that shows that managers average more starting line up changes when they are unlucky and lose the match (2.5), than when they are actually bad but somehow win (1.5). Chelsea recently are a good example of that. That’s a major inefficiency - you’re fixing something that isn’t broken because you were unlucky.
bluetonic
Well-Known Member
That was great and a really interesting read, looks like its paying off for Liverpool this year.
Would love to get involved in this stuff but crap at maths
yosser hughes
Well-Known Member
get yourself in there mate ,its as easy as 1,2,4
Fascinating read. It obviously works, as you can track Liverpools resurgence from when they started using the data. They bought Coutinho as he showed up well and then sold him to buy Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho with the profit.
Not surprising to read in the article that Craig Burley is not a fan ;-)
Not surprising to read in the article that Craig Burley is not a fan ;-)
Teuchterblue
Well-Known Member
I havent read the link yet. It's the easiet thing in the world to employ someone who calls themself an analysist. As in most walks of life most analysts will be of the mediocre variety. It's employing the right one and also the right datathingummy. Those will be worth their weight in gold.
The Crimson King
Well-Known Member
Really interesting stuff, and why I'm glad the manager recognised the performance after the LCF and stuck with the team. Heartbreaking as it was on that occassion, if we play that game 10 times with that performance we win 9 of them, it was just shit we ended up with the 1 we don't. But if you listened to the reactionaries on here we'd have changed everything up and be worse off for it.
bluetonic
Well-Known Member
I guess all the data is there for everyone to see its what you do with it what matters
Sheik Ma Shammy
Well-Known Member
Also helps they can spend an absolute fortune on players a key bit of data that.
Coza
Well-Known Member
When we had a post about what relatively weird out of the box ways we could bridge the gap on them this was my preference. To go as far of a data team in the heavens with a top down view of the game.
I remember Advocaat used to have someone sit with a pitch diagram and track where the ball went to see trends. I’m guessing a computer with colour coding for say blue goal, red chance etc could automatically do that and have the data for the coaching staff at HT.
I remember Advocaat used to have someone sit with a pitch diagram and track where the ball went to see trends. I’m guessing a computer with colour coding for say blue goal, red chance etc could automatically do that and have the data for the coaching staff at HT.
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
They've spent an awful lot less than most at that level, though. That's sort of the point. They have used the analysis to buy wisely and made huge profits.
Whats that team worth now? Compared to what they cost....
Ek_blue
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Craig is secretly trying to get his teeth into it.
brain
Well-Known Member
Nonsense, their net spend over the past 5 years is lower than the majority of other EPL clubs. In a net spend table they would be about 15th I think.
Adamski2010
Active Member
I, too, find the application of sports statistical data interesting, Moneyball et al.
Cue a quick google search to learn more about Ian Graham.
www.sixcrazyminutes.com
Admittedly 7-8 years ago and the system was in its infancy, but it would appear some punters were unconvinced of this approach...!
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Cue a quick google search to learn more about Ian Graham.
A PhD in what?
Meanwhile, Liverpool's owners, the Fenway Sports Group, are keeping to their data-based Moneyball philosophies by appointing Ian Graham, who has a PhD...
www.sixcrazyminutes.com
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
Oooft! Some replies!I, too, find the application of sports statistical data interesting, Moneyball et al.
Cue a quick google search to learn more about Ian Graham.
Admittedly 7-8 years ago and the system was in its infancy, but it would appear some punters were unconvinced of this approach...!A PhD in what?
Meanwhile, Liverpool's owners, the Fenway Sports Group, are keeping to their data-based Moneyball philosophies by appointing Ian Graham, who has a PhD...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Sheik Ma Shammy
Well-Known Member
Would be good if we all had that net spend let's face it money spent is the difference at clubs on the whole not stats.
Also it depends who spends the money as well.
usbear
Well-Known Member
BelfastRanger
Well-Known Member
Can't analyse heart and spirit and the metaphysical aspects of a human being. They have a role but can't completely depend upon them as they've have a tendency to treat players as robots rather than flesh and bone and spirit.
As Cus D said - I feed a spark it becomes a flame. I feed a flame it becomes a fire. I feed a fire it becomes a roaring blaze! -)
As Cus D said - I feed a spark it becomes a flame. I feed a flame it becomes a fire. I feed a fire it becomes a roaring blaze! -)
brain
Well-Known Member
Stats are key to spending money well though. Ask Ross Wilson.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Brilliant article. Speaks volumes about how football has changed over the years from being a coaches game, teaching players how to play and getting out on the pitch and doing it, to mathematics, analytics, stats and numbers, hiring physicians and scientists just to get a small advantage. It’s crazy how’s its all changed over the years. It’s no good being just a great team or a good player, you need to know the scientific formula on how to play the game or even win a match!
