Gerrard since joining Villa

bigy

Well-Known Member
Look at the Premiership and think for a second:

Manchester City and Liverpool are way out in front of everyone, and Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd are spending loads to close the gap.

You then have Newcastle backed by the Saudis.

So that’s seven teams starting this season with a massive advantage.

Villa aren’t going to finish in the top 6 overnight - certainly not consistently. They need to build up.

8th this season would be a really decent season. Anything more a bonus.

Gerrard didn’t turn us around overnight. He bought time with our Europa League runs, but domestically it took time.

He needs that time at Villa - and being honest he probably needs a good cup run or two thrown in to give fans that patience.
 

cloodie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
From reading the Villa forums when he went down there a lot of them seen him as a massive gamble and basically looked on him as being new to management. So many of them discounted everything he'd done with us. It's typical EPL arrogance. In a sense I wanted him to succeed as it would reflect better on us. If he fails then it just proves their stereotypes about our league and how easy it is to win (apparently)
 

Thewandofpedro

Well-Known Member
From reading the Villa forums when he went down there a lot of them seen him as a massive gamble and basically looked on him as being new to management. So many of them discounted everything he'd done with us. It's typical EPL arrogance. In a sense I wanted him to succeed as it would reflect better on us. If he fails then it just proves their stereotypes about our league and how easy it is to win (apparently)

I’d agree with this and it’s a point a lot don’t see.

If Gerrard does well then that helps us attract a better calibre of manager as they’ll know they’ll likely get a chance in the EPL if they succeed with us.
 

cloodie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I’d agree with this and it’s a point a lot don’t see.

If Gerrard does well then that helps us attract a better calibre of manager as they’ll know they’ll likely get a chance in the EPL if they succeed with us.
It's the same with our players. I had a look at some English forums when some of our players were linked with teams down there. They're delusional. Villa were linked with Bassey and their fans were discussing how he'd be a decent back up for left back. Again as he'd only played in the 'farmers league' apparently. Mental. Even Southampton supporters were skeptical about signing Aribo until they'd actually seen him playing for him and then they were raving how he could turn out to be the steal of the season.
I post on another non football forum that has a sub forum discussing the EPL. I never tire of sticking the boot in about the shite atmosphere etc in the 'tourist league' compared to up here, as well as various other digs when I can get them in :p
 

Bluenose1979

Well-Known Member
It's the same with our players. I had a look at some English forums when some of our players were linked with teams down there. They're delusional. Villa were linked with Bassey and their fans were discussing how he'd be a decent back up for left back. Again as he'd only played in the 'farmers league' apparently. Mental. Even Southampton supporters were skeptical about signing Aribo until they'd actually seen him playing for him and then they were raving how he could turn out to be the steal of the season.
I post on another non football forum that has a sub forum discussing the EPL. I never tire of sticking the boot in about the shite atmosphere etc in the 'tourist league' compared to up here, as well as various other digs when I can get them in :p
The difference with the players above (that is overlooked by the EPL fans) is that they were performing in the EL as well and delivering.

It surprises me that we haven't had many big money bids for Alfie or Tav given their form at European level is genuinely superb, but if you were a supporter from a league elsewhere and all they had done was domestic in Scotland, you could be forgiven for thinking it didn't prove a great deal quite honestly.

As for SG. He did a fine job with us, but I'd caveat it with the fact he inherited us in a position where we were grossly underperforming anyway and a decent manager should have been able to get us up and at least on the mhanks tails again. Added to that, they stood still largely and were guilty of complacency big time, only getting caught out in the 55 season when they had an unbelievable clusterfck of a collapse and TLRB did what he does under pressure and threw petrol on the fire.

SG/Rangers capitalised on it and had a brilliant league campaign, but out of his entire stint with us, the spread of trophy success wasn't good and we had more than one utter capitulation from a position of strength, not to mention abject failure in cup competitions.

As much as emotionally 55 was undoubtedly the most important achievement for us, SG's best point of reference for his time with us was the growth in Europe. That was where he and his team actually showed consistent growth for me and laid the best foundations for Gio to pick up and build on.

All that said, I still think he's miles off having done anything that makes him a serious contender to replace Klopp with Liverpool where they are and their current competitive expectations. They may have an emotional connection with him, but he has nowhere near the record or evidence in management that he can take them forward at that level yet.
 
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cloodie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The difference with the players above (that is overlooked by the EPL fans) is that they were performing in the EL as well and delivering.

It surprises me that we haven't had many big money bids for Alfie or Tav given their form at European level is genuinely superb, but if you were a supporter from a league elsewhere and all they had done was domestic in Scotland, you could be forgiven for thinking it didn't prove a great deal quite honestly.

As for SG. He did a fine job with us, but I'd caveat it with the fact he inherited us in a position where we were grossly underperforming anyway and a decent manager should have been able to get us up and at least on the mhanks tails again. Added to that, they stood still largely and were guilty of complacency big time, only getting caught out in the 55 season when they had an unbelievable clusterfck of a collapse and TLRB did what he does under pressure and threw petrol on the fire.

SG/Rangers capitalised on it and had a brilliant league campaign, but out of his entire stint with us, the spread of trophy success wasn't good and we had more than one utter capitulation from a position of strength, not to mention abject failure in cup competitions.

As much as emotionally 55 was undoubtedly the most important achievement for us, SG's best point of reference for his time with us was the growth in Europe. That was where he and his team actually showed consistent growth for me and laid the best foundations for Gio to pick up and build on.

All that said, I still think he's miles off having done anything that makes him a serious contender to replace Klopp with Liverpool where they are and their current competitive expectations. they may have an emoitonal connection with him, but he has nowhere near the record or evidence in management that he can take them forward at that level yet.
They arrogantly discount the Europa as well. They seem to view it as beneath them, even teams who aren't able to qualify for the thing. Some of the arrogance is off the scale, totally discounting the Bundesliga and various other leagues as well. I mean I can understand their views on the SPL to an extent but they're so insular.
 

cloodie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
BBC have an article on Gerrard and Lampard. Gerrard's points per game is better than Lampard (1.25 v 1.05) and the goal difference is pretty different.

ed34a76b911cdf4482a85ab92c4236e0.png
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
From reading the Villa forums when he went down there a lot of them seen him as a massive gamble and basically looked on him as being new to management. So many of them discounted everything he'd done with us. It's typical EPL arrogance. In a sense I wanted him to succeed as it would reflect better on us. If he fails then it just proves their stereotypes about our league and how easy it is to win (apparently)
Do you blame when we have hundreds of Rangers on here calling Scotland a footballing backwater?
 

TQ3

Well-Known Member
I liked Gerrard at Rangers, I will be thankful to him for winning us 55 but I always hate when players or managers think they are going on to bigger and better clubs when they leave. I get the EPL is a pull and Gerrard's endgame has always been Liverpool but for me and maybe its just because I am biased there will be no other club that has everything that Rangers has.
I think Beale realised once he was at Villa that Stevie had took him down the wrong road, and so it was time for Mick to make his own decisions!
I suspect Stevie misses the intensity of Rangers already. He may be home an hour early, but he isn’t worrying about getting bumped or baying mobs if he loses 3 on the trot. There is no pressure at Villa.
 

renfrewger

Well-Known Member
The difference with the players above (that is overlooked by the EPL fans) is that they were performing in the EL as well and delivering.

It surprises me that we haven't had many big money bids for Alfie or Tav given their form at European level is genuinely superb, but if you were a supporter from a league elsewhere and all they had done was domestic in Scotland, you could be forgiven for thinking it didn't prove a great deal quite honestly.

As for SG. He did a fine job with us, but I'd caveat it with the fact he inherited us in a position where we were grossly underperforming anyway and a decent manager should have been able to get us up and at least on the mhanks tails again. Added to that, they stood still largely and were guilty of complacency big time, only getting caught out in the 55 season when they had an unbelievable clusterfck of a collapse and TLRB did what he does under pressure and threw petrol on the fire.

SG/Rangers capitalised on it and had a brilliant league campaign, but out of his entire stint with us, the spread of trophy success wasn't good and we had more than one utter capitulation from a position of strength, not to mention abject failure in cup competitions.

As much as emotionally 55 was undoubtedly the most important achievement for us, SG's best point of reference for his time with us was the growth in Europe. That was where he and his team actually showed consistent growth for me and laid the best foundations for Gio to pick up and build on.

All that said, I still think he's miles off having done anything that makes him a serious contender to replace Klopp with Liverpool where they are and their current competitive expectations. They may have an emotional connection with him, but he has nowhere near the record or evidence in management that he can take them forward at that level yet.
I understand their point of view as the average standard of our league is really low, without Rangers and Celtic then it would probably be bottom half of League 1 standard. I'd actually say both Rangers and Celtic would easily hold their own in the premier league, so it's an extremely strange league we have here in terms of the disparity. English fans perspective is based on the league as a whole though, so they do have a point

The one issue I think they have is understanding just how difficult it actually is to win a title, they see it as a coin flip when it really isn't. The amount of work, perseverance, belief, confidence, tactical capabilities, planning, etc which goes into Rangers beating Celtic or vice versa is monumental and always has been. In England most teams can faff about without much pressure on them, they can do little experiments and such as there isn't much on the line. At Rangers or Celtic you have to perform all the time in all competitions. It's a far higher bar which each team needs to meet compared to an Aston Villa or Everton or Crystal Palace. It's one of the reasons why I think Aribo will do extremely well down there, as would Bassey have if he joined, if Kent joined Leeds the would have been raving about him. The standards at Rangers/Celtic are just so much higher. It's also why I think when Rodgers went down to Leicester he did so well at first as his standards were so high, but I think eventually the Premier League drags down managers and players to becoming lazy and wasting a lot of their potential as nothing is really demanded of them fundamentally as it is up here

Anyway I think Gerrard may find it hard there as he's lost Beale and the lazy player mindsets really wouldn't gel with his style of management I think. If he gets 2-3 years he will surprise a lot (top 10 finish), but there's no way he will be able to fulfil his potential at a place like Aston Villa
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
I think Beale realised once he was at Villa that Stevie had took him down the wrong road, and so it was time for Mick to make his own decisions!
I suspect Stevie misses the intensity of Rangers already. He may be home an hour early, but he isn’t worrying about getting bumped or baying mobs if he loses 3 on the trot. There is no pressure at Villa.
That's nonsense. There's pressure in every big football job.
 

WATP_74

Well-Known Member
I think Beale realised once he was at Villa that Stevie had took him down the wrong road, and so it was time for Mick to make his own decisions!
I suspect Stevie misses the intensity of Rangers already. He may be home an hour early, but he isn’t worrying about getting bumped or baying mobs if he loses 3 on the trot. There is no pressure at Villa.
The whole of England is debating his decision to drop Mings, especially after the performance and loss to Bournemouth, so he’s under immense scrutiny and pressure.
 

TQ3

Well-Known Member
That's nonsense. There's pressure in every big football job.
The whole of England is debating his decision to drop Mings, especially after the performance and loss to Bournemouth, so he’s under immense scrutiny and pressure.
I meant pressure to win. He is getting scrutinised over dropping England’s centre half Mings, but they aren’t saying he is on a shoogly peg because he got turned over by a newly promoted club.
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
I meant pressure to win. He is getting scrutinised over dropping England’s centre half Mings, but they aren’t saying he is on a shoogly peg because he got turned over by a newly promoted club.
Of course he's under pressure to win, same as every other manager. It's just that some are under more pressure than others.
 

stoogie

Well-Known Member
I said at the time left that he’d settled for no-pressure mediocrity. I thank him for 55, but it’s time to let go.
They are mediocre right enough but they want to not be mediocre and he is under a lot of pressure to make it happen. The signs arent good and itll only end one way if it doesnt improve.
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
I’d agree with this and it’s a point a lot don’t see.

If Gerrard does well then that helps us attract a better calibre of manager as they’ll know they’ll likely get a chance in the EPL if they succeed with us.
He was always going to the EPL but when you think of the limited revenue he had at Rangers,that makes it all the more remarkable the heights he took us to in Europe and let's be honest that's where they'll have taken notice of him and not this tinpot league. You'd imagine that his budget would be bigger at Villa,given the revenue Clubs enjoy down there so it will be a failure if he can't get Villa top half of the league,given his budget.
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
He was always going to the EPL but when you think of the limited revenue he had at Rangers,that makes it all the more remarkable the heights he took us to in Europe and let's be honest that's where they'll have taken notice of him and not this tinpot league. You'd imagine that his budget would be bigger at Villa,given the revenue Clubs enjoy down there so it will be a failure if he can't get Villa top half of the league,given his budget.
The thing is most clubs have very good budgets in the EPL so to even getting the top half of the EPL is not easy.
If he brings in players with the right mentality and then gets rid of the players who are happy in the position they are in and are just coasting he can do it but he will need time, not sure he will get that.
 

Victor Chaos

Well-Known Member
I’d agree with this and it’s a point a lot don’t see.

If Gerrard does well then that helps us attract a better calibre of manager as they’ll know they’ll likely get a chance in the EPL if they succeed with us.
And if not its Bolton Wanderers or New York looking where other SPFL winning managers with no EPL experience have gone
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
The thing is most clubs have very good budgets in the EPL so to even getting the top half of the EPL is not easy.
If he brings in players with the right mentality and then gets rid of the players who are happy in the position they are in and are just coasting he can do it but he will need time, not sure he will get that.
It'll be tougher for him without Beale there,who I hope does well also.
 

blue genes

Well-Known Member
The difference with the players above (that is overlooked by the EPL fans) is that they were performing in the EL as well and delivering.

It surprises me that we haven't had many big money bids for Alfie or Tav given their form at European level is genuinely superb, but if you were a supporter from a league elsewhere and all they had done was domestic in Scotland, you could be forgiven for thinking it didn't prove a great deal quite honestly.

As for SG. He did a fine job with us, but I'd caveat it with the fact he inherited us in a position where we were grossly underperforming anyway and a decent manager should have been able to get us up and at least on the mhanks tails again. Added to that, they stood still largely and were guilty of complacency big time, only getting caught out in the 55 season when they had an unbelievable clusterfck of a collapse and TLRB did what he does under pressure and threw petrol on the fire.

SG/Rangers capitalised on it and had a brilliant league campaign, but out of his entire stint with us, the spread of trophy success wasn't good and we had more than one utter capitulation from a position of strength, not to mention abject failure in cup competitions.

As much as emotionally 55 was undoubtedly the most important achievement for us, SG's best point of reference for his time with us was the growth in Europe. That was where he and his team actually showed consistent growth for me and laid the best foundations for Gio to pick up and build on.

All that said, I still think he's miles off having done anything that makes him a serious contender to replace Klopp with Liverpool where they are and their current competitive expectations. They may have an emotional connection with him, but he has nowhere near the record or evidence in management that he can take them forward at that level yet.
Agree he should have done much better in the cups, however irrespective of them imploding, we had a tremendous league campaign for 55 - brilliant.

Sometimes I honestly think Gerrard's efforts in Europe are dismissed all too easily - from where we were to beating the likes of Porto was an absolutely sensational transformation, especially on a relative small spend.

And let's not forget - that was Gerrard's players & team that started in the Europa League final - no-one else's - he should get enormous credit for that.

I realise that many will say GVB got us there, and we'll never know if Gerrard would have done it, but still, the starting 11 was Gerrard's.
 

thefortytwa

Well-Known Member
A few poor results at home and early cup exits the pressure will be on , as much as some have said there's no pressure on him there im sure the men in the boardroom dont share that sentiment watching millions of cash being spent for little tangible return.
 

Kylegib

Well-Known Member
Agree he should have done much better in the cups, however irrespective of them imploding, we had a tremendous league campaign for 55 - brilliant.

Sometimes I honestly think Gerrard's efforts in Europe are dismissed all too easily - from where we were to beating the likes of Porto was an absolutely sensational transformation, especially on a relative small spend.

And let's not forget - that was Gerrard's players & team that started in the Europa League final - no-one else's - he should get enormous credit for that.

I realise that many will say GVB got us there, and we'll never know if Gerrard would have done it, but still, the starting 11 was Gerrard's.
We are also making huge profits on player's from his team largely due to their performances in Europe.
 

Dbbear

Well-Known Member
The whole of England is debating his decision to drop Mings, especially after the performance and loss to Bournemouth, so he’s under immense scrutiny and pressure.
Was Mings not playing quite poorly and few error probes games? I don’t understand why it’s so big that he dropped him. In the highlights I watched he didn’t look fairly average which is maybe par for the course after he was elavated to England squad after a few good games and others being off form or injured.

To someone else’s other point of why English don’t rate here, it’s baffling when it comes to players as we’ve seen a fair few players move south and excel. Indeed look at McGinn I don’t think even hibs fans would’ve said he’d be a main stay and club captain at an EPL club when he left.

For Gerrard I’m not sure if he’ll succeed there as I’m seeing more of the 2nd half season performances (that we seen in the 1st 2 seasons here) and attitude from Villa than I am season 55 so far.
 

AnglianBear

Well-Known Member
BBC have an article on Gerrard and Lampard. Gerrard's points per game is better than Lampard (1.25 v 1.05) and the goal difference is pretty different.

ed34a76b911cdf4482a85ab92c4236e0.png
Comparing managing Villa with managing Chelsea and all their billions, bit like comparing Gio at Rangers with Jack Ross.
 

Neilston Unionist

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t have been surprised has he walked or been pushed after that defeat.

He looked totally done on the sidelines to be fair.
I heard at the time he offered to resign and the board declined it. Not saying it’s absolute fact, but I think it is believable enough and a major reason why the board were pissed off with him when the sulking about lack of funds started after Malmo as the board had given him plenty of emotional and financial support up until that point. He did win the League and maybe deserved a bit more financial backing but the Club had been taking heavy losses for multiple years and that was exacerbated the COVID season despite the on field success because of no gates and Gerrard was definitely backed to the highest extent our board could afford in the seasons leading up to that.
 

WATP_74

Well-Known Member
I meant pressure to win. He is getting scrutinised over dropping England’s centre half Mings, but they aren’t saying he is on a shoogly peg because he got turned over by a newly promoted club.
Of course he is. If he won his decision to drop Mings would have been vindicated.
It’s all about winning, especially against teams he’s expected to beat like Bournemouth.
 

WATP_74

Well-Known Member
Was Mings not playing quite poorly and few error probes games? I don’t understand why it’s so big that he dropped him. In the highlights I watched he didn’t look fairly average which is maybe par for the course after he was elavated to England squad after a few good games and others being off form or injured.

To someone else’s other point of why English don’t rate here, it’s baffling when it comes to players as we’ve seen a fair few players move south and excel. Indeed look at McGinn I don’t think even hibs fans would’ve said he’d be a main stay and club captain at an EPL club when he left.

For Gerrard I’m not sure if he’ll succeed there as I’m seeing more of the 2nd half season performances (that we seen in the 1st 2 seasons here) and attitude from Villa than I am season 55 so far.
The Villa support really like Mings and he’s respected in the dressing room.
Bournemouth’s second goal was a free header for Moore, which Mings (6ft 5) would have probably stopped.
Gerrard’s decision to drop him has backfired so far.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
They were discussing him v Lampard as managers on the Totally Football Show and everyone agreed that Gerrard was a better manager than Lampard.
 
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