Home Form vs Away Form - What's the Problem?

ca100

ca100

Well-Known Member
As per title, we just seem a different team away from home compared to when we are at Ibrox. Don't move the ball as well or as quickly, and don't seem to impose ourselves on the game. Why is this? Is it a mentality/confidence thing, or a system problem? If we don't get it sorted quickly it could be another long season.
 
A lot of new players still realising that we are every single team in Scotland’s cup final.

There’s also a concerning dependency on a Steven Gerrard half time rocket. Our lack of performance in the first half of so many games so far this year needs canned, and quickly.
 
Fact is away from home we struggle vs long ball physical teams who just lump it in the box. Set pieces we need to do better and get tougher during when a team is trying to bombard us with high balls and lots of big attackers in the box.

At home these teams dont commit as much forward so lumping it in the box for them is easier for us to defend when they commit less big lumps in the box.
 
We shite it when taken out our comfort zone. We still don't have an on-field leader who will drag a performance out of us. This manager has given these players too much respect.
 
ICA_86 said:
A lot of new players still realising that we are every single team in Scotland’s cup final.

There’s also a concerning dependency on a Steven Gerrard half time rocket. Our lack of performance in the first half of so many games so far this year needs canned, and quickly.
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We seem to start every game at a snail's pace giving the opposition time to bed in and gain confidence. Ten minutes of passing the ball from side to side in our own half. Are we supposed to be sussing out the opposition or probing for openings? Whatever it is its not a good approach.
 
Monty_greenock34 said:
Fact is away from home we struggle vs long ball physical teams who just lump it in the box. Set pieces we need to do better and get tougher during when a team is trying to bombard us with high balls and lots of big attackers in the box.

At home these teams dont commit as much forward so lumping it in the box for them is easier for us to defend when they commit less big lumps in the box.
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Whilst that is true, that only explains the defensive aspect. We created almost nothing yesterday, only real chance I can think is when Kent put Morelos through in the 2nd half. Created nothing against Celtic, and barely got out our own half in the Motherwell 2nd half.
 
We focus too much on the opposition and not us.

Footballs a wonderful thing though, last year we were generally okay away from home, but at Ibrox we were dreadful...
 
Aberdeen we played really well despite being unfairly handicapped by the Morelos sending off.

Motherwell the change of system against a very aggressive and motivated team caused major uncertainty and led to a slipshod performance.

Filth, we were off the back of an arduous away trip where our 9 men played out of their skin to quality for the EL. The hangover and SG’s desire not to start with a hammering v them saw a very tepid performance.

Yesterday another unnecessary change to the defensive unit against another very physical and motivated side did us no favours on a pitch where other top 6 sides will fall victim to Livi’s incredible work rate and organisation...For me by sticking Worral in for Katic the manager underestimated Livi and we paid for it, also Morelos and Lafferty aint working as a front two, they were insipid to the point of being easily contained.

It’s a learning and togetherness process with an almost entirely scratch squad 17 games and 2 defeats leading to European football and a cup semi isn’t too shoddy under those circumstances...But the manager must stop tinkering with the spine of the team unless we are playing vastly inferior opponents (in the Scottish Cup perhaps) or there is an injury, continuity is king.
 
ca100 said:
Is there such a thing then? Motherwell and Livingston are games we should be winning.
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We should be winning them, absolutely. But I can't remember the last time Fir Park was an easy place for us to go, especially with the animals that currently play for them and I don't think any team will find Livi at home easy on that pitch. That doesn't excuse our poor performances but if we start going away to Hamilton or Dundee and struggle then I'll really start to panic. At the moment I'm concerned but there's still plenty of time for it to be rectified.
 
ca100 said:
Whilst that is true, that only explains the defensive aspect. We created almost nothing yesterday, only real chance I can think is when Kent put Morelos through in the 2nd half. Created nothing against Celtic, and barely got out our own half in the Motherwell 2nd half.
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Reshuffling wrongly i think. Aberdeen we played well. Motherwell we reshuffled and got done. Yesterday we reshuffled and got done. Playing morelos and lafferty at same time doesnt work imo. We also give teams too much respect. Maby in other countries you give teams with a higher league position more respect but not here, its livingston for goodness sakes. The players need to drum it in their heads that its us thats to be respected not the opponents of our league. Fast in your face and moving ball around with pace is where we are best. Never saw that and maby pitch had a little bit of blame there but we didnt look as if we were even trying to go at pace and move ball around like we normally do.
 
Monty_greenock34 said:
Reshuffling wrongly i think. Aberdeen we played well. Motherwell we reshuffled and got done. Yesterday we reshuffled and got done. Playing morelos and lafferty at same time doesnt work imo. We also give teams too much respect. Maby in other countries you give teams with a higher league position more respect but not here, its livingston for goodness sakes. The players need to drum it in their heads that its us thats to be respected not the opponents of our league. Fast in your face and moving ball around with pace is where we are best. Never saw that and maby pitch had a little bit of blame there but we didnt look as if we were even trying to go at pace and move ball around like we normally do.
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I'd definitely agree on Lafferty and Morelos playing together - needs to be one ore the other with the two wingers. Our best performances this season have come when playing this way (and our worst have come when playing the two of them together).
 
Away we need to be more direct and solid. At Ibrox teams sit in and we can play. Away the majority are hammer throwers and we need to be the same. Direct high pressing with pace, don’t give any team time on the ball. We may have concentrated so much on home form at the price of away. We need to up the away form to that of home, but we can’t expect to play our home style away. Too many battles lost yesterday, these players need to get up for the battles fast.
 
It should be Morelos OR Lafferty starting. Maybe both when the game is won but playing the 2 loses us a creative or wide player. The build up was slow which is possibly down to lack of movement from the afforementioned.
 
We’ve also played five tough away games in Europe without defeat and beaten Kilmarnock at Rugby Park on League Cup duty so it’s really not as binary a problem as folk are making out.

Yesterday was just a horror show all round.

You get games like that, and with a new squad still finding its feet and fighting on three different fronts, it was always going to happen at some point, IMO.

I’m tempted to just put it down to the proverbial bad day at the office, although there’s a genuine concern about not quite matching the cup final level commitment of domestic opponents on league business, but next weekend is the crunch.

Even this early on in the season it’s a must win game for us.
 
Anytime we've played our strongest formation away from home, 4-3-3 with 2 natural wide men, we've actually performed very well.

Yesterday and the piggery we shoehorned Lafferty in wide left in preference to Kent, Middleton or Grezda who are far more comfortable and influential in that position.

At Fir Park we went 3 at the back with Morelos and Lafferty up front together.

Any other away game we've went with our usual set up and it's worked very well.

I reckon the gaffer will have sussed that now after yesterday.
 
omegaman said:
We’ve also played five tough away games in Europe without defeat and beaten Kilmarnock at Rugby Park on League Cup duty so it’s really not as binary a problem as folk are making out.

Yesterday was just a horror show all round.

You get games like that, and with a new squad still finding its feet and fighting on three different fronts, it was always going to happen at some point, IMO.

I’m tempted to just put it down to the proverbial bad day at the office, although there’s a genuine concern about not quite matching the cup final level commitment of domestic opponents on league business, but next weekend is the crunch.

Even this early on in the season it’s a must win game for us.
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I see what you're saying but that's three away games in a row where we have struggled to impose ourselves on the opposition, which is almost more of a concern than the results themselves.
 
First of all I hate those plastic pitches, the sooner they are gone the better. The bounce of a rugby ball is more predictable and they are an unfair advantage for the home team.
I agree with those who blame the reshuffling of the team. Whilst literally I'm sure it's an exaggeration to say we've barely seen the same team/formation twice, it often seems that way. Why, yet again, did we have to change it completely away from home, especially to Livingston?
Does the management teams thinking genuinely comprise the words 'we're playing really well at Ibrox so we'd better change it completely when we are away'
Once was an experiment, twice was a reasonable retest with 11 players on the park. Third time was baffling and the fourth against side that should already be thinking about the consequences of relegation was just daft.
I'm not going to dwell on it though, there are more than 7 months to go and thats a long time in Scottish football.
 
We need to be far more aggressive away from home and start to learn that we can't go into these games playing at 60-70% hoping to grind out a win every game must be played at 100% intensity.

Motherwell are the prime example of the attitude most of the clubs in the SPFL have, they will play like their very existence depends on it against us then a few days later go out and get humped by a bottom 4 side.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
While not making any excuses I wouldn't say we've had anything approaching an "easy" away game so far.
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So Aberdeen, Celtic and Motherwell are hard away games. Livi too cos of the pitch. We'll need to add in Hamilton and Killie as well then because of their pitches.

Oh and hibs and hearts are also hard away games.

That leaves us with Dundee, st Johnstone and st mirren as the only games that aren't 'hard'.

Too many excuses for my liking. We need to start winning away from home to have any chance of even coming second, never mind winning the league.
 
I agree with the sentiments in here. A bit too much tinkering it seems. 433 is the way to go. Not only has Lafferty & Morelos struggled playing together away from home, it meant that if both are struggling like yesterday then there's no real natural swap for them from the bench, so 1 needs to stay on the pitch.

We also seem to struggle physically, maybe we should be thinking about playing McCrorie in midfield to add a bit of physicality to the midfield, & to help defend set pieces.

Was disapointed to see Kent dropped yesterday, i think we missed a trick not starting him, with the form he's in & the pace / directness he offers.
 
Putting Worrall and Lafferty into the team at the expense of Katic and Halliday on these guys current form was a huge mistake against Livi imo, we knew they were going to lump the ball in all the time yet we leave out Katic, the only guy I've seen over 6 foot who will try to header a ball 6 inches off the ground and wins most of his headers and Halliday who has been fantastic recently in the midfield, you play your best team in every game and to me leaving these 2 out were a huge mistake from Stevie and Gary.
 
Lafferty and Morelos have started in 3 of them and its left the side horribly unbalanced.

Left side of the park is non existant in an attacking sense when we play them both.
 
We need to find what works best and stick with it. We don't have the squad quality and depth for any major rotating. Its wierd that this season we are much better at home and go to pieces away...pretty much the reverse of how things were before.
 
Thasunke Witko said:
Putting Worrall and Lafferty into the team at the expense of Katic and Halliday on these guys current form was a huge mistake against Livi imo, we knew they were going to lump the ball in all the time yet we leave out Katic, the only guy I've seen over 6 foot who will try to header a ball 6 inches off the ground and wins most of his headers and Halliday who has been fantastic recently in the midfield, you play your best team in every game and to me leaving these 2 out were a huge mistake from Stevie and Gary.
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As I said on the Worrall thread, Katic said in Friday's presser that he suffers from extreme back pain after playing on artificial surfaces.

Gerrard clearly didn't want him missing Thursday and next Sunday.

Unlikely we'll see Katic when playing on plastic mate.
 
People need to calm the fck down.


We are very obviously much improved and will get better. We are a new squad. I hear many say so are hearts. Some new squads hit the ground running? Some stutter, some are shambolic.

Weve had poor doemstic away results, and we appear to be bullied whilst at home its the opposite.

Itll happen. This isnt another false dawn, a disaster, a catastophe or a shambles. We were shite yesterday as sg set up wrong but massively, a majority of player shat themselves. They will quickly learn
 
The home games we've had have been against pish.

Next Sunday is our first big test in the league at Ibrox, its a huge game.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Anytime we've played our strongest formation away from home, 4-3-3 with 2 natural wide men, we've actually performed very well.

Yesterday and the piggery we shoehorned Lafferty in wide left in preference to Kent, Middleton or Grezda who are far more comfortable and influential in that position.

At Fir Park we went 3 at the back with Morelos and Lafferty up front together.

Any other away game we've went with our usual set up and it's worked very well.

I reckon the gaffer will have sussed that now after yesterday.
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I think Gerrard put too much faith in the players, MU. He expected, and was entitled to expect, them to reflect his own standards but when faced with adversity in the form of the pitch they let him down and shat the bed, again.
More than anything I hope he's sussed out the underlying mental weakness that needs eradicated.
You win nothing unless you're prepared to go out and give more than the other guy.
 
I think the main thing that most people are picking up on is the lack of aggression.

It could point to a change in captaincy. I love Tavernier, he’s the best fullback in Scotland all round in my opinion, but is he a captain? I’m not so sure.

Someone needs to be out there setting the tone for others.
 
Conversely we haven't had a 'hard game' at home yet so we're not quite 'amazing' at home....yet. We shall learn a lot on Sunday.
 
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ICA_86 said:
A lot of new players still realising that we are every single team in Scotland’s cup final.

There’s also a concerning dependency on a Steven Gerrard half time rocket. Our lack of performance in the first half of so many games so far this year needs canned, and quickly.
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These are two things that stand out to me.

If it’s the oppositions cup final then it’s ours too. We need to match the intensity for 90 minutes. I really believe if we match the desire of these teams then our superior ability will show through. The Motherwell game at Fir Park is an example. We started to play really well and dominate once we went 2-3 up then the second half we changed. Why?

As for the Stevie G rocket at HT, I do think it’s becoming an issue. You go back to the Wigan friendly and I thought then ‘aye ok that’s fine but why do you need it?’ It seems to be in some games the players really need HT to come, especially away from home.

I do wonder if Gerrard is trying to be too clever when it comes to away games instead of treating every game the same, especially in the League. A wee tweak here and there but we don’t need massive player and tactical changes against these teams in Scotland. We should play to our own strengths.
 
ca100 said:
I see what you're saying but that's three away games in a row where we have struggled to impose ourselves on the opposition, which is almost more of a concern than the results themselves.
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I’ve acknowledged that, but you’re also conveniently forgetting a superb draw in Villarreal in the middle of that sequence so we can evidently do the business away from home when required.

The problem for me is doing it consistently on all three fronts, and I’m not sure we have the strength in depth to do that regularly yet.

As ever people’s expectations were running away from them after three or four good results in a row.

In context we’re better than we were, but still have some way to go.

It’s the latter bit of that that people nod along to and say they understand, but then go ballistic at when it’s put into practice.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
While not making any excuses I wouldn't say we've had anything approaching an "easy" away game so far.
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Dundee, Hamilton and St. Mirren are the only away games I’d say are close to being “easy”. Everywhere else teams will hold their own. Livingston are on a good run and we should have had a better attitude and approach to the match yesterday.
 
Management team need to accept they picked the wrong players for the formation they want to play.

Surely they must see Lafferty and Morelos in a 4-3-3 doesn't work

Why no McCrorie, Halliday as a sitter in the midfield?

Our shape when we took off Coulibaly was all over the place

Kent, Middleton and Barisic were all down left wing and no support for Tav as Candeias was too narrow and even he was drifting to the left so we had no balance

Our home form is so much better and after dropping 27 points last season that had to be sorted. Its frustrating that the away form has dived.

When the team sit down and analyse the game again they will see the glaring errors. Also that pitch is a joke and definitely favours the home team as they are training on it every day and getting an advantage which isn't right.
 
Div1872 said:
Management team need to accept they picked the wrong players for the formation they want to play.

Surely they must see Lafferty and Morelos in a 4-3-3 doesn't work

Why no McCrorie, Halliday as a sitter in the midfield?

Our shape when we took off Coulibaly was all over the place

Kent, Middleton and Barisic were all down left wing and no support for Tav as Candeias was too narrow and even he was drifting to the left so we had no balance

Our home form is so much better and after dropping 27 points last season that had to be sorted. Its frustrating that the away form has dived.

When the team sit down and analyse the game again they will see the glaring errors. Also that pitch is a joke and definitely favours the home team as they are training on it every day and getting an advantage which isn't right.
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We have to earn the right to play.

I don’t specifically think we NEED a goalscorer in midfield, we have enough with Tav and Barisic from fullback, as well as the front three we play.

With that in mind, a midfield that just works hard and gets the ball back and moves it on to the creative players might be fine.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
While not making any excuses I wouldn't say we've had anything approaching an "easy" away game so far.
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We have not won an away game in the league since beating St Johnstone 4-1 on the 27th February.

That's a piss poor record for a team with title ambitions.
 
Needless tinkering with the side is a key problem.

Katic and Goldson are our best centre backs. Why aren’t they both playing in the league given that Katic is just off the back of a ‘rest’ and there’s an international break in a week’s time?

There is no consistency in the team selection and that filters through to the performances.

Don’t know whether it’s a function of Gerrard showing the opposition too much respect by trying to counteract them (that was certainly the case with Motherwell) but the constant changes need binned if we are to get any kind of consistency or momentum going.
 
complete opposite from last year weirdly, couldn't buy a home win last year but away form was best in the league. Each away game we play I feel like we could drop points if we dont go ahead yet at home I think we could beat anyone
 
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