International eligibility

AndySG

AndySG

Well-Known Member
What are your thoughts on the current eligibility rules for players not born in the country they can represent? A lot is made of the number of Welsh and Irish players over the years who are “just playing because they’re not good enough for England”. Believe the limit for family is grandparents but there’s also residency rules (which I don’t think any of the British countries take advantage of but other countries do) and now there’s the debate over players who have played for one country in a friendly but then switched to another (Declan Rice and potentially Harvey Barnes are current ones) but Diego Costa did it. Pretty sure Jason Cummings did too. Are the current rules fine? Should they be tighter? Looser?
 
I’m fine with those born in certain countries playing other national teams. I’m sure plenty of people were born elsewhere due to parents work, but Identify as their parents nationality.

I’d say grandparents is too far, and I’d also go back to locking players in after they’ve been capped at U21 level. Roofe (for example) deciding at 28 that he’s not getting an England call up, then playing for Jamaica - I don’t agree with.

Rice, Grealish, Cummings and whoever actually playing for two senior national teams is nonsense.

Residency ruling is also nonsense, but I could maybe understand the schooling rule. Someone who spent their formative, educational years here I would say is fair.

Ultimately, the current rulings just lead to players exploiting loopholes and taking a new identity to essentially gain more experience playing football.

I don’t particularly like that.
 
It's a difficult one to judge as nationality will mean something different to every player. Some will have a strong emotional tie to a country they weren't born in, maybe through family, and some (like Barnes, presumably) will see it as their best opportunity to play in a major tournament.

You have to draw the lines somewhere. I'd keep the grandparent clause and maybe tweak the residency rules to longer than 5 years, or align it to schooling or something. I think after you make an appearance, at any senior level, that should be it locked in.

Either way, you will upset some. I'd love to see someone tell Stuart McCall he wasn't Scottish to his face!
 
russelgw said:
Pretty sure Tav is eligible for Scotland now, why would you not consider him... oh wait..
Click to expand...

Not unless he has Scottish parents/grandparents. The British nations have an agreement in place to not use the residency rules.

EDIT - Doing some research on the rules and found this. I remember the case of David Johnson being a long running saga. Basically, he thought he was eligible to play for any home nation because he held a British passport, despite being born in Jamaica and having no UK born relations.

He pledged his allegiance to Scotland on the back of watching us demolish PSV at Ibrox, citing the passion of the fans as his reason, only to be kyboshed by a rule change a few years earlier.
 
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russelgw said:
Pretty sure Tav is eligible for Scotland now, why would you not consider him... oh wait..
Click to expand...
I want to say that the British countries have some sort of agreement that they won’t but no idea why. Otherwise you’d have to think that Tav, Goldson, Kent, Novo, Klos, Amo, etc. would have had a look in
 
On this topic

What's the current technical maximum number of nations available a player could technically choose from?

Like if his grandparents were from 4 different countries

Parents from 2 other countries

The players was born in a different country

But was raised in a different country for 15 years

Then went professional in a different country?

10 countries? Is that right?


What if all of his grandparents and parents had duel nationality as they themselves were raised in a different country to which they were born? Does that make it more complex?

There must be an answer to this
 
Not born in the Country, unless family are temporarily out of the country at the time, shouldn't be allowed to play.
Also, if you're a tim you shouldn't be allowed to play!
 
auldyin said:
www.theguardian.com

Cascarino never eligible for Irish

Tony Cascarino, who made a record 88 appearances for the Republic of Ireland, does not hold an Irish passport and has never been eligible to play for the country.
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
www.irishpost.com

Tony Cascarino hits back at Republic of Ireland goalkeeper Shay Given over Irishness comment | The Irish Post

Tony Cascarino has said he 'strongly resents' a comment about his Irishness made by Republic of Ireland goalkeeper Shay Given
www.irishpost.com www.irishpost.com
 
Unicorse said:
On this topic

What's the current technical maximum number of nations available a player could technically choose from?

Like if his grandparents were from 4 different countries

Parents from 2 other countries

The players was born in a different country

But was raised in a different country for 15 years

Then went professional in a different country?

10 countries? Is that right?


What if all of his grandparents and parents had duel nationality as they themselves were raised in a different country to which they were born? Does that make it more complex?

There must be an answer to this
Click to expand...
Haha, who knows? If you are born over international waters, can you just pick any?
 
AndySG said:
I want to say that the British countries have some sort of agreement that they won’t but no idea why. Otherwise you’d have to think that Tav, Goldson, Kent, Novo, Klos, Amo, etc. would have had a look in
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Because like in club football, there would be the very real danger that English money would buy the allegiance of every promising UK born player, effectively making them a ‘Team UK’, while the rest of us get the English cast offs they don’t want.
My only issue with the current rules is examples of players using one nation that they were born in yo develop, then jumping ship to another that they ‘feel’ part of (Duffy, Gibson, Sykes, McClean etc)
 
AndySG said:
I want to say that the British countries have some sort of agreement that they won’t but no idea why. Otherwise you’d have to think that Tav, Goldson, Kent, Novo, Klos, Amo, etc. would have had a look in
Click to expand...
It's definitely something Scotland and the other home nations should be pursuing. Probably impacts Scotland more as we get a higher quality of player playing in our league than Wales and NI. But loads of other countries are happy to call up players after meeting the residency criteria.

If it is 5 years then the likes of Goldson and Tavernier would be eligible to play for Scotland now.
 
Place of birth or Mother or Fathers national identity only.

This Grandparent birthplace should have no place for international consideration.
 
AndySG said:
What are your thoughts on the current eligibility rules for players not born in the country they can represent? A lot is made of the number of Welsh and Irish players over the years who are “just playing because they’re not good enough for England”. Believe the limit for family is grandparents but there’s also residency rules (which I don’t think any of the British countries take advantage of but other countries do) and now there’s the debate over players who have played for one country in a friendly but then switched to another (Declan Rice and potentially Harvey Barnes are current ones) but Diego Costa did it. Pretty sure Jason Cummings did too. Are the current rules fine? Should they be tighter? Looser?
Click to expand...
The UK is a complex one as in reality it’s the one country it should only be the 1 national team , and most other countries are not happy we get 4 teams , the only reason it wasn’t scrapped was because the home nations started international football before fifa was even a thing
 
You can play for a country if you have attended school there for 5 years, Jordan Rhodes qualified for Scotland through this. I think the grandparent rule should be scrapped, parents or birthplace or school attendance where you were brought up as a kid.
 
Should be country your born/raised in, and parents too, Grandparents is too far out, My kids if good enough will have Scotland and Northern Ireland to choose from
 
May not be the popular opinion, but I think it really should be the country in which you were born, and at a push maybe your parents home country, I would have been eligible to play for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland (would also say ROI, but would rather gouge my own eyes out then put that shirt on)
My father (from Greenock) made it very clear to my brothers and I growing up that we were not Scottish, and should be proud to be English, and my mother (from Portadown) was much the same.
 
I have precious little interest in international football, so I can't get too het up about it, but if a player is born in one of the top international football nations, but isn't quite good enough for them and has recent ancestry elsewhere, I'm quite happy for him to be available for selection for that country. Why deprive him the opportunity to play international football and if he improves that smaller nation, then he improves the competitiveness and quality of international competition. Sure it'll make granny and granda proud too!
 
CambridgeRanger said:
May not be the popular opinion, but I think it really should be the country in which you were born, and at a push maybe your parents home country, I would have been eligible to play for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland (would also say ROI, but would rather gouge my own eyes out then put that shirt on)
My father (from Greenock) made it very clear to my brothers and I growing up that we were not Scottish, and should be proud to be English, and my mother (from Portadown) was much the same.
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I don't get why people would doubt the credibility of a player playing for the country of his parents. My boy was born abroad, was educated abroad and was brought up British and a Rangers fan. Try telling him he shouldn't qualify to play for Scotland. And I know plenty others from UK stock born abroad and who were brought up as British Scots or Englishmen, and as patriotic, maybe more so than anyone born in the UK.
 
Unicorse said:
On this topic

What's the current technical maximum number of nations available a player could technically choose from?
…
10 countries? Is that right?
Click to expand...

I think it can be higher if you also allow for failed countries where I think the convention is to let you pick which of the fragmented states you’d go to (definitely was for Yugoslavia, they let them pick due to the nations tensions) so technically there’s a possibility of 4/5 more countries for each of those in play.

Not sure about dual nationality, but definitely some small countries have mutual recognition and are both part of a larger country and independent. Monaco/France and Andorra/France as well as Puerto Rico/USA and I’m guessing quite a few more.

I’d guess you could probably get to 30 in the right scenario.

Personally I’m at 6: Scotland, England, NI, RoI, France and the USA. Shame I was too crap to even make it at St Mirren :)
 
They could have a DNA world cup.

People take 23andMe DNA tests and play for the region most of their DNA is from.
 
You can even play competitive international football and switch these days.

In 2020 FIFA updated so that you can play no more than 3 competitive non-tournament games (qualifiers are OK) and as long as you were Under 21 when these three games took place, you can apply to switch nationalitites so long as you meet the usual qualifying criteria.
 
For me it should be the Country you were born in or a Country you were raised in through school age.

Your parents and grandparents shouldn’t be involved in it.
 
Complete nonsense to suggest a player shouldn't be able to represent a country even if they've lived there for a certain amount of time.
 
TGP said:
You can even play competitive international football and switch these days.

In 2020 FIFA updated so that you can play no more than 3 competitive non-tournament games (qualifiers are OK) and as long as you were Under 21 when these three games took place, you can apply to switch nationalitites so long as you meet the usual qualifying criteria.
Click to expand...
In football manager back in the day I would bring a player with other nationalities on just to secure him but playing in three qualifiers, missing out on a spot in the finals and then representing another team seems mental
 
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Avengers said:
You can play for a country if you have attended school there for 5 years, Jordan Rhodes qualified for Scotland through this. I think the grandparent rule should be scrapped, parents or birthplace or school attendance where you were brought up as a kid.
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not sure about that , didn't hearts have a prospect say 15 years ago that had all of his education in Scotland but couldn't be capped by Scotland only England

Andrew Driver but i think it has changed so my apologies
www.tribalfootball.com

SFA still keen on Hearts Driver representing Scotland - Tribal Football

Scottish Football Association chief executive Gordon Smith remains hopeful of persuading Hearts winger Andrew Driver to play for Scotland. The Hearts winger,
www.tribalfootball.com www.tribalfootball.com
 
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The Sasa Shuffle said:
So Terry Butcher should have played for Singapore rather than England? Gough for Sweden? Claudio Gentile for Libya?

Or in other sports, John McEnroe should have represented Germany rather than USA?
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Doesn’t it count as US soil if it’s a military base?
 
I think it should be the Country you are born in, although you would struggle to meet any more patriotic Scots than the likes of Richard Gough, Stuart McCall, Andy Goram, Colin Jackson, I'm sure there will be a few others.
 
WilkinsBullet said:
I don't get why people would doubt the credibility of a player playing for the country of his parents. My boy was born abroad, was educated abroad and was brought up British and a Rangers fan. Try telling him he shouldn't qualify to play for Scotland. And I know plenty others from UK stock born abroad and who were brought up as British Scots or Englishmen, and as patriotic, maybe more so than anyone born in the UK.
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I’ve got two nephews born and bred in the US, they even speak with Scottish accents because their parents still do. When they’re back here they feel completely at home.
 
Here's a bizarre question to ponder.
If a players grandparents can get a passport for a particular country does that then make them eligible?

Eg: Ireland will give passports to anyone who's grandparents were born there.

So for a mad example. If a players, grandparents had an Irish grandparent. The players grandparent, could apply and get an Irish passport.

Could that player then be eligible for Ireland?

Even though the only genuine Irish link is one Gt Gt Grandparent!?
 
Arfield played for Canada due to his Dad being born in Toronto, and therefore has a Canadian passport. No actual blood connection to Csnada. Think that's correct
 
Hurleyreyes said:
Here's a bizarre question to ponder.
If a players grandparents can get a passport for a particular country does that then make them eligible?

Eg: Ireland will give passports to anyone who's grandparents were born there.

So for a mad example. If a players, grandparents had an Irish grandparent. The players grandparent, could apply and get an Irish passport.

Could that player then be eligible for Ireland?

Even though the only genuine Irish link is one Gt Gt Grandparent!?
Click to expand...
Good point, especially since the lines are being blurred more and more. What constitutes a Parent or Grandparent’s nationality?

I qualify for England though one Grandparent born there. Theoretically I could play for England and earn 100 caps but then my son, whose parents and Grandparents are all born in Scotland, would be ineligible.
 
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