Issue highlighted yesterday with Gio's system?

N

nateman

Well-Known Member
Felt like Dundee United's press caused our midfield to be squeezed out of the game too easily. Issue with that is we tend to keep our wide players stretched out on the pitch so we were forced into going long more often, relinquishing an element of control in the match. Dundee United seem to be getting praised a lot but the issue for me is how easy it was for them to disrupt us like that. They didn't have to do anything revolutionary and you could see with the personnel they had in they just kept it simple - I don't think they should have been capable of disrupting us to the degree they did yesterday.
 
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Every system has its pros and cons mate. Football is so thought out now, almost chess game or science like, that every player is drilled in how to both play and counter attack each system. Games are actually quite robotic a lot of the time. Every players role at every stage of the game is rehearsed to minute detail.

Inevitably it comes down to quality of players 9 times out of 10.
 
There was a clear drop off yesterday, but the team selection was also the biggest one we've had in a while.

Much like the Hibs game, the system kept the pressure on them until they lost concentration and conceded a penalty.
 
nateman said:
Felt like Dundee United's press caused our midfield to be squeezed out of the game too easily. Issue with that is we tend to keep our wide players stretched out on the pitch so we were forced into going long more often, relinquishing an element of control in the match. Dundee United seem to be getting praised a lot but the issue for me is how easy it was for them to disrupt us like that. They didn't have to do anything revolutionary and you could see with the personnel they had in they just kept it simple - I don't think they should have been capable of disrupting us to the degree they did yesterday.
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Clarke used to do it at Kilmarnock by playing two strikers to stop the passing lanes into the midfield. If that happens then you need one of the central defenders to engage the striker to then create the space behind the striker for the midfield to position into and exploit. The midfield needs to find those pockets of space and take the ball on the half turn to then play forward.

The other option is to step out with the ball like Ajer would do at Celtic to create overloads.

Goldson done this last season and used to step out with the ball and it was a massive help. Bassey also has it in his locker to do this. They need to be a bit more braver on the ball as opposed to playing it side to side.

Pep would say that there’s always space on the pitch and it needs to be found and exploited. Watch Man City to see how it’s done if a team tries this against them.
 
I think also you need to consider we had square pegs in round holes certainly for the first half.

Arfield isn’t a 10
Hagi isn’t a winger
Patterson isn’t a left back.

There was a clear improvement for me when Arfield dropped back alongside Kamara and Hagi moved centrally with Wright on the wing.

Think yesterday also probably highlighted that Borna has been quietly doing a decent job on the left without setting the heather on fire attack wise.
 
We didn’t play well but let’s not overreact.

I’d take the positives that we seen our manager is capable of making changes when he sees something isn’t right instead of being stubborn and leaving it.
 
He's barely had any time on the training ground with the players given how thick and fast the games have been coming. He's also not had an opportunity to sign any players of his choosing!

Calm down.
 
We didnt play well but were under strength, in the end we got the result.

Too much is being said of this Dundee Utd masterclass, they sat in with two banks of 4 and put 2 up front to pester our centre backs.

We got the 3 points, clean sheet and we saw Gio change the game by adapting to what he saw. That will do for me!
 
I think Utd’s tactics did work and that they were fairly immaculate and simple in possession. A good level of skill from their young players and the Argentinian they have.

However virtually every one of our players couldn’t pass nor control the ball in the first half. We know how skilful and talented Hagi is for instance, but in that first half he was hopeless.
One of those days but we won the game. I don’t expect anymore like that this season.
 
GeckoBear29 said:
I think also you need to consider we had square pegs in round holes certainly for the first half.

Arfield isn’t a 10
Hagi isn’t a winger
Patterson isn’t a left back.

There was a clear improvement for me when Arfield dropped back alongside Kamara and Hagi moved centrally with Wright on the wing.

Think yesterday also probably highlighted that Borna has been quietly doing a decent job on the left without setting the heather on fire attack wise.
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Good summary
Hagi just can’t play that role. he’s too slow and lacks any sort of physicality

Another thing I didn’t get , why we didn’t make 3rd sub to waste time
 
DarthVader said:
He's barely had any time on the training ground with the players given how thick and fast the games have been coming. He's also not had an opportunity to sign any players of his choosing!

Calm down.
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This. Will have a good few days to work on it before boxing day.
 
I'd wait until we have dropped points a few times before saying his system has glaring issues, never mind a single bad performance.

Bad performances always pop up in congested fixture schedules, even for the best teams and especially when they have to swap a lot of players around. I'm not particularly worried.
 
We have a problem with our midfield which, hopefully, GVB will address. Too many holding midfielders, no real playmaker and not enough of an attacking threat from midfield.

You can see that GVB wants balls played into channels to exploit our pace but we don't really have the midfielder who can make that pass.

Also, we miss Jack because he is a player that can dictate the pace of the game and both Arfield and Davis are coming to the end of their careers and are not the players they once were.
 
He took his first training session with the team on the 23rd November.

Every week since then has been a midweek game followed by a weekend game.

Him and his coaching staff have done remarkably well to get his system across and remain unbeaten in all competitions so far. Especially considering the run of fixtures.
 
I think yesterday's formation / selection let Gio know how different players perform alongside each other - when his preferred starting eleven or 1st choice in certain positions aren't available - for whatever reason

I saw it as an 'experiment' (which IMO - didn't work) to gauge how we can deal with injuries/ suspensions / illnesses -

It could also have shown him how team mates can stick to a successful game plan no matter what the line-up

I think there was a staleness & predictability about us before Gio arrived & opponents were becoming wise to it

DU Hiv's were (wrongly - IMO ) praised by the media for their marvellous display yesterday - but they were fairly good at doing the simple things well - which in a way was all it took to show how unbalanced we were

Gio re-dressed that imbalance with his substitutions to a degree - but on another day we might not get off so lightly IMO
 
nateman said:
Felt like Dundee United's press caused our midfield to be squeezed out of the game too easily. Issue with that is we tend to keep our wide players stretched out on the pitch so we were forced into going long more often, relinquishing an element of control in the match. Dundee United seem to be getting praised a lot but the issue for me is how easy it was for them to disrupt us like that. They didn't have to do anything revolutionary and you could see with the personnel they had in they just kept it simple - I don't think they should have been capable of disrupting us to the degree they did yesterday.
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Lundstram playing where kamara should have been was a massive factor in us not being able to cope with their press.

He just wasn't comfortable taking the ball when under pressure compared to kamara who took the ball with 4 of them around him at 1 point, dropped the shoulder,turned and drove forward
 
The biggest problem yesterday was playing two holding midfielders in Kamara and Lundstram.

There is only need for one holding midfielder against Scottish premiership dross.

It is a needless waste of a starting slot that could be given to a more attacking midfielder.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing what Gio can do when he starts to bring in players who suit his formation and style of play. In particular the wingers and the central midfield as well as the type of striker he goes for when Alfie inevitably leaves.

A near flawless start, an improvement in results and individual performances throughout the team. Yesterday was hard work but we got there.

Long term, I'm genuinely excited to see what he does
 
nateman said:
Felt like Dundee United's press caused our midfield to be squeezed out of the game too easily. Issue with that is we tend to keep our wide players stretched out on the pitch so we were forced into going long more often, relinquishing an element of control in the match. Dundee United seem to be getting praised a lot but the issue for me is how easy it was for them to disrupt us like that. They didn't have to do anything revolutionary and you could see with the personnel they had in they just kept it simple - I don't think they should have been capable of disrupting us to the degree they did yesterday.
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1_0 is the stat you are looking for.
 
Redcoat said:
The biggest problem yesterday was playing two holding midfielders in Kamara and Lundstram.

There is only need for one holding midfielder against Scottish premiership dross.

It is a needless waste of a starting slot that could be given to a more attacking midfielder.
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I disagree as Kamara often pushed on to a more advanced position and the 1 holding midfielder was getting man-marked

Sometimes having 2 isn’t about how attacking or defensive you are, it’s more about how to combat the opposition’s shape and give your defenders better options to play out from the back.

Our back 5 felt very detached from the front 5 for most of the 1st half
 
Has to be put in context he had to settle a team down after a catastrophe of a result-we got results but overall play wasn't convincing as we sacrificed possession for doing the basics. Midweek was our most coherent performance under Gio yesterday our least.

He made changes which again is understandable but too many have got carried away with things (he's twice the manager SG is and all that nonsense) and inevitably yesterday he comes under a bit of scrutiny. It's what we do.

He needs a lot of time to put his stamp on things-the job in hand is about trying to win the title by whatever means and that is a 10/10 for him so far on that front.
 
Recoba said:
I think you are looking into it too much, it was just one of those games we didn't play well and it was a shit day.
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Lundstram was the main problem in midfield. Playing from the start he offers little. He is ponderous, he has no pace and he seems almost unable to make a telling pass forward.
 
We got lucky yesterday with Utd hitting the crossbar near the end, but really there is no need to fret. 8 played, 7 wins, undefeated, only 2 goals conceded, no cause for concern as far as I can see.
 
nateman said:
Felt like Dundee United's press caused our midfield to be squeezed out of the game too easily. Issue with that is we tend to keep our wide players stretched out on the pitch so we were forced into going long more often, relinquishing an element of control in the match. Dundee United seem to be getting praised a lot but the issue for me is how easy it was for them to disrupt us like that. They didn't have to do anything revolutionary and you could see with the personnel they had in they just kept it simple - I don't think they should have been capable of disrupting us to the degree they did yesterday.
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They had lots of players out and with alot of youth, thing is when that happens, teams generally nail the basics and when you do that it'll always be a challenge. For me Sakala on the right and Hagi or Aribo in the middle would have suited us better.

The had like 1 shot on target until 90 mins Hagi, Wright should have had scored as well.
 
Does nobody listen to what the manager says?

He addressed the issue with the line up in the post match interview

He expected a back 4 from Dundee United.

He made the change at HT and acknowledged that it was required due to them playing a back 5 so need a winger on to stretch their defence

But another FF tactical genius has found a flaw in his tactics that GVB doesn't know, even though he spoke publicly about that exact thing
 
Gio and co are tinkerers which I like. Willing to try new things, willing and able to react quickly to situations, learning through experimentation. Not so much a case of plan A or plan B but rather being fluid and pragmatic.
 
Hillheadbear said:
We have a problem with our midfield which, hopefully, GVB will address. Too many holding midfielders, no real playmaker and not enough of an attacking threat from midfield.

You can see that GVB wants balls played into channels to exploit our pace but we don't really have the midfielder who can make that pass.

Also, we miss Jack because he is a player that can dictate the pace of the game and both Arfield and Davis are coming to the end of their careers and are not the players they once were.
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Forget Jack he's done no future at Ibrox a fantastic player but unfortunately injury has caught up with him misses to many games for us an absolute shame but we need player's who can cope with rigors of top flight football but Jack's body has succumbed to all his past injuries , wish him well & move him on .
 
I think you’ve made a good observation OP. Central midfield is an area I’d like to see us upgrade if/when Gio gets the opportunity. The side to side passing between Bassey and Goldson yesterday was partly due to Lundstram, Kamara, and Arfield not working hard enough to get into space to receive the ball.

We need more in there and I don’t think it’s the system, probably just personnel.
 
I simply felt we played the wrong players. Lumdstrum and Kamara both had goes of being more advanced. Neither are that type of player.
 
There was someone greeting on the match thread because Gio hadn't made subs after 40 minutes.

I have to remind myself that 95% of follow follow haven't played the game to a half decent level. It shows in the complete nonsense being spouted.
 
I thought we were poor until wright came on and his movement made me confident we would win. Hagi is a cracking player but is either brilliant or really poor and yesterday he was really poor. We won despite not being at our best and I have every confidence in the manager.
 
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