Monkey Butler
Well-Known Member
Postecoglou had a pre-season and summer window to implement it.
Has Clement had a pre-season and summer window yet?
It’s time to be sensible here
- Thread starter LoyalRanger_72
- Start date
Has Clement had a pre-season and summer window yet?
scooter70
Well-Known Member
If you don’t see that he’s closed a gap and made us competitive than that’s up to you, there’s no way this board hired him with the remit that he had to win title when he came in 9 points behind with the run of fixtures he was about to face
He’s not improved us? We were heading for about a 20 point gap until he steadied it, we have shit players mate, if (big if) we win SC final the he will have won 2 trophies from 2 that he had a realistic chance in on his arrival, that’s probably why we are paying him to answer a daft question
I am not defending blindly here however I think he has to be judged across a season where he has a bigger opportunity to make changes
We simply can’t keep changing managers every 6 months
nelster
Official FF Paparazzi
I did but I skimmed the history lesson as I lived it all like the rest of us and invested when I was asked to by John Bennett.
The past is irrelevant to deliberately neutering our best attacking option post winter break (James Tavernier), going punt it and looking like you’ve no idea how to defend, attack, do a press interview or sign players suited to a system / Scottish football
No he’s had 7 months.
He was apparently under no pressure to challenge Celtic and it was a free hit, so I keep getting told.
So either it was a free hit and he’s had time and freedom to implement a style of play, or it wasn’t a free hit and he was expected to challenge. Which is it?
HandsomeHead
Well-Known Member
Personally I haven’t seen anyone saying he should be sacked - that’s just hysterical nonsense - but there are legitimate concerns about his tactical inflexibility, the complete absence of any style of play or evidence of improvement by coaching as well as an inability to reinstil confidence and belief into the players.
We’ve been severely hampered by injuries, players who look more or less finished and others who simply aren’t good enough, but he was contending with all of that initially too and actually getting some great performances and results out of them.
It’s entirely likely that that simply wasn’t sustainable though and we find ourselves where we are today as a result, but he’s told us repeatedly that he’s a born winner, that he’s obsessed about winning even (his wife scolding him for Competitive Dad syndrome when playing board games with his kids at home) so I’d expect to see evidence of that - looking at different approaches to winning matches, not just doing the same thing every week and hoping it’ll somehow click.
We all like him, we all want to believe in him, but he needs to give us something to invest in.
The League Cup win was supposed to be the springboard for further success, instead there’s a distinct possibility it’ll be all he has to show for his first season and that isn’t nearly good enough for any Rangers managed to hang their hat on I’m afraid.
We’ve been severely hampered by injuries, players who look more or less finished and others who simply aren’t good enough, but he was contending with all of that initially too and actually getting some great performances and results out of them.
It’s entirely likely that that simply wasn’t sustainable though and we find ourselves where we are today as a result, but he’s told us repeatedly that he’s a born winner, that he’s obsessed about winning even (his wife scolding him for Competitive Dad syndrome when playing board games with his kids at home) so I’d expect to see evidence of that - looking at different approaches to winning matches, not just doing the same thing every week and hoping it’ll somehow click.
We all like him, we all want to believe in him, but he needs to give us something to invest in.
The League Cup win was supposed to be the springboard for further success, instead there’s a distinct possibility it’ll be all he has to show for his first season and that isn’t nearly good enough for any Rangers managed to hang their hat on I’m afraid.
Mozza
Well-Known Member
Also mad how nobody was making these points when he had more players available and were winning games. Possibly that correlation tells us something.
ChildOfGoth
Well-Known Member
If I’m reading this right you said these previous managers earned the credit for the club to support there rebuild is that correct SDF ?
To me it’s not a race to be the first to write negatives nor condemn an employee it’s about support and encouragement and yes of course if people have some awareness and expertise to ask Qs and offer possible advice that’s great . Barbs and worse is not healthy though I say keep that for our many opponents .
What we continually see from most is heavy criticisms which may or may not have any basis to them . Easy to post very rarely able to be backed is my experience .
Sticky
Well-Known Member
Just before their first goal we had started to come into the game and were keeping the ball better until he passes inside to a Celtc player. Not only is he out of position others were wrong side of the ball because they had made runs looking for a pass. It happens too often.
He came in when we were 7 behind. We’re now 6 behind, and they’ve lost twice to Hearts and once to Kilmarnock in that time period.
They have shit players as well. They played the game yesterday with 5 out 6 players of their backline who wouldn’t get in our team.
Monkey Butler
Well-Known Member
Everyone accepts that this squad is awful, injury-prone, lacks quality and is past it, yet Clement is expected to get them winning away at Celtic and to win the league, and if he doesn’t then he’s failed?
You can’t have it both ways, you either accept that Clement has tried his best with one hand tied behind his back and let him rip up this squad in the summer (as he’s done before at Genk and Brugge and subsequently won leagues), or you say this squad is good enough to win a league and Clement is holding them back with his style of play and selections. Judging by your posts you fall into the latter camp.
He’s a victim of his own success (by dragging us back into a title race and getting people’s hopes up) in that regard.
nelster
Official FF Paparazzi
Clement implemented James Tavernier not overlapping steaming in back post after the winter break.
James Tavernier was stood in the centre circle at some set plays while Rangers played ten men last week. I must be going mad if its only me that now sees Rangers build an attack and Tavernier ends up the 7th furthest player from the goal.
There’s been obvious changes made shortly after it was announced “he’s simplified things” in the cup final interviews.
I’ll not launch into what those changes resulted in and leave it at that.
westenclosurebear
Well-Known Member
Scarily accurate, what a cluster %^*&..
randomhero
Well-Known Member
No one can argue with that OP.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
I agree. The last while has been a major concern. Resorting to long aimless balls, Giving up chances in the first minute of nearly every single game we have played lately. You can’t just give him all the credit for us getting back in it then just blame the players when it’s went tits up. Would Beale have got away with claiming a moral victory in a home Old Firm draw when a win leaves us in a great position to go on and win the league? Absolutely no chance
Midfield General
Well-Known Member
I would think everyone on this board want the Manager to succeed.I believe he has the credentials to do so,however he needs to start getting victories over them.
The players are not exempt from blame for yesterdays result but the tactics are down to the Manager and they were abysmal.
I really hope you are right, mate.
I just can’t foresee a sequence of events that take us from what we are watching every week to where we want to be.
I’ve seen nothing from Clement to suggest he’s the man to take us forward.
Celtic have been dreadful and have equally poor players, and have had their three of their four best players out injured for huge parts of the season.
You can see they actually have a style and a bit of structure about them despite their weaknesses, and they will invest next year.
Us on the other hand, I’ve no idea what we’re trying to do other than hoof it forward, play off second balls and set pieces.
Utterly depressing.
Coisty81
Well-Known Member
Agreed with that summary, if he doesn't win the Scottish Cup I will have lost all faith in him to deliver success.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
Was that when the ball broke to him and he had loads of space but took a terrible touch? No chance that happens at the other end of the pitch that they wouldn’t have got a shot away at our goal.
scooter70
Well-Known Member
I see you totally ignored the fact he could still end up with the 2 trophies he actually had a chance of winning when he came in
It’s clear you want him gone, you may be right, time will tell but I’ll say it again, we can’t just keep sacking managers, we need fundamentals fixed to give managers any chance
cooperman
Well-Known Member
he's no a miracle worker, he said that when he started, I've seen how his previous teams play, but for that you need the right players and a good pre-season both of which we do/did not have
Those who refused to see any progress made are blind, yer it fooking hurts that we lost the league and the manner in which it happened
but I'm actually looking forward to what PC can do with his own signings and a proper pre season
Those who refused to see any progress made are blind, yer it fooking hurts that we lost the league and the manner in which it happened
but I'm actually looking forward to what PC can do with his own signings and a proper pre season
Awaydays
Well-Known Member
Maybe so, but some are very good at starting a lynch mob.
I'll ask you this then, are you quite happy with our current rotating managers bollocks we go through every year? Or are you willing to keep going down this road, which has been proved doesn't work, not just at Rangers.
You have plenty to say about what's going wrong, let's hear what you have to say about sorting it out. A name for the new managers job yet again and how we finance that by bringing in new players up to the task.
Yes, it's very easy to call all this out, not so easy to put your name to it and tell us what is needed. I'll admit I have no idea, but you are telling us all that's wrong, tell us what will make it right? Only thing I can think of, is another Souness moment out of the blue. I've seen all this before and I certainly don't think we're anywhere near sorting it all out in the next cpl of years and even longer as we go through the yoyo manager routine. If patience is not going to be accepted, then prepare for years of this to come.
cooperman
Well-Known Member
and they ignore the fact that when PC came in, we all thought Beale had lost us the league by then anyway
PC came in and breathed a bit of hope into the support, aye so it all went tits up, but I think with his own players and a proper pre season I'm actually hopeful for next season
also the amount of injuries alone was very unlucky for PC
Last edited:
He's had a training camp in Spain to implement his tactics & style.We've collapsed since then.
I like Clement btw. Just pointing out facts
Awaydays
Well-Known Member
He didn't get off to a flier either. If we started like he did, we'd have got, the get shot of the manager brigade in full flight.
ClubFootZzZ
Well-Known Member
Clement, like every manager since the EL final season, is working with the reality that the quality in our squad is not close to the level required to get where we want to go. We can dress up this squad however we like, and say that they for all their flaws they have enough quality to have done better in individual games like County, Dundee, Motherwell, Celtic at home etc., but the reality is that they've proven for three years running with three different managers they're nowhere near good enough to produce when it matters and get us over the line. There is not a manager in world football we could go and get who could come in and get that squad in its current iteration over the line IMO - it's a fundamentally flawed squad of players that needs 4/5 quality additions to its starting line up, so there's no point in berating Clement for not managing to do that.
He's made decisions I've disagreed with over the past few months and he's certainly not immune to criticism, but as someone who has largely defended the mentality + ability of the core of the team for the last 4/5 years, they key changes that it is clear now are required in the summer should be to the playing squad, not managerial roles. That doesn't IMO necessarily mean binning Goldson, Tav etc. altogether and starting again, but it does mean we need to fill the squad with what it has proved time and time again it is sorely lacking - i.e, a quality spine of the team that can show resilience in difficult moments, that isn't prone to imploding at the first sign of adversity and enjoys playing in big games. If we don't do that, then I'm sorry but it won't matter whether or not it's Clement, Pep or Klopp managing the side, they'd all be on a hiding to nothing as the last 3 managers have been.
I'm a bit more optimistic than most, I think you're never as far away as it seems you might be (a six point swing next season could be accomplished for example by simply not being a bag of shit in all 4 old firm games, let alone anything else) but nothing will change unless the squad of players on the pitch does. I think since 55 we've tried to get over, under, around and through that insurmountable obstacle, with managerial appointments, unimaginative recruitment and convincing ourselves the squad was capable of more than it was showing, but the reality has proved inescapable - they are simply not good enough in key positions throughout the team to regularly win trophies and big games. All we can hope is Clement is afforded the resource to perform the necessary surgery in the summer, and that he has the balls and backing to make the big decisions that need made.
He's made decisions I've disagreed with over the past few months and he's certainly not immune to criticism, but as someone who has largely defended the mentality + ability of the core of the team for the last 4/5 years, they key changes that it is clear now are required in the summer should be to the playing squad, not managerial roles. That doesn't IMO necessarily mean binning Goldson, Tav etc. altogether and starting again, but it does mean we need to fill the squad with what it has proved time and time again it is sorely lacking - i.e, a quality spine of the team that can show resilience in difficult moments, that isn't prone to imploding at the first sign of adversity and enjoys playing in big games. If we don't do that, then I'm sorry but it won't matter whether or not it's Clement, Pep or Klopp managing the side, they'd all be on a hiding to nothing as the last 3 managers have been.
I'm a bit more optimistic than most, I think you're never as far away as it seems you might be (a six point swing next season could be accomplished for example by simply not being a bag of shit in all 4 old firm games, let alone anything else) but nothing will change unless the squad of players on the pitch does. I think since 55 we've tried to get over, under, around and through that insurmountable obstacle, with managerial appointments, unimaginative recruitment and convincing ourselves the squad was capable of more than it was showing, but the reality has proved inescapable - they are simply not good enough in key positions throughout the team to regularly win trophies and big games. All we can hope is Clement is afforded the resource to perform the necessary surgery in the summer, and that he has the balls and backing to make the big decisions that need made.
Bknowe
Well-Known Member
Absolute nonsense
scooter70
Well-Known Member
As I say it may end up with him being a failure but to say he’s done nothing is harsh, we were literally heading for a gap of around 20 points deficit before he arrived, not many thought we’d take it to last week of season at that stage
In saying that it badly needs fixed, like many others I’m getting sick of people saying “we did not bad” etc etc, because we “only” lost 2-1 to them down to 10 men, the attitude and acceptance of some of this is all wrong, I just don’t see how we can place it at his feet at this stage though
We are again at the stage where that squad needs absolutely gutted
Round and round we go
weetam3106
Well-Known Member
Which department is it with the club that manage the players contracts? Is there a person, a team dedicated to the contracts? Why have critical assets been allowed to have their contracts run out? Look how many expire in the summer, and some may say “thank %^*&” but it seems wilful mismanagement of our playing resources, which if we manage them correctly can and should be sold when the time is absolutely right. We’ve shamelessly neglected that side of the business.
Medical side, least said about this the better but there can be very few clubs who have suffered from such a large injury list as ourselves.
The club needs some major surgery to sort things out, some glaring mistakes aside I don’t think that our issue is with Phil Clement. Not yet anyway.
Medical side, least said about this the better but there can be very few clubs who have suffered from such a large injury list as ourselves.
The club needs some major surgery to sort things out, some glaring mistakes aside I don’t think that our issue is with Phil Clement. Not yet anyway.
So I’m not allowed to voice my concern over clear and obvious deficiencies within the club I love and put money in to if I don’t have a long and varied expertise on attainable managerial candidates?
Sorry, but that’s utter drivel. Thats what people at the club are paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for. I could list plenty managers I’d love here, but I don’t know how attainable they’d be or what we’d be willing to pay them.
I’m capable of patience if I see signs of us even slowly improving. In 7 months I’ve seen nothing.
Degausser
Well-Known Member
That may be true but we played with 6 midfield/forward players yesterday that, on current form, wouldn’t get in their team either.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
Always makes me laugh that these guys who have opinions on absolutely everything from a managers tactics/coaching, recruitment, media handling (things they know nothing about) etc get so defensive when they are asked this.
We cannot let this squad of players out live another manager.
Agree with a lot of this, particularly your last paragraph. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticise him though. He is as culpable as some of the players for the poor results recently.
It's a massive summer, that much is obvious. Flipping the manager every 18 months isn't going to get us closer to them either.
Monkey Butler
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
We can’t keep going through constant cycles of hiring and firing because we’re not getting instant success. It also comes across as absolving the squad of any responsibility - is it any wonder they make so many mistakes and are so slack? They’ve been practically untouchable for years under Gerrard, Gio and Beale.
We need to sign players that suit manager, instead of signing managers to suit the players. We already tried the latter with Gio and Beale so we wouldn’t have to gut the squad, and they both failed because our squad is beyond help.
Monkey Butler
Well-Known Member
We can’t keep hiring and firing in the hope we eventually get lucky with a Wim Jansen-type.
We desperately need consistency in the manager’s seat, and that means sticking with Clement and letting him make the changes required. He’s got the best track record of any manager we can reasonably get at our level, so the alternative isn’t worth thinking about.
TheBlueRoom
Member
The problems are simpler than that. Not too many will admit it, but the money isn't there. The club is surviving on soft loans. Most of our signings this summer won't cost anything, just like last summer. There'll be out of contract players and loans backing up 2 or 3 that cost any decent money. The quality isn't there. Until Rangers can sign proven players in good numbers, they'll essentially be waiting on another covid-type implosion from Celtic whilst hoping to be good enough to capitalise on it. That's the reality. An uncomfortable one, but it is.
Glasgow Rangers (Sco)
Well-Known Member
The quality of recruitment since the summer after winning the league has been abysmal…….in fact Lundstrum was the beginning of the downturn
Awaydays
Well-Known Member
See that name you use, that legendary player spent many years being 2nd fiddle to that lot, that's if we were even 2nd.
Sorry, but going through a manager once a season will get us nowhere. I watched our present manager put in a great performance against Madrid in the bernabeu and tbh a var call was what got Madrid out of jail that night. Bruges were very impressive, so I would suggest he knows how to manage.
I think you want fast silky football, me I don't care if we win matches, whatever it takes. Every successful Rangers team I've seen and before my time have always had a strong defence. Get that sorted first and take it from there.
I agree mate. Wim Jansen wasnt a good manager anyway, he got lucky that we didn't upgrade properly after winning 9. That lot only won 5 of their last 11 games and still won the league. We only lost to them once in 5 attempts that season too.
Can you tell it still pisses me off?
I genuinely dont know how people feel so comfortable knowing what they don’t like, but don’t know what they do like.
Imagine critiquing your wife or folk at work, but then refusing to tell them how you think it should be done. It’s proper weird.
I wouldn’t bother saying something if I couldn’t think of an alternative.
Fife flyer
Well-Known Member
Things change.
When he came in everyone said that he had a free hit. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it within a few games of him coming in we had picked up points in games we wouldn’t have under Beale and at the same time they dropped points in games they weren’t expected to.
Suddenly and unexpectedly the title race was back on. One consequence of that was that Clement no longer had a free hit and the pressure was back on to win every game with a squad of players which we all know aren’t very good.
What an absolutely bizarre analogy.
I can see your point - there does appear to be no structure to the team.
The problem is - he inherited a team hurt by the appalling damage inflicted on it by Michael Beale. He also inherited a squad that is plagued by injury.
Whenever there seems to be some sort of system or consistency, key members of the team got injured and it was start again.
The constant kicking Tavernier receives on here is sickening - this is the easy go to for fans to vent frustrations without really digging deep into the real problems with the team.
This is a guy whom we seem to be relying on getting forward and creating chances - because it seems our midfield/forwards can't do this themselves. Yet when he is caught out defensively the whole thing is his fault.
Rangers need a quality right sided midfielder to take the responsibility off Tavernier - if he is still here next season - or Sterling if he is Tav's replacement.
Our lack of creativity from the attackers has cost us and in recent weeks has been exploited by teams whom we should have been blowing away. Our lack of an alternative to Dessers has also cost us. Fair play to Dessers for sticking at it but we need better.
McCausland has taken a bit of stick on here also (including me) but our best run came when he was constantly in the team.
Clement deserves the summer (backed properly) and the season to get it right.
We can't keep sacking managers.
Glad that you’re laughing.
Whose job is it you want me to do?
Advise the £2.5million a year Clement on how to coach Rangers players on 25k a week on how not to get embarrassed by jobbers from Motherwell and Ross County?
Or advise the board on how to appoint a manager with an inkling on how to defensively organise, or coach a team even one single attacking pattern of play?
So you want another new manager appointed ?
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
No need to get so defensive. It was a general point about posters who demand managers get sacked but go all shy when they're asked who they'd like in charge. You're not the only one.
