Jock Wallace's Tenure: 1983-86

Lairdo

Well-Known Member
Received opinion is that Mr Wallace's second spell as manager was "a failure" (Archie McPherson et al). It is undeniable that we never returned to the summit of Scottish football during this period and were the fourth best team in the country. However, I believe there are a number of circumstances and decisions that impeded Jock Wallace and prevented him succeeding.

Mr Wallace assumed the role in November 1983, succeeding his own successor John Greig. It was opined that Alex Ferguson and Jim McLean turned down the job over unease at "boardroom issues." (Alex Ferguson claimed on Rangers TV that Scot Symon warned him that two individuals were vying to be Chairman and that a Football Manager would be caught up in the politics of the situation. I assume he was referring to John Paton and Jack Gillespie). Thus, Jock Wallace assumed the position among "boardroom issues."

Mr Wallace stabilised the footballing situation and captured the League Cup in March 1984. Despite this, he realised the team required rebuilding and identified three young players who he believed would be a mainstay for a number of years - John Brown, Gordon Durie, and Craig Levein. All three were keen (Brown and Durie obviously did sign some years later) but the Board would not back Mr Wallace financially. Instead, we started the 1984/85 season with new signings Iain Ferguson and Cammy Fraser.

Mr Wallace's assistant Alex Totten provided further evidence of the Board's parsimony in his book "From the Kop to the Kelpies." Totten recalled a conversation with Chairman John Paton on the Team Bus after an away victory: "he (Paton) said if you keep playing like that we'll give you a bit more money to spend." Totten wondered why the management team were not backed by the Board at the outset.

To summarise: I believe Mr Wallace operated with his hands tied and received a raw deal in his second spell. (I also believed his achievements in his first spell were overlooked, but thats for another post).

I salute a Great Ranger, John Martin Bokas Wallace.
 
A giant of a Ranger, and a truly wonderful man and wonderful manager.

But after injecting life into a dispirited and broken team, things went downhill horribly in that second spell. We had some great moments and victories, but by the time he left we were every bit as abysmal as the team he inherited.

Yet with just 3 or 4 class additions, a lot of them got turned into Champions within a year.
 
Turned McCoist into the striker he became. Gave Durrant his chance. Brought in the likes of Fleck, Munro and Ferguson. Wasn’t a terrible squad - as Souness found out. Just needed a bit of quality to bring it on.

The board had their heart set on Ferguson or McLean. Jock was Plan C. I can well believe the board were reluctant to commit. He got a raw deal off Rangers - twice!
 
The signing of Dougie Bell told you we were shopping in the bargain bin at this time. A bit player with Aberdeen he was never going to turn the Rangers of 1985 into championship contenders.

I do remember big Jock saying in the press if he had been given the money Souness had got he would have delivered the title.
 
A giant of a Ranger, and a truly wonderful man and wonderful manager.

But after injecting life into a dispirited and broken team, things went downhill horribly in that second spell. We had some great moments and victories, but by the time he left we were every bit as abysmal as the team he inherited.

Yet with just 3 or 4 class additions, a lot of them got turned into Champions within a year.
Sums it up was a torrid time for us. Love Jock Wallace May be too young to see have seen his teams before but a hero still
 
Turned McCoist into the striker he became. Gave Durrant his chance. Brought in the likes of Fleck, Munro and Ferguson. Wasn’t a terrible squad - as Souness found out. Just needed a bit of quality to bring it on.

The board had their heart set on Ferguson or McLean. Jock was Plan C. I can well believe the board were reluctant to commit. He got a raw deal off Rangers - twice!
That team in 86 was coming good; I think so anyway, from a distance. He asked for more time and didn't get it, but your post makes it clear he was not a failure in that second period.
 
Btw im prepared for incoming here. I thought Fraser was a terrific player for Dundee. Pity it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped with us.
 
I’ve always said if Ferguson had got the job instead of Jock, we’d have had another European trophy in our cupboard.

Perhaps.

We tried to get him, he turned us down. That's life.

It should be remembered that he joined Man United in 1986 but didn't win his first title with them until 1993. At Rangers, he'd have been sacked long before that. So even if he had become Rangers manager, it's quite possible he'd have been dismissed after a couple of seasons with no silverware.
 
it wasn't just the quality that Souness brought it was the approach

a nasty , aggressive winning mentailty

all of Souness' signings improved the defensive side

Woods, Butcher, Roberts and of course himself in the centre of it all

Wallace left an enormous legacy in Mccoist, Fleck, Durrant, Cooper, Derek Ferguson

Just like now we have some talented players but there is no winning mentality

we're not aggressive or violent enough to win anything
 
I looked at the team we won the league with in 86/87.
Ally dawson actually played 10 games.
In theory, souness, butcher and woods were the only additions that year.
Jock had to compete against the best aberdeen and dundee utd teams in their history.
As we know Hearts were really strong as was the tims.
 
it wasn't just the quality that Souness brought it was the approach

a nasty , aggressive winning mentailty

all of Souness' signings improved the defensive side

Woods, Butcher, Roberts and of course himself in the centre of it all

Wallace left an enormous legacy in Mccoist, Fleck, Durrant, Cooper, Derek Ferguson

Just like now we have some talented players but there is no winning mentality

we're not aggressive or violent enough to win anything
I have actually thought about that very recently.
Imo SG is lacking in the approach Souness had.

And i know things have changed.
 
Remember his return like it was yesterday. My dad took me to Pittodrie for his first game back as a young lad and I could feel from his delight someone special had returned home. Even after a 3-0 drubbing the fans chanted his name at the end of the match. This is when I realised what it was to be a Ranger. We have had much success since but to me Jock Wallace will always be my hero as he gave me a love of our club forever.
 
The truth is we were dreadful during this period.
The strongest dundee utd and aberdeen era in their history.
A very strong tim team and one of the best Hearts team ever but we still won something .
Jock got peanuts to spend, John Mcleland left because he was on £300 quid a week. And remember we had kind of signing policy.
 
it wasn't just the quality that Souness brought it was the approach

a nasty , aggressive winning mentailty

all of Souness' signings improved the defensive side

Woods, Butcher, Roberts and of course himself in the centre of it all

Wallace left an enormous legacy in Mccoist, Fleck, Durrant, Cooper, Derek Ferguson

Just like now we have some talented players but there is no winning mentality

we're not aggressive or violent enough to win anything
The first four lines could equally apply to Aberdeen at that time. We had Craig Patterson and a guy from Mansfield reserves. No doubt, Jock Wallace restored some of the pride knocked out of us in the latter stages of John Greig’s tenure- but- the team was in transition and he would never have been able to supplement the younger generation of quality with the international class Souness was able to bring in.
 
The first four lines could equally apply to Aberdeen at that time. We had Craig Patterson and a guy from Mansfield reserves. No doubt, Jock Wallace restored some of the pride knocked out of us in the latter stages of John Greig’s tenure- but- the team was in transition and he would never have been able to supplement the younger generation of quality with the international class Souness was able to bring in.
Souness attracted players as he was still playing ,and the english ban helped big time.
Jock would have been an unknown name outside of Scotland to an extent.
 
Didnt know that.
When you look at the attendances early to mid 80s , the average must have been low 20s?
Nothing against Jack Gillespie, but he only had a couple of car places in Lenzie.
Lawrence Malborough was exiled in Arizona and apparently didn't enjoy being an absent majority shareholder, David Holmes was brought in to revolutionise the club get back to winning as Malborough ultimately wanted to sell but thought no-one would buy a club not winning. The strict wage structure had to go and as you say souness' star power attracted big names.
 
That team in 86 was coming good; I think so anyway, from a distance. He asked for more time and didn't get it, but your post makes it clear he was not a failure in that second period.

We were inconsistent and lacked confidence. We could beat Celtic 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to Hearts the following week. Three or four first team players would have made a difference.

It’s a complicated one. The club had lost its confidence over the previous 20 years and probably needed a Souness type to give us an electric shock. After the stadium development was completed, I don’t think the board knew what to do next. Those years - 1981 to 1986 - were lost years. John Greig was backed too long and Jock Wallace wasn’t backed at all.
 
His second stint cannot be described as anything other than a failure. We were lucky to finish 5th in 1985/86!!
We were inconsistent and lacked confidence. We could beat Celtic 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to Hearts the following week. Three or four first team players would have made a difference.

It’s a complicated one. The club had lost its confidence over the previous 20 years and probably needed a Souness type to give us an electric shock. After the stadium development was completed, I don’t think the board knew what to do next. Those years - 1981 to 1986 - were lost years. John Greig was backed too long and Jock Wallace wasn’t backed at all.
There are certain parallels between the two stints he had in regards to players careers after he left. We never saw the potential of players after he left. He was obviously courageous in throwing players into teams etc. I became curious about his managerial career a few years ago, and it's impossible not to conclude that he really was a great manager. I'd say he is my favourite Rangers manager even though I only supported the club in his less than successful second term, and even then my immediate memory of those days is scant.
 
I didn’t know Gillespie or Paton personally so have no idea if one or other was ‘a good guy’ but alway thought that Gillespie desperately wanted the chairman’s job and there was friction there.
We really were grim back then, and as for Cammy Fraser don’t get me started.
 
I remember liam brady getting pelters right up until he was substituted.
I was in the west enclosure, which was unusual for me as it was always the east.
Was that the year we played bohemins of dublin?
Think they had about a dozen fans at Ibrox.
I was 17 so a bit blurry, old england sherry or LD was have been in the system
 
I didn’t know Gillespie or Paton personally so have no idea if one or other was ‘a good guy’ but alway thought that Gillespie desperately wanted the chairman’s job and there was friction there.
We really were grim back then, and as for Cammy Fraser don’t get me started.
Back problems .
 
As the song went ..
Hees as welcome as the union jack..
One thing is when it went terribly wrong for him, i dont recall fans singing wallace must go.. We loved him.. even as a 13 yr old boy i understood the love for the man.. .
Disgusted how he was treated after he left.. glad he was allowed on the pitch 1 final time..
I recall his death, i was on a lads holiday during the fair when i phoned home and my dad told me, me and my 2 mates sat crying like baby's
 
I was in the west enclosure, which was unusual for me as it was always the east.
Was that the year we played bohemins of dublin?
Think they had about a dozen fans at Ibrox.
I was 17 so a bit blurry, old england sherry or LD was have been in the system
We played bohemians the previous round I was in the west enclosure for the home tie, there was a handful of bohemians punters in the broomloan. I was in the broomloan rear for the Inter game, I was 12 :))
 
That team in 86 was coming good; I think so anyway, from a distance. He asked for more time and didn't get it, but your post makes it clear he was not a failure in that second period.

I want to agree but I can't.

In our last season under Mr Wallace we lost more league games than we won for the only time in our entire history. We scraped 5th place, and if it wasn't for Ally McCoist becoming a consistent goalscorer we would have been down near the bottom as he won us so many points.
Just about every other team in the league beat us.

Knocked out over 2 legs in the league cup by a poor Hibs team, and in the first round of the Scottish Cup at Tynecastle after being 2-1 up in the second half. It was a team who just kept losing game after game.

And we actually started the season well.

I don't just like Jock Wallace, I love him. But sacking him and bringing in Souness was absolutely right.
 
I want to agree but I can't.

In our last season under Mr Wallace we lost more league games than we won for the only time in our entire history. We scraped 5th place, and if it wasn't for Ally McCoist becoming a consistent goalscorer we would have been down near the bottom as he won us so many points.
Just about every other team in the league beat us.

Knocked out over 2 legs in the league cup by a poor Hibs team, and in the first round of the Scottish Cup at Tynecastle after being 2-1 up in the second half. It was a team who just kept losing game after game.

And we actually started the season well.

I don't just like Jock Wallace, I love him. But sacking him and bringing in Souness was absolutely right.
I can't argue with that, but I really want my cake and eat when it comes to his second stint. I'm curious about the potential of those young players had he stayed. Great post btw.
 
I can't argue with that, but I really want my cake and eat when it comes to his second stint. I'm curious about the potential of those young players had he stayed. Great post btw.

Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Fleck, Munro all got Rangers first team games and experience against our biggest rivals thanks to Jock Wallace, that laid the foundations for their careers.

But Souness found the way to make them winning Rangers players.

As mentioned already, nobody called for Jock to go, he commanded so much love and respect. But deep down we were relieved when the change happened.
 
Sir Alex probably would have been our manager if they had handled it correctly.Willie Waddell was running Rangers but the approach was made by John Paton and this made him uncomfortable,I also believe he spoke with Scot Symon to get behind the scenes info.
 
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