Kent / Candeias / Arfield

Albertz_Was_King

Albertz_Was_King

Well-Known Member
Kent - 5 goals - 473 mins per goal
Candeias - 5 goals - 567 mins per goal
Arfield - 6 goals - 435 mins per goal

Compared with our title rivals:

Christie - 10 goals - 211 mins per goal
Sinclair - 16 goals - 175 mins per goal
Forrest - 13 goals - 256 mins per goal

Needless to say these statistics are pretty damning. Our players are incapable of even getting remotely near those type of numbers of various reasons. The obvious difference is the quality of player. Gerrard has put far too much faith in a journeymen in Candeias, having a strong work-ethic should not be enough to pull the wool over people's eyes, however he is constantly selected in games.

Kent for all his trickery just doesn't give us the tangible outcomes required, he is a talented young lad learning the game and would be a terrific addition to the team to see whether he can kick on further and realise his potential. However we have seen in the past with Warburton, no matter how good these young loaned players from down south are, they are never quite at the level where they can impact league titles.

Arfield has never been an attacking midfield player, so it's been quite bizarre to see Gerrard play him in such a role throughout the season. At his best he is combative, hard-working and can cover the ground but he is never in a million years going to get close to what Rogic, Christie etc. can do for them.

The manager needs backed by the board to actually pay a transfer fee for a midfield player. I don't think in two windows he has had that pleasure which is disturbing. However the blame must also lie at Gerrard and Allen because they money they have spent (which has not been enough IMO), should have been focused on this problematic area.

This isn't anything new which is the most worrying thing, everyone can see apart from Morelos we literally have no goal threat from open play.
 
Good post. These guys all need to reach double figures. We should be expectinf Ryan Jack or McCrorie to get 5 or 6 from DM also and 4 or 5 from each centre back at set pieces.
 
Pretty damning indeed we need much better and people need to start realising that just because candeias is a grafter he should automatically be in the starting 11 when in reallity he offers very little going forward.
 
Good post. Lays bare one of the problems that hinders our ability to catch them and it doesnt make for good reading by the players and the manager.
 
I posted after one of our European qualifiers that my main concern was where are goals where coming from.

Was called a panty wetter, drama queen etc. It was glaringly obvious from early on imo.
 
But according to some Arfield played fantastic against the filth so goals scored doesn't matter... i totally agree work rate is required but so is chipping in with goals.. our midfield hasn't got what it takes!!
 
A quick look at the scoring stats shows where our problems lie . Take Morelos out that team and we are impotent.
 
None of them are good enough, including Kent.

Arfield isn’t a wide player though but he disappears in too many games due to the poor quality of midfielders behind them who struggle to make a accurate forward pass.
 
I often don't like stats because they can be very misleading or easy to misrepresent a lot of the time-

But it's hard not to think those ones are pretty damning.All three of those players have their place in the squad,but as starters of a title winning team I'm afraid I'm not so sure.
 
I noticed their players yesterday.
Christie and McGregor (who I think are decent players but a bit overrated) looked so much more dangerous than our midfield.

As soon as they get the ball they drive forward and look to play an attacking pass or work an opportunity to shoot.

We never do that.
 
Kent has done better than I expected tbh but those stats are damning. I stated very early doors that these young loanees just won't cut it over a 38 game season. Never have and never will. And it's being proved correct again. Will only work with a very special talent and our chances of getting one on loan are highly unlikely.

Our recruitment approach needs to change. Far to many average players and loans. Instead of spending X amount of 2 or 3 players go big and invest in one quality player. Do that enough times and I think we would be far better off.
 
Growler said:
Biggest signing is Grezda, and always makes you wonder why the hell we’ve signed Jones - who never scores either.

We keep buying midfielders who don’t score, and wingers who don’t score. No wonder we rely too much on Morelos.
Click to expand...

I keep coming back to Grezda.

When we spent that sort of money on him, money no one outside of ourselves and the Filth can spend, it was surely because we expected him to be the type of player that would get into double figures for the season.

I get that some players just don’t work out, but he’s been a really poor waste of scant resources so far.

We can’t do that again.
 
I think people are starting to wake up to the fact that guys of candieas quality and even arfield will not see us challenging any time soon for the league.
 
D4RN-L said:
We don’t try a shot until 10 yards out FFS
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We never have much room or space to be able to have a decent pop because of how slow our tempo and intensity is. We don't move, think or pass quick enough.

More often than not we're wanting players to take a shot when the opposition has 6/7/8/9 bodys in the box blocking us. Its going to be a pointless waste of possession, especially when none of our players are actually that good at shooting.
 
While you can’t really argue with stats like those...how many games have those filth players played in the Scottish SPL? And how many games have they played together this season? Far more than Kent, Candeias and Arfield.
 
Shoot me down for saying this: Jamie Murphy was the very type who was scoring goals regularly, likewise, I think Jordan Jones offers that as well, he looks the type who is tricky and isn't scared to take a dig. That to me would be an improvement, but it's going to take a wee bit for Murphy to get back up to speed, pre season for that.

You are right though, we need more.
 
Growler said:
Biggest signing is Grezda, and always makes you wonder why the hell we’ve signed Jones - who never scores either.

We keep buying midfielders who don’t score, and wingers who don’t score. No wonder we rely too much on Morelos.
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Its a dangerous game we're playing. We have an abundance of midfielders and attackers who just don't scorE.

We’re quite poor at finishing in the warm up too.
RFC#1Scotty said:
Shoot me down for saying this: Jamie Murphy was the very type who was scoring goals regularly, likewise, I think Jordan Jones offers that as well, he looks the type who is tricky and isn't scared to take a dig. That to me would be an improvement, but it's going to take a wee bit for Murphy to get back up to speed, pre season for that.

You are right though, we need more.
Click to expand...
Jones shooting is awful.

You are right about Murphy though.
 
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Stevie13000 said:
I think people are starting to wake up to the fact that guys of candieas quality and even arfield will not see us challenging any time soon for the league.
Click to expand...
It's more whether the manager can see that.

He has gone on record as saying he "trusts" the aforementioned players, quite an interesting phrase used by the manager.

I think he places great value on work-rate and people who carry out his game-plan, rather than a rogue/flair type who perhaps can win the game with a bit of magic but won't track his man here or there.
 
How many of the Rangers players goals were match winners? Candieas against hamilton and Jack against the bheggars come to mind.
The likes of Sinclair could score 2 in a 5-0 game but they wouldn't be vital goals.
Point im trying to make is sometimes it only takes one goal to get 3 points.
 
Worth noting that Sinclair will be earning more than the three players the OP mentioned combined. Rumoured to be on £40-50k a week.

I think the biggest concern for us is Rodgers. If he goes they'll struggle. He seems to get the best out of players. Guys like Forrest and McGregor were pretty average before he arrived.
 
Albertz_Was_King said:
Kent - 5 goals - 473 mins per goal
Candeias - 5 goals - 567 mins per goal
Arfield - 6 goals - 435 mins per goal

Compared with our title rivals:

Christie - 10 goals - 211 mins per goal
Sinclair - 16 goals - 175 mins per goal
Forrest - 13 goals - 256 mins per goal

Needless to say these statistics are pretty damning. Our players are incapable of even getting remotely near those type of numbers of various reasons. The obvious difference is the quality of player. Gerrard has put far too much faith in a journeymen in Candeias, having a strong work-ethic should not be enough to pull the wool over people's eyes, however he is constantly selected in games.

Kent for all his trickery just doesn't give us the tangible outcomes required, he is a talented young lad learning the game and would be a terrific addition to the team to see whether he can kick on further and realise his potential. However we have seen in the past with Warburton, no matter how good these young loaned players from down south are, they are never quite at the level where they can impact league titles.

Arfield has never been an attacking midfield player, so it's been quite bizarre to see Gerrard play him in such a role throughout the season. At his best he is combative, hard-working and can cover the ground but he is never in a million years going to get close to what Rogic, Christie etc. can do for them.

The manager needs backed by the board to actually pay a transfer fee for a midfield player. I don't think in two windows he has had that pleasure which is disturbing. However the blame must also lie at Gerrard and Allen because they money they have spent (which has not been enough IMO), should have been focused on this problematic area.

This isn't anything new which is the most worrying thing, everyone can see apart from Morelos we literally have no goal threat from open play.
Click to expand...


I hope the manager is reflecting after Saturday’s result in particular and looking who is following his plan and giving value for money.Consistently!

From day one ……after the summer camp the talk coming from the manager was how much trust in particular he was putting on certain players.Some could no wrong in his eyes… and for me that has been a big error!!

Every player has his flaws and it has to be recognized.Credit where credit is due but criticism where that is also due.It seems the modern day footballer can’t seem to handle the latter too well!

There are definitely certain players that seem… to have ‘carte blanche’ when it comes performances don’t get criticized going by the number of appearances no matter what they offer and get games ahead of others no matter what!!

I hate to see this and always feel that this can’t be good for morale.
No one should be above criticism …and I mean no one.

I’m still not totally convinced SG is handling Morelos correctly.
I can fully understand why he is doing what he is doing … but I just can’t believe somebody like Wattie or Big Jock Wallace would handle it differently.
I think if Morelos did half on these indisciplne things with either of them in charge he would get the rocket!
Probably because indiscipline can only lead to suspension which can’t possibly help the team.And if your main man is missing because of this… whether it’s justified or unjustified… surely it’s quite natural to assume that the team would struggle without him!
It seems like Gerrard has built the team and systems completely around Morelos …which would be fine if he played every game but as we all know he doesn’t …and when he doesn’t it seems like the players don’t know how to play or are not comfortable playing any other system.
It seems a little irresponsible to build your whole team around one player because from the outside lookg in…this maybe the case.

Also it seems Morelos himself is incapable of playing with somebody else up front.
So many have been tried and failed. Miller Windass Eduardo? Sadiq Lafferty and now it seems even Defoe.No one can seem to form any partnership with Morelos.
Now is it because Morelos can’t … or …just doesn’t want to?

Either way it will all change when he will mostly likely moves on for big bucks in the summer.
It will be interesting to see whether Gerrard then tries to buy two and form a partnership or find a willing partner for Defoe.A ‘Mark Hateley’ type. Someone willing to be a foil and create chances for others!
I rather doubt Ally would have got have as many without Big Mark creating so many for him!

I hope also in reflection that the reason why most are saying the league is over is due to the number of stupid points we lost especially away from home in the first part of the season.You just can’t lose that many and not be expecting to climb a mountain after the winter break.It just doesn’t work.

Truthfully apart from the first half against ‘The Sheep’ …the players havent kicked their own arses in all honesty.
Performances have been well below par and instead of kicking on from the result on the 29th some have downed tools it seems.Thought they could live off this result and it would all just fall into place!
In fact the result on the 29th or more accurately the furor that happened afterwards has proved detrimental to us challenging to win this league!

Worrall even said we were treated like kings when we won on the 29th and could do no wrong.Yes you were Joe but if you go and put in the type of performance you put in in the first game back against Killie …then that just undo’s everything kills momemtum …stone dead!
That’s what happens when you play for this club Joe!
You can’t have it both ways!

And get it goes back to what I said at the beginning.
The same players continue to play and play below par …consistently.Where others are chomping at the bit and don’t get a sniff!

Slightly baffling!

But if as Gerrard has said that certain players have played too many games already and for some this fact is hard to argue against …then its defintely time to rest these players and give certain others a decent run.
If the league is over as many assume then we don’t have much to lose anymore do we?

Who knows… we might all be pleasantly surprised!!
 
rossgers said:
Good post. These guys all need to reach double figures. We should be expectinf Ryan Jack or McCrorie to get 5 or 6 from DM also and 4 or 5 from each centre back at set pieces.
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Reallly?? Fs! In John terrys 19 years he only scored 4+ in a league season on 4 occasions. Ur numbers are well out! Your looking for 22 goals from cb and defensive cm
 
OK, slightly optimistic. But at the moment we are getting nowhere near enough goals from everyone except Alfie.
 
RFC#1Scotty said:
Shoot me down for saying this: Jamie Murphy was the very type who was scoring goals regularly, likewise, I think Jordan Jones offers that as well, he looks the type who is tricky and isn't scared to take a dig. That to me would be an improvement, but it's going to take a wee bit for Murphy to get back up to speed, pre season for that.

You are right though, we need more.
Click to expand...

Not sure about Jordan Jones but you're absolutely correct with regards to Jamie Murphy.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind he'd be our 2nd top scorer just now and easily into double figures in all competitions if he hadn't picked up that injury.

We keep talking about the need for a number 10 but in my opinion, I think eventually we'd have seen Murphy deployed in a central role behind Morelos with Kent wide left and Candeias wide right in our preferred starting lineup once the season settled down and the 'experiments' had been done.
 
90minsofmadness said:
Tav is 4th in the SPFL scoring charts ahead of all Celtic players at the moment.
Click to expand...

He hits the penalties.

Also, the posters point is valid. Look at the goals the rhabids have from midfield and wide compared to ours.

Ignoring the problem doesn’t make it go away.
 
I think Arfield’s link up with Morelos is invaluable for us, so I’d give him a by from criticism. The other two, however, have not been firing on all cylinders. Kent is outstanding at moments, he needs to trust himself more to have a go! DC has been incredibly poor the whole season - nearly every cross is poor, his link up with Tav is getting worse and his composure in the final third is woeful.
 
A poster a while back referred to what Sir Walter used to do and that was get his money on the park. Forget building a big squad spend most of the resources on 12-14 players and if possible players that can play 2 positions.
We have a big enough youth academy that we should be able to rely on one or 2 stepping up in case of injury
 
RFC97 said:
He hits the penalties.

Also, the posters point is valid. Look at the goals the rhabids have from midfield and wide compared to ours.

Ignoring the problem doesn’t make it go away.
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I'm not ignoring the problem but clearly from right back we are over performing in terms of goals, penalties or not.
 
How many goals has their right back scored compared to ours?

Or their central striker?

We have plenty to work on, but it's not as simple as being made out here.
 
Judging players based solely on goals is total basic patter.

Kent in particular affords far more than goals, he offers shape, stretches and occupies defenses which creates space for Morelos.

He can also take the ball up the park often, keeps the ball away from the other team, honeypots and attracts defenders to him which creates space.

He offers loads more than just "goals"
 
RFC4ME said:
Judging players based solely on goals is total basic patter.

Kent in particular affords far more than goals, he offers shape, stretches and occupies defenses which creates space for Morelos.

He can also take the ball up the park often, keeps the ball away from the other team, honeypots and attracts defenders to him which creates space.

He offers loads more than just "goals"
Click to expand...

There's also the devil in the detail.

Sinclair hits penalties and has scored a number of his goals in a small number of games. The latter also applies to Forrest.

You have to look at when goals are scored. How important were they? Did they win a tight match for the team, or equalise and turn defeat into better?

It's a nuanced debate being over-simplified.
 
Overall Celtic 60 goals in the Premiership, Rangers 55 goals (not that different)

BTW, Alfie has notched 15 out of the 55 so no less than 40 have come from elsewhere around the team.

Goals themselves are not the problem. It is the creativity to make them against packed defences that we lack and to that end midfield needs addressed and I do think we have missed Jamie Murphy.
 
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