Kris Boyd: Do these guys care?

[deBoersHeader]

So Boyd blames lack of quality in the squad and names a bunch of players, but the forum fights back and drags the topic back to the same as all the other threads.

The glaring omission of certain consistent failures is why everyone is having a go at him.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

The advantage of the attacking fullback is that they are meant to complement the attack whilst being able to get back to deal with any defensive threats. Whilst we have the midfielders tasked with complementing the fullback and forwards are giving limited options which usually forces them to try to have to bring down a long hopeful punt. Having the likes of Boyd wondering why these attackers and midfielders are so inept shows why he is a pundit rather than a manager.

I think Kris Boyd would know far more than you about forwards.
Is it a coincidence that you're back talking about football now we've had shit results, you were nowhere to be seen when we where winning?

 

[brain]

I think he's making a decent enough point but seems to name some yet ignore the abject failings of some others.

The glaring omission of certain consistent failures is why everyone is having a go at himbe

He doesn't seem to agree with the very simplistic “same core” narrative that this forum is obsessed with. It would have been a miracle if a sub-standard squad like ours had maintained perfect form for the full season, that's what Boyd said.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

The glaring omission of certain consistent failures is why everyone is having a go at him.

Seems to be protecting a wee group.of the biggest culprits.

He singles out Cantwell who has not been brilliant but against Ross County you could at least see he was trying.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

Seems to be protecting a wee group.of the biggest culprits.

He singles out Cantwell who has not been brilliant but against Ross County you could at least see he was trying.

We need more than trying, his numbers for a player in his position playing for Rangers are poor.

 

[deBoersHeader]

He doesn't seem to agree with the very simplistic “same core” narrative that this forum is obsessed with. It would have been a miracle if a sub-standard squad like ours had maintained perfect form for the full season, that's what Boyd said.

Leaders inspire and we see the same patterns manager after manager.

It's not a coincidence.

Clement needs to wipe the slate clean.

 

[Calvinist]

GvB got the sack because he couldn't get to grips with Scottish football and a horrendous injury list in central defence, having to play Sands, King and Ben Davies because Goldson was injured.

Beale got himself the sack because he wasted millions of pounds on absolute dross, he was way out of his depth.

Stop rewriting history.

So complete collapses in 5 out of 6 seasons didn’t happen ?

If, as you argue, Tav,Goldson and the rest are not the issue then we have big problems because it would suggest this weak mentality and lack of belief that sterling mentioned runs through every fibre of the club and not restricted to senior players.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

So complete collapses in 5 out of 6 seasons didn’t happen ?

If, as you argue, Tav,Goldson and the rest are not the issue then we have big problems because it would suggest this weak mentality and lack of belief that sterling mentioned runs through every fibre of the club and not restricted to senior players.

So what about GvB and Beale that my reply was about, would you have kept them?

 

[HeyBert]

He fights our corner and is a good pundit but you need to remember he was barley sauntering about the pitch 2 stone over weight during part of his Rangers career

 

[TerryMunro]

I think Kris Boyd would know far more than you about forwards.
Is it a coincidence that you're back talking about football now we've had shit results, you were nowhere to be seen when we where winning?

Boyd has showing in that article why he is a pundit. One of the two main players needing to be shown the door is actually lauded by him, clueless.
If prime Boyd was playing in today’s Rangers team he would be every bit as bad as all the other strikers that have to try to make something out of a Tav or Goldson punt.

 

[Calvinist]

So what about GvB and Beale that my reply was about, would you have kept them?

So what about GvB and Beale that my reply was about, would you have kept them?

I wouldn’t have hired either of them.

But a reliance on the 55 squad and some of the senior pros would cost any manager their job.

 

[skorn]

imo a major problem we have at the back is because we have BOTH Tav & Goldson on that side.

We could carry one of them defensively, but simply not both.


And the point that Boyd makes about the non-shouting leaders is a good one, especially when he mentions:
"Kirk Broadfoot had his critics, but he wore his heart on his sleeve in that jersey and I don’t see enough of that in this team."

It's absolutely true -- it's not just the lack of leadership on the pitch that is shocking, it's the complete couldn't-give-a-flying-f**k attitudes of almost all of them that is incredibly worrying.

 

[HandsomeHead]

He doesn't seem to agree with the very simplistic “same core” narrative that this forum is obsessed with. It would have been a miracle if a sub-standard squad like ours had maintained perfect form for the full season, that's what Boyd said.

But no one seems prepared to question whether the leadership of Tav and Goldson over the years is delivering enough success?

Nobody is prepared to look at them as the only two common denominators from our previous title race collapses and ask if perhaps its time for them to move on too?

I’ve already said elsewhere that our problems are more complex than just replacing Tav and Goldson, but they are undoubtedly part of the problem and for Boyd to avoid pointing the finger at them alongside his easier targets devalues the general point he’s trying to make.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

If we look at the players he names, Boyd isn't saying anything different to what we all are.

Cantwell isn't good enough, flashes of individual brilliance are great to watch, but he can't lift the team when needed.

Lawrence, I've yet to see what he can bring to the table, plays ok when we are playing well, but again, disappears when needed to step up.

Silva, send him back.

Sima, he can play a bit and can turn games.

Dessers, I like his attitude, but less said the better.

Matondo, see Cantwell.

We would be a much better team with a strong leading centre back, take the pressure from Goldson, one who can organise and lead from the back, we slate Goldson, try putting a better player alongside him I believe he would thrive, same with Tav.

Same goes for our midfield, we need a strong leader in there, a spoiler who can break up the play and hold the ball, take the pressure from the defence and allow the other middle players to do the creative part. Ryan Jack can do this, btu can't stay fit, thought we had this with Raskin, but his form has plummeted, maybe he can turn it round given the chance.

Unlike others, I don't feel we are too far away from a team capable of winning the league, we have shown we can compete, however our league chances were lost under Beale, Clement gave us hope, I feel the cup is where our glory lies now, hope I'm wrong.

If we feck up winning this league, which is looking increasingly likely, there will be no glory in winning the SC. It will be scant consolation.

 

[brain]

But no one seems prepared to question whether the leadership of Tav and Goldson over the years is delivering enough success?

Nobody is prepared to look at them as the only two common denominators from our previous title race collapses and ask if perhaps its time for them to move on too?

I’ve already said elsewhere that our problems are more complex than just replacing Tav and Goldson, but they are undoubtedly part of the problem and for Boyd to avoid pointing the finger at them alongside his easier targets devalues the general point he’s trying to make.

It's an association fallacy for me and no more. There is no “same core” and to pin this on 2/3 players is mental. Godson wasn't playing when we blew it last year, Tav wasn’t playing when we blew it in 19/20. Their absence on both occasions was seen a key factor. Not to mention failings of the managers.
Edit - just to be clear, Goldson’s form has clearly dipped alarmingly this season. That's not a very recent thing.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

I wouldn’t have hired either of them.

But a reliance on the 55 squad and some of the senior pros would cost any manager their job.

Maybe the common denominator since Gerrard left is hiring shit managers if you wouldn't have hired them?

We're down to Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic, who is leaving, if 3 players are at fault i wonder what the %^*& the other 8 are doing then?

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

Boyd has showing in that article why he is a pundit. One of the two main players needing to be shown the door is actually lauded by him, clueless.
If prime Boyd was playing in today’s Rangers team he would be every bit as bad as all the other strikers that have to try to make something out of a Tav or Goldson punt.

Terry stop talking absolute nonsense, prime Boyd would be on at leat 30 goals in that team, Dessers passes up so many sitters it's unbelievable.

 

[TerryMunro]

Terry stop talking absolute nonsense, prime Boyd would be on at leat 30 goals in that team, Dessers passes up so many sitters it's unbelievable.

I don’t think that. Boyd would be as inept as all the other strikers in a Tavernier orientated team.

 

[Calvinist]

Maybe the common denominator since Gerrard left is hiring shit managers if you wouldn't have hired them?

We're down to Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic, who is leaving, if 3 players are at fault i wonder what the %^*& the other 8 are doing then?

That’s what it must be then, are you including the current one in your assessment as we are currently watching another shit the bed moment?

 

[Phil'ieve]

He was a fatso when he came back, he can't point to players not caring.

Is boyds career relevent though? He's a rangers fan analysing the current situation saying everything the rest of us are saying. Going back and comparing his career to what he's saying now is just weak.

 

[Phil'ieve]

Maybe the common denominator since Gerrard left is hiring shit managers if you wouldn't have hired them?

We're down to Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic, who is leaving, if 3 players are at fault i wonder what the %^*& the other 8 are doing then?

That's quite a naive look at it mate. Those are the senior players and the leaders. The negativity of their constant failure and bottling at big moments will surely leak out into the rest of the group. It seems you're missing the bigger picture

 

[SDF]

But no one seems prepared to question whether the leadership of Tav and Goldson over the years is delivering enough success?

Nobody is prepared to look at them as the only two common denominators from our previous title race collapses and ask if perhaps its time for them to move on too?

I’ve already said elsewhere that our problems are more complex than just replacing Tav and Goldson, but they are undoubtedly part of the problem and for Boyd to avoid pointing the finger at them alongside his easier targets devalues the general point he’s trying to make.

All the new players in the world this summer won't stop teams actively targeting the right hand side of our defence if we persist with Tav and Goldson there.

We can surround them with as many new players as we like but if opponents keep getting joy down their side because they can no longer do what they once could then we are asking for trouble.

Goldson is half the player he once was. His pace has went, his ability to handle physicality has went and more crucially his confidence has evaporated. He doesn't even have the heart to point the finger of blame elsewhere like he usually does anymore.

 

[HandsomeHead]

It's an association fallacy for me and no more. There is no “same core” and to pin this on 2/3 players is mental. Godson wasn't playing when we blew it last year, Tav wasn’t playing when we blew it in 19/20. Their absence on both occasions was seen a key factor. Not to mention failings of the managers.
Edit - just to be clear, Goldson’s form has clearly dipped alarmingly this season. That's not a very recent thing.

No, I agree with that and have said so repeatedly over the past few days, but both of these players are part of the issue (I even stuck that in bold previously to try and fend off repeating myself on this again), which I think has become undeniable.

We’re not getting the type of onfield leadership from these two that we need. You can see it quite visibly during games where there’s little or no encouragement from either, just exasperated expressions and finger pointing.

Both have been excellent servants to the club, but it’s time to reset and build a completely new core.

If that requires time to reach fruition, so be it, but it simply has to happen otherwise I completely believe we’ll be in this boat again twelve months from now.

 

[Phil'ieve]

Everything Boydy has said there has also been posted on here by FF posters every day since the old firm game with 99% of posters agreeing with it. But an ex player says it and suddenly most posters are disagreeing with it and comparing his playing career to his opinions (that we actually mostly all agree with) for the sake of jumping on the 'ex player being a pr!ck' bandwagon. Same as Barry gets aswell..

It's weak, and their playing career isn't relevent as they're writing all this as fans not as current players. With all due respect some people on here really need to grow up when it comes to this.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

We need more than trying, his numbers for a player in his position playing for Rangers are poor.

Didn't say they were good.

He wouldn't be one of the first I'd be slating anyway.

The Celtic first half he wasn't even on the pitch yet Tav, Goldson, Lundstram all escape yet have been rank As have Silva, Dessers, Lawrence, Barisic, Souttar and probably more.

The senior players and so called leaders are getting a free pass from him which is strange and whilst we know Matondos limitations he's been out injured then far from the worst recently with fine goals v Hibs and the beggars.

There's something not right but don't think Boyd nails the cause completely albeit his main point is probably correct but some of the individuals he's calling out whilst leaving out some of the serial lovers and big earners needs raised. Some of them his mates or something?

 

[deBoersHeader]

All the new players in the world this summer won't stop teams actively targeting the right hand side of our defence if we persist with Tav and Goldson there.

We can surround them with as many new players as we like but if opponents keep getting joy down their side because they can no longer do what they once could then we are asking for trouble.

Goldson is half the player he once was. His pace has went, his ability to handle physicality has went and more crucially his confidence has evaporated. He doesn't even have the heart to point the finger of blame elsewhere like he usually does anymore.

The Motherwell defeat was more than enough proof of that. Bair destroyed him that day.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

That's quite a naive look at it mate. Those are the senior players and the leaders. The negativity of their constant failure and bottling at big moments will surely leak out into the rest of the group. It seems you're missing the bigger picture

Maybe you and your simplistic view is missing the bigger picture, it can be a combination of many things, not just 'shitebags'.
If Tavernier was such a bottler, do you think he'd step up and hit pressure penalties continuously?

 

[SDF]

The Motherwell defeat was more than enough proof of that. Bair destroyed him that day.

He's always struggled with big awkward strikers but he was never this weak looking against them. Miovski has battered him twice now and Bair just physically dominated him for 90 minutes

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I do laugh at Boyd doing a bit of tough talking and then aiming his anger at five of the easiest targets possible. Going after a sub in the last 4 games and who has scored two goals ? What's the point in that ?

Not a single word about Tav, Goldson or Lundstram or the lack of leadership stemming from them. Not a single word about how Tav and Goldson are the two constants in the 5 collapses in 6 seasons. Not a single word about the poor decisions, including waiting too late to make subs, Clement has made in the last three games.

That's the biggest insult to anyone who watches us regularly.

Those three have been rotten, so called leaders who do anything but yet he takes a swipe at others, some of whom have been subs or contributed something.

Lawrence has offered next to nothing recently. Goldson looks done. Lundstram is back to towing a heavily laden caravan and there's Tavs horror first half v Celtic omitted by Boyd.

Blaming Matondo and Cantwell is questionable. Not that they've been brilliant but there are bigger and far more obvious culprits and serial losers

 

[sh3lldon]

Kris Boyd played alongside a higher quality of footballer in relation to what Celtic had at the time.

There ends the point.

So what is anything he says wrong? he maybe missed a few names that could easily be added thats about it

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

That’s what it must be then, are you including the current one in your assessment as we are currently watching another shit the bed moment?

It can be a combination of things.

I was unsure of Clement at the start, but he won me over....but the last few team selections have been baffling, he seems to have a total disregard for a functional midfield.
He stumbled upon Sterling being a good option in midfield through lack of numbers, Sterling added physicality, power and pace to that area, something we lack, he plays him at left back throwing our balance to %^*&.

 

[SC81]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sp...vie-kris-boyd-five-rangers-stars-embarrassed/

May be reading too much into the first half of the article, but Boyd sound certain about the level of change we may see in the summer.

Stops short of naming names, but sums it up fairly well for a change.

It will have been said before but Boyd was a fucking disgrace when he came back to us.

Kevin Kyle level of fat bastardish.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

I don’t think that. Boyd would be as inept as all the other strikers in a Tavernier orientated team.

Prime Boyd would be on 30+

 

[Calvinist]

It can be a combination of things.

I was unsure of Clement at the start, but he won me over....but the last few team selections have been baffling, he seems to have a total disregard for a functional midfield.
He stumbled upon Sterling being a good option in midfield through lack of numbers, Sterling added physicality, power and pace to that area, something we lack, he plays him at left back throwing our balance to %^*&.

He’s got no option but to play him there unless he changes it to a back 3. Yilmaz is out and Borna has completely checked out and cannot be trusted, playing him at the piggery would be suicide.

Where do you think the lack of belief that sterling referenced comes from ?

Can you imagine previous captains of rangers allowing that mentality to surface when we are 3 points behind 1st place .

This where the senior players need to earn their money, time will tell on the playing front whether they have done that.

 

[SaulBearenson]

The players have brought it on themselves.

How so? By not winning they don't deserve our support?

The entitlement is unreal.

 

[SaulBearenson]

You really are a wee fanboy aren’t you

Isn't this supposed to be a Rangers supporters board? And someone is being criticised for (checks notes) supporting the team?

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

He’s got no option but to play him there unless he changes it to a back 3. Yilmaz is out and Borna has completely checked out and cannot be trusted, playing him at the piggery would be suicide.

Where do you think the lack of belief that sterling referenced comes from ?

Can you imagine previous captains of rangers allowing that mentality to surface when we are 3 points behind 1st place .

This where the senior players need to earn their money, time will tell on the playing front whether they have done that.

You play a left footer at LB, he played Davies there earlier this season, Fraser, Yfeko.
Upsetting the balance of the team playing Sterling there while depriving it of much needed power, pace and physicality in the midfield, but he can do no wrong.

What comfort blanket are you going to cling to when the old guard are gone and we're still not winning titles, will you admit that it might actually be down to quality of players?

 

[Wilso54]

Boyd has a job like we all do but he is 100% one of us like we all are. As much as winning the league would be what we all want watching boyd ram it down suttons throat would be as good in the studio as on the pitch.

He calls us out when we are shite and backs us 100% otherwise I struggle to see how anyone of us has a problem with boyd the pundit

While I cannae be arsed with the drama shit scottish football has seemed to become, he is the only pundit we have that doesn't hide in sticking up for Rangers.

 

[Manuel]

Agree. There was a guy on here the other day saying we need 17 out and 17 in. We need about 4 new players and a few out

This is a chance to finally get the squad numbers down while slashing the wage bill.

 

[SaulBearenson]

Any Rangers team worth it's salt would have ensured those bastards were turned over at Ibrox 2 weeks ago by any means possible.

As usual the current lot shit the bed and feel sorry for themselves.

Zero leadership after a setback and it has to end in the summer.

Under Walter Smith we went 3 seasons without beating them at Ibrox.

93/94, 94/95, 95/96

Advocaat failed in 98/99 & 01/02 (2nd home game was McLeish)

McLeish lost to them 5 times in 03/04

Walter 2nd time round couldn't beat them at Ibrox in 10/11.

I presume they also weren't Rangers teams worth their salt? I mean, that was your criteria.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

You play a left footer at LB, he played Davies there earlier this season, Fraser, Yfeko.
Upsetting the balance of the team playing Sterling there while depriving it of much needed power, pace and physicality in the midfield, but he can do no wrong.

What comfort blanket are you going to cling to when the old guard are gone and we're still not winning titles, will you admit that it might actually be down to quality of players?

There's guys playing out of position all over the team quite ridiculously.

Lawrence and Dowell ain't proper midfielders, especially in a 2. Souttar not a left sided centre back, Silva not a left winger, Sterling not a left back, left wing, right wing and only ended up centre mid by default and it worked and there he should stay ( shows that players in different roles might work but doesn't always)

Barisic been awful and Yilmaz being out hasn't helped but I'd have played a kid a left back and Sterling in midfield.

Truth of it all is our squad is crap. Summer signings apart from Butland and Sterling grim and how Phil got us top and looking half decent with that bunch is a miracle. But why didn't it last?

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

There's guys playing out of position all over the team quite ridiculously.

Lawrence and Dowell ain't proper midfielders, especially in a 2. Souttar not a left sided centre back, Silva not a left winger, Sterling not a left back, left wing, right wing and only ended up centre mid by default and it worked and there he should stay ( shows that players in different roles might work but doesn't always)

Barisic been awful and Yilmaz being out hasn't helped but I'd have played a kid a left back and Sterling in midfield.

Truth of it all is our squad is crap. Summer signings apart from Butland and Sterling grim and how Phil got us top and looking half decent with that bunch is a miracle. But why didn't it last?

Against Ross County, Lundstram, Dowell and Cantwell started in midfield, why?
They played through us so easily, 2 passes and they're on the edge of our box, midfield not tracking runners, defence all over the shop.....in saying all that, game should have been done at HT, Dessers x2, Cantwell x 1, sitters missed.

Dundee i think was worse, Sima probably should have scored first half, but it was a horrendous performance.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

Isn't this supposed to be a Rangers supporters board? And someone is being criticised for (checks notes) supporting the team?

I've seen that labelled at quite a few on here, it's pathetic.
Yesterday someone who was arguing it's not all Tavernier's fault was called a teenager, the guy replied he was 66 yrs old.

 

[Zoso10]

You know what.i hate these cryptic messages.Have some balls name names or shut the fvck up.by the way I'm not talking about the op

Would you come out and name players?
It would be silly to. Sometimes in your job you have to be more diplomatic.

 

[RAFBob]

You know what.i hate these cryptic messages.Have some balls name names or shut the fvck up.by the way I'm not talking about the op

There's an awful lot of names in the article mate, give it a read.

 

[SaulBearenson]

I've seen that labelled at quite a few on here, it's pathetic.
Yesterday someone who was arguing it's not all Tavernier's fault was called a teenager, the guy replied he was 66 yrs old.

It's just lazy arguments from people who can't actually defend their position (irony?) so resort to personal attacks on the person disagreeing.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Greig winning 3 domestic trophies in a decade can't be compared to Tav winning 3 domestic trophies* (cause we don't count the championship or petrofac as trophies we have won) in 9 years. The argument so far seems to be "that's just ridiculous" and "Celtic were dead good".

 

[VMS]

He was a discrace in his last stint for us then next season scores something like 16 playing up font on his own for a shite Killie team

 

[SaulBearenson]

I've seen that labelled at quite a few on here, it's pathetic.
Yesterday someone who was arguing it's not all Tavernier's fault was called a teenager, the guy replied he was 66 yrs old.

Though hardly surprising. I got a ban during the Kilmarnock game when the team were getting called shitebags for suggesting that it was perhaps the supporters who were shitebags and to get behind the team cause matches last 90 minutes, not 45. It's almost like supporting the team is forbidden unless we're winning.

 

[DBallZ]

The 1st few months of Clement spell for the Tav haters must have been a nightmare for them.

1 bad bit of form and there all back with a vengeance can’t wait to say “ told you so”

Six months ago mate, come on now.

 

[brain]

No, I agree with that and have said so repeatedly over the past few days, but both of these players are part of the issue (I even stuck that in bold previously to try and fend off repeating myself on this again), which I think has become undeniable.

We’re not getting the type of onfield leadership from these two that we need. You can see it quite visibly during games where there’s little or no encouragement from either, just exasperated expressions and finger pointing.

Both have been excellent servants to the club, but it’s time to reset and build a completely new core.

If that requires time to reach fruition, so be it, but it simply has to happen otherwise I completely believe we’ll be in this boat again twelve months from now.

I think player quality is the issue rather than leadership. It would certainly help to have leaders throughout the squad, but we don't. I don't see the leadership of those two are very relevant to our recent lack of form. Goldson’s decline in ability is more relevant than his leadership. Our tactics and team structure have been very alarming and far more relevant than the leadership of either player.