Lack of subs tonight

jimbear

Well-Known Member
Imo the decision making side of when to put on the subs is possibly the one flaw that Gerrard has in his make up. In saying that I can appreciate that if you make a sub and things go wrong (and I'm speaking from direct experience in the amateur game) then you will then be asked why you made the sub.
 

Graemeh89

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Benfica looked one of the fittest teams I’ve seen us play in a while , that’s the difference at the top level in Europe not just quality of players but top fitness levels. We matched them the whole game but ran out of gas a bit towards the end.
 

Atheist Bear

Well-Known Member
Could it be that Gerrard was trying to toughen the players up by making them play the full 90. With that kind of workout they'll steamroll domestic teams, just like what happened after the last benfica game.
 

jdm1873

Well-Known Member
Bassey, Helander, Hagi, Itten, Barker, Stewart, Barjonas, Dickson, King

Who out of that stops the midfield being completely overran the last 20 minutes? We could bring Helander on for a forward but that just invites more pressure.

I don't think any of that bench helps tonight. Midfield injuries cost us tonight unfortunately.
 

Angrybluebear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Okay, but would Itten or Bassey or Helander have done the job in midfield?

We were going to freshen it up immediately before they scored their first. The game was changing we were running on empty. It was obvious.

Itten Barker and Hagi were all coming on.

As soon as they scored it should have been Helander on hold what we have crowd the box. Break up play with the next sub Barker for Roofe, as soon as Barker is on their defence is sitting deeper not pushed up to the halfway line.

The two goals we conceded were sloppy goals down to tiredness. Players not staying goalside.

For the second game in a row they have made full use of their subs and came from two down on both occasions.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
I remember at Rugby Park we brought on Balogun as a 3rd centre back when we were hanging on so they wouldn't play through us.

We should have done that in Benfica when they made it 3-2.

And we should have done it tonight at 2-1.

Kent was out on his feet, the team had put in a monumental effort and we were getting more and more tired. Go 5-3-2 and cut down the spaces in our box they could exploit.

It's not a bad result, they are a very good team, and so are we. But it's bloody frustrating to have failed to see it out twice like this.

Maybe tomorrow I'll be more positive!
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
The game was screaming out for some changes.

I don't want to be too critical because we've been immense this season, but our lack of subs in Europe since Gerrard became manager is a pain in the arse.

Even in his early days we'd often wait til around the 80th minute before making a sub when it was blatantly obvious the team were tiring.
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
Fresh legs would have helped but who would you bring on? The only sub that might have helped was Helander. However, he could just as easily have ended up a liability if we hadn’t practiced 3 at the back. I suppose he could have sat in front of the back four but it was really in midfield that we needed some energy. We had no midfielders on the bench that could help and Alfie and Roofe were both having great games up front.
 

Mr_Miscellaneous

Well-Known Member
Barker might have helped, but if he went on and it went the same way then I think pitchforks and torches would be out instead of "ah well, decent result but should've used subs".
 

GF7

Well-Known Member
Our front 3 were a constant threat thought the 90 and we had no real depth to change the midfield.

Hagi was probably our only real option from the bench tonight and I don't think this was a game for him as he is a match winner not one to shore up when ahead. Helander coming on would have just invited them on to us
 

CaptainObjective

Well-Known Member
40 matches were played this week in European competition. Gerrard was the only manager not to use at least one substitution. It's awful and a major flaw in his managerial ability at the moment.
 

Woodrow Call

Well-Known Member
We should not be asking Davis to do a full 90 against anyone never mind Benfica. They were a good team with a great press. Stevie is old and was phucked. If he starts he should be subbed at 70 and nursed through the season to deliver the title. Ok he's getting a rest this weekend but he should not have been asked to do that tonight.
 

Disco Down

Active Member
Barker for Kent would have been a like for like change. If a midfielder was available (Jack, Zungu, Aribo) then one of them would have been on for Roofe or Morelos.
 

Remo-town

Well-Known Member
40 matches were played this week in European competition. Gerrard was the only manager not to use at least one substitution. It's awful and a major flaw in his managerial ability at the moment.
Let's bring in sam Allardyce then.

Honestly, some on here seem to think we're up there with the top european teams.

We're punching well above our weight, maybe something you would do well to remember.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
This has been a great read. So in summary, the boss doesn’t make mistakes, subs aren’t there to be used when you’re playing a good side, none of them could have offered fresh legs when we had players who were gassed and everyone should sit down and accept nothing could have been done and that’s it. Quality.
 

Albertz Loyal

Well-Known Member
It's another strange one, we are getting so much right just now, but a few fresh legs could have helped. Hagi I think would have been one especially, giving us another option and a bit of magic.

I think with an easy game at the weekend, he rest the players then
 

ChildOfGod

Well-Known Member
Have to say my mind was saying look for helander and barker , helander to stifle central defensive area and barker as a quicker counter attack .
Helander would be lhs CD and balogun could be either central sweeper or slightly advanced in the Davis area .

both on for one each of the front three - take your pick who stays the 90 but for me It would have been Kent again because of pace but I accept the counter point of the ball into feet and hold-up presence of the other two so maybe that is valid .

all guesswork on what impact it would have had but something like that occurred to me at the time and if u need WhatsApp evidence PM me lol

still happy with the team and there commitment impossible to be critical .
 
Last edited:

CaptainObjective

Well-Known Member
Let's bring in sam Allardyce then.

Honestly, some on here seem to think we're up there with the top european teams.

We're punching well above our weight, maybe something you would do well to remember.

This has nothing to do with where we are as a team or a club even. The argument is that more often than not, Gerrard is not using substitutions effectively in games. I went back another round of fixtures of Champions League and Europa League matches. Make that once in 80 matches has a manager failed to make a single substitution in a game. You have to wonder just how far that run stretches. It's a bit of a tedious process to find out but it would not shock me if it went back several hundreds of games. It's bizarre why he did not make a change tonight given the amount of running we had to do within the game.

Gerrard has transformed us and built us into a very decent team but his use of substitutions or lack of them is no doubt his biggest weakness. Jorge Jesus made substitutions in both games against us and on both occasions they had a meaningful impact on the game which saved them from two defeats.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
We were going to freshen it up immediately before they scored their first. The game was changing we were running on empty. It was obvious.

Itten Barker and Hagi were all coming on.

As soon as they scored it should have been Helander on hold what we have crowd the box. Break up play with the next sub Barker for Roofe, as soon as Barker is on their defence is sitting deeper not pushed up to the halfway line.

The two goals we conceded were sloppy goals down to tiredness. Players not staying goalside.

For the second game in a row they have made full use of their subs and came from two down on both occasions.
Sounds great.
Is it really that simple?
I mean, what if we make the first sub and lose a goal before the second sub gets on?
Should we have put Barker on first and give them a fast forward to deal with?
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
I remember at Rugby Park we brought on Balogun as a 3rd centre back when we were hanging on so they wouldn't play through us.

We should have done that in Benfica when they made it 3-2.

And we should have done it tonight at 2-1.

Kent was out on his feet, the team had put in a monumental effort and we were getting more and more tired. Go 5-3-2 and cut down the spaces in our box they could exploit.

It's not a bad result, they are a very good team, and so are we. But it's bloody frustrating to have failed to see it out twice like this.

Maybe tomorrow I'll be more positive!
I don’t think playing through us was ever likely to happen.
It was the high ball approach that, in my opinion, Balogun was brought on to defend.
Benfica weren’t likely to punt ball after ball into the box.
 

Cooperfan

Well-Known Member
Benfica players ALL got rested last weekend so they were fresh. Hindsight is a great thing but after they scored their first I'd have liked to have seen Helander on to bolster the defence at the expense of a striker.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
You really don’t need the benefit of hindsight to see that we needed fresh legs and that could have helped relieve the pressure and prevent 1 or perhaps even both goals.
 

RSEA

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Didn’t think we really had the subs available for were we needed change, it was our midfield 3 who tired but we didn’t really have an option off the bench for there

At 2-1
Kent or roofe off
Drop the remaining one into midfield
Have alfie up on his todd
Bring on the viking to play 5 at the back
 

CooperTrueBlue

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Tiresome reading this stuff from the OP. Other than bringing Helander / Bassey on, what could SG have done? Stewart for Morelos? Barker for Roofe? Barjonas for Kamara/Davis? Played a very good and very expensive team that were probably a bit too good for us tonight.

Why is it tiresome?

The replies in the main here are suggesting that our bench is weak as nobody from it would've made a difference
 

Renoranger

Well-Known Member
Couldn’t believe we didn’t even waste time with a few subs

Crying out for hellander to come on
This is a problem with SG, and could have backfired big-time on him. Fresh legs, using up time was obvious the right tactic. I can't believe he didn't react.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
This is a problem with SG, and could have backfired big-time on him. Fresh legs, using up time was obvious the right tactic. I can't believe he didn't react.
Why do you think he didn’t?
He must have had a reason.
If so many can see it, why can’t he?
Not just Gerrard but all the back room team?
 

Renoranger

Well-Known Member
Why do you think he didn’t?
He must have had a reason.
If so many can see it, why can’t he?
Not just Gerrard but all the back room team?
I don't know why he didn't, but a few players were spent. It's as if he is so engrossed that he loses track of time.
I would have liked to have seen a few changes.
 

ibrox1975

Well-Known Member
I thought the same then I looked at who was on the bench and thought “do they make us stronger?”
I didn’t think they did.
Leaving Defoe out the Euro squad was a mistake in my opinion
Itten needs domestic game time before unleashing him Ingo European football
 

Installer

Well-Known Member
It still baffles me why Dave King never looked at FF when he was looking for the new management team.

We'd be heading for our third treble by now.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
I don't know why he didn't, but a few players were spent. It's as if he is so engrossed that he loses track of time.
I would have liked to have seen a few changes.
This was obviously transmitted to Beale, Gary Mac, Culshaw and the players.
 

brain

Well-Known Member
You really don’t need the benefit of hindsight to see that we needed fresh legs and that could have helped relieve the pressure and prevent 1 or perhaps even both goals.
Same old on here. Some people just can’t accept that an after match criticism is not hindsight and it’s not just people looking for an excuse to have a pop.
 
Top