Northhiglander
Well-Known Member
Think it would only be decent to offer Shane Duffy one.
Just goes to show, 10 appearances in the League and 2 goals according to Transfermarkt. Albeit one was of 1 minute and another of 2 minutes.I doubt Brandon Barker played in 10 games, but he contributed at an important time in the season and started the win at Parkhead.
In an era of squads that are required to be registered to play, that's an absolute farce, but then again it is Scotland.This has come up loads of times now. They need 10 appearances.
The SPFL present 25 medals for players AND staff. The Club can purchase additional medals if they choose. However, medals may only be presented to those players who meet the 25%/10 games criteria. I think its in the SPFL Rules, Rule C39 from memory.
McLaughlin will make it. Scott Wright might make it. Bassey and Patterson probably won't make it if they are cited.
C39 The Company shall present to the Champion Club of the League 25 League Championship Medals for Players, other staff and Officials. Additional League Championship Medals may be purchased from the Company with the prior consent of the Board. Only those Players who participated in 25% or more of the League Matches for the Champion Club in the relevant Season will be eligible to receive such medals.
As far as I'm aware we don't register squads in Scotland, unlike the EPL with their 25 man squads. Nevertheless in the EPL, despite the squad registration, they get 40 medals to distribute to players and staff. Only those players who have 5 or more appearances are guaranteed a medal. In England you cannot order more medals unless you have more than 39 players who all meet the 5 game minimum criteria.In an era of squads that are required to be registered to play, that's an absolute farce, but then again it is Scotland.
Maybe I am too generous, but I think that if you make a single appearance then you have contributed to the squad that has won the title.
I think the EPL figure of 5 appearances is more realistic as well, as is their increased number of medals subject to meeting that criteria.The 10 games rule is definitely nonsense.
Imagine hypothetically you played the final 9 games of the season, scored a hat trick in every one and it won your team the league...
Personally I think 5 is probably fair although it could be argued that anyone who has played has contributed.
In this case would Andy Firth be staff? Not anywhere near a first team game in all honesty and Is only there to warm the goalies pre match.Fairly simple matter for the club to maje sure thay acquire enough medals for everyone who qualifies, paid for or otherwise.
Also when we are mathematically there the club can give game tine (even late substitution) to anyone who is able to reach the qualifying threshold.
IMO anyone who has contributed in any way to this title is good value for a medal.
I noted a post saying medals were for players and staff. Which staff are eligible and how do they qualify? Anybody know?
Imagine your team needing to win the last game of the season for the title. You make your debut and score the only goal to clinch the title. No medal. Seems fair.As far as I'm aware we don't register squads in Scotland, unlike the EPL with their 25 man squads. Nevertheless in the EPL, despite the squad registration, they get 40 medals to distribute to players and staff. Only those players who have 5 or more appearances are eligible for a medal. In England you cannot order more medals unless you have more than 39 players who all meet the 5 game minimum criteria.
I’d forfeit a medal just so he could get one, I absolutely love the guyIn this case would Andy Firth be staff? Not anywhere near a first team game in all honesty and Is only there to warm the goalies pre match.
Yup, I get the guy coming on and scoring the winner in his only appearance of the season. To counteract that there is the guy who comes on in one game, for the last 2 minutes to kill time, does nothing of note and never makes another appearance for the Club at any point. Does that player merit a medal? Does that player think he deserves a medal?Imagine your team needing to win the last game of the season for the title. You make your debut and score the only goal to clinch the title. No medal. Seems fair.
I get you are just providing the reality of the different rules but for me, if there's a squad to pick from, then you get a medal if you are in that squad. The way I'm reading the Scottish rule, Rangers could buy a medal for the tea lady or the janitor but could never award Paterson a medal. Yet he probably appeared in the matchday squad 98% of the games.
I think the EPL figure of 5 appearances is more realistic as well, as is their increased number of medals subject to meeting that criteria.
I don't agree simply being part of the squad - what's the definition of 'squad' anyway? - or making a 2 minute appearance in a 3420 minute season is sufficient though.
Touched on your second para earlier mate. I agree, its not crystal clear, however to say the 25% rule only applies to additional medals, for me, doesn't make any logical sense.Being part of a matchday squad should count as participation in a match, at the very least. I doubt it does.
Rule isn't very clear about whether the "must participate" part is applicable only to the additional medals or whether it also means the 25 given to the club.
This is where it gets difficult.I think the EPL figure of 5 appearances is more realistic as well, as is their increased number of medals subject to meeting that criteria.
I don't agree simply being part of the squad - what's the definition of 'squad' anyway? - or making a 2 minute appearance in a 3420 minute season is sufficient though.
Yup, I get the guy coming on and scoring the winner in his only appearance of the season. To counteract that there is the guy who comes on in one game, for the last 2 minutes to kill time, does nothing of note and never makes another appearance for the Club at any point. Does that player merit a medal? Does that player think he deserves a medal?
Again, you mention 'squad'. What's your definition of 'squad'? Anyone who trains with the First Team, including the many youngsters who do so but never get near a sniff of an appearance? Anybody who makes the bench? Anybody who makes it onto the pitch?
5 appearances, on the pitch, for me is sufficient. If the club's want that then they can easily make the change. As far as I'm aware its not even been a topic for discussion.
Ha ha, I get your point but, since we are now talking Cup competitions - what if Rangers had gone on to win the League Cup instead of getting humped out by St Mirren. Middleton wouldn't have played for us in the final, having gone on loan, but contributed to the win over Falkirk. Same with some of the other youngsters from that night. Had we won it then, arguably, they 'contributed' to the win - but in an earlier round. Medals? Never even gets discussed but its the same point.A player can be an unused sub in a final and gets a winners medal, might not have played a single minute in the tournament, but gets his medal. But a player could have played 7 or 8 league games and doesn't get one. Doesn't seem right.
For me if a player has made an appearance in a game he gets a medal.
40 medals in the EPL as well - for combined players and staff - but with a stipulation of players having made 5 appearances. They don't allow the purchase of additional medals unless you have more than 39 players who meet the 5 games criteria.
Not sure I agree with giving one to everyone in the 'squad'. You then need a definition of 'squad'. Plenty youngsters have trained with the First Team squad, and been given lockers with the First Team squad, but are nowhere near an appearance. Do you give them a medal? Not for me, as it I feel it devalues the medal. I'm not sure most of them would feel they deserve it either. I think you have to put a minimum number of appearances in the criteria - as in taking to the pitch.
I wouldn't disagree with that. Back-up goalkeeper being the classic example. It gets complex though when it's somebody who just doesn't, and won't, contribute. Arguably the half-way point would be classing making the bench as an 'appearance'. However, the SPFL definition of 'appear' is as follows:I think 10 matchday squad appearances should be all that's needed. if you're on the bench, regardless of whether you get on or not then you are heavily involved and part of things. Patterson for example this year has been part of pretty much every squad, 100 % part of the first team but plays in a specialised position which just so happens to have our captain infront of him in. Very harsh not to give him a medal.
Guess it will be appearance basedJust to expand on a point raised earlier. SPFL Rule C39 (quoted on Page 1) states you have to 'participate in' 25% (10) League games or more in order to be eligible for a medal. Their Glossary of Terms gives a definition of 'appear/appearances' but does not give one for 'participate/participated'. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that 'participating in' and 'appearing in' will be the same thing.
So, does anybody know how they define 'participated in'? Is it taking the field (an 'appearance')? Is it making the bench? Is it simply training with the First Team (unlikely)?
@rangeral is the 'go to' man for this sort of stuff but I suspect even he won't know for sure.
Lol. True enough but. Simple vote in the SPFL? Not happened yet.Ha ha, I get your point but, since we are now talking Cup competitions - what if Rangers had gone on to win the League Cup instead of getting humped out by St Mirren. Middleton wouldn't have played for us in the final, having gone on loan, but contributed to the win over Falkirk. Same with some of the other youngsters from that night. Had we won it then, arguably, they 'contributed' to the win - but in an earlier round. Medals? Never even gets discussed but its the same point.
If the answer is 'give them a medal' then we very rapidly get to the point where medals are dished out like confetti and their 'value' diminishes.
You have to set a criteria for League appearances - be it 5, 10 or whatever - and stick to that. If the clubs want it changed because they think 10 appearances is unfair, due to being too many (and I'd agree with that), then they should change it. Simple vote.
In the EPL it is clearly stated as 'appearances'. If you only have 15 players who've made the 5 appearances though, its then up to the club to decide who gets the additional medals..I know in England if you are on the bench, then you are considered as have participated.
See Richard Wright at City for example etc.
Does the bold bit refer to all the medals or only those ordered as 'extra'?C39 The Company shall present to the Champion Club of the League 25 League Championship Medals for Players, other staff and Officials. Additional League Championship Medals may be purchased from the Company with the prior consent of the Board. Only those Players who participated in 25% or more of the League Matches for the Champion Club in the relevant Season will be eligible to receive such medals.
Your guess is a as good as mine. I agree its ambiguous - as is the use of 'participated in' rather than 'appeared in' - but I see no logic in applying the 25% criteria only to additional medals. Its the SPFL though.Does the bold bit refer to all the medals or only those ordered as 'extra'?
I imagine staff to be the coaches, sport scientists, medical people, physios, etc but I wondered what the criteria would be for any of them to get a medal.In this case would Andy Firth be staff? Not anywhere near a first team game in all honesty and Is only there to warm the goalies pre match.
I remember back in 1975,the iconic images of Colin Stein slamming in that header at Easter Road. The goal that won the league,but I believe Colin never received a medal .A player can be an unused sub in a final and gets a winners medal, might not have played a single minute in the tournament, but gets his medal. But a player could have played 7 or 8 league games and doesn't get one. Doesn't seem right.
For me if a player has made an appearance in a game he gets a medal.
I think the idea is that the Club distribute the medals to players who meet the 'participated in' criteria and its then left to the Club to decide who on the staff gets a medal. They can even ask to purchase additional medals for non-playing staff. For example, if we had 20 players who met the 25% criteria it only leaves 5 other medals for staff. The Club might want to reward Gerrard and 9 of his staff with a medal so they would need to seek permission to order an extra 5. No criteria is specified in the Rules for such additional medals for non-playing staff. Presumably decided on an ad-hoc basis.I imagine staff to be the coaches, sport scientists, medical people, physios, etc but I wondered what the criteria would be for any of them to get a medal.
Game time might be a measure for players but staff?
Wee fella is the same. Had a shout out 2 year ago for his birthday from firth. He’s a goalie for his team and said he would kill to get his job.I’d forfeit a medal just so he could get one, I absolutely love the guy
Trained with I guess. I think the guys who have been at training all year and listed as squad members have contributed. No, I’m not Greg StewartSame as the EPL you mean? Albeit they start from a higher threshold for the number of medals and still have a criteria that 5 appearances gets you a medal. Post #16. What's your definition of 'squad'? Trained with? Made the bench?
He’s a top guy who appreciates being at a top club, think he’s accepted he’s never going to play but he’s helpful to the kids.Wee fella is the same. Had a shout out 2 year ago for his birthday from firth. He’s a goalie for his team and said he would kill to get his job.
Wright, Bassey and Patterson I thinkSo who is missing out then?
I cant see Rangers letting anyone miss out,we are a squadSo who is missing out then?
The 'rules' are open to debate because of the wording - as usual with all things SPFL. We get 25 medals for players and staff. We can purchase additional medals. However, the way I interpret the rule is that, in terms of players, these can only be awarded to players who have featured in 25% or more of matches, or 10 games.I cant see Rangers letting anyone miss out,we are a squad
It is ambiguous. The 25% rule looks as if it might apply no matter how many medals are purchased.One of us is reading it wrong because going with Dingwalls post above, it is only the additional medals that need to make the 25% criteria. It's the wording of it 'Players, other staff and Officials' That makes me think Beale, Culshaw, Gary McAllister, Milsom, Graeme Smith, Gerrard will all be entitled/deserving of one. So we're down to 19 right away, I think it's a loophole and as long as you get your admin correct nobody realistically will go without
I know this infuriates you VB so apologies for murkying the waters but I still think it's as clear as mud.
I'm sure there will be a bit of discretion and all three will get a medal.The 'rules' are open to debate because of the wording - as usual with all things SPFL. However, we get 25 medals for players and staff. We can purchase additional medals. However, the way I interpret the rule is that, in terms of players, these can only be awarded to players who have featured in 25% or more of matches, or 10 games.
Rule C39:
The Company shall present to the Champion Club of the League 25 League Championship Medals for Players, other staff and Officials. Additional League Championship Medals may be purchased from the Company with the prior consent of the Board. Only those Players who participated in 25% or more of the League Matches for the Champion Club in the relevant Season will be eligible to receive such medals.
Patterson misses out by 3 games. Bassey misses out by 2 games. Wright, even if he appears in both final matches misses out by 1 game.
Where are you seeing 'discretion' in that rule, in terms of medals to players?I'm sure there will be a bit of discretion and all three will get a medal.
I think the way I would read it is that we would give the first 25 medals to players - provided they meet the 25%/10 games criteria - if we have that many who meet said criteria. We could then purchase additional medals for staff.One of us is reading it wrong because going with Dingwalls post above, it is only the additional medals that need to make the 25% criteria. It's the wording of it 'Players, other staff and Officials' That makes me think Beale, Culshaw, Gary McAllister, Milsom, Graeme Smith, Gerrard will all be entitled/deserving of one. So we're down to 19 right away, I think it's a loophole and as long as you get your admin correct nobody realistically will go without
I know this infuriates you VB so apologies for murkying the waters but I still think it's as clear as mud.
Stewart?Wright, Bassey and Patterson I think
Miles off getting a medal. A total of 3 League appearances.Stewart?
Not trying to be cheeky mate but is this based on knowledge you have or is it just your opinion?The club will purchase more. Every player and staff who contributed this season, no matter how little will get one.
See post #88.The club will purchase more. Every player and staff who contributed this season, no matter how little will get one.