Liverpool & Selling your Best Asset

brain

brain

Well-Known Member
Liverpool have done it 3 times.

14/15 - Suarez to Barcelona - £74m
15/16 - Sterling to Man City - £57m
17/18 - Coutinho to Barcelona - £121.5

I think this disproves the notion that you'll get nowhere if you don't hang on to your best players. A similar, but less conclusive, case could be made with regards to Spurs and Gareth Bale. Like Liverpool they have grown hugely as a club since that sale.

This isn't to say we need to sell Tav & Morelos. However depending on the money and the player's mindset with regards to the potential move, selling (particularly in Morelos's case) could provide our club with a big opportunity to build for 55.
 
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pandager1 said:
A very good point, OP, it's all about how the proceeds are re-invested.
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Precisely. Sometimes the collective can be greater than the sum of the individual parts (although Liverpool do have some exceptional players) and as you say, it’s key to invest properly.
 
pandager1 said:
A very good point, OP, it's all about how the proceeds are re-invested.
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Exactly which kind of disproves the Suarez example. They didn't replace him very well at all. They spent £117m after selling him and only Lovren could really be considered a first 11 player for them now. Neither did they make money on selling those players they bought on. In fact they made big losses on a few of those players.

Allison and Van Dijk for the Coutinho money was brilliant business however.
 
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We've seen, even at our level, clubs like Benfica, Porto and Ajax thrive from this model. Every player is replacable — unless you've got Messi.
 
They were rotten after they sold Suarez, and Sterling wasn’t their best asset when he was sold. It’s also worth noting that is of right now, Liverpool and Spurs have won a grand total of ‘0’ trophies between them since.

You can improve after selling your best player, just as you can also go back the way if you don’t spend the money wisely.
 
Kimarcus said:
Exactly which kind of disproves the Suarez example. They didn't replace him very well at all. They spent £117m after selling him and only Lovren could really be considered a first 11 player for them.

Allison and Van Dijk for the Coutinho money was brilliant business however.
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Rodgers spent the Suarez money on absolute shite.

If we got a big transfer fee in the summer, I'm confident it will be reinvested wisely.
 
how they managed to get 121million for coutinho is beyond belief! fair play to them! hindsight is a great thing though.
 
For clarity, I didn't say the proceeds were spent wisely in each case. The point was just that they did it 3 times and are where they are now after the inevitable mix of smart and not so smart re-investment.
 
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I do agree it's all about how you invest your new found pot of gold but what have Liverpool won since they sold their best players?

Yes they've reached finals and yes they've gone close in the league but they still have no trophies to show for it (yet).

I do think we could get away with selling Morelos and reinvesting the money however my priority is winning the league next year and I don't think this is a sure fire way of doing it.
 
mkgers said:
but what have Liverpool won since they sold their best players?
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There are other variables but they are a far stronger side as a result of the re-investment of some of those fees. Not winning anything is relative to where they improved from as a club and where the competition are. They haven't won the league since 89/90.
mkgers said:
however my priority is winning the league next year and I don't think this is a sure fire way of doing it.
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It certainly isn't, it's a potential opportunity if the numbers are right
 
Lets do it properly then:

14/15
Out - Suarez - £73.55m
In - Lallana - £27.90m Lovren - £22.77m Markovic - £22.50m Balotelli - £18.00m Moreno - £16.20m Origi - £11.37m Can - £10.80m
All other incomings/outgoings were below £10m (NET Spend 46.95m)

15/16
Out - Sterling £57.33m Borini £9.63m
In - Benteke £41.85m Firminho £36.90m Clyne £15.93m
All other incoming/outgoings below £9m (NET Spend: 31.2m)

16/17
Out - Benteke £28.08m Ibe £16.20m Allen £13.95m
In - Mane £37.08m Wijnaldum £24.75m
All other incomings/outgoings below £10m (NET Profit: 4.50m)

17/18
Out - Coutinho £121.50m Sakho £25.38
In - van Dijk £76.19m Salah £37.80m Oxlade-Chamberlain £34.20m
All other incomings/outgoings beow £10m (NET Profit: 9.56m)

18/19
Out - Solanke £19.08m Ward £12.80m
In - Alisson £56.25m Keita £54.00m Fabinho £40.50m Shaqiri £13.23m
All other incomings/outgoings below £10m (NET Spend: 129.33m)

We can't really look to compare ourselves to this kind of model, considering that most seasons Liverpool will put all the proceeds and more back into player spend.

If we sell a player for top dollar, I wouldn't be expecting the entirety to be re-invested in the playing squad.

There are sides in the smaller leagues (Ajax, Benfica and Porto jump to mind) who would be more comparable to the situation we will be in.
 
14/15 and 15/16 they spent the Suarez and Sterling money on mostly duds and unsurprisingly that was on Rodgers' watch

Benteke £32m
Ings £8m
Lambert £4m
Lallana £25m
Markovic £20m
Lovren £20m
Origi £10m
Moreno £12m
Balotelli £16m

That is an incredible amount of wasted money. You could argue the only VFM signings in that period were Gomez, Can, Firmino, Clyne and Milner

Only when Klopp came in can you say they've invested more wisely - Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, van Dijk, Keita, Alisson, Fabinho.
 
brain said:
There are other variables but they are a far stronger side as a result of the re-investment of some of those fees. Not winning anything is relative to where they improved from as a club and where the competition are. They haven't won the league since 89/90.

It certainly isn't, it's a potential opportunity if the numbers are right
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I appreciate what you're saying and tend to agree, their points total this year is phenomenal despite looking like they won't win the league.

I just think we're in a slightly different position right now and our success needs to be more urgent I'm sure you would agree.

If we sell 1 of our best players and the reinvestment works its a masterstroke. If it fails we set ourselves back and have to listen to the pedos for God knows how long.
 
Boumsong to Newcastle: £8.5 million

Buffell, Kyriagos, Ferguson to Rangers resulted in a league title and players mentioned all first 11 players who contributed.
A Rangers example mentioned a few times when selling Morelos comes up.
 
Gazman_Airdrie said:
We can't really look to compare ourselves to this kind of model, considering that most seasons Liverpool will put all the proceeds and more back into player spend.

If we sell a player for top dollar, I wouldn't be expecting the entirety to be re-invested in the playing squad.

There are sides in the smaller leagues (Ajax, Benfica and Porto jump to mind) who would be more comparable to the situation we will be in.
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Tbh somebody would pick holes in those examples too. It's a basic example of large sales combined with some good scouting producing favourable results for a club. We could spend all day picking it apart but the principle does apply.
 
I have absolutely no problem taking our most valued player and selling him in order to make the team better.
What I don’t see as good business is us losing our top three players in one window.
Kent will be gone so to sell both Tavernier and Morelos is just too much a gamble for me.
 
IanGers said:
Boumsong to Newcastle: £8.5 million

Buffell, Kyriagos, Ferguson to Rangers resulted in a league title and players mentioned all first 11 players who contributed.
A Rangers example mentioned a few times when selling Morelos comes up.
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It’s an outstanding example and was in a winter window.
 
SDF said:
14/15 and 15/16 they spent the Suarez and Sterling money on mostly duds and unsurprisingly that was on Rodgers' watch

Benteke £32m
Ings £8m
Lambert £4m
Lallana £25m
Markovic £20m
Lovren £20m
Origi £10m
Moreno £12m
Balotelli £16m

That is an incredible amount of wasted money. You could argue the only VFM signings in that period were Gomez, Can, Firmino, Clyne and Milner

Only when Klopp came in can you say they've invested more wisely - Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, van Dijk, Keita, Alisson, Fabinho.
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Origi has made himself value for money on the back of last night.
 
IanGers said:
Boumsong to Newcastle: £8.5 million

Buffell, Kyriagos, Ferguson to Rangers resulted in a league title and players mentioned all first 11 players who contributed.
A Rangers example mentioned a few times when selling Morelos comes up.
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We did win the league but we actually got more points per game before the end of the winter window than after. However Ferguson did contribute for years to come and in winning titles so that could be argued too.
 
tazzabear said:
I have absolutely no problem taking our most valued player and selling him in order to make the team better.
What I don’t see as good business is us losing our top three players in one window.
Kent will be gone so to sell both Tavernier and Morelos is just too much a gamble for me.
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This is a well made point and worth remembering. If we lose all 3 this window, we need 3 replacements of equivalent or better and that will involve a 100% strike rate on the signings, which is a tall order for any manager.

That said, money will dictate I feel and if the offers for Tav and Alfie are above certain amounts, they will go.
 
We totally overstate the league we play in when we speak about selling players.

Every single club in Scotland is a regular and oft selling club, many don't even sell, they just have to watch their best players walk away for nothing.

10 of the teams we play each season trade all summer in the free agent market.

Even in a proposed worst case scenario where we might loose Kent, Tav and Morelos for 15 million (we could make more) it still leaves us in an unimaginably stronger place than the third best team in our league who just lost their best player for nothing.
 
We'll undoubtedly sell if we get good offers, but as said its how that money is reinvested. And ideally you want to sell one per season. Trying to replace 3/4 of your best players in one window and still challenge is difficult

Kent is on loan and we might get him back, we might not. If we were to lost Morelos and Tav as well, that would be a kick in the balls IMO
 
bob1873 said:
Spurs sold Bail and look how they wasted the cash. Appreciate they have a hell of a team now but that cash was badly spent.
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Well it wasn't as bad as it seems at first. Overpaid for Lamela but he was a good addition all in all, Eriksen was one of the bargains of the decade. Paulinho, Chiriches, Capoue & Chadli didn't work out but when you add them up they got the transfer fees back for them and that was in turn re-invested the following season. Soldado was the biggest flop, but even there they got just over half the fee back. So although at first it seems like the money was blown, actually they got a second crack at spending a lot of it and some more key players were added with it which played a big part in getting them where they are now.
 
The truth of the matter re. football transfers is surely that nothing can actually be guaranteed. A club can invest loads of time researching and scouting players, but there are so many imponderables involved that cannot be foreseen or predicted, that in the end signing a player will always be something of a gamble.

A classic example would be Barca's signing of Coutinho, which seemed on its face to be a no-brainer, but which hasn't worked out.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
If we lose all 3 this window, we need 3 replacements of equivalent or better and that will involve a 100% strike rate on the signings, which is a tall order for any manager
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Tavernier will be impossible to replace in my opinion. 20 assists from right back? Forget it. However if a big bid came in and the player is keen I think it's taken out of our hands. Rangers would never deny him the opportunity to hugely increase his salary and play at a higher level. We would have no option but to trust our scouts and hope that other players pick up the slack in terms of creativity.
 
Morelos is a fantastic player and brings a real threat to our team. However, the last 5 games have shown that without him we still have a great side who can produce results.

If were able to get around £15 million for him, then I think we'd be wise to take it and reinvest in 2 or 3 strong players who can support the team currently doing so well.
 
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