Next Steps and End Game

Davie_Mitchell

Davie_Mitchell

Well-Known Member
Remember what the aim is here. We are trying to get an independent investigation carried out. We are not looking for the guilty parties to hold their hands up and surrender. That would not achieve much right now.

We are looking for support to start an investigation.

IMO the end game is a full shakeup of the management of football in this country and the highlighting of the underbelly controlling it. Only an investigation can do that, otherwise it’s just slagging matches. We need other clubs to vote with us to get it done. Lobbying other clubs’ supporters can be done using a ‘nothing to lose’ type persuasion.
 
I think not one club will stand at our back, one or two "journalists" may go against the tide, and back us. The whole corrupt lot will belittle us, and the end game will be us sooking Bobby for the foreseeable. Basically, as you were.
 
Davester said:
I think not one club will stand at our back, one or two "journalists" may go against the tide, and back us. The whole corrupt lot will belittle us, and the end game will be us sooking Bobby for the foreseeable. Basically, as you were.
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We're going to court by looks of it unless I've spectacularly misread the situation.
Don't need any other club at our back if that's what we're doing.
 
Davester said:
I think not one club will stand at our back, one or two "journalists" may go against the tide, and back us. The whole corrupt lot will belittle us, and the end game will be us sooking Bobby for the foreseeable. Basically, as you were.
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Unless we take it to the courts, and maybe Court of Arbitration for Sport. There will be nothing for us in the football authorities channels of n this republican backwater.
 
Craig McColl said:
We're going to court by looks of it unless I've spectacularly misread the situation.
Don't need any other club at our back if that's what we're doing.
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Some folk are saying we should be looking at making of friends in Scotland. For me, we're long past that. If we go it alone to court, so be it. We simply can't be any more despised with the diddy clubs and rockets who follow them here. Let's hit the courts.
 
Edit: Now ive digested things better. I think I see our chance to nail them through corporate governance laws. I didn't realize that opportunity existed earlier. I thought a civil suit was our only hope
 
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Law Society censure and Expulsion for McKenzie. Court proceedings under the Companies Act, Dismissal of the whole Board and re election of a new one following the Court decision which will take years for Appeal after Appeal to be heard from the SPFL. A new separate entity(lol) league must be
formed during the Appeal process.
Complete Reform of the league structure.
 
iaatpies said:
What end game do people want?

Doncaster goes. A thoroughly odious man will more than likely lose his job.

What happens next? Whats the ultimate aim of all of this? To get a fair deal in Scottish football? For that to happen we need far more than getting rid of Neil Doncaster.
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Bit worried the SPFL are like Hydra, cut off one head and two more shall take its place.
 
Davester said:
I think not one club will stand at our back, one or two "journalists" may go against the tide, and back us. The whole corrupt lot will belittle us, and the end game will be us sooking Bobby for the foreseeable. Basically, as you were.
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This is where we the fans must man up and ensure a total boycott of away games. Doesn't matter how many years "I haven't missed a game for" , finances or lack of them is the only thing that will focus these clubs attention.
 
whitbyontbear said:
Law Society censure and Expulsion for McKenzie. Court proceedings under the Companies Act, Dismissal of the whole Board and re election of a new one following the Court decision which will take years for Appeal after Appeal to be heard from the SPFL. A new separate entity(lol) league must be
formed during the Appeal process.
Complete Reform of the league structure.
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For a start!
 
BWO said:
Bit worried the SPFL are like Hydra, cut off one head and two more shall take its place.
Click to expand...

The rest of Scottish football wants 1 thing - to get through the pandemic shut down and emerge on the other side. Better governance? League reconstruction? A better share of league revenues across the divisions? All well and good. Very nice things to have if we can. But survival? Thats the big one.

I hate to say it but I can only really see this as a personal fight between Rangers and a few significant individuals on the SPFL board. I don't see where the rest of Scottish football buys into a way forward that benefits everybody. Removing the incompetent and those who lack any shred of integrity? Great.

It just does nothing to take the rest of the clubs forward. There's very little there for clubs to buy into.
 
The SPFL are bluffing and Brassing it out, nothing to see here, move along patter from them. Only thing that will remove them is the litigation route, I hope we have the fortitude to go down this avenue. The support as always will back the board, I would certainly pay in to a new fund for court costs.
 
If as Raman suggested earlier, we have sought legal counsel and they think we have a good case then the only next step is to take it to court.
 
Resign from the league if nobody backs us , it takes 3 years to leave , use religious & political prejudice against us, it worked for Derry City in Northern Ireland UEFA allowed them to join the Republic league.
 
Commentator said:
You're better than this.
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Seriously. Whats the end game?

Put yourself in the position of Morton. Or Clyde. Or Ross County. Rangers want to remove Doncaster and the rest of them at the top of the SPFL? Fine. Wire in. Whats in it for Morton? or Clyde? Or Ross County?

Thats whats missing in all of this. Why.

Not "what do we want to happen?". It's clear that we want reformation of the SPFL and for an independent inquiry to result in the removal of Doncaster and McKenzie from their positions.

Not "how are we going to do it?". We feel that we've got enough evidence to support a prima facie case of serious wrong doing.

It's Why? Why should any other club in the SPFL buy into this as being of benefit to them? There's a lot that we could all learn from Simon Sinek here and his argument that the "why" is the most important and compelling part of any argument.
 
iaatpies said:
The rest of Scottish football wants 1 thing - to get through the pandemic shut down and emerge on the other side. Better governance? League reconstruction? A better share of league revenues across the divisions? All well and good. Very nice things to have if we can. But survival? Thats the big one.

I hate to say it but I can only really see this as a personal fight between Rangers and a few significant individuals on the SPFL board. I don't see where the rest of Scottish football buys into a way forward that benefits everybody. Removing the incompetent and those who lack any shred of integrity? Great.

It just does nothing to take the rest of the clubs forward. There's very little there for clubs to buy into.
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IMO our fight is with the SPFL/SFA and the clubs that stand with them and not us.
You are correct it is about survival and the other clubs should Bear this in mind when they choose what side they’re on. Every club account knows what the Blue £ is worth to their club and it can make or break - especially now.
 
iaatpies said:
Seriously. Whats the end game?

Put yourself in the position of Morton. Or Clyde. Or Ross County. Rangers want to remove Doncaster and the rest of them at the top of the SPFL? Fine. Wire in. Whats in it for Morton? or Clyde? Or Ross County?

Thats whats missing in all of this. Why.

Not "what do we want to happen?". It's clear that we want reformation of the SPFL and for an independent inquiry to result in the removal of Doncaster and McKenzie from their positions.

Not "how are we going to do it?". We feel that we've got enough evidence to support a prima facie case of serious wrong doing.

It's Why? Why should any other club in the SPFL buy into this as being of benefit to them? There's a lot that we could all learn from Simon Sinek here and his argument that the "why" is the most important and compelling part of any argument.
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It will, inevitably, come down to money and survival. We need the runts to die to let the stronger clubs flourish and grow.
 
iaatpies said:
What end game do people want?

Doncaster goes. A thoroughly odious man will more than likely lose his job.

What happens next? Whats the ultimate aim of all of this? To get a fair deal in Scottish football? For that to happen we need far more than getting rid of Neil Doncaster.
Click to expand...
Indeed. This action is absolutely required, but I worry that the outcome is going to fall well short of what most right minded people would want to happen.
 
iaatpies said:
Seriously. Whats the end game?

Put yourself in the position of Morton. Or Clyde. Or Ross County. Rangers want to remove Doncaster and the rest of them at the top of the SPFL? Fine. Wire in. Whats in it for Morton? or Clyde? Or Ross County?

Thats whats missing in all of this. Why.

Not "what do we want to happen?". It's clear that we want reformation of the SPFL and for an independent inquiry to result in the removal of Doncaster and McKenzie from their positions.

Not "how are we going to do it?". We feel that we've got enough evidence to support a prima facie case of serious wrong doing.

It's Why? Why should any other club in the SPFL buy into this as being of benefit to them? There's a lot that we could all learn from Simon Sinek here and his argument that the "why" is the most important and compelling part of any argument.
Click to expand...
You're a respected poster but this relentless determination to ignore the positives and shit all over this is disappointing. This will be a long game, most probably via the courts and you must know that the end game cannot be ours alone, it has to be a consensus of the SPFL clubs.
But, I'm sure you know this.
 
Davie_Mitchell said:
It will, inevitably, come down to money and survival. We need the runts to die to let the stronger clubs flourish and grow.
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Not going to happen.

Scottish football does not grow through the demise of clubs. All that achieves is for fans to walk away from the game. It doesnt improve the standard of Scottish football. Given the pittance that the lower leagues get in SPFL prize money, it doesnt put significantly more money into club finances. It achieves nothing.
 
Commentator said:
You're a respected poster but this relentless determination to ignore the positives and shit all over this is disappointing. This will be a long game, most probably via the courts and you must know that the end game cannot be ours alone, it has to be a consensus of the SPFL clubs.
But, I'm sure you know this.
Click to expand...

I'm not ignoring the positives. The big positive may well be the removal of Neil Doncaster.

Thats just not enough for me. It changes absolutely nothing if the next person is equally incompetent and deceitful. It doesnt in itself make the rest of Scottish football any better disposed to Rangers or improve our chances of fair governance if the rest of the game in Scotland don't care enough to buy into what Rangers are trying to achieve.
 
BWO said:
Bit worried the SPFL are like Hydra, cut off one head and two more shall take its place.
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That's a good one fella. Very apt. The heads of Doncaster and McLennan go, and will be replaced by Aidan Flaherty, a director of Albion Rovers, and Sinead Quinn, a paralegal at Harper MacLeod. Obviously, the names have been changed to protect the guilty, but you get what I mean. And the whole shitshow begins again, like nothing happened. With Rangers and basically the rest of Scottish football as the 2 sides. We're fucked.
 
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iaatpies said:
What end game do people want?

Doncaster goes. A thoroughly odious man will more than likely lose his job.

What happens next? Whats the ultimate aim of all of this? To get a fair deal in Scottish football? For that to happen we need far more than getting rid of Neil Doncaster.
Click to expand...
We want the heads of Doncaster, McClennan, Mulraney and McKenzie.

And a full and independent inquiry.
 
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iaatpies said:
The rest of Scottish football wants 1 thing - to get through the pandemic shut down and emerge on the other side. Better governance? League reconstruction? A better share of league revenues across the divisions? All well and good. Very nice things to have if we can. But survival? Thats the big one.

I hate to say it but I can only really see this as a personal fight between Rangers and a few significant individuals on the SPFL board. I don't see where the rest of Scottish football buys into a way forward that benefits everybody. Removing the incompetent and those who lack any shred of integrity? Great.

It just does nothing to take the rest of the clubs forward. There's very little there for clubs to buy into.
Click to expand...

What about the clubs that have been promoted and relegated based on incomplete league standings? We might be the only club with the resources to take this further but a lack of competence and integrity at the top has consequences for more than just us and them.
 
iaatpies said:
I'm not ignoring the positives. The big positive may well be the removal of Neil Doncaster.

Thats just not enough for me. It changes absolutely nothing if the next person is equally incompetent and deceitful. It doesnt in itself make the rest of Scottish football any better disposed to Rangers or improve our chances of fair governance if the rest of the game in Scotland don't care enough to buy into what Rangers are trying to achieve.
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Now you've got me wondering if you are 'pies'.
We've already agreed that the end game is and must be unknown at this point.
Or haven't we?
 
EOS said:
What about the clubs that have been promoted and relegated based on incomplete league standings? We might be the only club with the resources to take this further but a lack of competence and integrity at the top has consequences for more than just us and them.
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We already saw that with the teams who would have voted against the resolution. The likes of Thistle and Falkirk were never going to vote to confirm relegation or hand Raith Rovers a league title. None of this is likely to change how lower league clubs vote.
 
An independent investigation isn’t going to get enough votes in favour at the EGM.

The teams at the top the leagues (who’ll ultimately be declared champions) and the teams narrowly avoiding relegation will reject it. That’s nearly bust the 75:25 ratio right away!

Our board must (surely!!) have their next step already planned.

Anyone who thinks the SPFL board will “cave into pressure” if there’s even 60% of teams in favour of an independent investigation need their heads looked at.
These corrupt cünts have proven that they’ll stop at nothing to get their own way.
 
Commentator said:
Now you've got me wondering if you are 'pies'.
We've already agreed that the end game is and must be unknown at this point.
Or haven't we?
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Nope. The end game for me should never be unknown. You can't expect the rest of Scottish football to buy into and support something with such an unknown end point when the one thing that they do know is that the pandemic has put their very existence at threat. Chairmen want the survival of their clubs first and the general good of Scottish football second. If we want to argue that this is for the good of Scottish football then there needs to be some kind of argument that it's going to be for the benefit of
 
imo we should be making it quite clear that we WILL be going to court if there is not a truly independent investigation into ALL of our points.

We should also ensure that every other Club knows that if it goes to court, it will be down to the SPFL's lack of integrity -- and THAT is what will cost millions in court costs and possible damages.

We can tell these other clubs that they have an opportunity to head all of that off at the pass.


But the thread title is a good point -- let's assume that we get shot of these chancers.
We must start, right now, laying the background that the SPFL can NOT be trusted to have its next leaders and legal reps from where they can come from previously.

We must lay the blame for all of this at their door, plainly indicating that the next incumbents at the top of the SPFL must come in from a different source than the previous bullies, duffers and crooks.


Our Club has already asked for the suspension of the SPFL amigos.
I think we should be going the next step and (even before they go) insisting that the entire process for picking them has been flawed and that we need genuine professionals employed, without fear nor favour, showing no bias and having no allegiances to any particular club.
 
skorn said:
imo we should be making it quite clear that we WILL be going to court if there is not a truly independent investigation into ALL of our points.

We should also ensure that every other Club knows that if it goes to court, it will be down to the SPFL's lack of integrity -- and THAT is what will cost millions in court costs and possible damages.

We can tell these other clubs that they have an opportunity to head all of that off at the pass.


But the thread title is a good point -- let's assume that we get shot of these chancers.
We must start, right now, laying the background that the SPFL can NOT be trusted to have its next leaders and legal reps from where they can come from previously.

We must lay the blame for all of this at their door, plainly indicating that the next incumbents at the top of the SPFL must come in from a different source than the previous bullies, duffers and crooks.


Our Club has already asked for the suspension of the SPFL amigos.
I think we should be going the next step and (even before they go) insisting that the entire process for picking them has been flawed and that we need genuine professionals employed, without fear nor favour, showing no bias and having no allegiances to any particular club.
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There wouldn't be damages. Nothing in the information released so far shows any loss to Rangers.
 
iaatpies said:
Nope. The end game for me should never be unknown. You can't expect the rest of Scottish football to buy into and support something with such an unknown end point when the one thing that they do know is that the pandemic has put their very existence at threat. Chairmen want the survival of their clubs first and the general good of Scottish football second. If we want to argue that this is for the good of Scottish football then there needs to be some kind of argument that it's going to be for the benefit of
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Last from me on this.
Our end goals are not unknown to us but it'd be self-defeating to state them at this point.
First thing that needs to happen is an independent investigation to establish if our case stands up.
Assuming it does, the SPFL, not us, need to agree on the goal and what must to be done to arrive at it. We, of course, will have our view but the SPFL as a whole must agree on the end goals, it's not for one club to dictate to the rest.
Catch you later.
 
The end game was to oust Doncaster and McLennan.

While we all know what they are the dossier we have produced is not enough and does not contain the damning evidence we said we had.

Do we have more? Lets hope so as this has been a letdown after the language used to describe what we had.
 
Commentator said:
Last from me on this.
Our end goals are not unknown to us but it'd be self-defeating to state them at this point.
First thing that needs to happen is an independent investigation to establish if our case stands up.
Assuming it does, the SPFL, not us, need to agree on the goal and what must to be done to arrive at it. We, of course, will have our view but the SPFL as a whole must agree on the end goals, it's not for one club to dictate to the rest.
Catch you later.
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Which isnt going to happen without a clear desired outcome that other clubs can buy into.
 
Now and forever said:
The end game was to oust Doncaster and McLennan.

While we all know what they are the dossier we have produced is not enough and does not contain the damning evidence we said we had.

Do we have more? Lets hope so as this has been a letdown after the language used to describe what we had.
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Actually it may well be enough to oust Doncaster.

The question is what happens after that.
 
Davester said:
I think not one club will stand at our back, one or two "journalists" may go against the tide, and back us. The whole corrupt lot will belittle us, and the end game will be us sooking Bobby for the foreseeable. Basically, as you were.
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If people want to continue sooking boaby as you describe it, make no mistake there’s going to be a lot more of that in store for us in the future if we don’t get rid of these rats.

It’s simply unthinkable to carry on as usual in this corrupt set up if we don’t change how things are run and continue to willingly fund clubs who are happy to go along with it and are clearly hostile towards us.

I will not be accepting getting shafted and paying for the privilege into the bargain. To carry on as normal is not an option now, It’s finally time to stand up to it and win the war or unfurl the white flag above Ibrox and accept defeat.
 
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