Paul Merson documentary tonight on BBC1 9pm

RaskolnikovBear said:
Gambling is a thing that just never really took me. Seems a waste of money but I understand addiction. I was a heroin addict for about 15 years, been clean now over 10 years. Addiction is a horrible thing. You know what you are doing is destroying you but it’s extremely hard when it is a physical thing. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. There are plenty of people I would like to see a bit of suffering in their life as they deserve it but addiction is not one I would wish on anyone.
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Congrats on getting off it and staying off it mate.
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
Of course people should be allowed a bet if they so wish, but the entire industry and regulations need to be completely overhauled imo.
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Its a very difficult situation not helped by prohibitionists with no concept of reality and government supported studies that somehow equate a betting deposit as “losses”.

The ecosystem is probably rotten at the moment. At one end you have people like Paul Merson and those guys are paying for the winners that try to fly under the radar (and the matched betting) with the general public in the middle losing their £20 a week.

It seems the only way the industry is willing to “fix” it is to be given complete control over all data which will actually take both the Paul Mersons and the winners out the game.

The data at the moment (is supposed to) remain private by company. If you win at 365 you move onto the next place and roll forward on a weekly monthly or yearly basis depending on how smart or lucky your pattern looks to traders.

The correct way this should be done is the UKGC create a body to administer the affordability. You register there and your stamp follows you to wherever you want to play (including the National Lottery !). The UKGC is not interested - why ?

Seems to be the creep towards creating a data wild west is the governments concession here. Bookies absolutely do not want to lose the Paul Mersons without taking the winners with him as an offset.
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
Congrats on getting off it and staying off it mate.
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Thankyou brother. My wife deserves the credit to be honest. I stopped the day we met. You just need the correct motivation. It’s hard and it’s still there buried deep inside but I have the best reasons to stay clean, a wonderful wife and son.
just like to add, anyone with addiction problems, DM me if you need a talk, sometimes just speaking of your problem helps, no judgement here as I have done terrible things. I thank God every day I met my wife as sure as day, I would be dead if I hadn’t met her. I thought I was ok as I was a functioning addict. No one believed me when I told the truth in the beginning.
 
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RaskolnikovBear said:
Thankyou brother. My wife deserves the credit to be honest. I stopped the day we met. You just need the correct motivation. It’s hard and it’s still there buried deep inside but I have the best reasons to stay clean, a wonderful wife and son.
just like to add, anyone with addiction problems, DM me if you need a talk, sometimes just speaking of your problem helps, no judgement here as I have done terrible things. I thank God every day I met my wife as sure as day, I would be dead if I hadn’t met her. I thought I was ok as I was a functioning addict. No one believed me when I told the truth in the beginning.
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You recognised what you did, took full responsibility, atone for what happened and now have a proper life with family.

You should be proud of yourself.

Keep up the good fight.
 
I would like to know who he was betting with with regard to when he was going through his bank statements. Can’t remember if it was 2017 or during Covid but either date I’m amazed any decent firm was taking his bets, he’s so well known for having a gambling problem that anyone taking them is a disgrace really. Wondering if it was possibly an offline firm who you can bet with over the phone or via wattsapp/telegram/text message as they aren’t signed up to Gamstop, even then I’m amazed they were happy to let him play really.
 
Thought I’d give this a watch due to seeing it mentioned in here.

15/20 minutes in and it’s a bit of a tough watch.

Have a bit of a soft spot for Merson tbh.
 
nelster said:
Its a very difficult situation not helped by prohibitionists with no concept of reality and government supported studies that somehow equate a betting deposit as “losses”.

The ecosystem is probably rotten at the moment. At one end you have people like Paul Merson and those guys are paying for the winners that try to fly under the radar (and the matched betting) with the general public in the middle losing their £20 a week.

It seems the only way the industry is willing to “fix” it is to be given complete control over all data which will actually take both the Paul Mersons and the winners out the game.

The data at the moment (is supposed to) remain private by company. If you win at 365 you move onto the next place and roll forward on a weekly monthly or yearly basis depending on how smart or lucky your pattern looks to traders.

The correct way this should be done is the UKGC create a body to administer the affordability. You register there and your stamp follows you to wherever you want to play (including the National Lottery !). The UKGC is not interested - why ?

Seems to be the creep towards creating a data wild west is the governments concession here. Bookies absolutely do not want to lose the Paul Mersons without taking the winners with him as an offset.
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The industry closes any winning account or even a losing one that manages to beat SP at the moment .Your idea that bookmakers should be able to share data would mean that pretty much no gambler would be able to win except on betfair and even then they could end up paying a premium charge .
At the moment the only way I get on is to buy burner phones so they cannot trace the address to previous accounts .If they could share the information then I would be closed down after one account .How does that help punters ?
 
Aztec said:
The industry closes any winning account or even a losing one that manages to beat SP at the moment .Your idea that bookmakers should be able to share data would mean that pretty much no gambler would be able to win except on betfair and even then they could end up paying a premium charge .
At the moment the only way I get on is to buy burner phones so they cannot trace the address to previous accounts .If they could share the information then I would be closed down after one account .How does that help punters ?
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Its definitely not my idea or wish. Its what they want and what the government is about to give them. Can’t quote the precise link but there were articles saying it was coming in last fortnight.

If they cant have Paul Mersons then they only want the middle of the road folk happy losing £20 a week.

I suffer the very same “issues” as yourself.

A UKGC affordability agency that every gambler registers with and does 1 single affordability upload per year - with bookies then only seeing your unique ID and affordability rating, should be the outcome. Why won’t they do it ? Because they lose the Paul Merson money and the winners are still there trying to stay under the radar draining profits.

Found it :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446124332309102607
 
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Aztec said:
The industry closes any winning account or even a losing one that manages to beat SP at the moment .Your idea that bookmakers should be able to share data would mean that pretty much no gambler would be able to win except on betfair and even then they could end up paying a premium charge .
At the moment the only way I get on is to buy burner phones so they cannot trace the address to previous accounts .If they could share the information then I would be closed down after one account .How does that help punters ?
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What are you backing there?

I’m a punter and trader, although I haven’t worked for any UK facing firm for 10 years now. It’s a battle at the end of the day. There are some terrible Traders now to be fair who close people so quickly. It’s not a nice industry and never will be. I just find it amazing good punters with knowledge think they should have it easy, I have the same struggles myself. I don’t like the “encourage the mug till he tops himself” policy though.
 
Wazza said:
I just find it amazing good punters with knowledge think they should have it easy, I have the same struggles myself.
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It’s an ever increasingly difficult task year on year. This review of the gambling act and the “one view” controlled by bookies might just put loads out the game, that refuse to adapt or change their setup.

People I’ve spoken to down the years even back to matched betting days 15 years ago I’ve always tried to say “It’s not the bookies money you are taking, its the addicts money that the bookies are chasing more of offering incentives to get more of them onboard, you are just tolerated because for every 1 of you theres 20 losers coming”

Over the last 15 years the ratio of smart punters to losers has narrowed dramatically, particularly when those facebook groups that folk are daft enough to pay for became a thing. Completely obliterated the ratio.

Now a big reset is coming by way of a new Gambling Act, in my opinion. For the UK, at least.
 
More needs to be done by betting companies to combat addictions.

They have the technology to know who the problem gamblers are.

It's pretty disgusting that they continue to target people who it's clear have problems.
 
nelster said:
It’s an ever increasingly difficult task year on year. This review of the gambling act and the “one view” controlled by bookies might just put loads out the game, that refuse to adapt or change their setup.

People I’ve spoken to down the years even back to matched betting days 15 years ago I’ve always tried to say “It’s not the bookies money you are taking, its the addicts money that the bookies are chasing more of offering incentives to get more of them onboard, you are just tolerated because for every 1 of you theres 20 losers coming”

Over the last 15 years the ratio of smart punters to losers has narrowed dramatically, particularly when those facebook groups that folk are daft enough to pay for became a thing. Completely obliterated the ratio.

Now a big reset is coming by way of a new Gambling Act, in my opinion. For the UK, at least.
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I agree with pretty much most of that. Like I say it’s not a nice industry and it’s a battle. Personally I’m ready to get out, programmes like that bring bad memories back to be honest. Online Casinos and FOBTS brought a lot of different people in to the industry in terms of staff and management, people with no interest in sport and let alone betting - just people who saw an opportunity to make as much money as possible and sod the consequences, the Government let them do it as well.
 
RaskolnikovBear said:
Thankyou brother. My wife deserves the credit to be honest. I stopped the day we met. You just need the correct motivation. It’s hard and it’s still there buried deep inside but I have the best reasons to stay clean, a wonderful wife and son.
just like to add, anyone with addiction problems, DM me if you need a talk, sometimes just speaking of your problem helps, no judgement here as I have done terrible things. I thank God every day I met my wife as sure as day, I would be dead if I hadn’t met her. I thought I was ok as I was a functioning addict. No one believed me when I told the truth in the beginning.
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Cap doffed to you .Well done you should be a proud man
 
Wazza said:
What are you backing there?

I’m a punter and trader, although I haven’t worked for any UK facing firm for 10 years now. It’s a battle at the end of the day. There are some terrible Traders now to be fair who close people so quickly. It’s not a nice industry and never will be. I just find it amazing good punters with knowledge think they should have it easy, I have the same struggles myself. I don’t like the “encourage the mug till he tops himself” policy though.
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I find it hard to agree with your view that wanting to take a bet that a bookmaker has priced up is “having it easy”.I would go further and make them lay their price to a set amount .
It is not gambling if they are only prepared to take losing bets
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
Felt really sorry for the families at the end of the programme who's Sons/Husbands had killed themselves due to gambling while the authorities put completely toothless regulations in place.

There is no doubt in my mind that betting companies are utterly unscrupulous under the thin veneer of responsibility they point to whenever challenged. "But we use 20% of our ads to promote safe gambling" etc. The fact someone on here is prepared to tell us him and his mates would spy on PM's betting account pretty much confirms my assumptions about the culture within those organisations.
The biggest tell was when they all tried to block the removal of fixed odds machines as if they were of immense benefit to the community. Absolute bastards.

Of course people should be allowed a bet if they so wish, but the entire industry and regulations need to be completely overhauled imo.
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Agree 100%. Had to laugh when they went on about how many bookmaker jobs would be lost if the FOBT limits were introduced, what about how many jobs/relationships/lives those machines were ruining before the restrictions!
 
Gambling aside, WTF’s a so called Arsenal legend letting his son run about with Kane & Havertz kits on? Imagine Super Ally letting his boys wear Griffiths and Eammon Brophy jerseys? ;)
 
Aztec said:
I find it hard to agree with your view that wanting to take a bet that a bookmaker has priced up is “having it easy”.I would go further and make them lay their price to a set amount .
It is not gambling if they are only prepared to take losing a
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Any chance you could answer the question? We can go from there then, you must be putting on pretty warm money to be using burner phones to get on. Also how much take out are you wanting per bet? Await your answer anyway.
 
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I'll preface this by admitting a personal interest - I work currently, and have spent the majority of my career, working in UK online betting firms in the realm of compliance, regulation, prevention of harm etc. In my opinion, we are fighting blind with one hand behind our backs.

Much of the negative press in my opinion is in relation to "historic" issues. The days of a single company taking tens of thousands of pounds off someone, without checking if that was affordable and that the money was not the proceeds of crime, are gone for the major operators, and dying out with the less scrupulous places. At my current firm, our compliance/responsible gaming/anti money laundering department is three times the size of any other team and we are extremely strict and cautious when it comes to prevention of harm. I make no excuses for the previous practises of this industry, which were absolutely scummy, but it's not an accurate reflection of the current environment (online betting specifically)

The problem we have, as touched on by another poster, is the lack of single customer view, i.e. sharing intelligence with other operators. Gambling addicts don't have brand loyalty, so my company is only ever going to see a small snapshot of the full picture. But if an addict has 30 accounts, and we are only seeing 5% of the activity then we are fighting a losing battle. I appreciate the concerns raised above about stake factoring and trading restrictions but to me the prevention of harm (both addiction and crime in order to fund addiction) trumps that. We need to be able to speak to each other and identify people at risk, and until our regulator facilitates this we are hampered.

Retail (i.e. shop betting) is a different beast altogether. Whilst we all know who Merson is, does the 19 year old lassie behind the till at Coral know him? And what does she know about indicators of harm or addiction? Still a major risk there... An addict can drop a wad of cash (unchecked where that cash came from) in one shop, then move to the next one and repeat the pattern.

I do however take issue with the suggestion that the industry is trying to milk addicts until they top themselves etc. I'm sure there will be posters on here who are relentlessly badgered with responsible gambling interactions and source of funds requests from their bookmaker of choice, which they would probably describe as excessive and irritating.

Finally, if anyone is struggling with issues of this nature, please PM me and we can have a chat about how to get some help
 
rfb1872 said:
I'll preface this by admitting a personal interest - I work currently, and have spent the majority of my career, working in UK online betting firms in the realm of compliance, regulation, prevention of harm etc. In my opinion, we are fighting blind with one hand behind our backs.

Much of the negative press in my opinion is in relation to "historic" issues. The days of a single company taking tens of thousands of pounds off someone, without checking if that was affordable and that the money was not the proceeds of crime, are gone for the major operators, and dying out with the less scrupulous places. At my current firm, our compliance/responsible gaming/anti money laundering department is three times the size of any other team and we are extremely strict and cautious when it comes to prevention of harm. I make no excuses for the previous practises of this industry, which were absolutely scummy, but it's not an accurate reflection of the current environment (online betting specifically)

The problem we have, as touched on by another poster, is the lack of single customer view, i.e. sharing intelligence with other operators. Gambling addicts don't have brand loyalty, so my company is only ever going to see a small snapshot of the full picture. But if an addict has 30 accounts, and we are only seeing 5% of the activity then we are fighting a losing battle. I appreciate the concerns raised above about stake factoring and trading restrictions but to me the prevention of harm (both addiction and crime in order to fund addiction) trumps that. We need to be able to speak to each other and identify people at risk, and until our regulator facilitates this we are hampered.

Retail (i.e. shop betting) is a different beast altogether. Whilst we all know who Merson is, does the 19 year old lassie behind the till at Coral know him? And what does she know about indicators of harm or addiction? Still a major risk there... An addict can drop a wad of cash (unchecked where that cash came from) in one shop, then move to the next one and repeat the pattern.

I do however take issue with the suggestion that the industry is trying to milk addicts until they top themselves etc. I'm sure there will be posters on here who are relentlessly badgered with responsible gambling interactions and source of funds requests from their bookmaker of choice, which they would probably describe as excessive and irritating.

Finally, if anyone is struggling with issues of this nature, please PM me and we can have a chat about how to get some help
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Your second to last paragraph is going on sadly. Look at FSB Tech and their recent failings, a lad I know was a customer of theirs and at the heart of this, he had a breakdown and was close to suicide:

www.google.co.uk

Technology company fined £600,000 over failure to manage betting websites

A London-based company that provides technology to run betting websites has been fined £600,000 for what the Gambling Commission called "blatant... Read More
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk

Not for one minute saying all in the industry have this attitude but there are many who have a massive disregard for responsible gambling.

If someone like Merson was betting the sums he was speaking of on that show in shops then it would be flagged. I don’t believe he is a shop punter anyway.
 
Shoe Burns said:
Gambling aside, WTF’s a so called Arsenal legend letting his son run about with Kane & Havertz kits on? Imagine Super Ally letting his boys wear Griffiths and Eammon Brophy jerseys? ;)
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Merson was a Chelsea supporter growing up.

Is he a so called Arsenal legend anyway? He’s certainly not comparable to McCoist.
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
I applaud anyone who gets themselves out of the gutter and turns their life around.

If you dont feel empathy for people like that then thats your business.

Says more about you than anyone else.
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Correct. Some fucking idiotic comments on here from people with their heads up their arses.
 
Wazza said:
Any chance you could answer the question? We can go from there then, you must be putting on pretty warm money to be using burner phones to get on. Also how much take out are you wanting per bet? Await your answer anyway.
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Wazza said:
Any chance you could answer the question? We can go from there then, you must be putting on pretty warm money to be using burner phones to get on. Also how much take out are you wanting per bet? Await your answer anyway.
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I bet mostly horses and mostly my own fancies
I hardly ever bet warm horses although I have had a horse for the last year myself I was getting restricted long before I became an owner
I have being doing it full time for 15 years and would settle for 10% out of court each year .
I use burner phones because bookmakers have my home IP address and computer/ipad ID and the only way I can get bets on are in other peoples
names .
I find all the bookmakers do not want to take a bet no matter the size if they think you have a clue
I hope that has answered your question and explains why I do not want them sharing my private data (I think they already abuse data protection with their use of cookies etc)
 
Aztec said:
I bet mostly horses and mostly my own fancies
I hardly ever bet warm horses although I have had a horse for the last year myself I was getting restricted long before I became an owner
I have being doing it full time for 15 years and would settle for 10% out of court each year .
I use burner phones because bookmakers have my home IP address and computer/ipad ID and the only way I can get bets on are in other peoples
names .
I find all the bookmakers do not want to take a bet no matter the size if they think you have a clue
I hope that has answered your question and explains why I do not want them sharing my private data (I think they already abuse data protection with their use of cookies etc)
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Not really mate as you haven’t said how much you are wanting to take out per bet? Are we talking £1000 the night before a seller at Brighton etc or £250 on the first show? I ask that as some people genuinely think you should be able to get the same take out on a maiden at Wolves as the Derby or a Scottish Junior match as the CL Final, not going to happen is it. Lot of variables to this discussion. I agree that bookies want losers, would you want a customer who cost you money if you ran a pub or restaurant etc? It’s not a nice industry, you’ll know that.

Fair play to you, you must be a very good judge. I’ve put on for people in the past in shops (did it full time for 9 months 5 year back), if you ever want me to do that for you give me a shout.
 
Wazza said:
Not really mate as you haven’t said how much you are wanting to take out per bet? Are we talking £1000 the night before a seller at Brighton etc or £250 on the first show? I ask that as some people genuinely think you should be able to get the same take out on a maiden at Wolves as the Derby or a Scottish Junior match as the CL Final, not going to happen is it. Lot of variables to this discussion. I agree that bookies want losers, would you want a customer who cost you money if you ran a pub or restaurant etc? It’s not a nice industry, you’ll know that.

Fair play to you, you must be a very good judge. I’ve put on for people in the past in shops (did it full time for 9 months 5 year back), if you ever want me to do that for you give me a shout.
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I hardly ever bet before 9.00 am as it is the quickest way to be closed down .My stakes have been reducing year on year for the last 5 years due to restrictions/new level of stakes becoming the norm.
I never bet the night before ,in fact I sometime lay the horse I fancy to try and push out the price on betfair .
I understand your argument about a shop not wanting unprofitable business however bookmaker are supposed to be in the gambling business and it is not gambling if you can only lose.
Anyway good luck if you bet yourself as I think these new laws when they come in will be the end for me
 
somervillain said:
What, praise for someone resisting the temptation to inject themselves with poison is holding them to *high* standards?
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"Resisting the temptation". Jesus wept pal.

The man was on heroin. You make it sound like he was on a diet and managed not to reach for the biscuit tin.

You have no idea what you're talking about. And I don't mean that as a throwaway insult. You really don't.
 
I've registered with GAMSTOP but my exclusion ends next month. Will the online bookies know that I was registered with GAMSTOP and will it be easy to reactivate my online accounts?
 
Noddy said:
I've registered with GAMSTOP but my exclusion ends next month. Will the online bookies know that I was registered with GAMSTOP and will it be easy to reactivate my online accounts?
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Do yourself a favour and ask for another exclusion.

You’ll thank yourself later.
 
Just watched the documentary and it was eye-opening.
As someone with a history of addictive behaviour, I understand the compulsion element.
Just glad that gambling was never my thing.
 
Aztec said:
I hardly ever bet before 9.00 am as it is the quickest way to be closed down .My stakes have been reducing year on year for the last 5 years due to restrictions/new level of stakes becoming the norm.
I never bet the night before ,in fact I sometime lay the horse I fancy to try and push out the price on betfair .
I understand your argument about a shop not wanting unprofitable business however bookmaker are supposed to be in the gambling business and it is not gambling if you can only lose.
Anyway good luck if you bet yourself as I think these new laws when they come in will be the end for me
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Same to you pal. All the best for the future.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Do yourself a favour and ask for another exclusion.

You’ll thank yourself later.
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Yeah great advice. I did Gamstop for a year and once that year was up you can cancel and back to gambling after 24 hours. Needless to say within a few weeks I phoned them back up and signed up for 5 years. Online I have simply no control whereas if I walk in to a bookies every Saturday and stick on my £20 quid accumulator and thats me for the week no problem. Can't put my finger on why maybe its because I'm physically handing the money over and online that doesn't happen.
 
Noddy said:
I've registered with GAMSTOP but my exclusion ends next month. Will the online bookies know that I was registered with GAMSTOP and will it be easy to reactivate my online accounts?
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I registered for a year just to take a break as I was spending too much time and money on them.

In my experience its a ball ache getting them back open and I would just stick to shops.

Paddy Power/ Betfair and William hill wouldn't reopen my accounts

Ladbrokes B365 and Sky Bet would but heavily restricted in limits.

All operators followed the same process of waiting times and discussions with the compliance team
 
CooperTrueBlue said:
I registered for a year just to take a break as I was spending too much time and money on them.

In my experience its a ball ache getting them back open and I would just stick to shops.

Paddy Power/ Betfair and William hill wouldn't reopen my accounts

Ladbrokes B365 and Sky Bet would but heavily restricted in limits.

All operators followed the same process of waiting times and discussions with the compliance team
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What kind of limits did they impose? I was lucky if I was spending £30 a week, and more often than not it was £20.
 
Noddy said:
I wasn't a heavy gambler by any stretch. I just got bored with it and fancied a break.
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That's fine. But then why not just stop of your own accord? Why did you feel the need to ask for restrictions on your account?

Only you can tell if your gambling is/was getting out of control. But maybe getting your account restricted was your subconscious telling you something?
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
That's fine. But then why not just stop of your own accord? Why did you feel the need to ask for restrictions on your account?

Only you can tell if your gambling is/was getting out of control. But maybe getting your account restricted was your subconscious telling you something?
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It was too easy and I have a very boring job. I found myself gambling on utter nonsense and I was getting bored with it. As I said in another post, I was betting no more than £30 per week and my profit and loss was pretty much even.
 
Noddy said:
It was too easy and I have a very boring job. I found myself gambling on utter nonsense and I was getting bored with it. As I said in another post, I was betting no more than £30 per week and my profit and loss was pretty much even.
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Fair enough.

As you may have guessed, I'm a recovering gambling addict and I know how easy it is to get sucked in.

If you ever feel it's getting silly, please knock it on the head. If I had done that 10 years ago I'd be in a much better place right now.

Don't end up like me.
 
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