Reducing Squad Size While Improving Overall Quality.

[Raumdeuter]

I've been thinking a lot about how great it is for Rangers to finally have strength in depth again, it is genuinely the first time in a decade that we aren't seriously weakened by a couple of injuries or suspensions.

That being said, I do think the squad is still quite bloated, we are paying players that have no realistic chance of playing.

I think this might be quite a controversial example but when you think of our options at CB, both Katic and Edmundson are significantly weaker than Helander, Goldson and Balogun. Should we be looking to move both of these players on and bring in one player of higher quality to replace them both? We'd likely pay less wages and every CB at the club would have a realistic chance of game time leading to a happier squad.

The same can be said about Stewart, Jones and Barker. While they may have desirable qualities and be capable of doing a job, they aren't really anywhere near the players that are currently starting for us and could easily be replaced by 2 players.

Should this be our main focus over the next couple of windows? Of course we should look for absolute first teamers but I feel this would arguably see us improve even more than that at this stage.

 

[roscof]

I'd rather leave it alone, and progress the 2 boys already with us and
Include Leon King.

 

[Porto Loyal]

We need a squad to rotate

Stewart fills a home trained spot in Europe. Barker seems to be in favour with the manager.

Balogun is a short term signing due to Katic's injury

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

I've been thinking a lot about how great it is for Rangers to finally have strength in depth again, it is genuinely the first time in a decade that we aren't seriously weakened by a couple of injuries or suspensions.

That being said, I do think the squad is still quite bloated, we are paying players that have no realistic chance of playing.

I think this might be quite a controversial example but when you think of our options at CB, both Katic and Edmundson are significantly weaker than Helander, Goldson and Balogun. Should we be looking to move both of these players on and bring in one player of higher quality to replace them both? We'd likely pay less wages and every CB at the club would have a realistic chance of game time leading to a happier squad.

The same can be said about Stewart, Jones and Barker. While they may have desirable qualities and capable of doing a job, they aren't really anywhere near the players that are currently starting for us and could easily be replaced by 2 players.

Should this be our main focus over the next couple of windows? Of course we should look for absolute first teamers but I feel this would arguably see us improve even more than that at this stage.

Think your rather harsh on katic and edmundson. Both have been phenomenal, still young and viewed as long term prospects.

With Jones and barker, vital in squad rotation and if others are injured. Jones seems deadly when hes on his game.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

I think Katic and Edmundson were always brought in with a view to developing them and selling at the right time and to do that now would send out the wrong message to any potential youngsters we have similar plans for.

 

[Broxbound Bear]

I think we'll be seeing the back of Balogun after this season (my brain wants to call him Battle Gun) and Katic will step up. The boy is hungry and was going to be a monster this season.

Keep all 4.

 

[rangersforever73]

Players can go in and out of form, also injuries can happen at any time. it's always good to have strong replacements. It would be good to see more promotion from our youth ranks though.

 

[Raumdeuter]

I think Katic and Edmundson were always brought in with a view to developing them and selling at the right time and to do that now would send out the wrong message to any potential youngsters we have similar plans for.

They are 24 and 23, they're not really prospects anymore.

With both having glaring deficiencies in their game at this age, I think the club needs to be a bit more cutthroat.

Having them sit in the stands sends the wrong message too.

 

[Mearns Ranger]

I've been thinking a lot about how great it is for Rangers to finally have strength in depth again, it is genuinely the first time in a decade that we aren't seriously weakened by a couple of injuries or suspensions.

That being said, I do think the squad is still quite bloated, we are paying players that have no realistic chance of playing.

I think this might be quite a controversial example but when you think of our options at CB, both Katic and Edmundson are significantly weaker than Helander, Goldson and Balogun. Should we be looking to move both of these players on and bring in one player of higher quality to replace them both? We'd likely pay less wages and every CB at the club would have a realistic chance of game time leading to a happier squad.

The same can be said about Stewart, Jones and Barker. While they may have desirable qualities and capable of doing a job, they aren't really anywhere near the players that are currently starting for us and could easily be replaced by 2 players.

Should this be our main focus over the next couple of windows? Of course we should look for absolute first teamers but I feel this would arguably see us improve even more than that at this stage.

I agree with your sentiments and the players you’ve chosen, but I’d like to see Jones play more.
I would also like to see Mayo become our 4th centre back.

 

[Big Buff]

Lewis Mayo becomes the fourth choice if you're selling Katic and Edmundson.

You're not going to sign another Goldson-esque defender who'll be happy with 10 games a year.

 

[Melrose]

They are 24 and 23, they're not really prospects anymore.

With both having glaring deficiencies in their game at this age, I think the club needs to be a bit more cutthroat.

Having them sit in the stands sends the wrong message too.

Edmundson is very raw, but I think both he and Katic have tremendous potential, Katic is already more than capable pre injury. Our biggest threat at set pieces too.
Given our coaches ability to develop players, I'd stick with both & bring Mayo on.
What do you see as their glaring deficiencies?

 

[byebyethehihi]

You have to consider that this is not the finished article, the squad is as good as we csn remember but it is still in development I think.

Compare this summer's signings to two years ago.

 

[No.8]

I can’t believe anyone wants rid of Katic!! He could be a future star and one I’d certainly be keeping.

Having Barisic and Katic at the club makes us more appealing to Croatian players and they are one of the strongest European countries

 

[Raumdeuter]

I can’t believe anyone wants rid of Katic!! He could be a future star and one I’d certainly be keeping.

Having Barisic and Katic at the club makes us more appealing to Croatian players and they are one of the strongest European countries

His skillset is pretty much identical to the widely ridiculed Shane Duffys.

I like the guy a lot too, he is a grafter. That doesn't really mean he should be at the club anymore though.

 

[SirAlfredofMorelos]

I can see one of Katic or Edmundson going out on loan in January for experience (fitness for Katic). Stewart, Barker and Jones do need to be replaced for better quality. The drop off in quality from Kent and Hagi to those 3 is massive.

We do however need to try and find a decent homegrown player. It massively restricts our European squad (you need 4 club and 4 nation). Right now we just have
Club - McGregor and Patterson (doesn't need to be registered)
Nation - Jack, Arfield and Stewart

 

[BoyciesDa]

I think Katic and Edmundson were always brought in with a view to developing them and selling at the right time and to do that now would send out the wrong message to any potential youngsters we have similar plans for.

Developing a 23 and 24 year old ?

 

[Raumdeuter]

Edmundson is very raw, but I think both he and Katic have tremendous potential, Katic is already more than capable pre injury. Our biggest threat at set pieces too.
Given our coaches ability to develop players, I'd stick with both & bring Mayo on.
What do you see as their glaring deficiencies?

Neither are them are very good positionally, Katic has next to no ability on the ball and Edmundson has been all over the place at times last season.

I think we can get a player that's a similar age and more complete for the money we'd get for both of them.

 

[Raumdeuter]

Lewis Mayo becomes the fourth choice if you're selling Katic and Edmundson.

You're not going to sign another Goldson-esque defender who'll be happy with 10 games a year.

I disagree, Mayo needs to play as often as possible for another couple of seasons.

The ideal world is Balogun and a younger player being happy with 10-15 appearances each assuming that Goldson and Helander both perform well enough to keep them out of the team.

It's just an example but someone like Phillipe Sandler would be achievable and has a much higher ceiling than both CB's in question

 

[Big Buff]

I disagree, Mayo needs to play as often as possible for another couple of seasons.

The ideal world is Balogun and a younger player being happy with 10-15 appearances each assuming that Goldson and Helander both perform well enough to keep them out of the team.

It's just an example but someone like Phillipe Sandler would be achievable and has a much higher ceiling than both CB's in question

Sure, but there's no point pouring in resources to that 4th CB position when it's not going to see very much gametime. So you either plug it with Mayo or keep him developing and someone else takes that spot.

Sandler isn't going to develop either playing 10 - 15 games a season. He would also cost millions. It's not an efficient use of resources. You might get a better player for those 10 games, but that's not worth the couple of million he would cost.

 

[Melrose]

Neither are them are very good positionally, Katic has next to no ability on the ball and Edmundson has been all over the place at times last season.

I think we can get a player that's a similar age and more complete for the money we'd get for both of them.

I'd agree on the positional aspect, but that can be coached. They both have reasonable technical ability in my opinion, albeit still raw, and the athletic attributes that cannot be coached.
Disagree re Katic, he can pass ok, strike a ball and is excellent in the air. Will do fine alongside a player like Helander and add a goal threat, as Goldson has started to do this season.
We're in good shape at CH.
I'd like to see JJ get more game time at the other end of the park.

 

[Melrose]

I can’t believe anyone wants rid of Katic!! He could be a future star and one I’d certainly be keeping.

Having Barisic and Katic at the club makes us more appealing to Croatian players and they are one of the strongest European countries

This. Hopefully the big fella makes a full recovery from his ACL. I think he'll star for us for a couple of seasons then head off to the EPL or another top league, make us a fortune.

 

[Raumdeuter]

Sure, but there's no point pouring in resources to that 4th CB position when it's not going to see very much gametime. So you either plug it with Mayo or keep him developing and someone else takes that spot.

Sandler isn't going to develop either playing 10 - 15 games a season. He would also cost millions. It's not an efficient use of resources. You might get a better player for those 10 games, but that's not worth the couple of million he would cost.

You're coming at it assuming that this hypothetical player is a designated 4th choice for the entirety of his time here. Balogun will have a year left should we choose to extend his stay and we will do well to hold on to both of Helander and Goldson for an extended period of time.

Mayo wouldn't have his pathway blocked at all in this scenario, having both Katic and Edmundson at the club does this though.

Also, it was just an example but Sandler would be entering the last year of his deal and he has fallen out of favour at City. He would absolutely be gettable. He is also a player that has potential to become a first team regular and make us a big profit, you can't really say that for our current younger options

 

[KopGer]

I’ve said it often in the last week. I see no need to be unnecessarily negative given the recent trajectory of our season, but it’s clear some posters struggle to separate reality from fiction when viewing the long term prospects of certain players.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

Developing a 23 and 24 year old ?

Players are continually developing if coached properly, especially centre half’s who learn how to read the game as they come up against new experiences and quality players.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

They are 24 and 23, they're not really prospects anymore.

With both having glaring deficiencies in their game at this age, I think the club needs to be a bit more cutthroat.

Having them sit in the stands sends the wrong message too.

I would suggest in centre half terms they are.

Both Helander and Goldson are 27 and I would say at their most valuable in terms of re-sell.

 

[Raumdeuter]

I would suggest in centre half terms they are.

Both Helander and Goldson are 27 and I would say at their most valuable in terms of re-sell.

To me a prospect is a younger player that has shown real promise that can be nurtured and coached into something special, relative to the level they are playing at.

Katic and Edmundson aren't this, when you're 23/4 and still not good enough to be starting every week, you need to be moved on.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

To me a prospect is a younger player that has shown real promise that can be nurtured and coached into something special, relative to the level they are playing at.

Katic and Edmundson aren't this, when you're 23/4 and still not good enough to be starting every week, you need to be moved on.

Edmundson will get game time this season and Katic is out with a long term injury so I doubt either are going anywhere this season given the abundance of games we will play.

 

[Raumdeuter]

Edmundson will get game time this season and Katic is out with a long term injury so I doubt either are going anywhere this season given the abundance of games we will play.

Morelos, Kent, Aribo and Kamara are all either 23 or 24 and they have all proven themselves to be among our best players.

Katic and Edmundson at the same age have proven to be unready to play for Rangers regularly, why keep two players on the wage bill when we can streamline the squad to be more efficient? It's better for both players careers at this point too.

We have seen the benefit of having true strength in depth this season, I can't understand why we wouldnt want to go even further with this.

 

[roscof]

They are 24 and 23, they're not really prospects anymore.

With both having glaring deficiencies in their game at this age, I think the club needs to be a bit more cutthroat.

Having them sit in the stands sends the wrong message too.

2 points. CBs are at their peak at 27,28
Glaring deficiencies? Shite!!

 

[Raumdeuter]

2 points. CBs are at their peak at 27,28
Glaring deficiencies? Shite!!

So the justification for keeping 2 players with no real chance of ever playing for us regularly is that they're a couple of years away from their peak? Will they be happy to sit in the stands until then?

They are a waste of money at this point, we could easily replace them both with one player.

 

[iprod]

Who is all out of contract in the summer? Are these guys?

Stewart
Defoe
Arfield
Davis

Stewart and Defoe leaving alone frees up a lot of wages

Davis and Arfield are on big wages. But could maybe get another season out of both

 

[Raumdeuter]

Who is all out of contract in the summer? Are these guys?

Stewart
Defoe
Arfield
Davis

Stewart and Defoe leaving alone frees up a lot of wages

Davis and Arfield are on big wages. But could maybe get another season out of both

Add McGregor and Firth to that list too.

I'm fairly confident that Arfield has already earned a new deal.

Given Davis' age I would wait to see how Zungu settles before offering him another year

 

[cav]

I'd loan out Katic and Edmundson the second half of the season,and move Stewart and Barker on if possible.

Hopefully add a right sided attacker to the squad by way of a transfer in maybe a loan to buy
with Mayo stepping up to the first team squad.

 

[NDC bear forever]

I've been thinking a lot about how great it is for Rangers to finally have strength in depth again, it is genuinely the first time in a decade that we aren't seriously weakened by a couple of injuries or suspensions.

That being said, I do think the squad is still quite bloated, we are paying players that have no realistic chance of playing.

I think this might be quite a controversial example but when you think of our options at CB, both Katic and Edmundson are significantly weaker than Helander, Goldson and Balogun. Should we be looking to move both of these players on and bring in one player of higher quality to replace them both? We'd likely pay less wages and every CB at the club would have a realistic chance of game time leading to a happier squad.

The same can be said about Stewart, Jones and Barker. While they may have desirable qualities and be capable of doing a job, they aren't really anywhere near the players that are currently starting for us and could easily be replaced by 2 players.

Should this be our main focus over the next couple of windows? Of course we should look for absolute first teamers but I feel this would arguably see us improve even more than that at this stage.

Generally agree with your comments on the centre halfs. Not going to be popular but Katic‘s qualities aren’t suited to Rangers and, before his injury, I’d have looked to have sold him. The centre half situation is a bit complicated in the sense we have a huge talent in Leon King who signed a two year deal with the expectation of seeing some games within that period. I’d probably trigger Balogun’s contract, loan out Katic and keep Edmundson in the coming summer. The reason I’d keep five centre halves around as it is unfair to expect King to play 20 + games which could potentially happen in the event of our centre backs picking up injuries. He needs to be eased in.

 

[BoyciesDa]

Players are continually developing if coached properly, especially centre half’s who learn how to read the game as they come up against new experiences and quality players.

Only experience that when they play which they don’t

 

[Raumdeuter]

Generally agree with your comments on the centre halfs. Not going to be popular but Katic‘s qualities aren’t suited to Rangers and, before his injury, I’d have looked to have sold him.) Bit complicated in the sense we have a huge talent in Leon King who’s a centre half and having signed a two year deal will expect to see some games within that period. I’d probably trigger Balogun’s contract, loan out Katic and keep Edmundson in the coming summer. I’d keep five centre halves around as it is unfair to expect King to play 20 + games which could potentially happen in the event of our centre backs picking up injuries. He needs to be eased in.

King and Mayo are both in that boat though, this is why I see no room for either of Katic or Edmundson.

 

[Bulletproof]

How very much dare you suggest we move Katic on!!! Put him out in loan for a season then he will be ready to take over the mantle of our number 1 cb.

 

[Raumdeuter]

How very much dare you suggest we move Katic on!!! Put him out in loan for a season then he will be ready to take over the mantle of our number 1 cb.

With the greatest respect to Katic, he is a head it and kick it CB that doesn't know when not to rush out for a needless aerial duel.

No positional awareness and no passing ability, in what world will he ever be our number 1 CB?

 

[NDC bear forever]

King and Mayo are both in that boat though, this is why I see no room for either of Katic or Edmundson.

I‘d want Mayo to get a Premiership loan next season. Katic had a value of, imo, £4m before his injury. That’s going to be a lot less due to his injury and not knowing how he’ll recover which is why it makes perfect sense to loan him to somewhere like the English Championship and regain his value.

 

[Raumdeuter]

I‘d want Mayo to get a Premiership loan next season. Katic had a value of, imo, £4m before his injury. That’s going to be a lot less due to his injury and not knowing how he’ll recover which is why it makes perfect sense to loan him to somewhere like the English Championship and regain his value.

I can see this argument and I wouldn't be against that, I do think at least one of them should be moved on permanently though

 

[Dalmuirbear]

Only experience that when they play whichthey don’t

As I said above, 1 injured and prior to that played his part and the other will get game time this season.

let’s agree to disagree as we can go round in circles all night.

 

[Bulletproof]

With the greatest respect to Katic, he is a head it and kick it CB that doesn't know when not to rush out for a needless aerial duel.

No positional awareness and no passing ability, in what world will he ever be our number 1 CB?

I'm afraid I have Katic blinkers and logic isn't going to convince me otherwise. Saying that I do feel he can step it up considerably.

 

[cav]

Who is all out of contract in the summer? Are these guys?

Stewart
Defoe
Arfield
Davis

Stewart and Defoe leaving alone frees up a lot of wages

Davis and Arfield are on big wages. But could maybe get another season out of both

Arfield has another year according to transfermarkt.co.uk who are usually decent with that type of information.
Leaves Shagger,Davis,Stewart,Defoe and Firth I think.
We might be tested by bids for Borna and Kamara after the euros I'd expect also.

 

[Egt]

My plan for Katić would be to send him on loan to a meat and potatoes English Championship side, where he will look class and then we can sell him for a decent fee. I just don’t see him ever developing a skill set that will suit playing for us.

 

[Leith Ger]

I think at the end of the season we’ll give Balogun another years contract and loan out either Edmundson or Katic for the season.

I reckon Stewart will definitely go in January, possibly a loan to another Premier League club, and expect Jones will go in the summer too. Given that Barker never made the squad of 20 at the weekend and I’m not aware of an injury, Gerrard might be realising that he’s not good enough. I’d like to see him go.

Others like Barjonas and Middleton will also leave this summer I think.

 

[Bigmo1872]

They are 24 and 23, they're not really prospects anymore.

With both having glaring deficiencies in their game at this age, I think the club needs to be a bit more cutthroat.

Having them sit in the stands sends the wrong message too.

Glaring deficiencies? Please elaborate? Also Center half’s don’t become the finished article untill late 20s

 

[grascots]

I wouldn't be moving anyone out. We could be decimated at any time with Covid and the bigger the squad the more we can overcome missing key players.
Gaining CL qualification will dwarf the wages of a few supposedly surplus players. We have to be prudent in these times but getting rid of good squad players this season to save on wages would be utter madness.

 

[MearnsUnionist]

I'd rather leave it alone, and progress the 2 boys already with us and
Include Leon King.

Don't forget Lewis Mayo.

He's probably a better prospect than any of them.

 

[MearnsUnionist]

I think we'll be seeing the back of Balogun after this season (my brain wants to call him Battle Gun) and Katic will step up. The boy is hungry and was going to be a monster this season.

Keep all 4.

Balogun is a far superior central defender to Katic currently mate.

Way quicker, reads the game better and a far better passer of the ball.

I think Balogun may stay longer than one season, as 33 isn't particularly old for a central defender.

 

[Raumdeuter]

I wouldn't be moving anyone out. We could be decimated at any time with Covid and the bigger the squad the more we can overcome missing key players.
Gaining CL qualification will dwarf the wages of a few supposedly surplus players. We have to be prudent in these times but getting rid of good squad players this season to save on wages would be utter madness.

I personally don't consider players that nobody would choose to see start as good squad players.

Scott Arfield is an example of a great squad player, Katic and Edmundson aren't that.