Respective Wage Bills?

[BlueFlagHigh]

If we have as reported a wage bill roughly half of theirs , then it really would be an incredible achievement for Gerrard to win this league we all crave . I look at it now as one game at a time and keep them on the back foot . I want to see how they react to real pressure for the first time in almost a decade .

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

A big issue that’s creeping up on the mentally challengeds is their over reliance on selling a player each summer. They didn’t do that this year, and actually quite soon they could be in some bother.

By the time January comes, Edouard, Christie, Ajer and Ntcham will all have just 18 months to run on their contracts. The rumour is none of them seem willing to extend their deals which means they will be in a lot of pressure to offload soon.

They’re gonna have a heavy loss if they don’t sell at Xmas TJ, you’re absolutely right.

 

[brain]

According to Stuart Gibson, who's just invested in our club, our current wage bill is just under 50% of Celtic's.

A decent source that. The last figures I saw were about £35m vs £60m, dating from last season.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

The June 2019 accounts have total staff costs of £34m for us v £56m For Celtic for the 2018/19 season. It’s worth noting their £56m included £4m to directors that year and whatever they pay all of their retail staff, versus very little for us. So I think the gap in first team squad wages will be smaller.

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s a good thing that they are spending more on wages than us. They’ve clearly been able to run at a profit most years while spending those wages while doing it. Unless we find a way of closing that gap we’ll be relying on their incompetence to win trophies.

They only make a profit if they either make the CL Group, or sell a player for significant money mate.

Not sustainable.

 

[Blue Steel]

The June 2019 accounts have total staff costs of £34m for us v £56m For Celtic for the 2018/19 season. It’s worth noting their £56m included £4m to directors that year and whatever they pay all of their retail staff, versus very little for us. So I think the gap in first team squad wages will be smaller.

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s a good thing that they are spending more on wages than us. They’ve clearly been able to run at a profit most years while spending those wages while doing it. Unless we find a way of closing that gap we’ll be relying on their incompetence to win trophies.

We have found away of closing the gap mate , and haven’t seen the benefits of merchandise sales in many years which will far outway the staff costs for this , and you say we will be relying on their incompetence to win trophies , WTF do you think they have been doing since 2012 , oh when we were there of course

 

[Funky Gordon]

They've got like a baseline turnover of 60 million past 2/3 years outside of sales.

in 2018 without sales of Dembele/Armstrong..it would of been 63 million. in 2019 without sale of Tierney..it would of been 58 million turnover.

Outside of sales.Turnover would of been 58 million for Celtic and 53 for us last year. That's an extra cup final,10k extra seats and a better merch deal..not a huge gap outwith sales..4 or 5 million outwith sales. It's the sales that is the killer.

I think it will take a couple more years for us to catch up off the field and things to level out. They need to run out of sales or we need to start making some good ones.

Player sales aren’t included in the turnover figures that clubs report, so your adjustment down to £58m for Celtic’s turnover isn’t correct. Their turnover/revenue of £83m (2019) does though include £18m of retail income from their retail operations, versus very little for us at that time as ours was in chaos and is a different model anyway. They run the full operation so have £18m revenue less say as a guess £11m total costs whereas we outsource to Castore do would have maybe £5m revenue with zero costs. So a comparison of the revenue of the 2 clubs should be adjusted for that.

 

[Worthy_Candidate]

According to Stuart Gibson, who's just invested in our club, our current wage bill is just under 50% of Celtic's.

I wonder when Stuart did that comparison MU...?

Not doubting you but we must have added a fair old wedge to our payroll with Kemar and Itten coming on board. That said, the mentally challengeds will obviously have upped there wage bill in the summer - no big sales, Duffy on a reported £2m per annum, etc.

I still think we were banking on Morelos going to balance things. That said, full trust in those fine men in the boardroom.

 

[Funky Gordon]

They only make a profit if they either make the CL Group, or sell a player for significant money mate.

Not sustainable.

They’ve been doing it successfully for years and had £30m+ in the bank at the last accounts, albeit before the impact of the virus hit. They may down size a little here and there but we can’t rely on them coming back to us financially, we need to make up the ground ourselves.

 

[TranentGer]

Ross Wilson replacing Mark Allen has seen massive improvements on this front as well.

 

[Its-Sebo]

They’ve been doing it successfully for years and had £30m+ in the bank at the last accounts, albeit before the impact of the virus hit. They may down size a little here and there but we can’t rely on them coming back to us financially, we need to make up the ground ourselves.

Do we need to match their wage bill in order to be successful?

Their incompetence, as you put it, isn’t what’s saw us go 16 games unbeaten (13 clean sheets) and beating teams like Standard, Galatasaray, Porto etc. etc. etc. over the last couple seasons

 

[Funky Gordon]

Do we need to match their wage bill in order to be successful?

Their incompetence, as you put it, isn’t what’s saw us go 16 games unbeaten (13 clean sheets) and beating teams like Standard, Galatasaray, Porto etc. etc. etc. over the last couple seasons

Having a higher wage bill is only ever an advantage, assuming you can afford it. They might not always use it well but we’ll be fighting against the odds each season if they can afford to spend an extra £10m or £15m each season on player wages. I don’t think we should be accepting it as a good thing or unimportant.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

They’ve been doing it successfully for years and had £30m+ in the bank at the last accounts, albeit before the impact of the virus hit. They may down size a little here and there but we can’t rely on them coming back to us financially, we need to make up the ground ourselves.

I know that mate, I check their accounts each year to see when they’re providing for the children they abused.

All I’m saying is, to build a business plan on the basis of selling a player / players for 20m plus every year can’t be sustained long term.

After Edouard, who else will get them that ?

 

[Funky Gordon]

I know that mate, I check their accounts each year to see when they’re providing for the children they abused.

All I’m saying is, to build a business plan on the basis of selling a player / players for 20m plus every year can’t be sustained long term.

After Edouard, who else will get them that ?

We’ve seen similar arguments before about after Tierney or after Dembele who will they sell. They’ve been doing it well enough for years. I expect us to follow a similar model when the directors stop investing £10m worth in newly issued shares to plug the financial gap each year.

 

[Jules Winfield]

Celtic are paying 100% of his wages. He confirmed this himself on Twitter.

I know he confirmed this but did he say how much he earned ?

 

[cloodie]

This Record article quotes them as spending 59.3M in 2018. That's got to be edging nearer 70M by now given how profligate they have been in signing this season. Given their dreadful lack of quality on the park, that's nothing short of scandalous.

Lazio’s wage bill has been released ahead of Celtic showdown

Simone Inzaghi’s squad includes superstars such as Sergej Milinkovic-Savic and Lucas Leiva.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

It dropped to £56m the following year. I wouldn't be surprised if it's gone back up though.

It should be noted, this is the entire wage bill, not just the playing staff.

 

[Scott196]

From the Scotsman in January 2020.

Interesting to see that they pay more basic than an EPL club who get circa £100m a year from the EPL

The organisation's big takeaway from the survey was that "Rangers are closing the gap on Celtic".
In the past year, Sporting Intelligence reckon the Ibrox side, fresh off beating their rivals 2-1 at Parkhead, have closed the gap on the Scottish champions by around 16 per cent when it comes to wage bills.

"In last year’s GSSS, published in November, we calculated the average basic first-team pay at Ibrox to be £466,556, against a figure of £865,614 at Celtic," the organisation said. "That meant Rangers were spending around 54 per cent of the Celtic figure. But that was on a squad after the 2018 summer transfer window. By the time the season was over, with ins and outs in the January transfer window, not least Jermain Defe and Steven Davis arriving at Ibrox, we reckoned the differential was something closer to 60 per cent, and perhaps a bit more.

"Now we have the official financial statements for both clubs for the 2018-19 season, it seems that was pretty much right. Rangers’ club wage bill of £34.5m was 61.5 per cent of Celtic’s wage bill of £59m.

"So to this season, where we calculate Rangers wages have climbed a significant 39 per cent from September last season to September this season, up to £649,771 average first-team basic. Celtic’s have grown but not by much to £895,564 average first-team basic. We reckon the ratio of Rangers’ salaries to Celtic’s is now above 70 per cent, and depending what happens in the winter window, might yet be higher.

"The full range of salaries in the Scottish top division is just remarkable. Celtic pay more per man, basic, than Sheffield United of the English Premier League, while the seven lowest Scottish Premiership spenders pay less than quite a few teams in the fifth tier of English football."

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

We’ve seen similar arguments before about after Tierney or after Dembele who will they sell. They’ve been doing it well enough for years. I expect us to follow a similar model when the directors stop investing £10m worth in newly issued shares to plug the financial gap each year.

I agree with you, but at a lower, less risky level.

We don’t want to put 20m on our wage bill to compete with them. We’re doing just fine.

What we do have is something like 100m of player value now, so there is much more security about our finances than there has been in well over a decade.

So we are ready to compete on that basis, but with much less of an overhead base / risk.

 

[Alex Venters]

Dave King said they were built on a house of cards

A house of cards if fine if there's nobody to knock one over. They've been in that situation for nearly 10 years.

 

[Alex Venters]

They've got like a baseline turnover of 60 million past 2/3 years outside of sales.

in 2018 without sales of Dembele/Armstrong..it would of been 63 million. in 2019 without sale of Tierney..it would of been 58 million turnover.

Outside of sales.Turnover would of been 58 million for Celtic and 53 for us last year. That's an extra cup final,10k extra seats and a better merch deal..not a huge gap outwith sales..4 or 5 million outwith sales. It's the sales that is the killer.

I think it will take a couple more years for us to catch up off the field and things to level out. They need to run out of sales or we need to start making some good ones.

I'd rather have trophies on the pitch than match them off it.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

I'd rather have trophies on the pitch than match them off it.

Agree Alex.

I think our business plan can do both.

 

[Laudrup1]

I doubt very much if ours is 30M just yet going off last years accounts, but certainly heading there so a pretty good guess!

From the 2019 accounts, total revenue was only 53M and first-team wages was about 43% of turnover (22.8M).

Strangely, first-team wages were less in 2019 than in 2018 if I recall.

I think you might be thinking of overall staff costs that were reported as 34M for 2019 (I think).

What were the squad sizes in 18 and 19? I'd have to go back and check but there was a massive clear out one summer after Gerrard came in. Was there a year delay to the likes of the Mexicans finally leaving the wage bill and SG having been here?

 

[I believe in Eli]

Yahoos wage bill must be around £60-65m a year now. They’ve not really offloaded anyone significant and spent well over £20m since January.

£5.5m for Soro and Klimala, £5m for Barkas, £5m for Ajeti, £2m loan fee & 40k a week for Duffy and probably similar if not more for the Elyounoussi and Laxalt loans.

Add to that to a percentage of wages they are still paying for guys like Shevd and Bolingoli who cost £5m in fees between them and are now out on loan to other clubs. They also still have two American players who’ve not actually kicked a ball for them on loan as well.

Rangers winning the league this season will be a financial hammer blow for them as the 2nd placed side won’t be seeded in champions league qualifying next summer.

There spent so much money, have a massive squad with commensurate wage bill, yet three of their starters are loans!!!

 

[Walters80]

That is a great summary of the actual situation. Make no mistake they are in trouble even in the unlikely event that they win the league this season. There will have to be a massive clearout and the Lego will also be going.
The wage situation is mental and not sustainable and only top ups from Desmond will save them.

To be honest I think it’s more likely that Desmond will demand severe cutbacks and sales before he puts in anything particularly if Rangers are well ahead come January.

Milan and Lille will also qualify from their group as well which means the only source of substantial income they will have with no fans allowed between Jan-June is selling players in the next window.

If they have structured the Elyounoussi and Laxalt deals anything like Duffy’s they’ll be paying 100-120 thousand a week just for these 3 players alone which is utter madness.

The fag packet accountants in the yahoo support are in for a huge reality check. If we win the league and qualify for the CL next summer we’ll dominate Scottish football for several years at least while they have to downsize and start again with a new manager at the helm.

 

[Walters80]

There spent so much money, have a massive squad with commensurate wage bill, yet three of their starters are loans!!!

Yep and two of them cost their parent clubs over £30,000,000 in fees so I’d imagine the yahoos are picking up a huge amount of wages for Elyounoussi and Laxalt added to Duffy’s as well.

Elyounoussi was rumoured to be on £75,000 a week down south, they’ll be picking up at the very least £40,000 a week if not more.

Utter madness from them.

 

[cloodie]

From the Scotsman in January 2020.

Interesting to see that they pay more basic than an EPL club who get circa £100m a year from the EPL

It looks like they're mistakenly attributing the wage bill to the playing staff rather than all the staff within the organisation.

 

[Its-Sebo]

Having a higher wage bill is only ever an advantage, assuming you can afford it. They might not always use it well but we’ll be fighting against the odds each season if they can afford to spend an extra £10m or £15m each season on player wages. I don’t think we should be accepting it as a good thing or unimportant.

That adds a bit more clarity to your point, it is only an advantage. Although it should certainly be considered a good thing that we're achieving (so far) on a much lower budget – it means the club is being well run and providing we've got the right structure in place, that'll continue to be the case.

 

[Gogso]

Apparently they all got a hike in their monthly salary.

Ajer got a Lady Godiva, McGregor an Ayrton Senna and Christie got a monkey.

Don't know what that means but christie already had the monkey face.

 

[Gogso]

I understand it was a 2m loan payment to Brighton and 50k a week to be paid by them.
No motorbike to get up and down the park was included.

He must have brought his own caravan (to tow & live in)

 

[TranentGer]

I'd rather have trophies on the pitch than match them off it.

It's not going to take long for us to overtake them on both fronts.

 

[Euro Scooter]

The annual Sporting Finances document for 2019 estimates our first team wages at 70% of the beasts.

Average annual first team player salary at RFC = £650 000 (weekly = £12 500)

Average annual first team player salary at beasts = £895 500 (weekly = £17 225)

They have a larger squad though. I imagine the 2020 figures will not show much change. No surprise ours took a jump with Gerrard's arrival, doubling from a reported weekly average of £6 300 in 2017.

No doubt we have spent our money much more wisely. We assembled a team, they bought a rabble.

 

[DaMarcus]

Didn't realise all their 'big assets' were on such short contracts. Oh dear.

As you say, January might be their last chance to get big fees. Afer that, with only 12 months left, it's unlikely anyone's going to bid big and the players might prefer to hold off for a pre contract that will assure them higher wages.

Interesting indeed.

Worth remembering PSG have a 40% sell on fee for Edouard. Why they were touting him at £40m this summer and no-one came in for him.

 

[FalkirkLoyal]

I know he confirmed this but did he say how much he earned ?

Nah not that I’ve seen, widely reported to be 40-50k a week tho. Another terrible bit of business from that lot.