Rangers History Ronnie McKinnon - Rangers Centre Half 1962-71

The McKinnon v McNeill debate

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Even today it is often discussed, sometimes hotly disputed, as to who was the better centre half during that period.
Here is my take on it.

Billy McNeill was a very good Centre Half, commanding in the air, an inspired Captain, a good leader, and he chipped in with a few important goals over the years.
As a defender, he had his weaknesses though, he was often destroyed by the sheer power, strength and guile of Jimmy Millar,
he was taken to the cleaners a few times, by a speedy two footed teenager called Jim Forrest.
As much as Stein saw the leadership qualities in McNeill, he was smart enough to see his weaknesses as well, and set about playing the unheralded, but vitally important, John Clark behind him, as a sweeper.
Even with all his experience and aerial command, McNeill (along with Jim Craig), could not prevent a 16 year old from out-jumping them both, to head the winner in the 1970 League Cup Final


Ronnie McKinnon was an excellent Centre Half, a cool, composed, determined, intelligent player. He tackled fairly and often, he had great pace, and also knew when to kick the ball clean out of touch, to yon folk up there in the seats.
In spite of being a couple inches short of 6ft, McKinnon was very good in the air. He read the game very well, and did his job with precision, rarely exposed, he would collect that ball, feed it to Greig, Baxter, Dave Smith, and let them do the rest.

It was Jock Stein (Whilst manager of both Celtic and Scotland) who gave Ronnie McKinnon his International debut, at the expense of McNeill.....and this was no meaningless Friendly, to bring in the untried,
this was a must win World Cup Qualifier at home to Italy.
The previous match had seen Stein go with McNeill in the World Cup Qualifier v Poland at Hampden.
McNeill with 19 Caps had now fashioned Scotland's Centre Half berth as his own, having been selected in all of the last six internationals.
Indeed it was McNeill who opened the scoring, after only 5 mins to give Scotland the lead and well on our way to England 66'.
Unfortunately, two errors in the last 5 mins, gave Poland a surprising, and devastating 2-1 win.
Scotland's next match was a must win, and Stein opted to drop his Captain, and introduce Ronnie McKinnon of Rangers, to International football.
McKinnon did not disappoint, as he and his fellow team mates Greig, and Provan restricted the Italians to zero.
It was John Greig who scored that famous winner in the 88th minute.

Despite the competition around at the time, Billy McNeill, Jackie McGrory, Ron Yeats, Ian Ure, Frank McLintock etc.
Ronnie McKinnon was above all of them, and would get the nod in 17 of the next 19 Internationals that Scotland played between that World Cup qualifier v Italy in Nov 65' until the WCQ v West Germany in April 69'.
And lest we forget, He was very much a part of that fantastic Half Back Line of Greig, McKinnon, Baxter, that annihilated the World Champions 3-2 in their own backyard at Wembley 67'.
Despite McNeill picking up all the trophies, and accolades during that period, there was simply no contest, as to who was the better Centre Half.

After missing out on the Home Internationals in May 69', McKinnon returned to national service in Sept , and would start in all the next 9 Games for Scotland, between Sept 69' and April 71'.
Once again he would miss out on the Home Internationals in May 71', as Frank McLintock, who had led Arsenal to a historic Double, for only the second time it had been achieved so far, that Century, was brought in.
Scotland failed miserably, drawing 0-0 with Wales, losing 0-1 to Northern Ireland at Hampden, and losing 1-3 to the English at Wembley.
McKinnon was back in the Scotland team for the European Qualifier v Denmark in June 71', and for the friendly v Russia.

On November 3rd 1971, Ronnie McKinnon suffered a double fracture of the right leg, in a European Cup Winners Cup tie.
His career was abruptly ended!

During the time that both Billy McNeill, and Ronnie McKinnon were vying for that Centre Half spot for Scotland, the much less decorated McKinnon, won four times as many Caps for Scotland.
Ronnie McKinnon collected 28 Caps, between 1965 and 1971 whilst McNeill won 7 Caps during that well decorated span of his career.
Of McNeill's other 22 Caps, 19 came before McKinnon had played for Scotland, and 3 more came in the 72' Home Internationals after McKinnon was finished.

Billy McNeill got 29 Scotland Caps, in an 11 year International career, from the time he made his debut in that 3-9 Loss to England in 61', until a much more respectful 0-1 loss to England in 72'

Ronnie McKinnon got 28 Scotland Caps, in half that time, between Nov 65' and June 71'.

They were both good, but McKinnon was better, far better!
Met him at a NARSA convention asked him who was his hardest guy to play against and it was John Hughes was the best he played against
 
Met him at a NARSA convention asked him who was his hardest guy to play against and it was John Hughes was the best he played against
Remember big Yogi giving Kai Johansen a real roasting first time they matched up.Kai said after the game
he will never do that again,and he never did.Kai snuffed him out every time they met after that.:)
 
I’ll tell ye whit....he was much taller than 5ft 10.
6’ 2” or 3” for sure
In the famous 67 Wembley game although others got deserved praise for their performances, the last time I watched that game I thought he was magnificent.

I'm surprised he's listed as being 5'10". I'd have thought he was at least an inch taller than that.

5' 10" ??.... would never have believed that.. alwaays a giant to me, then again, I was only 9 in 66.

Aye. That's more like it mate, 5'11.5" or 6' dead. No way he's 5' 10".


You are all correct.
See Post # 63

Quote from the Big Man himself

"It was the training at Rangers - I'm serious - that made me shoot up. My muscles and my legs just sprouted. I'm six feet tall. There is a history book about Rangers players which has me at 5ft 10½ but that's wrong. I was 5ft 10½ at aged 16 or 17 but going to Rangers made me taller. The training made me go up the way."
 
Met him at a NARSA convention asked him who was his hardest guy to play against and it was John Hughes was the best he played against
Did you have a celtic tammy on, when you asked him that;)
That's some accolade for John Hughes,
considering that McKinnon faced not only some of the best forwards of the 1960's, but some of the greatest of all time, in Puskas, Di Stefano, Pele, Eusebio, Muller and Greaves!
 
I'm bumping this for the benefit of those claiming on another thread that McKinnon was a punt up the park player!
Those claiming that McKinnon was just a 'punt up the park' player obviously never knew his footballing background as a very composed half back before Scot Symon converted him into a top class centre half
 
Did you have a celtic tammy on, when you asked him that;)
That's some accolade for John Hughes,
considering that McKinnon faced not only some of the best forwards of the 1960's, but some of the greatest of all time, in Puskas, Di Stefano, Pele, Eusebio, Muller and Greaves!
Whenever he was asked that question at our Lewis and Harris RSC functions he always said John Hughes was his toughest opponent
 
Whenever he was asked that question at our Lewis and Harris RSC functions he always said John Hughes was his toughest opponent
I don't doubt he said that, I'm just surprised that he would go for Hughes, given the quality of players he faced during his career.
I have read that Hughes gave McKinnon a torrid time in one of his earliest Old Firm games, but I am not aware of him doing that at any other time. In fact the first dozen times they faced each other, Hughes was on the winning side only once, with Rangers winning 9 of the 12 games.
I reckon they faced each other around 30 times, with Hughes getting on the scoresheet 6 times, though 3 of them were from the penalty spot, and another was a weak shot that Ritchie fumbled and allowed it to trickle into the goal.
 
;)

My memory isn't that good,
though I do remember more about the 1960's/70's than I do about say the last 6 or 7 years!

Those stats come from books.

For the record here are the guys who lined up alongside McKinnon the most (at least 100 Games).

..................................................Ritchie

.........Johansen.............McKinnon........D.Smith......................Provan

.......................Greig..........................................Baxter

Henderson...................Forrest..............Johnston...................Wilson

Subs. N.Martin, B.Shearer, W.Mathieson, S.Jardine, A.Penman, G.McLean, J.Millar, R.Brand, C.Stein.
Wish that team was playing this season
 
I was in his company in south Africa, he looked a million dollars with the tan & he was dressed immaculately, I think he was a car salesman at that point.
A mate of mine played under him at Durban city .
Great player for us
 
I’ll tell you how good he was - we hardly noticed him! During Baxter’s time, Ronnie would usually spray the ball about from the back and it tended to go towards Slim Jim on the left. I presume this was because the left hand side of Eric Caldow and Jimmie was more attacking than Shearer and Davis or Greig on the right. Ronnie tended to tower over most centre forwards, even though he wasn’t tall by today’s standards, but his lanky, slim body seemed to make him taller. He had a no nonsense approach to football and it served us well. I don’t recall him going up for corners. I presume this was because Jimmy Miller and Ralphie Brand were good headers of a ball, as was Davie Wilson.
 
Was his brother a good player?

Random story, but me and the wife were in Paisley one Sunday afternoon ( just as covid lockdown had began if I recall correctly) and bumped in to a gentleman called Donnie. He was an older guy and looked a bit lost.

Me and the wife asked if he was ok and he told us he was trying to get back to Renfrew. Anyway, he gave me a mobile number to call to see if someone could come and help him get home (no idea how he remembered it) but it got me through to a woman with a South African accent who explained the situation and where Donnie lived and his memory was going in his old age. The woman mentioned Donnie was her husbands brother.

In the back of my car to Renfrew Donnie was telling me he played for Patrick Thistle and I think he coached them as well. Was keeping him talking and asking him loads of questions about his career.

Anyway - dropped him at his house where I think it was his daughter was waiting on him.

When I got home I googled him and seen he was Ronnie’s brother.

Cool sorry bro, but seen the the poster mention he met him in SA and it made me think that’s where Ronnie may have met his wife.
 
If he was our centre half today, someone would come and take him away from us. He was a magnificent player. A real colossus.
No doubt about it.
I'd say he was arguably the best Centre Half in Britain 1965-71
The English had Jack Charlton, and Brian Labone, the Welsh had Mike England, Northern Ireland had Terry Neill, whilst Scotland had McNeill, Ron Yeats, Ian Ure and Frank McLintock to choose from, and I think McKinnon was better than all of them.
 
Was his brother a good player?

Random story, but me and the wife were in Paisley one Sunday afternoon ( just as covid lockdown had began if I recall correctly) and bumped in to a gentleman called Donnie. He was an older guy and looked a bit lost.

Me and the wife asked if he was ok and he told us he was trying to get back to Renfrew. Anyway, he gave me a mobile number to call to see if someone could come and help him get home (no idea how he remembered it) but it got me through to a woman with a South African accent who explained the situation and where Donnie lived and his memory was going in his old age. The woman mentioned Donnie was her husbands brother.

In the back of my car to Renfrew Donnie was telling me he played for Patrick Thistle and I think he coached them as well. Was keeping him talking and asking him loads of questions about his career.

Anyway - dropped him at his house where I think it was his daughter was waiting on him.

When I got home I googled him and seen he was Ronnie’s brother.

Cool sorry bro, but seen the the poster mention he met him in SA and it made me think that’s where Ronnie may have met his wife.
Donnie was a good solid Centre half.
 
No doubt about it.
I'd say he was arguably the best Centre Half in Britain 1965-71
The English had Jack Charlton, and Brian Labone, the Welsh had Mike England, Northern Ireland had Terry Neill, whilst Scotland had McNeill, Ron Yeats, Ian Ure and Frank McLintock to choose from, and I think McKinnon was better than all of them.
Ronnie McKinnon was immense ahead of his time great awareness if he played today Man City top centre half level.
 
Lucky to have seen him play. Great player for the famous. Govan boy, played for The Ben's, film star looks.
Better than Billy McBungle any day of the week. Great in the air, great pace.
One of our own.
 
Can't remember if I've already posted this. I'm friends with the old hivs centre Neil Martin. He told me there was no comparison. Told me with McNeill you were always going to get chances, with McKinnon you never got a sniff, very quick and good in the air.
 
If anyone wants to see how good McKinnon was, watch again the famous ‘67 international at Wembley. He was at least as good as anyone on that park.
The game of course is probably best known for Baxter's micky taking, however having watched the match a number of times, Man of the Match for me was between Greig, Law, or as you say McKinnon.
 
Was his brother a good player?

Random story, but me and the wife were in Paisley one Sunday afternoon ( just as covid lockdown had began if I recall correctly) and bumped in to a gentleman called Donnie. He was an older guy and looked a bit lost.

Me and the wife asked if he was ok and he told us he was trying to get back to Renfrew. Anyway, he gave me a mobile number to call to see if someone could come and help him get home (no idea how he remembered it) but it got me through to a woman with a South African accent who explained the situation and where Donnie lived and his memory was going in his old age. The woman mentioned Donnie was her husbands brother.

In the back of my car to Renfrew Donnie was telling me he played for Patrick Thistle and I think he coached them as well. Was keeping him talking and asking him loads of questions about his career.

Anyway - dropped him at his house where I think it was his daughter was waiting on him.

When I got home I googled him and seen he was Ronnie’s brother.

Cool sorry bro, but seen the the poster mention he met him in SA and it made me think that’s where Ronnie may have met his wife.
Donnie McKinnon was a mainstay in a decent Partick Thistle side throughout the 1960's.
Played over 300 games, and was captain in more than half of those.
Hall of Famer as part of the squad that beat Celtic in the 1971-72 League Cup Final, though he did not play in that game.
Had a testimonial against Manchester Utd in 1973, George Best and all.
 
Donnie McKinnon was a mainstay in a decent Partick Thistle side throughout the 1960's.
Played over 300 games, and was captain in more than half of those.
Hall of Famer as part of the squad that beat Celtic in the 1971-72 League Cup Final, though he did not play in that game.
Had a testimonial against Manchester Utd in 1973, George Best and all.
He was Thistle's physio for a long spell, and would take private patients to supplement his earnings. I had picked up a pretty serious groin injury playing amateur in 1984. 9 months later I was getting nowhere with little help from my GP,or NHS [sound familiar] and decided to ask D McK for help, so I ended up having Thistle's physio investigating my nether region. Ooooooh matron.
 
Donnie took a bad concussion against Aberdeen when Ernie Winchester (another bull in a china shop player} banged heads with him, don't think he was the same player after that.
He could have been a Rangers player but Thistle got to him first.
 
Great summary of the career of Ronnie MacKinton, on the saday announcement of his death. Well worth a read , rememberIng great days and games.
 
Was his brother a good player?

Random story, but me and the wife were in Paisley one Sunday afternoon ( just as covid lockdown had began if I recall correctly) and bumped in to a gentleman called Donnie. He was an older guy and looked a bit lost.

Me and the wife asked if he was ok and he told us he was trying to get back to Renfrew. Anyway, he gave me a mobile number to call to see if someone could come and help him get home (no idea how he remembered it) but it got me through to a woman with a South African accent who explained the situation and where Donnie lived and his memory was going in his old age. The woman mentioned Donnie was her husbands brother.

In the back of my car to Renfrew Donnie was telling me he played for Patrick Thistle and I think he coached them as well. Was keeping him talking and asking him loads of questions about his career.

Anyway - dropped him at his house where I think it was his daughter was waiting on him.

When I got home I googled him and seen he was Ronnie’s brother.

Cool sorry bro, but seen the the poster mention he met him in SA and it made me think that’s where Ronnie may have met his wife.
Knew Donnie back in the day growing up in Pollok. He always had a wee kick about. Ronnie wouldn't as he had just signed for Rangers.
 
Former Rangers defender Ronnie McKinnon recounts the day the Scots humbled Sir Alf Ramsey's England at Wembley
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Ronnie McKinnon helped swell the heart of a nation but a beaming smile of pride spotted from the team bus remains his most cherished memory of Scotland’s greatest victory.
Manager Bobby Brown, in his first game in charge, gathered a Scottish team under the sorcery of Jim Baxter and set about writing football history.
The Scots were crowned unofficial champions of the world, handing Sir Alf Ramsay’s side their first defeat on their own turf just 10 months after Bobby Moore lifted Jules Rimet’s golden wings at Wembley.
Unexpected? Bonnie Prince Charlie had taken his troops as far south as Derby more than 200 years previously, but this was a march to the very heart of the English establishment few saw coming.
Tony Queen, the bookie, in the days running up to the Home International – with Scotland were long odds to win at 4-1, with half-time and full-time pushed out to eights.

Former Rangers defender McKinnon, said: “We had England on the back foot for most of the game - and in our back pockets too.
“The Scotland fans loved it and none moreso than my father, Murdo. He and my mother, Annie, came to watch me play almost every game for Rangers at Ibrox, but they never travelled away from home.
“The game at Wembley was the only time my father watched me play an away game in his life and it meant a lot to me not to have let him down.
“He was a solitary man, friendly and social, but most happy in his own company. He travelled to London on his own and as I left Wembley to travel to the after match function with the team, I spotted to him waving to me from the crowd.
“It was a wonderful feeling to see my father so chuffed for me, his son. It meant a helluva lot.
“We were no hopers that day yet showed the World Cup winners how to play football. Has there ever been a better performance from a Scotland team? I think not.”

McKinnon, who made his debut in the famous 1-0 win over Italy at Hampden in 1965, won a total of 28 caps for Scotland and Wembley was his finest hour and a half.
How quaint it seems now to suggest the Scots were heading into the game on the back of an inferiority complex given all Ramsay’s wingless wonders had achieved the previous year.
Admittedly, England were on a run of games without defeat that stretched to 19 before the Scots came calling.

McKinnon said: “Greigy and I were so used to Jim doing what he did. He liked nothing better than taking the mickey – and the more high profile the game, the more likely he was to do it. He was the master. It was the Jim Baxter Show.
“Denis was particularly upset. He genuinely believed we could have scored three more but because of Jim’s carry on we didn’t get the scoreline we deserved. Denis told him: ‘Look Jim, chuck the showboating now - let’s score goals.’ It went in one ear and out the other. With Baxter in that mood, nothing could stop him.
“Jim was so in command he over ruled the whole lot of us. We took them to the cleaners. It was laughable – and they were world champions.
“Ramsay was so anti-Baxter he referred to him as ‘that man’. He knew his danger. We trounced England. They were made to bow down and accept we were the superior side.
“The English complained the early injury to Jack Charlton seriously hampered them but, come on, he was still their best player on the field that day.
“Greigy and I were like brothers. Yes, we were up against Jimmy Greaves and Geoff Hurst but we knew each other’s game perfectly. It was a great result for Scotland and yet never properly acknowledged by the SFA.

All 10 outfield players celebrate, with McKinnon behind Denis Law
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McCreadie Bremner Greig Lennox Law McKinnon Wallace Baxter Gemmell and McCalliog
 
He looked better in the previous strip.
Just for you
IMG_0793.jpeg
There was some impressive Half Back Lines in Britain throughout the 1960's
Blanchflower, Norman, MacKay, at Tottenham
Smith, Yeats, and Stevenson, at Liverpool
Bremner, Charlton, Hunter, at Leeds
Crerand, Foulkes, and Stiles, at Man Utd
Murdoch, McNeill and Clark at Celtic,
but there was none better than what Mr Symon put together at Ibrox,
GREIG, McKINNON, BAXTER
 
Just for you​
IMG_0793.jpeg
There was some impressive Half Back Lines in Britain throughout the 1960's
Blanchflower, Norman, MacKay, at Tottenham
Smith, Yeats, and Stevenson, at Liverpool
Bremner, Charlton, Hunter, at Leeds
Crerand, Foulkes, and Stiles, at Man Utd
Murdoch, McNeill and Clark at Celtic,
but there was none better than what Mr Symon put together at Ibrox,
GREIG, McKINNON, BAXTER
 
Just for you​
IMG_0793.jpeg
There was some impressive Half Back Lines in Britain throughout the 1960's
Blanchflower, Norman, MacKay, at Tottenham
Smith, Yeats, and Stevenson, at Liverpool
Bremner, Charlton, Hunter, at Leeds
Crerand, Foulkes, and Stiles, at Man Utd
Murdoch, McNeill and Clark at Celtic,
but there was none better than what Mr Symon put together at Ibrox,
GREIG, McKINNON, BAXTER
I just knew you would be on this thread.
 
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