Sands reminiscent of Bocanegra

I always thought this was a very bold OP.

Having seen a lot of him in the high pressure situation of being a consistent Rangers centre back - right now, he's not good enough to play for us.

Back up, aye. But he's not a starting player and is miles off it. He does some things very well, but he's got a few bombscares in him each game and that's miles off the required standard.

His reading of the game is generally pretty decent, and he's a strong lad for not being so large - so in time I think he'll be a good player.
 
Arlo said:
How about we actually use facts and evidence rather than a dislike and overreacting on a player ahead of others who actually performed worse but get a bye somehow? Nobody was totally polished, but is Sands deserving of criticism?

This video shows you're talking absolute shite.


Loads of very good tackles and some quality passing whilst granted it could be better it was much better than some of his team mates, who he bailed out on occasion with some good rescue tackling. Have a watch again at the below, it might uncloud your judgement.

Tav, McLaughlin, Goldson and Kent put him in difficult positions with shite passes and he rescued the ball. All of these players played passes much worse than Sands on the night.

Every header you refer to? I could 4 and he won 3 of them?

Polished, nope I don't think anyone was.
But was he rubbish and deserving of criticism above others? definitely not.
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Excellent post!
 
Arlo said:
How about we actually use facts and evidence rather than a dislike and overreacting on a player ahead of others who actually performed worse but get a bye somehow? Nobody was totally polished, but is Sands deserving of criticism?

This video shows you're talking absolute shite.


Loads of very good tackles and some quality passing whilst granted it could be better it was much better than some of his team mates, who he bailed out on occasion with some good rescue tackling. Have a watch again at the below, it might uncloud your judgement.

Tav, McLaughlin, Goldson and Kent put him in difficult positions with shite passes and he rescued the ball. All of these players played passes much worse than Sands on the night.

Every header you refer to? I could 4 and he won 3 of them?

Polished, nope I don't think anyone was.
But was he rubbish and deserving of criticism above others? definitely not.
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Clearly had a very good game while making a couple of mistakes, it happens. Can also see he bailed a few others out after their slack passes but it’s only Sands who’s getting stick for slack passes. Let the boy play.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Not for me, saw enough on Tuesday to know he's not good enough to hold down a regular position.

If you can't play a pass and be confident on the ball by his age, it ain't ever going to happen. We need to be honest with ourselves.

Ok squad player, but pretty much played like Simpson against a pretty weak team.

Soutar we know can defend, just needs to get fit and also he's had a few personal issues
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I guess you were saying the same about Calvin Bassey 12 - 18 months ago.
Have a watch of the video above, he clearly played some very good passes, you're talking shite.

Tav, Goldson, McLaughlin and Kent all played worse passes than him, so "it ain't going to happen" for them either? Passes he's being slaughtered for, like the one to Goldson was Goldson being incapable of controlling a standard pass.
 
RaoulDuke11 said:
I always thought this was a very bold OP.

Having seen a lot of him in the high pressure situation of being a consistent Rangers centre back - right now, he's not good enough to play for us.

Back up, aye. But he's not a starting player and is miles off it. He does some things very well, but he's got a few bombscares in him each game and that's miles off the required standard.

His reading of the game is generally pretty decent, and he's a strong lad for not being so large - so in time I think he'll be a good player.
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Are you describing Goldson or Sands? I can’t tell.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Not for me, saw enough on Tuesday to know he's not good enough to hold down a regular position.

If you can't play a pass and be confident on the ball by his age, it ain't ever going to happen. We need to be honest with ourselves.

Ok squad player, but pretty much played like Simpson against a pretty weak team.

Soutar we know can defend, just needs to get fit and also he's had a few personal issues
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Played like Simpson? Have you even watched Sands?
 
I have seen a fair bit of Davies over the years and I am yet to be convinced he is anything other than a decent mid-table Championship player. I don't think he takes the jersey from Sands in the long term - very open to being proven wrong!
 
Arlo said:
I guess you were saying the same about Calvin Bassey 12 - 18 months ago.
Have a watch of the video above, he clearly played some very good passes, you're talking shite.

Tav, Goldson, McLaughlin and Kent all played worse passes than him, so "it ain't going to happen" for them either? Passes he's being slaughtered for, like the one to Goldson was Goldson being incapable of controlling a standard pass.
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Goldson, Tav and Bassey all get (got) slaughtered regularly.

I still don't get the contrived support for Sands. He gives me the absolute fear.
 
Arlo said:
I guess you were saying the same about Calvin Bassey 12 - 18 months ago.
Have a watch of the video above, he clearly played some very good passes, you're talking shite.

Tav, Goldson, McLaughlin and Kent all played worse passes than him, so "it ain't going to happen" for them either? Passes he's being slaughtered for, like the one to Goldson was Goldson being incapable of controlling a standard pass.
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Goldson never loses a header. Sands lost about half of his.

I'll be happy to come back to this post in 6 months and be proved wrong, but for me he's not strong enough defensively, and played some crazy passes to put us in trouble on Tuesday, school boy stuff playing balls into the middle of the park.

With hellander, Davies and soutar all fit, he won't be a regular starter in defense, in defensive mid, he's being jack, Lundstrum, kamara and Davis. Who would you drop for him ahead of all those players?

You could tell Bassey was a total rock and had to learn things positionally, but his core skills were there.
 
Arlo said:
How about we actually use facts and evidence rather than a dislike and overreacting on a player ahead of others who actually performed worse but get a bye somehow? Nobody was totally polished, but is Sands deserving of criticism?

This video shows you're talking absolute shite.


Loads of very good tackles and some quality passing whilst granted it could be better it was much better than some of his team mates, who he bailed out on occasion with some good rescue tackling. Have a watch again at the above, it might uncloud your judgement.

Tav, McLaughlin, Goldson and Kent put him in difficult positions with shite passes and he rescued the ball. All of these players played passes much worse than Sands on the night.

Every header you refer to? I count 4 and he won 3 of them?

Polished, nope I don't think anyone was.
But was he rubbish and deserving of criticism above others? definitely not.
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Everything you need to see is in that video

Poor passing
Losing headers
The throw in to the keeper. So risky
Couldn't shield the ball out of play

Made a few nice tackles
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Everything you need to see is in that video

Poor passing
Losing headers
The throw in to the keeper. So risky
Couldn't shield the ball out of play

Made a few nice tackles
Click to expand...
when you see it like that i dont understand the people saying he's first 11 quality right now

he did make a few tackles but his overall game is poor
 
I am confident that the coaching staff will make him a better player this season. Whether or not that improvement confirms his preferred position and cements him a place in the starting line up remains to be seen.

If he continues to be sloppy in possession, he won’t be tolerated for long though.
 
nateman said:
Very much reminds me of Bocanegra the way he plays at centre half. Looks very classy and cultured despite keeping things simple most of the time, and surprisingly strong in the challenge for a guy who isn't 6'4. I think Centre Half looks like his best position moving forward.
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"There is a player there" I'm willing to hear.

He's a far more physical defender than Boca for me and naturally doesn't have the intelligence of playing CB for years yet.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Goldson never loses a header. Sands lost about half of his.

I'll be happy to come back to this post in 6 months and be proved wrong, but for me he's not strong enough defensively, and played some crazy passes to put us in trouble on Tuesday, school boy stuff playing balls into the middle of the park.

With hellander, Davies and soutar all fit, he won't be a regular starter in defense, in defensive mid, he's being jack, Lundstrum, kamara and Davis. Who would you drop for him ahead of all those players?

You could tell Bassey was a total rock and had to learn things positionally, but his core skills were there.
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lol Bassey's heading was non-existant early on & yet you're giving Sands grief for it? He's just getting to grips with CB so, like Bassey, should probably be given a bit more slack.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
Goldson never loses a header. Sands lost about half of his.

I'll be happy to come back to this post in 6 months and be proved wrong, but for me he's not strong enough defensively, and played some crazy passes to put us in trouble on Tuesday, school boy stuff playing balls into the middle of the park.

With hellander, Davies and soutar all fit, he won't be a regular starter in defense, in defensive mid, he's being jack, Lundstrum, kamara and Davis. Who would you drop for him ahead of all those players?

You could tell Bassey was a total rock and had to learn things positionally, but his core skills were there.
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He lost about half of his? There were 4 headed duels that Sands was involved in and he won 3 of them. Goldson lost 2 headers if you care to re-watch.

Tav, Goldson and McLaughlin played much crazier passes that would have put us in proper trouble had Sands not bailed them out. Kent also played a shocker that Sands had to take a booking for. Can to show us any passes that Sands played that were worse than those? Or is it just that facts don't count when you have an agenda and make up shite? :D

You say Bassey was a total rock but had to learn things positionally, but the core skills were there? That's incredible revisionism. He couldn't header for toffee and MANY doubted him as a central defender. Your superior knowledge had him down as a CDM in this thread too:

Could Bassey be a centre half?

Realise it's only half way through one game but given our current centre half situation can you see Calvin being converted and moving inside over the long term? He's got age on his side, the physical attributes and would just need the mental ones.
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com

Sands is better than Souttar, Helander is never fit, Davies is an unknown. Sands will play plenty of games in defence this season.
 
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Arlo said:
For some reason the guy is just unable to admit actual facts and sticks to his agenda, weird.
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The incessant need to write players off is weird. By all means call out faults but don't make shit up to try & bolster a point that doesn't have any merit.

Maybe some posters should be banned from posting until they've rewatched the game with their blood pressure back to normal levels B-D
 
RandyMac said:
Him and Barisic on the left are possibly the worst pairing we could have. Barisic wants to turn back on himself and play it back to Sands and Sands then does the same to Goldson. Zero progress down that side.
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This was definitely a problem and will be so if they play together against PSV.
As Sands only has a right foot, opponents set up to make it difficult for him as they know he will turn towards Goldson.
Meanwhile, it depends what Barisic turns up.
His 1st half performance on Tuesday and the way he played in the first game against USG made our already shaky left side of defence look very dodgy.
I really think we need Ben Davies in beside Goldson as it is vital to have a left footed centre back who can naturally play the ball down that side when put under pressure.
 
Coisty09 said:
This was definitely a problem and will be so if they play together against PSV.
As Sands only has a right foot, opponents set up to make it difficult for him as they know he will turn towards Goldson.
Meanwhile, it depends what Barisic turns up.
His 1st half performance on Tuesday and the way he played in the first game against USG made our already shaky left side of defence look very dodgy.
I really think we need Ben Davies in beside Goldson as it is vital to have a left footed centre back who can naturally play the ball down that side when put under pressure.
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This isn't really true either regarding Tuesday there. Barisic was fine defensively & the reason he couldn't get going forward was, more often than not, because he was given zero options. Kent & Lawrence were static for the 1st half while being marked so Barisic had nowhere to go. He tried to overlap a couple of times when he got a pass off but was ignored as the ball was taken into the middle. Another point that was brought up was that he never got to the by line & he might well have been told not to leave Sands exposed going so far up the pitch, so we don't know the reasons for that. He didn't do much wrong on Tuesday though & was involved in 2 of the goals.

The away tie the whole team were howling so again it's tough to single him out.
 
Blue Skies At Night said:
This isn't really true either regarding Tuesday there. Barisic was fine defensively & the reason he couldn't get going forward was, more often than not, because he was given zero options. Kent & Lawrence were static for the 1st half while being marked so Barisic had nowhere to go. He tried to overlap a couple of times when he got a pass off but was ignored as the ball was taken into the middle. Another point that was brought up was that he never got to the by line & he might well have been told not to leave Sands exposed going so far up the pitch, so we don't know the reasons for that. He didn't do much wrong on Tuesday though & was involved in 2 of the goals.

The away tie the whole team were howling so again it's tough to single him out.
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David Edgar on the Heart and Hand podcast said that 2 Borna’s turned up on Tuesday.
I agreed with his view with the first half Borna looking hesitant and lacking confidence.
Everything seemed to change after he put the cross in that hit the arm and led to the penalty.
Having watched the game back, there were clearly times in the first half he could have run 10 yards forward with the ball into space in front of him but just turned and played it to Sands, who then had to play across to Goldson as he does not have a left foot.
If that pairing start on the left against PSV, we will lose goals down that side.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
You could tell Bassey was a total rock and had to learn things positionally, but his core skills were there.
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Bassey was routinely described on here as a "bomb scare" at centre half after his first match for us in that position, I think v Sparta Prague. That attitude was still very common on FF for weeks after, if not months. Part of the criticism was fair, because it looked like he couldn't head the ball at all - much worse than Sands in that regard. But largely it was the same impatient rubbish that would have ended John Lundstram's Rangers career by January 2022 if FF was in charge of player sales.
 
I think he is probably more a RCB than a left, as you could see he struggled at points to make the adjustment. Even so, he saved a lot of our more experienced defenders skin a few times with his interceptions and tackles.
 
Difficult to see where Sands is going with us. Gio appears to like him so he will get plenty of game time.
At present for me he is an average player sometimes good and at others not so good.
WE need somebody along side Goldson who in my view is better than Sands.
He has time to improve but against teams in Europe or the better side in our league I am not sure he is what we need for the rest of the season.
However as with some of our players in the past it can take time to come good.
 
1BrianLaudrup said:
Bassey was routinely described on here as a "bomb scare" at centre half after his first match for us in that position, I think v Sparta Prague. That attitude was still very common on FF for weeks after, if not months. Part of the criticism was fair, because it looked like he couldn't head the ball at all - much worse than Sands in that regard. But largely it was the same impatient rubbish that would have ended John Lundstram's Rangers career by January 2022 if FF was in charge of player sales.
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Absolutely spot on this.
 
Coisty09 said:
David Edgar on the Heart and Hand podcast said that 2 Borna’s turned up on Tuesday.
I agreed with his view with the first half Borna looking hesitant and lacking confidence.
Everything seemed to change after he put the cross in that hit the arm and led to the penalty.
Having watched the game back, there were clearly times in the first half he could have run 10 yards forward with the ball into space in front of him but just turned and played it to Sands, who then had to play across to Goldson as he does not have a left foot.
If that pairing start on the left against PSV, we will lose goals down that side.
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That's fair. I do agree there were a couple of times he could've ran further with it tbh & maybe things would've developed into something, maybe not. I just think the likes of Kent & Lawrence could've done more to help out. Kent especially needs to be using his pace way more than he does. Make runs. Lose his marker etc. His defensive effort is commendable but off the ball when we're in possession he could be doing a lot more.
 
Done nothing thus far to impress me this season. His slack passing and rabbit in the headlights moments, if not improved will see Souttar/Davies take the position away.
 
Arlo said:
He lost about half of his? There were 4 headed duels that Sands was involved in and he won 3 of them. Goldson lost 2 headers if you care to re-watch.

Tav, Goldson and McLaughlin played much crazier passes that would have put us in proper trouble had Sands not bailed them out. Kent also played a shocker that Sands had to take a booking for. Can to show us any passes that Sands played that were worse than those? Or is it just that facts don't count when you have an agenda and make up shite? :D

You say Bassey was a total rock but had to learn things positionally, but the core skills were there? That's incredible revisionism. He couldn't header for toffee and MANY doubted him as a central defender. Your superior knowledge had him down as a CDM in this thread too:

Could Bassey be a centre half?

Realise it's only half way through one game but given our current centre half situation can you see Calvin being converted and moving inside over the long term? He's got age on his side, the physical attributes and would just need the mental ones.
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com

Sands is better than Souttar, Helander is never fit, Davies is an unknown. Sands will play plenty of games in defence this season.
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Tav, goldson, Kent agree all made a bad pass, but sands did it 3 times in crazy positions, and also nearly got sent off from his crazy throw in, on another day that could have been a red card and a penalty (not that jm helped him much either to be fair).

Bassey had a howler against st mirren and he was no where near the team for months, credit to him for making big improvements. But you could see he could tackle and get up the line, as well as being solid on the ball. I wouldnt expect a left back to be amazing at headers

Sands is a center half as far as I can see, it's the only position he'll get near the starting team, but he's 3rd or 4rh choice with everyone fit
 
Detective Vic Mackey said:
I really think he’s a player. Just took some time to settle.

My concern is the reported fee we need to pay should we want to keep him is pretty high and to justify it he’ll need to be playing regularly and I’m not sure he’s going to play in defence ahead of Davies and Souttar or in midfield ahead of Lundstram, Jack and Kamara.

Could be one that comes back to haunt us in years to come if he goes to another club
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I could be wrong but I think we will cash in on Kamara next year and who knows how Jack will hold up with injuries. I see him as a replacement for Jack imo.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
So out of
Goldson, sands, Davies, soutar and hellander, who would be your top 2 pairings?
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I wouldn't like to comment on Davies as I haven't seen enough of him. If going on full capabilities (sans Davies for the aforementioned) I'd put them Goldson/Helander/Souttar/Sands. Alas, Helanders done himself a mischeif, Souttars got personal issues that's got his head all over the place (got to give benefit of the doubt there & it's not the pressure getting to him) so for the foreseeable until Davies gets fit & shows his worth in diddy games it's Goldson/Sands.

That might be what you were angling at as an I told you so moment but who my 1st choices are is irrelevant to the point I was making. The point was that you were slating him for his headering & then mentioned Bassey when he was a shambles when it came to headers when first at CB. It took him a few months to sort both his positioning & dealing with balls in the air. If you're championing Calvins cause you should be prepared to give Sands the same kind of leeway playing a position he's still getting to grips with. While he's had his mistakes up to now, he's not done too bad & if you compare Basseys first few months at CB & Sands, I'd say Sands has slotted in better in that position. His positioning's better. He's more composed with the ball at his feet so better distribution & better tackling too. I think more time in there could show him to be a quality CB & he's being judged far too prematurely.
 
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Albertz Loyal said:
Goldson never loses a header. Sands lost about half of his.

I'll be happy to come back to this post in 6 months and be proved wrong, but for me he's not strong enough defensively, and played some crazy passes to put us in trouble on Tuesday, school boy stuff playing balls into the middle of the park.

With hellander, Davies and soutar all fit, he won't be a regular starter in defense, in defensive mid, he's being jack, Lundstrum, kamara and Davis. Who would you drop for him ahead of all those players?

You could tell Bassey was a total rock and had to learn things positionally, but his core skills were there.
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I remember on here reading Bassy could not read a header for toffee. We are a right fickle bunch. Most of the footage in the game showing Sands shows a guy that done very well yet our support want to bring him down rather than encourage.
 
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