Shankland

He's now not scored from open play for months. If that was Dessers he'd be hounded out the door.

Dessers in contrast who's absolutely hammered on here by the same fans that were desperate for Shankland has scored 7 goals in that time.

Shankland also hasn't scored more than 12 goals from open play in his career in top division football other than his purple patch the first half of this season. Which had people scrambling thinking he was worth £4m.

One purple patch of just over half a season of goal scoring from open play in the top division in his entire career at 28 years old.

We can ignore the star padding with penalties as if it is relevant, being that he wouldn't take them for us.

Hopefully this puts to bed the £4m for Shankland and we'll win the league brigade.
 
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Ron Swanson said:
Every single player we sign from now on needs to be signed with a view to selling for a hefty profit that can be reinvested after being successful for 18 months / 2 years.

No more past their best punts who ‘can do a job’.

That strategy hasn’t worked and needs binned.

We need our player trading model to work as effectively as possible or we’re never going anywhere.
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And winning things at Rangers can come second to that?
 
Albus said:
He's now not scored from open play for months. If that was Dessers he'd be hounded out the door. Dessers in that time has scored 7.

Shankland also hasn't scored more than 12 goals from open play in his career in top division football other than his purple patch the first half of this season. Which bad people scrambling thinking he was worth £4m.

One purple patch of just over half a season of goal scoring from open play in the top division in his entire career at 28 years old.

We can ignore the star padding with penalties as if it is relevant, being that he wouldn't take them for us.

Hopefully this puts to bed the £4m for Shankland and we'll win the league brigade.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of that. Shankland overall, has had a pretty underwhelming career. He's hit a purple patch occasionally, one of them being at the start of this season, but he was never worth £4m, plus no doubt a 3 or 4 year contract.
 
Ron Swanson said:
Every single player we sign from now on needs to be signed with a view to selling for a hefty profit that can be reinvested after being successful for 18 months / 2 years.

No more past their best punts who ‘can do a job’.

That strategy hasn’t worked and needs binned.

We need our player trading model to work as effectively as possible or we’re never going anywhere.
Click to expand...
Hold up, are you saying that buying players 'with a view to selling for a hefty profit' has worked for us over the past 5-6 years?

This mythical player trading model is almost entirely contingent upon winning leagues and European success.

Nobody is going to buy second rate duds from the SPFL at inflated prices. Whoever we are buying has to be part of a title winning side or a side that is consistently excellent at top level (i.e. European), else they need to be the second coming of Laudrup to be sold at huge profit.

Whether you want to buy to sell, or buy to win, we still need players that win us leagues and a core squad who are here for the long term to sustain that success.

The idea we're going to sign 3 or 4 Calvin Basseys every year, win the league and punt them for £10m profit is ludicrous.

I'm not saying Shankland is the difference between winning or not winning the league, but if we can sign someone that can easily score 15-20 goals, who is around the national side, has 3-4 good years left in him and is a Rangers man, it's kinda a no-brainer to have a guy like that in the squad.
 
JMCK said:
And winning things at Rangers can come second to that?
Click to expand...
Did you purposely miss the word “successful” in my post?

We will only be able to sell players for hefty profits if we are regularly winning things.

I thought using the word “successful’ would have made that clear.
 
GeeSpot said:
Hold up, are you saying that buying players 'with a view to selling for a hefty profit' has worked for us over the past 5-6 years?

This mythical player trading model is almost entirely contingent upon winning leagues and European success.

Nobody is going to buy second rate duds from the SPFL at inflated prices. Whoever we are buying has to be part of a title winning side or a side that is consistently excellent at top level (i.e. European), else they need to be the second coming of Laudrup to be sold at huge profit.

Whether you want to buy to sell, or buy to win, we still need players that win us leagues and a core squad who are here for the long term to sustain that success.

The idea we're going to sign 3 or 4 Calvin Basseys every year, win the league and punt them for £10m profit is ludicrous.

I'm not saying Shankland is the difference between winning or not winning the league, but if we can sign someone that can easily score 15-20 goals, who is around the national side, has 3-4 good years left in him and is a Rangers man, it's kinda a no-brainer to have a guy like that in the squad.
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No it hasn’t worked for us, because the recruitment and the coaching of the players signed has been shite - it needs to be better…obviously.

A successful player trading model is not a “mythical’ proposition - The side who have been dominating us for years do it, and do it well, and without the European success.

Again, another who missed the word “successful’ in my post. Winning leagues and Cups goes without saying, although I did think using the word “successful’ conveyed that message.
 
I thought he played well yesterday as he always does against that lot but they really had to get the first goal to have any chance. He has certainly proved he can play with his back to goal and while stats are always used dishonestly with Scottish players his overall tally is going to be excellent again. The idea we could not use someone with about 200 goals is actually absurd.

It is interesting for me that talk of signing Shanksy for 3m or thereabouts is reckless or insane, was the same with Ferguson at Aberdeen right enough.... but ofcourse anyone from a better league covered by sky/bt and the same folk tell you that sort of fee is chicken feed in the modern game. Uch they will be worth 4 or 5 times that amount in one season its a cert.

I dont know if people have missed it but this is exactly what the club have been trying to do. Maybe it is all down to bad decisions or the wrong people calling the shots and that will change with big Phil, hopefully but my worry is that it is not as easy as people believe due to playing in Scotland. Thats the thing about fans of the club they love the idea of playing in our league and they will also fight for that jersey in every single game, even at places like Ross or Livi.
 
Ron Swanson said:
Did you purposely miss the word “successful” in my post?

We will only be able to sell players for hefty profits if we are regularly winning things.

I thought using the word “successful’ would have made that clear.
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Every single player you said, which would rule out a future signing of a Stevie Davis, a Scott Arfield, and Allan McGregor; or perhaps you can elaborate further on your predicate of "every" single player signed in future having a sell on value?
 
Ron Swanson said:
No it hasn’t worked for us, because the recruitment and the coaching of the players signed has been shite - it needs to be better…obviously.

A successful player trading model is not a “mythical’ proposition - The side who have been dominating us for years do it, and do it well, and without the European success.

Again, another who missed the word “successful’ in my post. Winning leagues and Cups goes without saying, although I did think using the word “successful’ conveyed that message.
Click to expand...
Its been the same under multiple managers and recruitment teams now. The strategy of buying guys playing poorly in other leagues for £2-£5m and then expecting someone to come along and buy them for £15-£20m because of playing a season for us in Scotland will never work.

The only criteria for signing players should be can they do a job in the league first of all and can they make an impact on Europe second. If we build a squad capable of that there will always be player sales that will happen anyway especially if we are playing the champions league.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
I thought he played well yesterday as he always does against that lot but they really had to get the first goal to have any chance. He has certainly proved he can play with his back to goal and while stats are always used dishonestly with Scottish players his overall tally is going to be excellent again. The idea we could not use someone with about 200 goals is actually absurd.

It is interesting for me that talk of signing Shanksy for 3m or thereabouts is reckless or insane, was the same with Ferguson at Aberdeen right enough.... but ofcourse anyone from a better league covered by sky/bt and the same folk tell you that sort of fee is chicken feed in the modern game. Uch they will be worth 4 or 5 times that amount in one season its a cert.

I dont know if people have missed it but this is exactly what the club have been trying to do. Maybe it is all down to bad decisions or the wrong people calling the shots and that will change with big Phil, hopefully but my worry is that it is not as easy as people believe due to playing in Scotland. Thats the thing about fans of the club they love the idea of playing in our league and they will also fight for that jersey in every single game, even at places like Ross or Livi.
Click to expand...
Ferguson was far younger, would have had a much better resale value and is a better footballer. Thats probably why, as he has proven.
 
Ron Swanson said:
No it hasn’t worked for us, because the recruitment and the coaching of the players signed has been shite - it needs to be better…obviously.

A successful player trading model is not a “mythical’ proposition - The side who have been dominating us for years do it, and do it well, and without the European success.

Again, another who missed the word “successful’ in my post. Winning leagues and Cups goes without saying, although I did think using the word “successful’ conveyed that message.
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They've also signed numerous overpriced foreigners who failed bigtime who they made losses on, and league based players like Hendry, Hayes, Taylor, Turnbull. Do you have figures on their net profit from player trading to back up your argument?
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Ferguson was far younger, would have had a much better resale value and is a better footballer. Thats probably why, as he has proven.
Click to expand...
Can you honestly tell us you were saying that at the time though ?

Most arrogant posters were saying he was garbage as well and going on about some useless stats about taking penalty kicks.

Shankland is the first pick for Scotland so i am not sure i agree that Ferguson is a much better player, what i would agree with is anyone saying both would almost certainly have been terrific for Rangers and if we were champions we would/could ignore this tiresome player trading debate.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
Can you honestly tell us you were saying that at the time though ?

Most arrogant posters were saying he was garbage as well and going on about some useless stats about taking penalty kicks.

Shankland is the first pick for Scotland so i am not sure i agree that Ferguson is a much better player, what i would agree with is anyone saying both would almost certainly have been terrific for Rangers and if we were champions we would/could ignore this tiresome player trading debate.
Click to expand...

A) Shankland isn't the first pick
B) Ferguson plays a different position
C) Ferguson is proven in Serie A
D) Ferguson is a million times better
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
I thought he played well yesterday as he always does against that lot but they really had to get the first goal to have any chance. He has certainly proved he can play with his back to goal and while stats are always used dishonestly with Scottish players his overall tally is going to be excellent again. The idea we could not use someone with about 200 goals is actually absurd.

It is interesting for me that talk of signing Shanksy for 3m or thereabouts is reckless or insane, was the same with Ferguson at Aberdeen right enough.... but ofcourse anyone from a better league covered by sky/bt and the same folk tell you that sort of fee is chicken feed in the modern game. Uch they will be worth 4 or 5 times that amount in one season its a cert.

I dont know if people have missed it but this is exactly what the club have been trying to do. Maybe it is all down to bad decisions or the wrong people calling the shots and that will change with big Phil, hopefully but my worry is that it is not as easy as people believe due to playing in Scotland. Thats the thing about fans of the club they love the idea of playing in our league and they will also fight for that jersey in every single game, even at places like Ross or Livi.
Click to expand...
Played well, he was howling?
Played them all on for their first by being 2 yards behind his nearest outfield teammate.
His impression of Anton Rogan to give away a needless penalty.
But he's Scottish and exempt from any criticism from FF's William Wallace.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
A) Shankland isn't the first pick
B) Ferguson plays a different position
C) Ferguson is proven in Serie A
D) Ferguson is a million times better
Click to expand...
Its not really a debate i can be arsed with(same as every time you quote me) as i like both players and would have liked them to sign for Rangers. Fans playing for the club is so important i think that is something you guys dont understand as you are engrossed with foreign leagues and giving us the latest news from abroad.

I dont see a massive difference in terms of quality and i doubt you noticed it at Aberdeen.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
Its not really a debate i can be arsed with(same as every time you quote me) as i like both players and would have liked them to sign for Rangers. Fans playing for the club is so important i think that is something you guys dont understand as you are engrossed with foreign leagues and giving us the latest news from abroad.

I dont see a massive difference in terms of quality and i doubt you noticed it at Aberdeen.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be mad if Rangers signed Shankland but this Ferguson comparison is beyond silly.
 
Albus said:
He's now not scored from open play for months. If that was Dessers he'd be hounded out the door.

Dessers in contrast who's absolutely hammered on here by the same fans that were desperate for Shankland has scored 7 goals in that time.

Shankland also hasn't scored more than 12 goals from open play in his career in top division football other than his purple patch the first half of this season. Which had people scrambling thinking he was worth £4m.

One purple patch of just over half a season of goal scoring from open play in the top division in his entire career at 28 years old.

We can ignore the star padding with penalties as if it is relevant, being that he wouldn't take them for us.

Hopefully this puts to bed the £4m for Shankland and we'll win the league brigade.
Click to expand...
THIS!
 
IbroxMainStand said:
Its been the same under multiple managers and recruitment teams now. The strategy of buying guys playing poorly in other leagues for £2-£5m and then expecting someone to come along and buy them for £15-£20m because of playing a season for us in Scotland will never work.

The only criteria for signing players should be can they do a job in the league first of all and can they make an impact on Europe second. If we build a squad capable of that there will always be player sales that will happen anyway especially if we are playing the champions league.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
Shankland had a great start to the season, I don't think that he'd get a fraction of the traction that he gets on FF if he wasn't of a Rangers background.

Hearts are going to want £m's for him and there will be minimal resale value, if he was out of contract that would be a different story
 
It kind of looks like the much-touted “player trading model” left the club with whoever found Aribo and Bassey. Since then we’ve wasted time and resources on reclamation projects (e.g. Cantwell, Dowell, Matondo.) In the short term we need to prioritise players with a stronger mentality and in better physical condition. The rest can be developed as time goes on.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
I thought he played well yesterday as he always does against that lot but they really had to get the first goal to have any chance. He has certainly proved he can play with his back to goal and while stats are always used dishonestly with Scottish players his overall tally is going to be excellent again. The idea we could not use someone with about 200 goals is actually absurd.

It is interesting for me that talk of signing Shanksy for 3m or thereabouts is reckless or insane, was the same with Ferguson at Aberdeen right enough.... but ofcourse anyone from a better league covered by sky/bt and the same folk tell you that sort of fee is chicken feed in the modern game. Uch they will be worth 4 or 5 times that amount in one season its a cert.

I dont know if people have missed it but this is exactly what the club have been trying to do. Maybe it is all down to bad decisions or the wrong people calling the shots and that will change with big Phil, hopefully but my worry is that it is not as easy as people believe due to playing in Scotland. Thats the thing about fans of the club they love the idea of playing in our league and they will also fight for that jersey in every single game, even at places like Ross or Livi.
Click to expand...
Shanksy FFS.

He played well yesterday? In what way? Didn't score, didn't trouble them at all, played them all onside for the first AND gave away a penalty? Some effort.

He's not a scored an open goal in months, in that barren period, Dessers has scored 7 goals.

He's only scored more than 12 goals in a season from open play once, this season in his entire top flight career.

Penalties are irrelevant, as he wouldn't take them for us. A striker with an average of 8 goals a season in the SPL form open play is nowhere near good enough for us. The purple patch is over.

A 4/5 month purple patch, at 28 years old followed by a 2 month barren period is hardly comparable to Lewis Ferguson, who had a lot of potential and performed multiple seasons and was much younger and a far better player, with the physical attributes to match.

Not quite as bad as your Josh Magennis call, but it's getting there.
 
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CaptainStaunch said:
It kind of looks like the much-touted “player trading model” left the club with whoever found Aribo and Bassey. Since then we’ve wasted time and resources on reclamation projects (e.g. Cantwell, Dowell, Matondo.) In the short term we need to prioritise players with a stronger mentality and in better physical condition. The rest can be developed as time goes on.
Click to expand...
Cantwell is a better Rangers player than Dowell and Matondo.
 
JMCK said:
Cantwell is a better Rangers player than Dowell and Matondo.
Click to expand...
Indeed he is. However that’s a low bar. I’m not overly familiar with the yahoos’ players as I only see them when they play us, but I doubt he would get in their team. We need better than that. I’m not convinced that Shankland fits the bill either.
 
Albus said:
He's now not scored from open play for months. If that was Dessers he'd be hounded out the door.

Dessers in contrast who's absolutely hammered on here by the same fans that were desperate for Shankland has scored 7 goals in that time.

Shankland also hasn't scored more than 12 goals from open play in his career in top division football other than his purple patch the first half of this season. Which had people scrambling thinking he was worth £4m.

One purple patch of just over half a season of goal scoring from open play in the top division in his entire career at 28 years old.

We can ignore the star padding with penalties as if it is relevant, being that he wouldn't take them for us.

Hopefully this puts to bed the £4m for Shankland and we'll win the league brigade.
Click to expand...
Not a chance

Many invested themselves too emotionally in Shankland = league and can't shake that belief now
 
CaptainStaunch said:
Indeed he is. However that’s a low bar. I’m not overly familiar with the yahoos’ players as I only see them when they play us, but I doubt he would get in their team. We need better than that. I’m not convinced that Shankland fits the bill either.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see Cantwell with a solid midfield behind him, one with greater depth, and a striker capable of actually scoring goals regularly in front of him. Cantwell is not where our problem is.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
Can you honestly tell us you were saying that at the time though ?

Most arrogant posters were saying he was garbage as well and going on about some useless stats about taking penalty kicks.

Shankland is the first pick for Scotland so i am not sure i agree that Ferguson is a much better player, what i would agree with is anyone saying both would almost certainly have been terrific for Rangers and if we were champions we would/could ignore this tiresome player trading debate.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t saying it at the time mate, you are right. But the fact he was young made him more appealing. Shankland wont start up top for Scotland in the euros though bud.
 
Albus said:
Shanksy FFS.

He played well yesterday? In what way? Didn't score, didn't trouble them at all, played them all onside for the first AND gave away a penalty? Some effort.

He's not a scored an open goal in months, in that barren period, Dessers has scored 7 goals.

He's only scored more than 12 goals in a season from open play once, this season in his entire top flight career.

Penalties are irrelevant, as he wouldn't take them for us. A striker with an average of 8 goals a season in the SPL form open play is nowhere near good enough for us. The purple patch is over.

A 4/5 month purple patch, at 28 years old followed by a 2 month barren period is hardly comparable to Lewis Ferguson, who had a lot of potential and performed multiple seasons and was much younger and a far better player, with the physical attributes to match.

Not quite as bad as your Josh Magennis call, but it's getting there.
Click to expand...
He also fluffed a great chance in the first minute to take the lead. Massively overrated on here due to being a Rangers fan.
 
IbroxMainStand said:
Its been the same under multiple managers and recruitment teams now. The strategy of buying guys playing poorly in other leagues for £2-£5m and then expecting someone to come along and buy them for £15-£20m because of playing a season for us in Scotland will never work.

The only criteria for signing players should be can they do a job in the league first of all and can they make an impact on Europe second. If we build a squad capable of that there will always be player sales that will happen anyway especially if we are playing the champions league.
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Great points.
Fundamentally flawed thinking in my opinion.
But how do we change this mind set?
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
Great points.
Fundamentally flawed thinking in my opinion.
But how do we change this mind set?
Click to expand...
It will either need to come from the DoF or the football board to change what we are looking for when signing players. As much as the manager can have an impact I think the last few years failures can all be blamed mostly on the recruitment.
 
basiltherat said:
Don't really watch Scotland much so genuine question
How many games has first pick 28 yo Shankland started for Scotland ?
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He's started one friendly, since his debut in 2019, and made 8 substitute appearances. He's played a total of 270 minutes all in.

In that time Scotland have played 46 games.

Yup, "Shanksy" is a first pick for Scotland.
 
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Albus said:
He's started one friendly, out of since his debut in 2019, and made 8 substitute appearances. He's played a total of 270 minutes all in.

In that time Scotland have played 46 games.

Yup, "Shanksy" is a first pick for Scotland.
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I’m positive that poster is just a complete troll that has managed to keep it up for years. There is no chance someone is actually that bonkers.

“First pick for Scotland” despite only ever starting 1 game and in that game proving he isn’t good enough to be a first pick. Also missed a sitter which is weird cause Shankland never misses chances apparently.
 
IbroxMainStand said:
It will either need to come from the DoF or the football board to change what we are looking for when signing players. As much as the manager can have an impact I think the last few years failures can all be blamed mostly on the recruitment.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point, but everything is signed off at the top.
Is there enough due dilligence done at the top?
 
Albus said:
He's started one friendly, out of since his debut in 2019, and made 8 substitute appearances. He's played a total of 270 minutes all in.

In that time Scotland have played 46 games.

Yup, "Shanksy" is a first pick for Scotland.
Click to expand...
Maybe he'll be able to get it up to 300 mins in the Euros
But probably not as the Australian guy from QPR will likely continue to keep him out
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
I agree to a point, but everything is signed off at the top.
Is there enough due dilligence done at the top?
Click to expand...
Probably not based on previous windows as last summer looks to have just been Beale out on his own signing who he wanted with no plan. Liverpool have a system of a transfer committee so its not just one person deciding on deals which might be a good idea at us.
 
Bundy Bear said:
Apparently it was our model.
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I don't think that is the model. It's true that every player has his price and can be sold if the price is right. But every team must have a blend of potential and experience to be successful. If you only buy players for their future potential value you'll have a squad who will get better in the future - but what about NOW? The best recent example is Davie Weir. He was 37 when he joined us on a short term contract. His transfer value was modest but he played 162 games for us over 5 years. Now there aren't too many of him around but it shows the principle that experienced players with little sell on value create their own value within a squad. Greegs is another example. Rejoined us at 36 and played 141 games with a low resale value. They of course are the minority, no team should be stacked with players of a similar ilk. But a couple is not a problem indeed it's probably necessary for success.
 
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