So how much do you think we need to spend to compete in the CL.

brain said:
Zagreb, like so many others, bring in more than they spend every year. We spend more than we bring in every year (except this one) and don’t get to the levels those teams do. Recruitment needs to be better.
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Sorry but again the second part of that is nonsense. Yes the finances aren't in doubt, but Zagreb (or more accurately their money men) ensure that most of the money doesn't go back into the playing side of the club. They've also never qualified from a CL group in 30 years and have never made one let alone two europa finals. Their greatest achievement is the quarter finals of the Europa. So to say that we don't get to the levels that they do is nonsense I'm afraid.

Not intended as a dig at you @brain but I can't help laugh at the amount of people latching onto Zagreb’s result as if it's the norm for them. There's a reason the Chelsea manager was bagged less than 24 hours after losing to them.
 
trueblue77 said:
How much did Sheriff Tiraspol spend to qualify for the CL and win their first two group games, including beating Madrid ? I'd call that competing.
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How much have the micks spent and done nothing for 20 years? Relatively a lot. Still miles behind the sort that we are up against. Sherift are still a nothing it was an anomaly. To compete at this level is way beyond our financial capabilities. We have no chance. Same as sherrif or whatever their called. People need to get a grip of reality
 
DonDraper said:
Seriously, how much do you think we Would need to spend to compete with the 3 teams in our CL group? Also keep in mind if we sign big we need to then pay them big wages, how do we know we can afford their wages in future years if we fail to qualify for the CL with financial fair play in place.

our rivals who got beat 3-0 last night at home…I believe have won 1 champions league group game in 10 seasons.

not wanting a discussion on tonight’s performance, lack of effort etc, we all agree on that.

personally, I think we need 3 years of CL money and gradual improvement before we are in with a chance of qualifying from a group.
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How much did Liverpool's defence cost to ship four goals tonight compared to our,s.

Realistically it would be very hard to compete given our league we play in, trying to attract the type of player we need is not easy when they can get much more money playing for a far lesser club than playing for Rangers, Top Champions League players are nearly all Millionaire now.
 
Dunc1972 said:
Hate to say it but that lot across the city competed with the reigning European champions - not all about spending the money - effort is a great start
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Did they f**k. Madrid like the others, stroll through the groups and pick up speed the further they go.

They beat them 3-0 on their own turf, when they themselves decided it was time to put it to bed.
 
DonDraper said:
We competed against teams in the El, we are a decent El team. It doesn’t matter if they were CL teams, we played them in the EL. It’s like St Johnstone saying they beat us in the Scottish cup so should Compete with us in the league
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A wouldn’t say we would be a good europa league team anymore mate we’ve went backwards
 
No one's asking for us to qualify.

We want to put forward a good account of ourself and try and grab 3rd if possible.

There's a big difference between not qualifying and being completely horsed and embarrassed.

The financial difference between us and Ajax is lower than the difference between us and the other Spfl sides yet they've put up a much better fight than we did tonight.

Pushing for 3rd and putting in some good performances should be well within our budget.
 
Tonight was about the players for the second game in a few days surrendering and not showing any fight, the aim was to qualify for the groups and show similar european performances we have had the last couple of seasons we know ajax are a good team but thats not the point
 
For every £1 we spend on wages, Ajax spend £1.06.

Miles off doing our own version of what they do.
 
Ajax have a wage bill of 90+ million euros while ours is what 35/40 million pounds so probably double ours. The gulf that existed tonight doesn’t explain the difference in budgets.

We had a striker that couldn’t hold the ball up or pass. Astounding Morelos wasn’t brought on for 30 minutes or so even to just boost his fitness, Colak as McCoist stated was a man down on Saturday and a man down tonight.
We had Scott Wright with 33% passing accuracy. Every touch turned into a tackle, we should DNA test him to see if he’s related to Gordon Durie.
Kent a shadow of himself, he looks weak, isn’t tracking properly, a player that’s already checked out of the building.

The recruitment is all wrong, as is our style of play, but that doesn’t excuse the overall lack of effort or commitment, you can be behind a team technically, you should never be out fought, out ran or out muscled for the entirety of the game. And that’s what’s unforgivable from the past two games.
 
We could be doing with an upgrade in personel on the park, that's obvious.

But more to the point we need an upgrade in tactics, passion and hunger. This is why we are angry, the manner of our flaccid performances
 
The answer to the OP is that there isn’t enough money in Scottish football to finance a truly competitive assault (i.e. have an expectation to get to say a semifinal) on the CL. The SPFL want to sell tv rights for £30M/year. Napoli spent nearly two years of that on one player, and that doesn’t include his wages.

We need to realise that just getting to the CL group stage is as much as we can hope for and UEFA’s new FFP rules will make that less likely in the future since we’ll be unable to spend more than 70% of turnover on squad costs.

However, players who can’t pass to a teammate, won’t jump at corners, can’t defend, won’t get back onside and won’t challenge opponents are another matter and unforgivable. Frankly I’d rather that if there are players who have a problem with the manager and/or coaching staff, which is what some look like, they ask not to be played and let someone who is have their place in the team.
 
I’ll settle for being a well drilled team who leave everything they have out on the pitch and see where that takes us.

Gio, sadly, is not the man to do this, it would’ve happened for him by now and we are only delaying the inevitable.

Let’s hope the Dundee cup game emails drop today, that’ll cheer everyone up!
 
shug1971 said:
How much have the micks spent and done nothing for 20 years? Relatively a lot. Still miles behind the sort that we are up against. Sherift are still a nothing it was an anomaly. To compete at this level is way beyond our financial capabilities. We have no chance. Same as sherrif or whatever their called. People need to get a grip of reality
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I disagree. Open your eyes and judge ‘our’ performance, not Ajax. Of course we shouldn’t expect to win, and I thought we’d lose, but there’s a world away from ‘competing’ and what we witnessed yesterday.
 
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We can't compete at that level unless we get a very favourable draw. It's damage limitation. Due to finance, many clubs have pulled away from us and we're now the UCL equivalent of St Mirren or Dundee in the SPL v us and the bheasts.
The Europa is our level now (though I feel the players have chucked it under GvB and we'd struggle there as well).
 
We don't need to spend, we need to have a manager that gets his head out his arse and actually stops being so stubborn! His tactics are not working! He must also see the players are shockingly disinterested in his formations and zonal marking nonsense and that is not good enough. We as supporters can all see it is not working, he must be also then be able to.
I right now do not recognise this team who look lazy, and as if they could not cared less, we also saw Tav and Goldson having a pop at each other on the pitch the other week.

Its got to change as ,we look like amateurs and not like the team who recently put out PSV just a few weeks ago.
 
20rangersultras07 said:
Minus 1 year in the 90s we’ve never been a CL team. Spend how many millions ye want you could still end up finishing bottom of this group.

The atmosphere at Ibrox will win/get us points in this group
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The atmosphere which carried us so far last year will be quickly dampened if we see gutless performances from the same players.

If I need to see Goldson duck under a corner coming in to our box again, I'll throw up.
 
Reality for us now is we are a Europa league team that is our level that we can compete at the champions league is a huge step up for us. I don't think our tactics helped last night for us but we were beaten by a better side on the night just have too look at the money they spend while their academy is world class turning out player after player. Their 4 goalscorers combined cost more than we've spent the last 5 seasons in transfers or Alvarez was the same amount as our net spend this season that's what we are up against.
 
It doesn’t cost anything to compete, you get close, you don’t make it easy, you put in the hard yards and make it known the opposition are in for a game. If you do that and still get beat 4-0, you’ve at least shown the right attitude and that you give a %^*&. Last night we had doddling on the ball, shite passing, constantly put ourselves in danger, no cohesive press, and a sheer lack of effort. The passing and running stats speak for themselves.
 
We’ll never ever earn enough to spend on the team like major European clubs can.

Look at some of the bigger teams spending £75 million + on just one player!!
 
DonDraper said:
Seriously, how much do you think we Would need to spend to compete with the 3 teams in our CL group? Also keep in mind if we sign big we need to then pay them big wages, how do we know we can afford their wages in future years if we fail to qualify for the CL with financial fair play in place.

our rivals who got beat 3-0 last night at home…I believe have won 1 champions league group game in 10 seasons.

not wanting a discussion on tonight’s performance, lack of effort etc, we all agree on that.

personally, I think we need 3 years of CL money and gradual improvement before we are in with a chance of qualifying from a group.
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It would be a gradual process likely to take, as you say, around 3 years of sustained CL involvement (and a board capable of utilising it properly).

Our current manager, however, is inept at domestic level, which renders all of the above pointless anyway. As we'll very rarely qualify for the CL.
 
Zero.

You don't need money to compete. its 11 vs 11.
You need sound tactics and a desire to show your worth.
We had neither of those things
 
If whatever players/team we have actually applied themselves we’ll compete a lot better than we did last night!
 
We’ve competed and defeated Champions League level teams several times in recent years.

Look at this years Champions League alone - we’ve either beaten or went undefeated across two games against Porto (Pot 1), Leipzig (Pot 2) and Dortmund and Benfica (Pot 3).

Utterly shite excuse from Gio.
 
DonDraper said:
Seriously, how much do you think we Would need to spend to compete with the 3 teams in our CL group? Also keep in mind if we sign big we need to then pay them big wages, how do we know we can afford their wages in future years if we fail to qualify for the CL with financial fair play in place.

our rivals who got beat 3-0 last night at home…I believe have won 1 champions league group game in 10 seasons.

not wanting a discussion on tonight’s performance, lack of effort etc, we all agree on that.

personally, I think we need 3 years of CL money and gradual improvement before we are in with a chance of qualifying from a group.
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Ajax sold 1 player for 80 million we can't compete with that no matter how long it takes.
 
It's not about spending big / outwith your means to compete, its about putting in the hard graft and effort.

Our players look terrified when they step on to the pitch. IMO they don't have any confidence in the manager's philosophy, tactics (zonal defending) or game plan and this is showing in their performances.

Yes we need to upgrade the squad and improve in certain positions but we also need to get the basics right.
 
DonDraper said:
any team that can spend £59 million in one close season will compete, that’s the point I’m making.
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Exactly and the other point being missed is the relative value of the squad. Someone did a transfermarket valuation on here (which whilst not accurate is at least indicative of the gap) and Napoli were at £450m (in that area anyway), so thats an average player valuation of about £20m a player.

But all that aside, our fitness levels seem to have fallen through the floor as last season, quality aside, we were all over teams with a monstrous press at all times. That seems to have gone.
 
Our problem is the lack of skill. Compared to others we have a problem controlling the ball thne making an accurate pass. Worse is our movement off the ball. After we pass we stand and watch as is our bit has finished.
Training pitch is clearly not working.
 
To compete on talent, £200m in fees and a wage bill of more than £120m a year brings us up to the level of a mid-tier Champions League team.

To compete on organisation, desire and heard work. Zero. Just a manager with a decent plan and the man management skills to get the players to buy entirely into it.

If Gio keeps sending the team out to try to kill the game, removing all the intensity from our play in an effort to take it out of the opponent‘s, then we‘re going to keep getting battered until he gets sacked. See the February Old Firm, see USG away, see Saturday, see last night. Same tactic, same horrific outcome.
 
ICA_86 said:
We’ve competed and defeated Champions League level teams several times in recent years.

Look at this years Champions League alone - we’ve either beaten or went undefeated across two games against Porto (Pot 1), Leipzig (Pot 2) and Dortmund and Benfica (Pot 3).

Utterly shite excuse from Gio.
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We've shown for 4 years that we can compete with teams that have bigger budgets. We just got to a european final ffs. Last night undid 4 years of hard work. We had no organisation, no style of play, no heart. Those things dont cost money. He needs to go asap.
 
55degreesnorth said:
Sorry but again the second part of that is nonsense. Yes the finances aren't in doubt, but Zagreb (or more accurately their money men) ensure that most of the money doesn't go back into the playing side of the club. They've also never qualified from a CL group in 30 years and have never made one let alone two europa finals. Their greatest achievement is the quarter finals of the Europa. So to say that we don't get to the levels that they do is nonsense I'm afraid.

Not intended as a dig at you @brain but I can't help laugh at the amount of people latching onto Zagreb’s result as if it's the norm for them. There's a reason the Chelsea manager was bagged less than 24 hours after losing to them.
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I take your point that we have reached further in Europe, but Dinamo Zagreb get a lot more bang for their buck than we do. They make money in the transfer market every season, a lot of it, rather than expecting to spend fortunes in order to compete in Europe. They’ve reached the CL group stages 6 times in 11 years as far as I can tell, and I am fairly certain their wage bill will be significantly lower than ours. I didn’t say it clearly in my initial post but what I find frustrating is the idea that we need to be spending big money to compete when there are example of clubs around Europe who are far more efficient with their money and far better at recruitment.
 
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