Squad Analysis - Far Too Many English Academy Players

foreverblue

foreverblue

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Looking at our squad of 27 from Wikipedia, we have 11 players from 27 that have come from English academies, both elite or otherwise:

Tavernier
Edmundson
Goldson
Ojo
Foderingham
Kent
Flanagan
Aribo
Kamara
Barker
Firth

For me this is way too big a tranch of the squad that are coming from typically pandered English academies whereby the winning instinct isn't engrained into their mentality week in, week out. I think that's why they also enjoy the Euro nights and challenges as it's more technique focus as opposed to mentality and physicality, which whether we like it or not, is how the SPFL is won.

When was the last time an SPFL was won by a squad made up so much of a player of a particular background (apart from Scots)? That lot at The Glitterdome have never made it their strategy to pack their squad with run of the mill English academy players in order to win the league. We never done it under Walter, McLiesh or Advocaat so why is it all of a sudden vogue or a wise strategy?

If there was a group of 11 French, German or Italian players in the squad there would be questions asked of them as a whole in terms of unity, mentality or clique's existing in the squad. I'm yet to see when the chips are down in this side a Glen Kamara, Aribo or Flanagan having the attitude to kick a few backsides or show the passion required to get us out the shyte when things are against us... they simply don't care!
 
Macdonsj said:
1. have you seen the Scotland squads?

2. any decent Scottish player under contract is immediately priced at 10 times the value by clubs that despise us
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I'm not saying that the national team is the way forward, im just trying to analyse what has made squads successfull in the past. We have two Scots that are regularly playing (Jack and McGregor) - Celtic have 8 in their matchday squad. Is that any bearing on mentality to play in Scotland? I'm not neccesarily saying the team needs wholesale "Scottishness", it just doesn't need 11 English academy players in or around it in my opinion. It's never been a signing strategy that has ever bore fruit at Rangers or Celtic
 
The plan since the Warburton days has been to recruit players from English academies with the intent of selling them back to the inflated English market for a profit.

It hasn't worked because the players we've brought in haven't been much good.

Our most successful signings recently haven't come from that market. Is that really surprising if we consider it's not exactly infamous for value for money?

It's also true that our worst have come from there as well.

Hiring Gerrard was an extension of that concept, so it seems unlikely to change, in fact paying an inflated fee for Kent means it's full steam ahead.
 
foreverblue said:
Looking at our squad of 27 from Wikipedia, we have 11 players from 27 that have come from English academies, both elite or otherwise:

Tavernier
Edmundson
Goldson
Ojo
Foderingham
Kent
Flanagan
Aribo
Kamara
Barker
Firth

For me this is way too big a tranch of the squad that are coming from typically pandered English academies whereby the winning instinct isn't engrained into their mentality week in, week out. I think that's why they also enjoy the Euro nights and challenges as it's more technique focus as opposed to mentality and physicality, which whether we like it or not, is how the SPFL is won.

When was the last time an SPFL was won by a squad made up so much of a player of a particular background (apart from Scots)? That lot at The Glitterdome have never made it their strategy to pack their squad with run of the mill English academy players in order to win the league. We never done it under Walter, McLiesh or Advocaat so why is it all of a sudden vogue or a wise strategy?

If there was a group of 11 French, German or Italian players in the squad there would be questions asked of them as a whole in terms of unity, mentality or clique's existing in the squad. I'm yet to see when the chips are down in this side a Glen Kamara, Aribo or Flanagan having the attitude to kick a few backsides or show the passion required to get us out the shyte when things are against us... they simply don't care!
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I’m kinda on the same page as yourself, but I’d leave Fotheringham out of that as he’s been a good reliable keeper over the years (albeit without much game time past season or two).
 
Its-Sebo said:
I’m not sure what your point is – should they be coming from Scottish academies?
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Haha i'm struggling to get it right in my own head but there is a fundamental attitude problem within our squad and the overriding trend in the squad is English academy players - in fact almost 50% are from this background.
JayDee said:
How about Harry Kane? Marcus Rashford? Trent Alexander-Arnold? Wouldn't be interested?
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English academy players are developed for their league, their style of play and their mentality. I’m not saying we should have none in the squad but 11 is far too much in my opinion. Name me an SPL winning squad of the last 20 years that has adopted such a strategy?

Plus the 3 you mentioned are with elite global clubs, with elite global managers playing within an elite football structure (EPL, CL)
 
To be expected when most our Squad was assembled by guys with more knowledge of English Academies than Scottish: Warburton, Gerrard, Mark Allen, Ross Wilson.

Can see where you're coming from but it was a strategy we used as the funds were limited.

We made a good profit on Waghorn, would do so on Tav also as well, Edmundson will prove a shrewd buy in the long run, Foderingham done us a turn.

Gerrard has to learn now what he needs in the squad that have both the quality AND mentality. Liverpool loanees are unlikely to give us that.

We need seasoned, experienced winners that won't hide when the battle comes.
 
foreverblue said:
Looking at our squad of 27 from Wikipedia, we have 11 players from 27 that have come from English academies, both elite or otherwise:

Tavernier
Edmundson
Goldson
Ojo
Foderingham
Kent
Flanagan
Aribo
Kamara
Barker
Firth

For me this is way too big a tranch of the squad that are coming from typically pandered English academies whereby the winning instinct isn't engrained into their mentality week in, week out. I think that's why they also enjoy the Euro nights and challenges as it's more technique focus as opposed to mentality and physicality, which whether we like it or not, is how the SPFL is won.

When was the last time an SPFL was won by a squad made up so much of a player of a particular background (apart from Scots)? That lot at The Glitterdome have never made it their strategy to pack their squad with run of the mill English academy players in order to win the league. We never done it under Walter, McLiesh or Advocaat so why is it all of a sudden vogue or a wise strategy?

If there was a group of 11 French, German or Italian players in the squad there would be questions asked of them as a whole in terms of unity, mentality or clique's existing in the squad. I'm yet to see when the chips are down in this side a Glen Kamara, Aribo or Flanagan having the attitude to kick a few backsides or show the passion required to get us out the shyte when things are against us... they simply don't care!
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Pandered english academies. 3 words to make me completely disregard your post. Those english boys dont know what rangers is all about! Get me 11 Andy Hallidays... zzzzzzz
 
Kind of see your point. It goes a long way to explaining why the international team and the others just cant compete.

The countries who we would have had no problems dealing with are now basically playing us off the park, where we're still stuck in a timewarp.

This explains why scott brown is successful in scotland. Not the silkiest footballer but as another poster says an enforcer. It's our game that needs to change and its falling behind all the time. The whole structure needs ripped apart and started again. First port of call, must be the sfa. Kilmarnock being knocked out by a Welsh team, should really have brought the curtain down on the whole set up.
 
So that's the Management to the Players, the Media, Dubai, Referees, the SFA etc etc all to blame for the last 2 months.

May as well throw the English Academies on there for good measure.
 
English market is badly overpriced and doesn’t make for good shopping, The odd player yes .

Maybe when our own youth system starts supplying the first team which isn’t far away then we will have more winners.
 
foreverblue said:
Looking at our squad of 27 from Wikipedia, we have 11 players from 27 that have come from English academies, both elite or otherwise:

Tavernier
Edmundson
Goldson
Ojo
Foderingham
Kent
Flanagan
Aribo
Kamara
Barker
Firth

For me this is way too big a tranch of the squad that are coming from typically pandered English academies whereby the winning instinct isn't engrained into their mentality week in, week out. I think that's why they also enjoy the Euro nights and challenges as it's more technique focus as opposed to mentality and physicality, which whether we like it or not, is how the SPFL is won.

When was the last time an SPFL was won by a squad made up so much of a player of a particular background (apart from Scots)? That lot at The Glitterdome have never made it their strategy to pack their squad with run of the mill English academy players in order to win the league. We never done it under Walter, McLiesh or Advocaat so why is it all of a sudden vogue or a wise strategy?

If there was a group of 11 French, German or Italian players in the squad there would be questions asked of them as a whole in terms of unity, mentality or clique's existing in the squad. I'm yet to see when the chips are down in this side a Glen Kamara, Aribo or Flanagan having the attitude to kick a few backsides or show the passion required to get us out the shyte when things are against us... they simply don't care!
Click to expand...


Have you ever watched the Scottish National team.

They roll over against absolute shite teams on a regular basis.

These threads get more ridiculous by the hour.
 
foreverblue said:
I'm not saying that the national team is the way forward, im just trying to analyse what has made squads successfull in the past. We have two Scots that are regularly playing (Jack and McGregor) - Celtic have 8 in their matchday squad. Is that any bearing on mentality to play in Scotland? I'm not neccesarily saying the team needs wholesale "Scottishness", it just doesn't need 11 English academy players in or around it in my opinion. It's never been a signing strategy that has ever bore fruit at Rangers or Celtic
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How about Woods, Stevens, Butcher, Roberts, Wilkins, Spackman, Steven, Francis, Walters, Falco and West?

That's not even counting Vinnicombe, Phillips, Sterland, Neil Woods and Drinkell.

That didn't work out too badly.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
How about Woods, Stevens, Butcher, Roberts, Wilkins, Spackman, Steven, Francis, Walters, Falco and West?

That didn't work out too badly.
Click to expand...

Aye let's quote a team that won the league 30 years ago...

There is a fundamental issue with attitude and mindset in our squad, 11 of 27 are from English academies... far more from one group than any other.

No team in the history of the SPL/SPFL has won a league title with this strategy adoption. As i've said numerous times, if there were 11 french, german, chinese or ethiopian players in the squad I think we'd be questioning the rationale. AGAIN AS I'VE SAID i'm not saying get rid of them all but why does it need to be so many?
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Have you ever watched the Scottish National team.

They roll over against absolute shite teams on a regular basis.

These threads get more ridiculous by the hour.
Click to expand...

Again, i'm not saying become more Scottish... I just think we've got too many players from one particular school of football and it ain't working.
 
Theknight said:
How do you know they are typically pandered?

I think people are looking too deep for reasons at the moment tbh. They were good enough Academy players on Wednesday night.
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I'm saying European football is where they are comfortable due to the speed, proper referreing and style of play. It doesn't suit the SPFL over 38 games...
 
beary mcbearface said:
The plan since the Warburton days has been to recruit players from English academies with the intent of selling them back to the inflated English market for a profit.

It hasn't worked because the players we've brought in haven't been much good.

Our most successful signings recently haven't come from that market. Is that really surprising if we consider it's not exactly infamous for value for money?

It's also true that our worst have come from there as well.

Hiring Gerrard was an extension of that concept, so it seems unlikely to change, in fact paying an inflated fee for Kent means it's full steam ahead.
Click to expand...

This is the nail on the head...
 
chilebear said:
Your nationality is your nationality. Its down to coaching.
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It is but if you have never had that winning mentality drummed into you, you are in for a big shock when you come here.

If you look at the list of players the op has stated and see where them players have come from im not shocked in the slightest they are struggling here
 
Do people understand the microscopic analysis that goes on at these academies.

Sure there will be players that slip through the net and are wrongly jettisoned, but they are not as
common as people might think.

The big clubs, that spend millions on their youth set up, don't get it wrong very often.
 
Hang on, we’re getting beat by teams full of Scottish academy players and forefingers who we’ scoff at if Rangers wanted to sign them. Yet it’s all because of the “pampered” English academies, when those academies also turn out the England first 11? And the Scottish academies are turning out the Scottish National team?

Nah.
 
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foreverblue said:
Haha i'm struggling to get it right in my own head but there is a fundamental attitude problem within our squad and the overriding trend in the squad is English academy players - in fact almost 50% are from this background.


English academy players are developed for their league, their style of play and their mentality. I’m not saying we should have none in the squad but 11 is far too much in my opinion. Name me an SPL winning squad of the last 20 years that has adopted such a strategy?

Plus the 3 you mentioned are with elite global clubs, with elite global managers playing within an elite football structure (EPL, CL)
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Harry McGuire and Dominic Calvert Lewin didn't start with an elite global club.Dele Ali and Ryan Sessengon are another 2.Ben Chilwell is now England's left back.Another one is Jamie Vardy who came from lower league football.
Jordan Pickford unbelievably is England's goalkeeper but he came from the lower leagues as well.
 
foreverblue said:
Aye let's quote a team that won the league 30 years ago...

There is a fundamental issue with attitude and mindset in our squad, 11 of 27 are from English academies... far more from one group than any other.

No team in the history of the SPL/SPFL has won a league title with this strategy adoption. As i've said numerous times, if there were 11 french, german, chinese or ethiopian players in the squad I think we'd be questioning the rationale. AGAIN AS I'VE SAID i'm not saying get rid of them all but why does it need to be so many?
Click to expand...

Arguably our strongest possible line up at the moment has 2 Scots (McGregor and Jack), 3 English (Tav Goldson and Kent), a Swede (Helander) , an Ulsterman (Davis), a Croat (Borna), a Canadian (Arfield), a Colombian (Morelos) and a Romanian (Hagi).

That doesn't look like a club over favouring one particular nationality to me mate.
 
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I don't think it's as black and white as "Oh it's the English players" "Oh it's the Scottish players". It's down to that team as a unit in general and it starts from leadership at the top.
 
Where else would you suggest we get young, profitable players from?

Because they're certainly non-existent in Scotland.
 
the bridge said:
I’m with this a little bit. It’s definitely a heavy jumper and one that players are allowed about one mistakes worth of grace before the moaning and the stress levels from the stands take their toll. Our tolerance for error is lower than any other club it seems.
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Any character weakness will be found out at a club like Rangers, there is no doubt about that.
 
I actually agree with the premise that it's important for Rangers or any other Scottish club to have as much Scottish talent in their squads as possible.

The problem at Rangers specifically is a combination of there simply not being enough targets that are good enough and not giving our youth an extended chance.

I'm not talking about McCrorie or Docherty either
 
I can see where the OP is coming from but there is something else contributing to our present slump and that is attitude, both ours and our opponents. Our opponents have been brought up to hate Rangers both on and off the field and to make sure that we are harried and kicked off the park when they play us. This has been aided and abetted by the officials and the SFA, many of whom hate Rangers with a passion which has been inculcated over the years and nurtured by Liewell and his acolytes.

Our guys are good technical players and some of our players are world class but don't realize the depth of hatred there is out there against them when they step on the field. Until we make sure that when they come to Rangers they understand this and are prepared to fight with as much passion as is displayed against us, we will struggle domestically.
 
Scottish football is a backwater that is not moving forward in any way. The international team tells you where we are. It represents our league which is still kicking lumps out each other. It's an accepted way of football in this country,whilst everywhere else has changed.

If you want to see how a small country operates their football, look no further than croatia. They are technically gifted and can also be physical if need to be,but will always try to beat you by fast,passing and skillful football.

Why cant we get near them? They have been in every tournament since they became independent and even reached the wc final. The only reason they're club teams dont do so well is because they're top players play all over europe.

They have roughly the same population,so I'm not having the small country excuse.
 
foreverblue said:
I'm not saying that the national team is the way forward, im just trying to analyse what has made squads successfull in the past. We have two Scots that are regularly playing (Jack and McGregor) - Celtic have 8 in their matchday squad. Is that any bearing on mentality to play in Scotland? I'm not neccesarily saying the team needs wholesale "Scottishness", it just doesn't need 11 English academy players in or around it in my opinion. It's never been a signing strategy that has ever bore fruit at Rangers or Celtic
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I don’t know the background/leanings of the Scots playing for the mhanks, but this is another consequence of what was done to us.

The scum have been able to hoover up the best Scottish players.

Some may disagree but we need a nucleus of Scottish players to be consistent in scotland.

It’s a weird and fucked up footballing backwater but we need players who get that.

It’s clear we have a squad that’s talented but we need more to do what we need domestically
 
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