Tavernier needs moved on

RoyalT said:
Nope.

Tav is massively important for the team
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He's massively important by design.

He's the captain and main set piece taker.

He's very good at showing for the ball and driving us forward.

The other players look for him and are happy to pass responsibility on to him - some far too readily. To be fair to Tav, he's never hidden when so many around him have.

He's also our biggest financial outlay on the field.

If he wasn't there, we'd have a good amount of cash to reinvest in a replacement and other areas of the team and we would have someone else taking set pieces. Aspects of his play would undoubtedly be missed but he's a bigger liability defensively than ever and it will only get worse.

Not all players we let go have to be shit fringe players. Sometimes you have to replace an important player to move forward as a team.
 
Bear84 said:
He's massively important by design.

He's the captain and main set piece taker.

He's very good at showing for the ball and driving us forward.

The other players look for him and are happy to pass responsibility on to him - some far too readily. To be fair to Tav, he's never hidden when so many around him have.

He's also our biggest financial outlay on the field.

If he wasn't there, we'd have a good amount of cash to reinvest in a replacement and other areas of the team and we would have someone else taking set pieces. Aspects of his play would undoubtedly be missed but he's a bigger liability defensively than ever and it will only get worse.

Not all players we let go have to be shit fringe players. Sometimes you have to replace an important player to move forward as a team.
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One of the most sensible posts I’ve seen, Some fans want us to be replacing Scott wright and John souttar with 20/30k a week signings, Sometimes you gotta replace an important player to change the dynamic of the team
 
Orange Peel said:
Hopefully stick around with not too many appearances?
If I need to explain this to you it's pointless.
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Well if you've completely written the bloke off like you clearly have then I guess it is pointless yes.
I'm of the view if he does stick around another year then some solid additions to the squad will give the manager more option to take him out of the team here and there to avoid a collapse in form and physical shape like he seems to have had the past couple months. Bloke has played more or less every minute of every game for many years now. Burnout inevitable.

I'm not going on any more about it because your mind is set. Who am I to try change it. I just have a different view that doesn't necessarily mean keeping him around will automatically lead to failure next season.
 
A1bertz said:
I don't think its form. I just think that age has caught up with him. His athleticism by in large masked his deficiencies. With that now diminishing he looks very exposed in a key position.

We should be asking him to step aside and let Sterling settle into his position.

My fear is he and Goldson are the 'experience' that Clement wants for next season....maybe even Jack again for one more year also.
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I agree he has lost a yard but he is our top scorer and is also top of the assist table.Our other scorers are a loanee in Simah who is constantly injured and Dessers who is another many fans want rid off.
If we had better goal contributions from our midfield and a settled strike force that regularly scored then fair enough but until we do i think it is a bad idea to take his goals and assists out of the team,they far outweigh any defensive lapses he has on occassion imo.
 
Next season? I'd be dropping him for the CF. He is absolutely terrified of them. Only time he starts to come on to a game is when we are getting beat. It's a terrible mentality. He should be going out there and destroying Greg fucking Taylor ffs and should have Maeda in his back pocket. Let them worry about you, not you going out terrified to get off to a bad start.
I hope PC plays his strongest 11 from the start. None of this, play into the match, thats what's had us beat each time he's set up against them this season. We should be going out and going 100 mph from kick off. Leave that mhob stunned, not knowing what's happened. They'll crumble! I can't go seeing that Brenda with a big cheesy all over his face at full time again, talking as if he's the special one
 
I do think it's probably best all round for Tav to move on this summer. Get himself a good final pay day and hopefully get the club a few million (absolutely no chance are we getting some massive fee for a 33 year old) and the chance to move on from the Tav safety net. It just feels like it's come to a natural end right now.
 
Bear84 said:
He's massively important by design.

He's the captain and main set piece taker.

He's very good at showing for the ball and driving us forward.

The other players look for him and are happy to pass responsibility on to him - some far too readily. To be fair to Tav, he's never hidden when so many around him have.

He's also our biggest financial outlay on the field.

If he wasn't there, we'd have a good amount of cash to reinvest in a replacement and other areas of the team and we would have someone else taking set pieces. Aspects of his play would undoubtedly be missed but he's a bigger liability defensively than ever and it will only get worse.

Not all players we let go have to be shit fringe players. Sometimes you have to replace an important player to move forward as a team.
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Very fair comments tbh
 
Awaydays72 said:
The reason that doesn’t make sense, is because everyone of their filthy fans, don't want tav replaced as captain.
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well your not making sense,you dont know everyone of them.The ones i have the misfortune to have any dealings with rate Tav as one of the few players they fear especially from any free kicks around the penalty area.
 
Weedoddieno6 said:
I think a lot of fans will be shocked when he moves on and we don’t miss him that much. I really hope he wins the cup and gets a move this summer and leaves on a decent note.
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Exactly, someone else will take the pens and score 3/4 of them. Have the defender defend and the assists will Come from players in front of him with the goal count against us reduce.
 
Midfield General said:
well your not making sense,you dont know everyone of them.The ones i have the misfortune to have any dealings with rate Tav as one of the few players they fear especially from any free kicks around the penalty area.
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I’m sure they would be settle for a few set piece situations around their penalty area, if it meant him leading out rangers again next season. But I don’t suppose I can 100% confirm that, as I don’t know everyone of them.
 
F
MancGer86 said:
Well if you've completely written the bloke off like you clearly have then I guess it is pointless yes.
I'm of the view if he does stick around another year then some solid additions to the squad will give the manager more option to take him out of the team here and there to avoid a collapse in form and physical shape like he seems to have had the past couple months. Bloke has played more or less every minute of every game for many years now. Burnout inevitable.

I'm not going on any more about it because your mind is set. Who am I to try change it. I just have a different view that doesn't necessarily mean keeping him around will automatically lead to failure next season.
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From even a financial point of view it is senseless.
 
TJ72 said:
We cannot go into next season with him as an ever-present yet again. It is beyond a joke this guy plays practically every minute for us season after season and is part of such disappointment.

Big changes are needed and Clement needs to gut this squad, starting with the supposed “leadership group” (Tavernier, Goldson, Lundstram).
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hopefully saturday is his last
 
He has been a great signing, one of our best. And he is the one that event his season is the one the whole team looks to in order to step up and do something. That's now 1) unfair on him, 2) detrimental to our overall approach and 3) something he is increasingly less able to do.

Throw in that his defensive frailties are now even more glaring.

It's time for him to move on. Whether that means moving on in terms of his status and centrality to our team or moving on completely to another club , I am not sure.
 
Awaydays72 said:
I’m sure they would be settle for a few set piece situations around their penalty area, if it meant him leading out rangers again next season. But I don’t suppose I can 100% confirm that, as I don’t know everyone of them.
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There is a peculiar type of madness that affects this board especially after a defeat by them.
We have issues all over the park.We have no settled central defenders we are down to one left back who is good but pernamently injured,we have a midfield that is pedestrian and hardly score any goals we have a a centre forward that has scored 23 goals but misses good chances and we have Simah on loan who can score but is also another injury prone player,but let's forget all that and focus on the team captain and top scorer who is always available.
Until we have a settled team with double figure goal contributions from midfield and forwards it would be bonkers to take our top scorer and assist provider out the team.
Then you can move on to the next whipping boy.
 
Midfield General said:
There is a peculiar type of madness that affects this board especially after a defeat by them.
We have issues all over the park.We have no settled central defenders we are down to one left back who is good but pernamently injured,we have a midfield that is pedestrian and hardly score any goals we have a a centre forward that has scored 23 goals but misses good chances and we have Simah on loan who can score but is also another injury prone player,but let's forget all that and focus on the team captain and top scorer who is always available.
Until we have a settled team with double figure goal contributions from midfield and forwards it would be bonkers to take our top scorer and assist provider out the team.
Then you can move on to the next whipping boy.
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Still should have been enough to beat Ross county and Dundee. I want a new captain and vice captain at Rangers next season.
 
The argument that if you take Tav’s goals and assists out of the team that ‘someone else will do it’ really does suggest people aren’t watching us. A lot of those players have the ball a lot of the time and they don’t score or assist.

Maybe you guys will get your wish, and if you do, I certainly hope that we can replace both him at right back as well as his directness, goals and assists. My suspicion is that we will not know how good he is until he has been run out of town.
 
Awaydays72 said:
I want a new captain and vice captain at Rangers next season.
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What if all the positional issues are addressed by bringing in the personnel that PC wants to bring in to properly address his style of play? Do you think it still wouldn't work out simply because James Tavernier is captain? Has he really become that much of a cancer to the whole squad?
 
legalbeagle said:
The argument that if you take Tav’s goals and assists out of the team that ‘someone else will do it’ really does suggest people aren’t watching us. A lot of those players have the ball a lot of the time and they don’t score or assist.

Maybe you guys will get your wish, and if you do, I certainly hope that we can replace both him at right back as well as his directness, goals and assists. My suspicion is that we will not know how good he is until he has been run out of town.
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I've seen games where there are upwards of 20, sometimes even 30 efforts on goal. Varying degrees of difficulty of course but still significantly higher than most sides in most leagues. I'm pretty sure Tav doesn't have the majority of them, which lends to your point about other more attacking lads in the team being wasteful with the numerous chances they have. So his goals and assists (assists being pretty badly overlooked by a lot of ppl) suggests he's still hugely productive on the front foot.

He's contracted for 2 more years? So providing a decent bid doesn't come in for him then surely it makes sense to try and adapt his role in the squad to maintain the levels of attacking productivity while limiting his defensive responsibilities. I think he deserves the opportunity to show he can adapt. Whether he does or not is up to him. He can't carry on being a 50+ game a season right back though because he is an easy target there and not likely to get better.
 
MancGer86 said:
What if all the positional issues are addressed by bringing in the personnel that PC wants to bring in to properly address his style of play? Do you think it still wouldn't work out simply because James Tavernier is captain? Has he really become that much of a cancer to the whole squad?
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He's a serial loser as are a few others.
They all have to be cleared out.
I think Goldson could find his form again but hopefully not with us.
If they stay it will end in tears.
 
MancGer86 said:
What if all the positional issues are addressed by bringing in the personnel that PC wants to bring in to properly address his style of play? Do you think it still wouldn't work out simply because James Tavernier is captain? Has he really become that much of a cancer to the whole squad?
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I think we had more than enough to take care of Ross county, but we didn't. I think a captains role is far more important, and if it’s the right man, can have a much bigger affect on the players around him, than what some posters on here do.
Fcuking energy alone should have been enough to do the job in Dingwall, and a captain plays a massive part in making sure those around him do their job to ensure that happened.
Tav has many qualities, but telling others around him, to simply get the finger out, isn’t one of them.
If you look at his personal stats, they’re incredible for a rb, and that’s what some folk are struggling to see past, and see the bigger picture.
If you look at his win record against that lot and what he’s won as Rangers captain, it’s depressing.
He’s had his time as Rangers captain, it’s time for someone else to be that leader.
 
Bear84 said:
He's massively important by design.

He's the captain and main set piece taker.

He's very good at showing for the ball and driving us forward.

The other players look for him and are happy to pass responsibility on to him - some far too readily. To be fair to Tav, he's never hidden when so many around him have.

He's also our biggest financial outlay on the field.

If he wasn't there, we'd have a good amount of cash to reinvest in a replacement and other areas of the team and we would have someone else taking set pieces. Aspects of his play would undoubtedly be missed but he's a bigger liability defensively than ever and it will only get worse.

Not all players we let go have to be shit fringe players. Sometimes you have to replace an important player to move forward as a team.
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He's now essentially what Paul McStay was to Celtic. Someone who'd won a title in among losing another 10 with picking up a cup here and there.

Seen as important to the fans due to being a single shining light in points when there was far worse in the team but still part of a general failing and captain or not, needs moving on to change things up.
 
Wordy_Rappinghood said:
There would still be people defending them on here. No matter what.

The sacred cow era has to end.
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I think more people are beginning to think his time is up, but as you say there are still many who think he can't do anything wrong. IMO he has to go. I appreciate what he's done for us over the years, but it's time for a massive clearout, starting with tav.
 
Awaydays72 said:
I think we had more than enough to take care of Ross county, but we didn't. I think a captains role is far more important, and if it’s the right man, can have a much bigger affect on the players around him, than what some posters on here do.
Fcuking energy alone should have been enough to do the job in Dingwall, and a captain plays a massive part in making sure those around him do their job to ensure that happened.
Tav has many qualities, but telling others around him, to simply get the finger out, isn’t one of them.
If you look at his personal stats, they’re incredible for a rb, and that’s what some folk are struggling to see past, and see the bigger picture.
If you look at his win record against that lot and what he’s won as Rangers captain, it’s depressing.
He’s had his time as Rangers captain, it’s time for someone else to be that leader.
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I've not really any issue with the captaincy being taken from him if a more natural leader is brought in. There isn't one in the squad at present though. I think removing the burden from him would be a blessing for him myself at this stage tbh.
But using that as an excuse for other players not pulling their finger out to beat sides they should be burying every day of the week I find a bit harder to accept tbh.
The Celtic games, we're just not as good as them man for man currently. And certainly Tav himself has had a nightmare and been so second best in the duels with Maeda its cringeworthy to watch at times.
I've said it before, My basis for keeping Tav is using him further fwd where he can still be an attacking threat without the responsibility defensively. That's up to Tav to show he's got the willingness and the football iq to adapt his position. I don't know if he has or not but I'd like to see him given the chance to do so.
Captaincy, there isn't a more natural leader in the current squad than him, which speaks volumes really. Hopefully Clement has a leader in mind for next season. And better players across the squad would help alleviate some of the burden on Tav too.

I probably sound like a fanboy but I'm not. He's infuriatingly sloppy at times on the ball and switches off badly defensively. but the idea of just discarding 17 goals and 10 assists or whatever numbers he has from this season, to just say fk off to that without at least giving him the chance to adapt his own role for the benefit of new players around him, I think that's a bit rough on him.
 
Midfield General said:
well your not making sense,you dont know everyone of them.The ones i have the misfortune to have any dealings with rate Tav as one of the few players they fear especially from any free kicks around the penalty area.
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Most see both him and Goldson as joke figures in all honesty, not that I care particularly what they think

There is zero fear from them when they are named on any team sheet
 
Awaydays72 said:
If you look at his win record against that lot and what he’s won as Rangers captain, it’s depressing.
He’s had his time as Rangers captain, it’s time for someone else to be that leader.
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His answer about his favourite goal he scored this season was telling.

Any Rangers captain scoring a winning goal in a cup final says it's that one.

His pick was a goal in a game v Hibs which we won 3-1 that ultimately counted for hee haw...and the reason was that it was a personal record.

He's not of the right mindset to be Rangers captain.
 
MancGer86 said:
I probably sound like a fanboy but I'm not. He's infuriatingly sloppy at times on the ball and switches off badly defensively. but the idea of just discarding 17 goals and 10 assists or whatever numbers he has from this season, to just say fk off to that without at least giving him the chance to adapt his own role for the benefit of new players around him, I think that's a bit rough on him.
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I think it's like the argument we should keep Dessers. We've pretty much got a 30 goal a season striker there (if he was hitting penalties like most do - not that that's a dig at Tav scoring them) but there's so many obvious issues with him that not many are upset that we replace him.

You can look at the inidiviual points and make a case for him but ultimately time, circumstances, age and his own defensive issues all count as a group of things which suggest even his goal involvements aren't enough to outweight everything else.

It's time...
 
EIAFF said:
He's now essentially what Paul McStay was to Celtic. Someone who'd won a title in among losing another 10 with picking up a cup here and there.

Seen as important to the fans due to being a single shining light in points when there was far worse in the team but still part of a general failing and captain or not, needs moving on to change things up.
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The McStay comparison won't go down well but it's probably not far off.

I always felt McStay had a beaten look about him, he expected to come second. When they did finally win the league it was with fresh players who hadn't had years of Rangers lording it over them to destroy them mentally.

From another sport, England finally ended Australia's Ashes dominance in cricket in 2005 with as fresh a team as they could find. Opting for younger players over those with emotional baggage from previous doings.
 
EIAFF said:
I think it's like the argument we should keep Dessers. We've pretty much got a 30 goal a season striker there (if he was hitting penalties like most do - not that that's a dig at Tav scoring them) but there's so many obvious issues with him that not many are upset that we replace him.

You can look at the inidiviual points and make a case for him but ultimately time, circumstances, age and his own defensive issues all count as a group of things which suggest even his goal involvements aren't enough to outweight everything else.

It's time...
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It's only time when they can be replaced with better. Which is yet to be seen. Hoping PC and his guys can pull some strings to bring in better players then the arguments about keeping Tav, Dessers etc will become less.
 
Bear84 said:
The McStay comparison won't go down well but it's probably not far off.

I always felt McStay had a beaten look about him, he expected to come second. When they did finally win the league it was with fresh players who hadn't had years of Rangers lording it over them to destroy them mentally.

From another sport, England finally ended Australia's Ashes dominance in cricket in 2005 with as fresh a team as they could find. Opting for younger players over those with emotional baggage from previous doings.
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Much as we messed up 10iar big time, Celtic finally being rid of Grant and McStay definitely helped them compete for the title.

That and signing Marc Rieper, a defender who could, you know, actually defend.
 
MancGer86 said:
It's only time when they can be replaced with better. Which is yet to be seen. Hoping PC and his guys can pull some strings to bring in better players then the arguments about keeping Tav, Dessers etc will become less.
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I'm not saying he's better (yet) but we appear to have a RB option in Sterling that would solve a few issues Tav has.

Freeing up Tav's wage to go and sign a centre half or midfielder is a better use of that cash.

At 32 and with his legs getting worse and worse, it's well and truly time.

This team needs gutted. You'd maybe have got a year or two more out of Tav if we had 10 players other capable of winning the league but we don't and he becomes part of a problem that needs a solution.

People are seemingly having a time of it accepting that we need to make change. If he's still the captain next year and featuring for us, we won't win the league again given the paucity of our resources to improve the other areas.

He's now a year older since the last time and the time before that that it was the case. It's time.
 
EIAFF said:
I'm not saying he's better (yet) but we appear to have a RB option in Sterling that would solve a few issues Tav has.

Freeing up Tav's wage to go and sign a centre half or midfielder is a better use of that cash.

At 32 and with his legs getting worse and worse, it's well and truly time.

This team needs gutted. You'd maybe have got a year or two more out of Tav if we had 10 players other capable of winning the league but we don't and he becomes part of a problem that needs a solution.

People are seemingly having a time of it accepting that we need to make change. If he's still the captain next year and featuring for us, we won't win the league again given the paucity of our resources to improve the other areas.

He's now a year older since the last time and the time before that that it was the case. It's time.
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It's going to be a very interesting summer by the look of it.
 
EIAFF said:
I'm not saying he's better (yet) but we appear to have a RB option in Sterling that would solve a few issues Tav has.

Freeing up Tav's wage to go and sign a centre half or midfielder is a better use of that cash.

At 32 and with his legs getting worse and worse, it's well and truly time.

This team needs gutted. You'd maybe have got a year or two more out of Tav if we had 10 players other capable of winning the league but we don't and he becomes part of a problem that needs a solution.

People are seemingly having a time of it accepting that we need to make change. If he's still the captain next year and featuring for us, we won't win the league again given the paucity of our resources to improve the other areas.

He's now a year older since the last time and the time before that that it was the case. It's time.
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This is what I don't understand, why the concept of no Tavernier seems so alien to some.

I mean, he can't play forever anyway!
 
IMG-1437.jpg


SofaScore have him as the highest average marks out of ten player in the league.
 
Would have punted him years ago, send it long enough. Its great our right back scoring 20 goals a season, but when he is also continually at fault for about 20 a season its not good enough.
 
Wordy_Rappinghood said:
This is what I don't understand, why the concept of no Tavernier seems so alien to some.

I mean, he can't play forever anyway!
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What's hard for me to understand is how easily some people are prepared to write off the individual contributions of him. People hate the stats and are bored of hearing them no doubt but goals decide games and he's been personally involved in a shit load of them yet again. Not easy contributions to move on from without a significant upgrade across the whole squad.

It's not a case of simply not being able to live without James Tavernier at Rangers lol we know he can't go on forever. But if he's still contributing positively on the front foot when why not try and accommodate him. My only suggestion is give him a chance to modify his position to make the most of what attributes he has left for the benefit of the team. If he can't then he's not much of a leg to stand on. But I think he's worth working with alongside a freshen up of the squad. You don't. That's fair also.
 
MancGer86 said:
I've seen games where there are upwards of 20, sometimes even 30 efforts on goal. Varying degrees of difficulty of course but still significantly higher than most sides in most leagues. I'm pretty sure Tav doesn't have the majority of them, which lends to your point about other more attacking lads in the team being wasteful with the numerous chances they have. So his goals and assists (assists being pretty badly overlooked by a lot of ppl) suggests he's still hugely productive on the front foot.

He's contracted for 2 more years? So providing a decent bid doesn't come in for him then surely it makes sense to try and adapt his role in the squad to maintain the levels of attacking productivity while limiting his defensive responsibilities. I think he deserves the opportunity to show he can adapt. Whether he does or not is up to him. He can't carry on being a 50+ game a season right back though because he is an easy target there and not likely to get better.
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There is definitely an issue whereby a section of the support simply associate him with the years where we are struggling. I think it is unfair, and that he would have been a great player for us in an Advocaat team (for example). Ultimately, he is a player that contributes a lot and, to your point, I would rather we found a way to get the best out of him in the team.

I do think he has struggled recently, but rather than being ‘done’ as a player, maybe he has just reached empty for the season.
 
MancGer86 said:
What's hard for me to understand is how easily some people are prepared to write off the individual contributions of him. People hate the stats and are bored of hearing them no doubt but goals decide games and he's been personally involved in a shit load of them yet again. Not easy contributions to move on from without a significant upgrade across the whole squad.

It's not a case of simply not being able to live without James Tavernier at Rangers lol we know he can't go on forever. But if he's still contributing positively on the front foot when why not try and accommodate him. My only suggestion is give him a chance to modify his position to make the most of what attributes he has left for the benefit of the team. If he can't then he's not much of a leg to stand on. But I think he's worth working with alongside a freshen up of the squad. You don't. That's fair also.
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Mate, he can score 40 a season but I'd rather he could concentrate for 40 seconds in an Old Firm game that could have turned the tide of the last few years.

Time for a team without that weakness and less reliant on one figure.
 
legalbeagle said:
The argument that if you take Tav’s goals and assists out of the team that ‘someone else will do it’ really does suggest people aren’t watching us. A lot of those players have the ball a lot of the time and they don’t score or assist.

Maybe you guys will get your wish, and if you do, I certainly hope that we can replace both him at right back as well as his directness, goals and assists. My suspicion is that we will not know how good he is until he has been run out of town.
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If we miss him that much it'll be because we've failed to adapt our play to suit the players we do have.

He's just not quick enough anymore to play RB, or any other position.
 
legalbeagle said:
The argument that if you take Tav’s goals and assists out of the team that ‘someone else will do it’ really does suggest people aren’t watching us. A lot of those players have the ball a lot of the time and they don’t score or assist.

Maybe you guys will get your wish, and if you do, I certainly hope that we can replace both him at right back as well as his directness, goals and assists. My suspicion is that we will not know how good he is until he has been run out of town.
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What if we were a normal team not set up to get goals from a right back?
 
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