This zonal marking caper

Let’s Gio said:
It’s horrible.

Gives people a pass for not defending properly ‘I marked my space’

As the player runs to head the ball
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When seasoned pros like Neville and Keane on Sky rubbish it, we need to listen.
We've tried it, it doesn't work, we can't make it work, and our season is sliding down the tubes.
Only an idiot would persevere with something that is killing your team.
Baffles me.
 
I’m genuinely amazed that Colin Stewart is our set piece coach. I don’t think he’s even an adequate goalkeeping coach.
 
Has a team ever done it with success. A mind the poets done it under Strachan and it was a disaster. Pretty sure Lennon tried it the year we won 55 and was the same.
 
Arsenal didn’t concede from a corner last season with zonal marking.

Majority of top sides do it.

However, if it’s not working it needs to be abandoned pronto. Can work on it again next pre-season if necessary.
 
JohnD said:
Most teams deploy a mixture of man-to-man and zonal marking these days. It's just that almost all of them do it a lot more competently than us.
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All day long bud.

Whether you go zonal, part zonal or man to man, each system has its flaws and non of them are foolproof.

It’s all about an understanding of roles one responsibilities and more importantly being able to deliver them with a degree of competence.
 
We seen the same goal at Ibrox for PSV aswell where Goldson is under the ball and barely jumping and Sands is missing.

Mark a man and get people on the posts and try head the ball away fs.
 
OlegKuznetsov said:
Removes responsibility

What happened to;

“Thats your man. Mark him. Stop him getting to the ball”

Instead we have players with their feet planted standing looking at each other.

Take responsibility. Mark your man. Stop him scoring.
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Agree with this. The counter argument with VAR is that the way teams defended before may not be possible now.

That said, however you choose to defend, all players need to take responsibility.

If the rumour that the goal-keeping coach is in charge of set plays is accurate then i’m afraid we headed towards a very dark place!!
 
NegrisLob said:
It's good in theory if you have highly intelligent players to deliver it, by that, I mean the top players in the world with football IQs off the scale.

We don't have that, we have players used to man marking, and it's become a bad joke. Just confuses players in the box as their first thought is 'am in the right zone', rather than 'theres the ball, im a gonna head that'
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Been saying that for ages, if you have guys like Maldini and Baresi, you're brilliant - different case with Goldson and Sands.
 
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Fergie90 said:
We seen the same goal at Ibrox for PSV aswell where Goldson is under the ball and barely jumping and Sands is missing.

Mark a man and get people on the posts and try head the ball away fs.
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A massive problem we have is that Goldson is a shitebag and won't go up for a challenge, losing goals while Goldson stands a looks on in fear has become the normal now. If I was an opposition manager, I would be telling my players to aim corners at Goldson as its a free hit at goal.
 
GVB56! said:
The first I really remember doing it for some strange reason was Benitez at Liverpool and it always cost them
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Always remember Man Utd played them at anfield and Ferguson didn’t put any Man U players in the box at their first corner :D They were all standing free at the edge of the box
 
Kris1872 said:
Has a team ever done it with success. A mind the poets done it under Strachan and it was a disaster. Pretty sure Lennon tried it the year we won 55 and was the same.
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Ally McCoist tried zonal marking when he was our manager.
Quell surprise, it was a disaster.
 
OnTheWay said:
Dortmund, Braga, Redbull, PSV at home and now Ajax.

And that's just the European games it's cost us in.
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That is insane isn’t it? We concede from a corner in almost every Euro tie, so what do we do? Sell Aribo and Bassey and drop Morelos. The 3 guys who actually used to header the ball away.
 
Fergie90 said:
We seen the same goal at Ibrox for PSV aswell where Goldson is under the ball and barely jumping and Sands is missing.

Mark a man and get people on the posts and try head the ball away fs.
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TBF to Goldson, by the time the ball gets to his zone, he is never winning the header from a standing start against an opponent who has a run on him (See Bassey on Weds)

Everybody needs to do their job for zonal to work and at the moment the guys meant to block the runners are doing a pathetic job at it.
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Whether youre Man Marking or Zonal Covering you have to be switched on.

These Rangers Defenders seem like their minds are off doing something else when the game is going on.

Its happened so often to the same players and its going to keep happening.
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Regardless of system of defending, Sands had a forward less than 2ft from him and didn’t seem to be aware of the danger.

You can play any system you like but if you aren’t alert to what’s going on around you as a defender, you are toast.
 
We haven't got a natural ball winner in our team for corners and it's been happening for years not just in Gio's time. Ideally if we stopped conceding corners that would help our cause.
 
Calgacus said:
This. I've noticed that it happens quite a lot when we defend corners, there's normally 3 players who all sort of concertina and much of the time none of them get a head to the ball.
It's something they are working on, because it happens in every game at least 2 or 3 times, but eff knows what it's supposed to achieve.
We are so vulnerable to corners & free kicks it's untrue.
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Hadn’t thought of this concertina tact and while I’ve not yet looked at any other examples it seems its worth considering
I wonder if the positioning of two Ajax players directly in front of Jon is an indication that is the yard the kicker was aiming for and this blocked his access to attack it .
One other factor is I don’t think any player can allow themselves to be neutered from the game at any point in time let alone in that defensive scenario . That Goldson and Tav and Sands had zero influence is an awful outcome and collectively was disastrous to us .
 
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On the flip side, the problem with man marking is when the ball is there to be attacked, many players will just mark their man when they should be attacking the ball. Again, it’s a cop out of wider responsibility. So Gio is right, the bigger picture is about desire etc.

The best set up is a mixture of both- people man marking and a couple of players in zones who are good at attacking the ball.
 
Zonal seems to have an impact on our availability of bodies to have men on the post. I’ve lost count in all the games that Davis has played for us over the years how many times he’s cleared, or nearly cleared a header.

It wouldn’t have mattered to the final outcome the other night, but I think a man on the post stops their header.

Surely there’s dialogue between the players and management about something as simple as this. It seems we are over complicating everything right now. Our strongest defender should go up against theirs until we work through the team, with the weakest either being the man left up the pitch or on the post.
 
I just miss marvellous Marvin, the ball came into the box and it was his, regardless of who gets in his way.
 
Is the system we play not the 2 CD’s man marking and the rest zonal?

Whatever the system, our biggest issue is a lack of physicality, especially across the back 4, even our goal keeper is relatively small. Goldson is the only player with any stature but he doesn’t exactly use his size well.
 
Hardly any of our players are good in the air unfortunately. Goldson isn't giving it his all but he knows he won't be dropped. McLaughlin perhaps should come for everything within 8 yards, just make it the standard rather than sometimes?
 
GazzaLegemd said:
Is the system we play not the 2 CD’s man marking and the rest zonal?

Whatever the system, our biggest issue is a lack of physicality, especially across the back 4, even our goal keeper is relatively small. Goldson is the only player with any stature but he doesn’t exactly use his size well.
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Whatever we are doing it isn’t working and hasn’t worked for a long time. As someone said on H&H Gio has more coaches than Douglas Park. About time they sorted this mess out.
 
Most teams use a mix of zonal man-to - man.

Man City lost 1 goal from corners the whole of last season. They use 4 of their best in the air across 6 yard area. Then 4 others in front as markers/blockers.

For Ajax goal from corner we had 4 across 6 yard box (sands, Goldson, Lundstram and Colak). A difference I can spot straight away is that we had only Tav in front of that, as opppsed to Man City having 4. At no point did the Ajax Goal scorer have anyone up against him.

If setting up zonally, having Tav as only blocker is an absolute joke and never going to work
 
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All of the Lights said:
Most teams use a mix of zona man-to - man.

Man City lost 1 goal from corners the whole of last season. They use 4 of their best in the air across 6 yard area. Then 4 others in front as markers/blockers.

For Ajax goal from corner we had 4 across 6 yard box (sands, Goldson, Lundstram and Colak). A difference I can spot straight away is that we had only Tav in front of that, as opppsed to Man City having 4. At no point did the Ajax Goal scorer have anyone up against him.

If setting up zonally, having Tav as only blocker is an absolute joke and never going to work
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We usually have 3 in front. Don't think they ever manage to stop anybody mind you
 
We don't score from corners or free kicks from wide and we do not defend them well either.

Something far wrong. We don't plsy with much pace or aggression too and it seems to be getting worse.

The thrill of Seville and new season optimism firmly in the bin.
 
Viirus72 said:
Beale said they gave up space on these wide postions on purpose. We conceeded more from these postions because we were tight centrally and didn't allow teams to play through us.
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The best example of that for me was Braga away. Their wingers were very dangerous so instead of our full backs going out to meet them 1v1 we defended very narrow knowing that we would win the header when they had to play in to the box.
 
Paisleyprod said:
We don't score from corners or free kicks from wide and we do not defend them well either.

Something far wrong. We don't plsy with much pace or aggression too and it seems to be getting worse.

The thrill of Seville and new season optimism firmly in the bin.
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We don't have any aerial threat at all other than Goldson so it's easy to defend.
 
Regardless of the alleged merits of zonal working it isn't working for us. So I hope we return to good old fashioned man-marking and doing whatever is needed to clear the ball from our box.

Never mind the bollocks, just stop the ball going in our net.
 
Bigbluebear said:
We don't have any aerial threat at all other than Goldson so it's easy to defend.
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Colak is decent in the air.

It is easy to defend but we can't defend at our end either never mind attack.

Team don't seem to know what's happening or what they are doing.
 
Paisleyprod said:
Colak is decent in the air.

It is easy to defend but we can't defend at our end either never mind attack.

Team don't seem to know what's happening or what they are doing.
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He is decent in the air when there is no physical contest to be had.

Easily outmuscled.
 
When we concede a corner these days it feels like giving away a penalty you expect the team with the corner to score more often than not.
 
Man marking or Zonal (or anal in our case) one fundamental is that when defending corners and/or set pieces you have man on both posts.

That's not rocket science or some new tactical breakthrough it's just basic common bloody sense.
 
RH_2020 said:
That’s twice I’ve seen Goldson crouch down in the zonal set up when the ball is crossing in (last night and PSV at home) not sure if it’s being coached or he’s just a big sh**ebag?
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I’ll be honest, on the Ajax one, I think he got a shout.
 
LarkfiedLoyalNS said:
When we concede a corner these days it feels like giving away a penalty you expect the team with the corner to score more often than not.
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I agree, it’s incredibly painful.

We have a large amount of coaches, we have experienced players - we must do better. It starts with getting Goldson a settled partner
 
Zonal marking isn't working for us and it takes responsibility away from players IMO.

Pick a man, stick with him.

Not only that but in zonal marking it's so easy for the opponents to get a run on you since you're standing still in your zone and jumping from that position.
 
All of the Lights said:
Ajax sent one player short and kept 3 guys right on edge of box, so it moved 2 of those blockers away. Too easy.
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No Ajax had two inside the 6 yard box directly in line with Jon in goal . At least when the ball was delivered that is . I would guess they were there to hinder and obstruct his view/path to the 6 yard line .

What’s interesting is the committed 4 players into that tight two square yards and delivered accurately into that spot . A cluster of attackers . And left the rest of the line void .

I assume if we zoomed out we would see a pile of Ajax players surrounding our pen box and some of our guys trying to cover them so any second phase release would have been a danger too .
 
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BajanBear said:
Regardless of the alleged merits of zonal working it isn't working for us. So I hope we return to good old fashioned man-marking and doing whatever is needed to clear the ball from our box.

Never mind the bollocks, just stop the ball going in our net.
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Football pretty much by definition is played in zones mate , all the way from positioning to playing a back 4 it is zonal .The de-facto System for covering space .

I know your talking corners and assume dead balls too here but there is nothing inherently wrong with zonal attitudes to defending these imo .

It’s how it is done and ‘layered’ and most importantly what the manager said - people need to take responsibilities. No one can look at that corner and tell me that happened . Players have jobs . There wasn’t even a clever tactic involved there that I can see it was all conventional .
 
ChildOfGod said:
No Ajax had two inside the 6 yard box directly in line with Jon in goal . At least when the ball was delivered that is . I would guess they were there to hinder and obstruct his view/path to the 6 yard line .

What’s interesting is the committed 4 players into that tight two square yards and delivered accurately into that spot . A cluster of attackers . And left the rest of the line void .

I assume if we zoomed out we would see a pile of Ajax players surrounding our pen box and some of our guys trying to cover them so any second phase release would have been a danger too .
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One of 3 guys on edge is close enough that they could play short. Not close enough that we needed to commit two players out to it like we did though!
 
Given we’ve not been able to keep a clean sheet against decent opposition for a long time illustrates its flawed
 
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