mdingwall
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UEFA coefficient rankings – the importance and impact
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UEFA coefficient rankings – the importance and impact
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UEFA coefficient rankings – the importance and impact
- Thread starter mdingwall
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WilldeBoer
Well-Known Member
That helps me understand a bit better how the rankings work although it's still quite complicated (understandably).
I never really get whether Scottish football would be better or worse off as a whole with teams like St Johnstone, Hibs or Aberdeen making it to the conference league and inevitably getting pumped every match. Is it better them being out than taking a tanking off Belgian, Polish and Ukrainian teams in a group stage? Purely hypothetical question because they don't look likely to make it anytime soon.
I never really get whether Scottish football would be better or worse off as a whole with teams like St Johnstone, Hibs or Aberdeen making it to the conference league and inevitably getting pumped every match. Is it better them being out than taking a tanking off Belgian, Polish and Ukrainian teams in a group stage? Purely hypothetical question because they don't look likely to make it anytime soon.
Next season one of them is all but guaranteed to be in the ECL groups, at the very least (I think).
Yeah, cup winner spot will be guaranteed group stage football.
Ter
Well-Known Member
You would like to think if one of the other teams gets to a group stage then they would use the money to reinvest in their squad and improve. It would have been absolutely massive for St Johnstone if they had got to either of the group stages and may have avoided them punting Kerr and McCann.
It wouldn't make any difference if they were out or losing games in the group, in terms of the coefficient.
What we need though, and what this will hopefully bring, is a few clubs up here making some more money from European football over the next few years which will help them improve and do a bit better at that level. The ECL is one where they could pick up a few points which would make a difference.
Texas ranger
Well-Known Member
It’s a double edged sword being successful as a country in the tournaments from Scotland’s point of view because historically teams other than Celtic and Rangers, over the course, don’t pull their weight and contribute at a level that allows continued success. Making progress at some point means additional teams in European competition as is happening this season. Since the country points are an average of the number of clubs contributing, it falls if they don’t contribute enough on average.
TQ3
Well-Known Member
Being generous to them @Texas ranger, the co-efficient has only improved due to us, they had put Scotland off the map in Europe, when 6 and 7 goal defeats were not unusual.
Since Stevie G has arrived Scotland’s points have rocketed.
Andy0Combs
Active Member
It's better for one of them to still be in. Getting pumped in most games has no real impact but they may have picked up a point or 2.
For every win in European group competition you gain 2 club coefficient points a draw is 1 and a loss 0.
The national association ranking adds up the points gained by the clubs and divides it by the number of participants in competitions this season, so where as a win for us last season added 2 points to our club ranking and 0.5 points to the national ranking (4clubs) this season 0.4 points is added to the national ranking (5 clubs). So due to their being 5 scottish clubs this season us and well them need to do more to keep the national coefficient up as each club point is worth less to the national ranking.
GreigC
Well-Known Member
Indeed
and people do need to realise this, winning the league is not the certain ticket that folk think it is.
It's likely, but not 100%
Texas ranger
Well-Known Member
I am but historically they have been contributors too, just calling it as it is. In the 2019/20 season their club coefficient was 10.0 which was joint 32nd in Europe and is a very decent contribution. They followed it up with 3.0 the following season which is poor.
That same season Rangers contributed 11.0 points, our first real contribution in a long time. Followed up by 15.0 points last season which is excellent and combined this is what is moving us and Scotland forward.
Theportyunionjack
Well-Known Member
We really need the diddy teams in the conference league and getting something.
The drain on our coefficient is unreal.
The drain on our coefficient is unreal.
ClubFootZzZ
Well-Known Member
As I understand it if they literally got 0 points in a group stage then we'd see no co-efficient benefit, however were they to even get one draw it's points on the board for us that we wouldn't get otherwise. Basically, it's 6-18 (depending on how many qualified in a given season) extra games outwith us and them for us to get points on the co-efficient board that we haven't ever really been able to rely on.
If you're pessimistic about things you could argue they'd be cannon fodder for teams from countries that are around us in a group stage and so would simply see us gain nothing while those around us gain points from these teams. At conference level especially though I'd back Hibs/Aberdeen to be reasonably competitive in a group; so as a worst case scenario I'd expect us to be no worse off through having them there, with the potential benefit that the extra cash European football would bring into these clubs could raise the standard of the domestic game here.
I haven't done the math on it because I am shit at maths, but I'd also imagine if Scotland is to maintain its current position around ~9th in the co-efficient table right now we will need to have a third team in the groups at least every other year, because having the fifth team in Europe diminishes Rangers/Celtic's ability to carry the co-efficient when our points are divided by 5 instead of 4.
Hopefully that doesn't happen. I think it's Man City or PSG this year which should therefore be fine for us
Our coefficient points will improve when the Progress result drops off - with the Celtic coefficient points for the same year dropping off - this should see them drop in the rankings and we will go up and should overtake them in the rankings
Yep, that happens next season.
rangeral
Well-Known Member
We went ahead of them this season due to us having nothing coming off for 2016/17 compered to 7.00 for them and for next season it is 0.25 against 8.00 for 2017/18 drop off.
Rangers started on 31.250
Celtic started on 27.000
Of course what happens this season might lessen the impact a bit for them
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WilldeBoer
Well-Known Member
That's a good point. I'm now siding towards thinking it's better overall to have them in it. The conference league brings an interesting new dynamic to the overall coefficient picture. As you say, our competition could pick up valuable points this European season. I suppose we'll need to wait to see how it all plays out.
Northhiglander
Well-Known Member
So we probably want them as runner up and get pumped by a champions league drop out team?
rangeral
Well-Known Member
They already have 3.00 back for getting to the group stage so need another 5 points to match the 8.00 dropping for next season we also have 3,00 but would lose 0.25 at the end of the season
For 2022/23 as it stands on the club coefficent
Rangers 34.000
Celtic 22.000
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Big Joke New
Well-Known Member
The chances of that happening are extremely slim
Big Joke New
Well-Known Member
That's not what is in use for this year though is it? Those coefficients will be used next year surely? What is in use this year is Celtic 34.00 Rangers 31.25. That's why they nearly got into Pot 1 of the EL group stages?
rangeral
Well-Known Member
Yes you are correct but that is how they decide the coefficient for the draw on a 5 year cycle
2016/17 to 2020/21
But for the current season we are now ahead of them based on the points that drop from 2016/17
Whatever the clubs pick up in coefficient points those will the figure used for 2022/23 draws
UEFA 5-year Club Ranking 2022
UEFA European Cup Football - UEFA 5-year Club Ranking 2022
kassiesa.net
Texas ranger
Well-Known Member
Bert Kassies site is a great place to get the current situation on a lot of things related to European club tournaments. The link below takes you to the current standings of the country rankings. It’s showing Scotland as having slipped to 9th position because we had actually improved to 8th position this season before Austria picked up more points than us in the last series of fixtures. I watch this to see how the countries around Scotland are performing too.
You can see for us it really matters from position 7 down. The top six are well ahead of the rest. Next season Russia lose 12.6, Austria lose 9.75, Ukraine 8.00, etc while we will drop off 4.00. So it’s important we try and stay close to these countries in points total gained this season and subsequent seasons. Our target is really that 7th spot year in year out.
rangeral
Well-Known Member
Champions League
1st - Play-off round - Champions Route
2nd - QR2 - Non Champions Route
Europa League
CW - Play-off round
Europa Conference League
3rd - QR3
4th - QR2
If 1st or 2nd win Scottish Cup then 3rd place gets CW spot, 4th moves to ECL QR3 and 5th place get ECL QR2
If CL winner qualifies for CL Group Stage via own League then 1st place gets automatic entry to CL Group Stage
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Beer Belly Loyal
Well-Known Member
We should move above Arsenal in a couple of years if they fail to get into Europe again for next season (I think).
I'll probably be wrong (again) but Arsenal will drop 21.00 then 26.00 points and be left with a coef of 33.000.
Rangers, if they maintain their recent average will pass them quite easily.
How the mighty have fallen.
I'll probably be wrong (again) but Arsenal will drop 21.00 then 26.00 points and be left with a coef of 33.000.
Rangers, if they maintain their recent average will pass them quite easily.
How the mighty have fallen.
rangeral
Well-Known Member
At the end of 2023/24 they would have 33.000 if they don't qualify for next season as you say
The rest is up to us to maintain
scottishpoet
Well-Known Member
being out or losing is the same effect, they get 0 points and our points are divided by the number of teams who were in at the start
So in the group stages last year, for the country co efficient, every point we ( and celtic) got was divided by 4, effectively 0.25 points per game.
This year every point we (and celtic) get will be divided by 5, effectively 0.20 points per game. This is because we raised the co efficient to a level more teams from scotland qualified.
This is why these teams continuously under performing in the qualifiers is a nightmare. if they win qualification games then they contribute positively.
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Aberdeen or Hibs would get a few results in the groups of the conference league. The standard of team in pots 3 and 4 is abysmal. They just need some luck in the draw to get there.
Ced's Atomic Dustbin
Well-Known Member
Realistically it is better for Scotland's co-efficient to have fewer teams competing because the contribution to the coefficient is the average number of points earned by all teams that enter from a country. Only ourselves and Celtic are likely to earn more than a negligible amount of points.
If Aberdeen had negotiated a relatively easy path to the Conference league it would have significantly helped our coefficient this year, even if they only took a few points in the groups.
However, once a team is in, it's 100% better for them to qualify for the group stage. Firstly there are no negative points awarded, so even if you got humped 6-0 in every game, you would earn zero points, the same as if you hadn't qualified. Even sneaking a draw somewhere and losing the rest is better than not qualifying. There are bonus points too - 4 points automatically for reaching the CL and a guaranteed 3 points minimum for qualifying for the Europa league.
The other thing to remember is that a win is a win at any stage of the competition. It doesn't matter if you play Real Madrid or Lincoln Red Imps, you get the same amount of points for beating either. Winning 7-0 earns you the same as winning 1-0 and a draw in the 2nd leg of a tie is worth the same whether it puts you through or not.
