We’ve accomplished 2 huge goals - just 1 to go

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
1. Be competitive against Celtic - we know on our day we can compete and beat them now. The win at Parkhead was far from a one off. A great achievement given the financial gulf.

2. Be competitive in Europe - we’ve surpassed all expectations on the European stage. The results against some genuinely good opposition have been incredible. This is our level and we’ve reached it far quicker than anyone had expected. Of course we’re aiming for the riches of the CL but what a ride it’s been competing in the Europa. Some might argue it’s preferable.

3. Greater consistency against the rest in Scotland -
in theory, the easiest of our goals. The majority must have thought this would be our first accomplishment. I certainly thought there was no reason we couldn’t beat the rest 3-4 times a season, then worry about Celtic. Turns out it’s not that simple. Greater Rangers teams than our current one have struggled for that consistency. I also don’t buy the argument that the teams have regressed. Well they possibly have in 20 years, but as have we. Every game against us has also been a cup final, the conditions are often poor and of course it’s a completely different game in that we have to break them down. The most frustrating part this season is we all thought we were there. An outstanding first half.

Having said that, if you told me we’d accomplished the first two goals, including beating Celtic three times in a year and reached the last 16 of the Europa, and all we had to do for a right good chance at winning the league or domestic success was be that bit better against the likes Kilmarnock, Hearts and Aberdeen, I’d have been absolutely delighted.

Continue to build our squad sensibly in the summer. That may mean letting a couple go, perhaps bringing some good experience and we’ll be in a very good place. Much to look forward to.
 

PrivateAye72

Well-Known Member
In fairness, we were pretty consistent pre-winter break. If we can get some more consistency In Jan/Feb next season we'll be right in the mixer.

Also they are having an extraordinary season thus far, which only highlights our rotten form right now. Any other season they'd have also dropped points since the turn of the year. Win all our games up to the split (including St J GIH) and we'll have, at least, halved the gap. And things wouldn't read as badly as they do RN.
 

The Lone Sniper

Well-Known Member
1. Be competitive against Celtic - we know on our day we can compete and beat them now. The win at Parkhead was far from a one off. A great achievement given the financial gulf.

2. Be competitive in Europe - we’ve surpassed all expectations on the European stage. The results against some genuinely good opposition have been incredible. This is our level and we’ve reached it far quicker than anyone had expected. Of course we’re aiming for the riches of the CL but what a ride it’s been competing in the Europa. Some might argue it’s preferable.

3. Greater consistency against the rest in Scotland - in theory, the easiest of our goals. The majority must have thought this would be our first accomplishment. I certainly thought there was no reason we couldn’t beat the rest 3-4 times a season, then worry about Celtic. Turns out it’s not that simple. Greater Rangers teams than our current one have struggled for that consistency. I also don’t buy the argument that the teams have regressed. Well they possibly have in 20 years, but as have we. Every game against us has also been a cup final, the conditions are often poor and of course it’s a completely different game in that we have to break them down. The most frustrating part this season is we all thought we were there. An outstanding first half.

Having said that, if you told me we’d accomplished the first two goals, including beating Celtic three times in a year and reached the last 16 of the Europa, and all we had to do for a right good chance at winning the league or domestic success was be that bit better against the likes Kilmarnock, Hearts and Aberdeen, I’d have been absolutely delighted.

Continue to build our squad sensibly in the summer. That may mean letting a couple go, perhaps bringing some good experience and we’ll be in a very good place. Much to look forward to.
Good summary.
 

Nerf Herder

Well-Known Member
Also they are having an extraordinary season thus far, which only highlights our rotten form right now. Any other season they'd have also dropped points since the turn of the year. Win all our games up to the split (including St J GIH) and we'll have, at least, halved the gap. And things wouldn't read as badly as they do RN.
I agree, it's not unstaunch to say that their league form is unreal and most Rangers teams past would be struggling to keep up.
 

paddingtonbear

Active Member
Need silverware.
definitely - if we reverse back 18 months that would absolutely be one of primary goals. i think we have probably exceeded the targets set in europe (competitive in group and then getting last 16) and versus strategy i am sure we would have expected 1 trophy by now out of the 3 domestic knock out cups.
 

nelster

Well-Known Member
Need silverware.
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.

We all want to win everything, but have perspective on what is actually required to drive Rangers up that last level at the moment.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.
Whilst I fully acknowledge your rational, fact-based case I find it impossible to endorse it.
 

pandager1

Well-Known Member
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.

We all want to win everything, but have perspective on what is actually required to drive Rangers up that last level at the moment.
Totally agree. I take much more joy from nights like last night than winning a Scottish or League Cup.
 

nelster

Well-Known Member
Whilst I fully acknowledge your rational, fact-based case I find it impossible to endorse it.
Agreed. I get why people feel that way. We were brought up on winning something = good year.

They are still good, but footballs changed, generating 30 mil of European revenue is insane for a club from where we were at and puts us back at Elite level.

A Rangers back at Elite level > a Rangers 1981 cup winning team that didnt have a sniff of a League Title until Souness.

But barring actually delivering a League Title the elite level Rangers is back and will have a shot at the Champions League in 18 months. League Titles are going to follow because of the European work, not a cup win.
 

paddingtonbear

Active Member
Whilst I fully acknowledge your rational, fact-based case I find it impossible to endorse it.
fact based and rational. however like you i cant fully endorse it. the financial contribution is of course key but winning and success becomes part of you and currently we have broadly a team of players with minimal trophies and medals. the honours list also does not say last 16 and 3m. it will be blank for several of these years. it is imperative for the club and players to knock the "losing" tag/mentality/phychosis and return to being winners. i was making a comment above that winning a trophy was (or should have been) one of the key goals in 18 months. going forward when that is put to rest and we celebrate lifting a trophy it is right to say league and euro run become the measures of success.
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.

We all want to win everything, but have perspective on what is actually required to drive Rangers up that last level at the moment.
Great post and could not agree more.
 

DamBuster72

Well-Known Member
Need silverware.
Correct.

What we have done in Europe in the last 2 seasons is nothing short of miraculous but it was deemed as a secondary objective (or bonus) at the start of both seasons; albeit one that brings significant increase in revenue from it.

From speaking to others, the general consensus was that in 2018/19 the objective was silverware of some sort (Scottish/League Cup) and closing of the gap against them in the League. On both counts we failed.

2019/20 objective was to win the League, domestic cups a welcome bonus but not a necessity and with Europe, it would be great to go on a run but again not a necessity and with some suggesting it could be a hindrance to staying competitive in the League.

Nights like last night are fantastic for the club but ultimately we need silverware. A good Euro run was not enough to save Le Guen from the bullet and likewise it won't be enough for the gaffer in the long run.

We need that Scottish Cup and then it's onto next year in the League where there are no excuses, it has to be delivered.
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
No.3 is win silverware surely?
It’s one and the same tbh. Consistency against the rest, like Aberdeen last season, would have potentially brought silverware.

There’s too much made of the cups, however.

Had we held on against Hibs, would we be in a better place right now? I doubt it very much.

The cups are basically an extension of the league - they make up the treble. A sole cup doesn’t mean an awful lot these days. Perhaps sad but true.
 
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.

We all want to win everything, but have perspective on what is actually required to drive Rangers up that last level at the moment.
agree with everything you say mate apart from waving a Scottish Cup changes nothing , I M O it will add the winners mentality that i think we need in order to take the next/final step to becoming champions
 

Chapman billie

Well-Known Member
I think we need to be patient about winning the league and not let the 10 in a row thing panic us. We all know it's not a "real" 10 and not a wonderful achievement if they get it. Bayern Munich for example are going for 8 in a row in a league light years ahead of ours. That would be some achievement. I actually think next season will bring 55. They will sell Edouard and probably others. Brown and Griffiths are reaching the end of their careers.The guys they bought in January, including the new Lewandowski, cant get a game and the money they have banked may well go somewhere other than football.
Having said all that winning the Scottish Cup this season would be huge for the Club, manager and fans. Saturday is massive.
 

TynesideTrueBlue

Well-Known Member
We need to turn these European performances against the dross in Scotland, we need to win the Scottish Cup now to put a marker down for next season. Europe is a bonus we have over achieved it’s bread n butter that matters.
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
It’s one and the same tbh. Consistency against the rest, like Aberdeen last season, would have potentially brought silverware.

There’s too much made of the cups, however.

Had we held on against Hibs, would we be in a better place right now? I doubt it very much.

The cups are basically an extension of the league - they make up the treble. A sole cup doesn’t mean an awful lot these days. Perhaps sad but true.
The League Cup would have meant the world to us and our season would already have been a success in November. Gerrard and McAlister were banging on about how the 1st one led their Liverpool side to win the next available 5 cups
 
I’d say Europe actually is much much more than any domestic cup.

If folk want to still live 30 years ago, go for it.

Another 3 million guaranteed last night

So what if Umar Sadiq won Rangers the league cup last year ?

What good does it do long term ? Our ability to win a league or make money to be the best ?

Would not have anyone tell me that winning a cup last year or this year is more important than the European revenue and points.

We are a bawhair from re-establishing ourselves on the elite stage which in turn makes a title win a coin toss every season. We are highly unlikely to win it this season, deal with it, but deal with it in knowledge of where we actually stand not just ‘ach we didnae win it again’

I would not want to be on the financial planet we would be facing had we won an Umar Sadiq league cup and bombed in Europe for 2 years.

We would be years from a league title.

Its a coin toss now each year, deal with the reality of not guaranteeing a win but actually being right there with the shot.

Waving a Scottish Cup in May changes nothing.

We all want to win everything, but have perspective on what is actually required to drive Rangers up that last level at the moment.
We're not spurs. We win trophies! Success breeds success.
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
The League Cup would have meant the world to us and our season would already have been a success in November. Gerrard and McAlister were banging on about how the 1st one led their Liverpool side to win the next available 5 cups
...but ultimately not the league.

There’s the same situation with the cups in England. Did Arsenal not win the FA Cup about 3 years on the trot? Man Utd a couple of wins in recent years? What good has it done them? They’re both lightyears behind Man City and Liverpool.

The League Cup would have been huge for us because we’d have beaten Celtic. Same applies to the Scottish Cup. Anything that dents their success is a good thing. The trophies themselves these days? Not that big a deal unless you’re not fighting for the league.

As I said, would Scottish Cup success in 2016 have changed anything? Would it have made that squad mentally stronger because they’d picked up a medal? Some of them possibly but we’d still be making the same mistakes the following season.
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
...but ultimately not the league.

There’s the same situation with the cups in England. Did Arsenal not win the FA Cup about 3 years on the trot? Man Utd a couple of wins in recent years? What good has it done them? They’re both lightyears behind Man City and Liverpool.

The League Cup would have been huge for us because we’d have beaten Celtic. Same applies to the Scottish Cup. Anything that dents their success is a good thing. The trophies themselves these days? Not that big a deal unless you’re not fighting for the league.

As I said, would Scottish Cup success in 2016 have changed anything? Would it have made that squad mentally stronger because they’d picked up a medal? Some of them possibly but we’d still be making the same mistakes the following season.
All fair but a cup win in 2016 under Warburton and his shitebags or a 2019 cup win with Gerrard are 2 very different 'what ifs'
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Correct.

What we have done in Europe in the last 2 seasons is nothing short of miraculous but it was deemed as a secondary objective (or bonus) at the start of both seasons; albeit one that brings significant increase in revenue from it.

From speaking to others, the general consensus was that in 2018/19 the objective was silverware of some sort (Scottish/League Cup) and closing of the gap against them in the League. On both counts we failed.

2019/20 objective was to win the League, domestic cups a welcome bonus but not a necessity and with Europe, it would be great to go on a run but again not a necessity and with some suggesting it could be a hindrance to staying competitive in the League.

Nights like last night are fantastic for the club but ultimately we need silverware. A good Euro run was not enough to save Le Guen from the bullet and likewise it won't be enough for the gaffer in the long run.

We need that Scottish Cup and then it's onto next year in the League where there are no excuses, it has to be delivered.
Who said they were the objectives? You? The board? Gerrard?
 

Kingdom Bear

Well-Known Member
Win the Scottish Cup
Last 8 of the Europa League (with a favourable draw)
And 3 points behind them in the league is still achievable (If we can kick into gear against the dross)

Big improvement on last year and a sign of progress, ready to build on for proper title challenge next year
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
All fair but a cup win in 2016 under Warburton and his shitebags or a 2019 cup win with Gerrard are 2 very different 'what ifs'
Are they really?

We’ve shown we’re capable of beating Celtic now. It was pure fortune on their part that we never won that day. Would winning that cup have prevented us from collapsing in the last month?
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Are they really?

We’ve shown we’re capable of beating Celtic now. It was pure fortune on their part that we never won that day. Would winning that cup have prevented us from collapsing in the last month?
Gerrard and McAllister alluded to as much before the game, the fact we lost probably shows how badly the management team were shaken psychologically and I'm sure has added to our January/February hangover
 

Amato15

Active Member
For me, a trophy is a must, as amazing as a run in Europe is, the longer we go without something to show for it at home the harder it
gets to win one. A trophy changes the mentality for some of those players and gives them something real to build on
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Me and that's the flavour I got from other bears I spoke to.

Do you disagree with them?

If so, what were your objectives for each season?
So really it's a meaningless objective then as the board and management team will be setting objectives for the season.

I'd love to win a trophy but I don't think it's that important over all unless it's the league.

Do you think if we failed to get into the europa league 2 years running but had won all 4 domestic cups in the time it would put us in a better place to win the league? Absolutely not as the finances from europe are what we need and it's also a platform for us to showcase players to maximise fees, and raises our profile for bringing players in.

European success that we have had far eclipses winning a league cup.
 

DamBuster72

Well-Known Member
So really it's a meaningless objective then as the board and management team will be setting objectives for the season.

I'd love to win a trophy but I don't think it's that important over all unless it's the league.

Do you think if we failed to get into the europa league 2 years running but had won all 4 domestic cups in the time it would put us in a better place to win the league? Absolutely not as the finances from europe are what we need and it's also a platform for us to showcase players to maximise fees, and raises our profile for bringing players in.

European success that we have had far eclipses winning a league cup.
I understand the finance argument but if you're asking me if winning 4 domestic cups would allow us to be more prepared to win a League then yes, I believe it would. Aside from the UEFA Cup run, Walter under-performed in Europe yet clocked up domestic trophy after domestic trophy. Winning becomes addictive, it fosters a winning mentality that then pushes you to continue for more.

What did you believe our primary objectives were at the beginning of the 18/19 and 19/20 seasons?
 
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