Weedoddieno6
Well-Known Member
What a revelation that could be. How can so few understand this?
We Can't Keep Going Into These Games With James Tavernier as Captain
- Thread starter prenzlauerbear
- Start date
ThreestripeS
Well-Known Member
Thankfully that'll change next year when we don't need to rely on him.
Maybe then if he's still here he can concentrate on trying to defend and no getting caught out of position in every game.
ThreestripeS
Well-Known Member
And was he good last week the week before that the week before that..........?
FabioSilva'sDUG
Active Member
26 goal contributions, only one behind the mentally challengeds £20m man would suggest he still has a bit to offer. 32 is not old for a player these days. Modric is about to start a CL final in midfield at 38.
Tavernier has is faults but in terms of quality he is still easily one of our most talented players. Get a couple of proper CB's beside him and a proper midfield and you will see a massive difference.
FabioSilva'sDUG
Active Member
It's easy to criticise a player, there are times where it's absolutely warranted but there's also times where a player is being used wrong and given poor instructions. We don't know what specific instructions Clement is giving him. Maybe if he was told not to venture over the half way line we'd get on better, I don't know. I just know he gets caught out of position too often.
ecossebear
Well-Known Member
No one is denying his goals. That should be a bonus for a defender not an expectation. I want a defender who can actually strike. I want a defence that don’t constantly bottle big games. We need 2 new CB and then play Sterling at RB, Yilmaz LB and spread the burden on scoring goals around the team.
WLF
Well-Known Member
2 of O’Riley’s goals have been penalties. 15 of Tavernier’s have been penalties, so nearly 8 times the number. People need to start giving a bit of context to his numbers. I’m not sure if their £20m man hits 90% of their set pieces either but I don’t believe he does.
Having Tavernier as the main man at Rangers isn’t working, surely it’s time for people to accept that it doesn’t work and cut the chord. When you consider that he’s only going to get worse and worse at his current age it seems crazy stupid to want to continue to persevere with this. The bottom line here is he’s regularly costing the side goals in huge fixtures, trying to pretend that’s offset by being a good penalty taker doesn’t make any sense.
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FabioSilva'sDUG
Active Member
Since when do penalties not count? That's a new one. £20m man O'Reily has missed a few this season so perhaps not as easy as it seems to consistently convert them.
The guy is consistently in the running for player of the year by his peers and team of the year every season. He's still one of our best players and has been a mainstay in the best defensive record in the league. Our problems lie elsewhere, mainly in the middle of the park and having zero cohesion in our attacking play. We play hoof ball.
Macky
Well-Known Member
Again, my post is from Feb 2023
Manuel
Well-Known Member
I don't understand how for all these years Tavernier's special powers makes all these midfielders and attackers suddenly stop scoring and assisting?
Sima and Dessers do just fine, RW position and midfield has always lacked numbers.
I'm up for trying anything to be fair but i wonder what comfort blanket you guys will cling to when the 'old guard' are gone and we're still winning nothing?
Manuel
Well-Known Member
It generally is the end, Stevie G, GvB, Beale now big Phill, once captain removes the pic they're gone.
I used to do the same with posters on this bit of my wall Graham Roberts, Derek Ferguson and Graeme Souness, everyone left, heartbroken i was.
barcelonabear
Well-Known Member
It actually scares me that people want to rebuild around Tav again! It’s not just Tav himself, it’s the whole system that we use when he’s in the line up! They just refuse to believe there could be a better team with an actual rebuild.
barcelonabear
Well-Known Member
Try have sensible discussion like that and you get laughed at, Does Tav have amazing stats? Yes, But they refuse to have the discussion that he could potentially be harming the team dynamic, Goldson covered him for years now he’s lost pace, he’s always had a babysitter infront of him, sometimes two when we had jack at the right of a 3.
It’s not a dig at Tav it’s just some fans have the opinion a new system would suit us and that’s hard to do with him
Plus I would genuinely like to know what calibre of club what want him? With these amazing stats and can’t possibly be dropped, there must be some cracking sides after him surely???
Manuel
Well-Known Member
I've not seen one person say build a team round him?
People are questioning why others don't contribute as much surely?
Lets see if this manager has the cojones to change captain, get a fitter, younger team to play his wide open, easy to play through system.
Lets see if big Phill 'gets it' as his FF groupies have been telling us for the past few months?
Manuel
Well-Known Member
I sometimes wonder if guys like yourself watch us, Goldson never covered him for years that was Ryan Jacks job, funnily enough in a team that went 9 games undefeated against the bheast.
Goldson covering him is a new thing in big Phill's system.
He never had a babysitter in front of him, always behind him as Tavernier tends to be the furthest forward on the right?
He's 33 soon, at that age it will be Saudi or MLS I'd imagine, only if he and family want that of course?
ThreestripeS
Well-Known Member
Watch him jogging back in every game because his legs are gone.
Watch him try to stop balls going into the box.
There is a case for him to play one up and let Sterling play RB it can't be any worse.
If we are having to rely on Tav and his 26 goal contributions how about shifting your focus on those who he is digging out a hole?
We would all love a goal scoring midfielder and 3 attackers who share the goals.
That’s 4 players that we don’t have. Until we do we need Tav’s contribution.
barcelonabear
Well-Known Member
And if he and his family don’t want to were stuck with him for another two seasons, brilliant
Manuel
Well-Known Member
That's down to crazy managerial decisions, offering 30+ year old players 4 year contracts, you can't blame players for signing them.
Anoldranger
Well-Known Member
I am really past caring if you keep him or he goes ! If he goes that would be the end of listening to the same old thing after every game we lose so that at least would be a blessing. Mind you am sure the haters would find some other fall guy pretty quickly.
ClassicCaldow
Well-Known Member
Tav was signed as a lower-league player in 2015, unfortunately he has not improved from that that. Yes he has scored many goals but he is primarily a defender, that is something he is not.
Wullie Henderson's cigar
New Member
He's finished, quiet as a mouse, doesn't compare with real leaders who could provide drive and tenacity when required. A lazy appointment, who scores goals at difficult moments, under pressure. However, unable to lift and inspire for the jersey as far as I can see. Time for a change, bring in younger players who can carry the flag forward.
Los Pollos Hermanos
Well-Known Member
I'm the same, best for all parties now.
Los Pollos Hermanos
Well-Known Member
Absolute nonsense, he's improved massively from his first few seasons, you don't go from a lower league player to Europa League top scorer without improving, give your head a wobble.
MRT 99
Well-Known Member
38 games, 11 wins, 4 with no fans and 3 dead rubbers when the leagues already done. Even if you don’t blame him personally there is definite scar tissue there and an expectation to be 2nd best. No other club in the world keeps players around this long time for actual change.
CaptainCourageous
Well-Known Member
It generally is the end, Stevie G, GvB, Beale now big Phill, once captain removes the pic they're gone.
I used to do the same with posters on this bit of my wall Graham Roberts, Derek Ferguson and Graeme Souness, everyone left, heartbroken i was.
Don’t think I ever had Gerrard. Certainly didn’t have Beale as never wanted him from the start.
Not even called for Clement to be sacked. He needs the summer, he needs to weed out the perennial losers and do it his way.
I will however mention some areas of concerns which most are picking up on.
TPP
Well-Known Member
We need a new captain and take the pressure away from Tav.
I wanted us to sign lewis Ferguson badly not only because hes a good midfielder, but he could have taken on that role now assuming we didnt sell him for fees that bologna were looking at pre injury.
We need a captain in the team who is vocal to those around us. If souttar could have taken the next level then it would have been him but hes not progressed enough.
I dont see many players out their locally to bring in either in the Scottish market.
I think Tav more than has his place in the team, but for his own sake needs that pressure removed.
I wanted us to sign lewis Ferguson badly not only because hes a good midfielder, but he could have taken on that role now assuming we didnt sell him for fees that bologna were looking at pre injury.
We need a captain in the team who is vocal to those around us. If souttar could have taken the next level then it would have been him but hes not progressed enough.
I dont see many players out their locally to bring in either in the Scottish market.
I think Tav more than has his place in the team, but for his own sake needs that pressure removed.
This is up there with the biggest load of BS I have ever read on here.
He hasn't improved from a Scottish Championship player?
I bet you were saying that when he lifted the league trophy and when we went to Seville though weren't you?
Jesus wept.
TerryMunro
Well-Known Member
Especially for him, he needs a new challenge. The Europa final run with the exceptional performance he did that season should never be understated but he is no longer able to repeat that performance and the team is set up for that purpose. It’s now detrimental.
andy5836
Well-Known Member
Exactly. How many top teams, or any team for that matter rely on their full back to be their main attacking threat. Pretty much none I'd imagine.
If we sign good midfield and attacking players this summer then Tav's bread and butter will all be about defending which he isn't very good at. He needs moved on to Saudi or wherever this summer.
It's actually not though.
Review how we play from probably the winter break and you'll see that for some weird reason Clement has tried to convert Tav into an inverted fullback. He's obviously been watching one too many City games and fancies himself a bit of a Guardiola.
Tavernier's attributes are crosses and arriving at the back post. Clement has took those away from the side. So to suggest the team is set up for Tavernier is IMO wrong.
You've cracked it!
Pity the people in charge of recruitment for the last 3 years haven't.
The utter imbeciles that have wasted the millions we frankly don't have and took the team backwards are the one's who should be getting hounded.
We've went from the likes of Aribo, Kamara, Davis, Morelos, Kent and Helander to Matondo, Lawrence, Silva, Souttar, Davies and Lammers.
All the while our best players like Tavernier and Goldson have gotten older and naturally lose a bit of what they had, we've replaced those around them with garbage and we've not even begun to replace them, hence they still start over 50 games a season.
Our failings are majorly down to recruitment.
TerryMunro
Well-Known Member
It was forced because he wasn’t able to run behind like before and get a cross into the box and when he did get a cross into the box it went straight to an opponent or went for a throw. We have setup the team to try to ensure Tavernier is the focal point for at least two seasons too many.
Gladstone
Well-Known Member
Tav's stats get skewed because we get a lot of penalties because of the turgid physical nature of Scottish football. He has scored 12 penalties in the league this season (and missed 4), a conversion rate of 75% which is about average for a penalty taker.
If Dessers had been our designated penalty taker and those 12 pens were added to his 15 goals he would now be on 27 goals for the season. It's reasonable to assume that Dessers would have scored at least 75% of them too, kind of expected from a striker.
If Dessers was now sitting on 27 goals people would be talking about what a great striker he was, he would have won player of the season etc. Just shows how penalties can skew stats in favour of the designated penalty taker.
If Dessers had been our designated penalty taker and those 12 pens were added to his 15 goals he would now be on 27 goals for the season. It's reasonable to assume that Dessers would have scored at least 75% of them too, kind of expected from a striker.
If Dessers was now sitting on 27 goals people would be talking about what a great striker he was, he would have won player of the season etc. Just shows how penalties can skew stats in favour of the designated penalty taker.
Manuel
Well-Known Member
Red flags have been there for weeks, he deserves time but I’m not too confident from what I’ve seen this past month or so.
WLF
Well-Known Member
Yeah how will we ever find another player capable of stepping up from 12 yards. Near impossible!
Coplandbear
Well-Known Member
I think he has to go in the summer take away the goals and penalties etc you have a regressing RB who is losing his limited pace and simply can't stop crosses or defend properly.
As a Captain he has been weak and certainly isn't this leader figure we keep hearing of in the dressing room like many others in and around the squad physically and mentally he's done and he will only get worse now his prime years are over also most times he plays against them he has a look of fear and that can't be allowed to continue.
Sell in the summer.
As a Captain he has been weak and certainly isn't this leader figure we keep hearing of in the dressing room like many others in and around the squad physically and mentally he's done and he will only get worse now his prime years are over also most times he plays against them he has a look of fear and that can't be allowed to continue.
Sell in the summer.
Tumbling Dice
Well-Known Member
In my opinion this "fullbacks providing width " is the major problem. We constantly see one of our midfielders dropping deep to accommodate this style of play, add into the mix both Tav and Borna are hopeless in defence and its a recipe of failure after failure.
Build a back four who are organised and actually capable of defending first and foremost. That leaves you six outfield players to create width, chances and goals. This "aye but Tav scores goals" is the definition of insanity!! Him and this system need to go.
Britannia Bear
Well-Known Member
Compare Tav to other captain's of the past. Does he measure up to them?
Hardly.
I long for a Rangers captain who would've had the underperformers up against the wall at HT on Saturday...Tav albeit has contributed well for us but doesn't have that in his locker. We can't have a captain who is absolutely petrified of Celtic, or let's a player like Maeda run him ragged time and again.
Time for change, top to bottom for me.
Hardly.
I long for a Rangers captain who would've had the underperformers up against the wall at HT on Saturday...Tav albeit has contributed well for us but doesn't have that in his locker. We can't have a captain who is absolutely petrified of Celtic, or let's a player like Maeda run him ragged time and again.
Time for change, top to bottom for me.
You realise Clement made that change after our best run of form under him both defensively and in terms of racking up points? So I'm not sure how your theory pans out.
TerryMunro
Well-Known Member
He made that change through a combination of necessity and the need to keep the current status quo in terms of the so called “leadership group” A group that I will be glad to see removed. The focal point of this group is James Tavernier and as such I would welcome if he didn’t kick the ball for our team ever again with the obvious exception of his well deserved testimonial.
You're completely ignoring the point I made because it doesn't suit your argument.
There was no necessity to change it. It was working.
We were playing ok to actually well in some games, winning games, 9 clean sheets on the bounce. Then for some reason Clement changed it and we fell apart.
It's actually the only change Clement has made since he's come in. If he were bold enough to make changes when it mattered like when we surrender a midfield to Celtic in his 3 matches against them we might not be doing so poorly.
You go on about Tavernier being a focal point as if that's a negative. He has contributed 26 goals or assists this season, more than a good contribution. The issue is those around him not being up to the required standard. Our transfer business for the past 3 years has seen us downgrade every position along with our important players getting older.
WarnbroTavernier
Active Member
Tavernier’s time is up. The fact he and the club can’t see that is selfish and will only lead to further disappointment and pressure on both
barcelonabear
Well-Known Member
What’s the worst that can happen if we get rid of tav? Finish 2nd like we do already
TerryMunro
Well-Known Member
The scenario you are creating was more an issue for Gio. He came in and tried to make a few subtle changes with Tavernier, it didn’t work and he was forced to go back to how it was which resulted in a decent run. Start of the new season he tried to implement his own style and the players reverted back to their losers mentality. It’s not up to the manager to play the team in a way that suits James Tavernier, it’s up to Tavernier to make it work.
Tavernier as a focal point was started by Warburton, it’s finished. The point you have proven is that there is no middle ground with Tavernier, if he plays the whole team needs set up for him and if not the whole team loses.
Caldow3
Well-Known Member
But it is one of our worries. And when we get to that issue, he needs replaced.
