What is/was the catalyst for our dramatic loss of form?

GazzaLegend

GazzaLegend

Well-Known Member
I’m trying to keep a level head now the dust has settled and understand what has brought about such a dramatic turn in fortunes over the past 5 matches.

This is not about the manager per se, he has done enough by getting us to this point to be the right man to take us into the next season and we need to back him.

I’m trying to find a tactical reason for such a dramatic change in performance. The sudden switch is every bit as dramatic as the change from bad to good when the gaffer came in.

The single biggest impact for me is the complete collapse of our midfield structure.

Back in January/February, we were playing g]some good stuff and we looked really secure at the back. One of our strengths was a high press, well coordinated and effective. We were also really good at winning the 2nd ball and winning the ball back quickly if we lost it.

I’ve given it some thought followimg tonight. Trying to take a sensble un emotional approach despite my rage and disappointment.

The biggest change I can see is moving back to single holding midfielder in Lunstram. Why? Lundstrum is far to immobile to play the holding midfielder on his own, that’s a fact and he has always played better alongside another sitting midfielder, with one of them holding and the other going forward when we were in attack.

We were at our best, beating the likes of Hibs away 3-0 with Lundstram and Raskin as a pair, or if not Raskin, it was Sterling in there with him.

We have reverted back to Lundstram on his own, with Raskin sitting on the bench and Sterling sacrificed as a 2nd rate LB. That has resulted in a massive hole in our midfield, the back 4 exposed and Lundstrams form dropping off a cliff.

Take tonight’s game for example, both Borna and Raskin sitting on the bench and Sterling at LB at the expense of our midfield structure. Why the hell would we do that?

There has to be something else driving that change in direction from the gaffer as the former lineup was the catalyst for the rapid change in good fortune when he came in.

Why would he give up so much tactically and structurally to sacrifice Sterling to cover LB and leave Raskin and Borna on the bench?

I do think we under estimate just how big a loss Yilmaz and Cortez has been as well.
 
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I think having to flog the likes of Dessers every game, whilst also lacking genuine wide options like Cortes and, until now, Sima has eventually taken its toll.

We were flying and confident and actually showing bottle (coming from behind at Kilmarnock, smashing Hearts, seeing out some nervy games) and then the injuries and tiredness toom hold, we stuttered and the confidence went.
 
You win and lose games in midfield.

Without someone like Sterling we have no power, no pace, no drive and no forward passes. Everything is pedestrian like and sideways or backwards. In short we are unable to control the game and are over run without the ball.

Quite what the manager is doing or seeing I have no idea.
 
Londonderry_Bear said:
Our injuries have exacerbated what the manager had already told us was a completely unfit squad and it's now caught up with us.

I honestly just think they are done and have nothing left to give
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I hope you’re wrong, but fear you are correct.
 
Its a snowball effect since we lost Yilmaz TBH.

Players are burnt out, void of ideas.

Too many players off form.

Players being shoehorned into the team.

Is Clement the answer? Im not sure now, the last 3 games have been disasters.

Im of the opinion that until we bin the majority of this squad we will never change our mentality. The players prove this every time the going gets tough.
 
Bigbluebear said:
We have no left side at the moment. Silva is never a left winger and we have nothing from left full back be in Borna or Dujon playing there.

Ridvans injury has been fairly catastrophic really.

Plus lundstram has chucked it
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Totally agree with your first couple of points, that and losing Yilmaz is massive.

On the last point, I just wonder if Lundstram is so bad now because he has lost the security of Raskin or Sterling beside him, resulting in zero midfield structure. Maybe he has chucked it, but surley the manager would know this and drop him? %^*& knows!

A lot of posters were screaming for Sterling to be moved up into midfield tonight, I actually expected that from the start. I just can understand it, Borna at LB has to be less of a negative than sacrificing Sterling to play him at LB instead given the massive impact on the midfield.
 
Ridvan going out is massive he has his faults but he can play the way manager wants

Bb can't its not his game and never had been

We are missing dio big time as he held cover ground and runners

Tbh I'd be inclined to go 3 at the back for a while to give us some pace with balogun

And with sima/matondo tav on right and sterling/jl/raskin in middle with cantwell and whoever wins the lucky draw to be striker for the day
 
The right hand side of defence, as it usually is when we collapse.

4 out of the last 6 we've conceded, as well as the 5 points dropped with them, have completely f***** our confidence and our season.
 
Jim Prideaux said:
Yilmaz injury has lead to Clement creating an imbalance in the team and overthinking certain things.
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I have never been overly impressed with Silva since he came in but the loss of Yilmaz has left him isolated on the left and he just seems completley disconnected from the rest of the team. I don’t have a clue now what he’s is doing.

I think he definitely looked better with Yilmaz behind him.

I would rather play with Borna at LB than lose the midfield structure by neutralising everything good bout Sterling by putting him at LB. I would love to hear the gaffers explanation for that.

I could even get it if he played Raskin to rebalance the midfield. I just don’t understand it.
 
No not one said:
Lundstrum has regressed so much. I don’t know if he’s burnt out or checked out. He is a big factor in setting the tempo.
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I think one leads to the other mate. I also think this was a season too far in expecting him to be the midfield engine on his own, he needs another player in there with him now. That is when he is at his best.

You are 100% right though, Rangers are at their best when Lunstram is driving forward, you can even see the way he pings hard passes into feet as a good indicator how positive the team is going to play I think.

What the hell has happened to Raskin? We have no midfield and he is left sitting on the bench. There must be a good reason for that!
 
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MartinS93 said:
The right hand side of defence, as it usually is when we collapse.

4 out of the last 6 we've conceded, as well as the 5 points dropped with them, have completely f***** our confidence and our season.
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Good point, I would need to go back and look but did we play Lumdstram on his own in midfield holding role for all 4 of those games?

I really did want the gaffer to go all in after the OF game and play Sterling at RB and move Tav forward. I at least wanted Sterling on the right of a 2 sitting midfielders. I just can’t believe we have wasted him at LB.
Maybe that’s why I’m not a coach though to be fair!
 
GazzaLegend said:
I’m trying to keep a level head now the dust has settled and understand what has brought about such a dramatic turn in fortunes over the past 5 matches.

This is not about the manager per se, he has done enough by getting us to this point to be the right man to take us into the next season and we need to back him.

I’m trying to find a tactical reason for such a dramatic change in performance. The sudden switch is every bit as dramatic as the change from bad to good when the gaffer came in.

The single biggest impact for me is the complete collapse of our midfield structure.

Back in January/February, we were playing g]some good stuff and we looked really secure at the back. One of our strengths was a high press, well coordinated and effective. We were also really good at winning the 2nd ball and winning the ball back quickly if we lost it.

I’ve given it some thought followimg tonight. Trying to take a sensble un emotional approach despite my rage and disappointment.

The biggest change I can see is moving back to single holding midfielder in Lunstram. Why? Lundstrum is far to immobile to play the holding midfielder on his own, that’s a fact and he has always played better alongside another sitting midfielder, with one of them holding and the other going forward when we were in attack.

We were at our best, beating the likes of Hibs away 3-0 with Lundstram and Raskin as a pair, or if not Raskin, it was Sterling in there with him.

We have reverted back to Lundstram on his own, with Raskin sitting on the bench and Sterling sacrificed as a 2nd rate LB. That has resulted in a massive hole in our midfield, the back 4 exposed and Lundstrams form dropping off a cliff.

Take tonight’s game for example, both Borna and Raskin sitting on the bench and Sterling at LB at the expense of our midfield structure. Why the hell would we do that?

There has to be something else driving that change in direction from the gaffer as the former lineup was the catalyst for the rapid change in good fortune when he came in.

Why would he give up so much tactically and structurally to sacrifice Sterling to cover LB and leave Raskin and Borna on the bench?

I do think we under estimate just how big a loss Yilmaz and Cortez has been as well.
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Pressure and mentality. We’ve seen this before in close title races with the usual suspects.

18/19 and 19/20 - Come back after the winter break and drop in performances we’re seeing right now, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic at the heart of it

21/22 - Bottle a 6 point lead post winter break, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic again at the heart of it

22/23 - Shit the bed in both cups against Celtic

Last few weeks, Tavernier and Goldson at the heart of the Motherwell loss and the wheels came off.

2 years without a win in a meaningful game against the scum, Tavernier and Goldson constantly at the heart of giving them the most bizarre goals you’ll see and the worst thing is, the current scum team are rank rotten.
 
LoyalRanger_72 said:
Pressure and mentality. We’ve seen this before in close title races with the usual suspects.

18/19 and 19/20 - Come back after the winter break and drop in performances we’re seeing right now, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic at the heart of it

21/22 - Bottle a 6 point lead post winter break, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic again at the heart of it

22/23 - Shit the bed in both cups against Celtic

Last few weeks, Tavernier and Goldson at the heart of the Motherwell loss and the wheels came off.

2 years without a win in a meaningful game against the scum, Tavernier and Goldson constantly at the heart of giving them the most bizarre goals you’ll see and the worst thing is, the current scum team are rank rotten.
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3 years without a meaningful win against them in the league alone!

Made the point the other day myself, 13 games against them post Gerrard with 1 meaningful win against them under Gio.

And like you say, no one has been at the heart of more of those goals conceded than Tav and Goldson. Postecoglu's celtic in particular exposed how desperately weak both Tav and Goldson are.
 
LoyalRanger_72 said:
Pressure and mentality. We’ve seen this before in close title races with the usual suspects.

18/19 and 19/20 - Come back after the winter break and drop in performances we’re seeing right now, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic at the heart of it

21/22 - Bottle a 6 point lead post winter break, Tavernier, Goldson and Barisic again at the heart of it

22/23 - Shit the bed in both cups against Celtic

Last few weeks, Tavernier and Goldson at the heart of the Motherwell loss and the wheels came off.

2 years without a win in a meaningful game against the scum, Tavernier and Goldson constantly at the heart of giving them the most bizarre goals you’ll see and the worst thing is, the current scum team are rank rotten.
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I absolutely agree with you on this mate. It’s undeniable.

I think though with this manger and the likes of Yilmaz and Cortez fit and performing, along with the other Lundstram we see in phases of a season would have been enough to mitigate that mental fragility. I think we have even so unlucky to lose both those players at this stage of the season.

That coupled with the fact they got key players back and seemed to be getting their shit in order.

I think we really need to recognise the miraculous Job the gaffer has done getting us here, bad luck has seen it collapse but we need to keep the faith with the manager. He needs to start re earning that though come the close season, and with the right backing from the board.
 
Muay Bouk said:
It's a combination of an undertalented squad out on their feet but the main issue is that our team lacks backbone and mental strength.

They are total and utter bottle merchants of the highest order and every time they NEED to win they fold like a pack of cards.

The squad needs gutted from top to bottom.
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Unfortunately there is no reason at all to disagree with any of this. I’ve held the same opinion for at least 3 seasons now.
 
I don't think there's one single factor you could point to and pinpoint. However, losing Yilmaz has thrown the entire balance of the team out of whack, and not having an adequate replacement for him has led to an already lopsided defence becoming even worse. That's impacted our ability to shore up our midfield with Sterling's athleticism because he's had to play at LB, he's tried Barisic at LB in a few games and hooked him at HT every time.

The tinkering, that was previously working for Clement, has now stopped working too. Along with the usual suspects sulking or disappearing up their own arses. Has all led to the past week. It's been a cumulative thing. It's like all the shitey stars have aligned just in time for us to make a rip-roaring arse of things.
 
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I think he wants a 6 & 8 combination in central MF and hasn't got the players to do it to a high level. Given due to injuries there's not much coming from either side and as Diomande is out he's tried Dowell and Lawrence as the 8.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
A few mentions of the importance of Yilmaz - a player we were trying to sell in January.
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I know mate, I think it’s a measure of how far Borna has fallen and a fair improvement, and a run of games from Yilmaz. I do think he was really important for this last phase of the title challenge
 
Injuries and tiredness for me plus nervousness under pressure. Dreadful passing tonight summed up by Lawrence in the last minute when he could have put Matondo through.
Cortes is a big miss, Yilmaz even bigger miss and Diomande had started well in midfield. Add trying to get players like Sima fit after injury and lack of confidence and it all adds up.
We simply have no plan B against packed defence our midfielders don’t get into the box enough and forwards not physical enough
 
MartinS93 said:
3 years without a meaningful win against them in the league alone!

Made the point the other day myself, 13 games against them post Gerrard with 1 meaningful win against them under Gio.

And like you say, no one has been at the heart of more of those goals conceded than Tav and Goldson. Postecoglu's celtic in particular exposed how desperately weak both Tav and Goldson are.
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And even Gio’s win took extra time and let’s be real, Celtic were absolutely dead on their arse that day.

Gerrard showed Celtic absolutely no respect, turned the tide back in our favour and when he left, that mentality he finally built left with him.
 
thethunderer said:
I think he wants a 6 & 8 combination in central MF and hasn't got the players to do it to a high level. Given due to injuries there's not much coming from either side and as Diomande is out he's tried Dowell and Lawrence as the 8.
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Yep, I think that’s exactly what we don’t have. All that money spent and we can’t get the basic spine of a team on the park (6 & 8) at such a pivotal moment. Utterly heartbreaking.
 
GazzaLegend said:
I absolutely agree with you on this mate. It’s undeniable.

I think though with this manger and the likes of Yilmaz and Cortez fit and performing, along with the other Lundstram we see in phases of a season would have been enough to mitigate that mental fragility. I think we have even so unlucky to lose both those players at this stage of the season.

That coupled with the fact they got key players back and seemed to be getting their shit in order.

I think we really need to recognise the miraculous Job the gaffer has done getting us here, bad luck has seen it collapse but we need to keep the faith with the manager. He needs to start re earning that though come the close season, and with the right backing from the board.
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The board absolutely have to back him and allow him to drain the swamp which is long overdue.
 
When was the last time Sterling played CM? For me Lundstram’s legs have gone because he played every minute of every game. That has been a major factor. The last game he played well was Hibs away.

Clement has also preserved with Silva and Dessers in the team together (until tonight) and it hasn’t worked. Playing Silva on the left hasn’t worked since we played in Lisbon. I can’t recall it working prior to that.

Goldson’s confidence seemed to totally collapse around the middle of February for some reason and he hasn’t recovered. I can’t remember the last time he had even a semi decent game.
 
TheGreatDane said:
When was the last time Sterling played CM? For me Lundstram’s legs have gone because he played every minute of every game. That has been a major factor. The last game he played well was Hibs away.

Clement has also preserved with Silva and Dessers in the team together (until tonight) and it hasn’t worked. Playing Silva on the left hasn’t worked since we played in Lisbon. I can’t recall it working prior to that.

Goldson’s confidence seemed to totally collapse around the middle of February for some reason and he hasn’t recovered. I can’t remember the last time he had even a semi decent game.
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I can’t remember the exact midfield structure for Hibs away, but I think we started with Lundstrum and Raskin finished with him and Sterling.

On your last point, I’ve been extremely harsh on Goldson, I think his loss in confidence is coincides with our collapse in midfield, i.e. the level of protection in front of him. I can even see it in Jack B’s game recently.

Thats not good enough though, a senior player, vice captain and one of the highest paid players should be able to deal with that. That’s why I think we will never be anything but occasional winners with Goldson in the team sadly.
 
There was 5 up front at times tonight, Roofe was having to come back in to midfield.
What actual position does Lawrence play?
 
I think it’s multiple things.

Dressing room leaders who haven’t been able to handle it when the pressure is on and their heads drop.

Injuries causing us to play players who have one eye on the door or are just piss poor squad players.

Players like Goldson and Tav becoming some mythical jenga pieces that managers fear of even dropping in fear of it collapsing the rest of the squad.

The manager constantly tinkering to try and plug the gaps to fix it.
 
Kit_ said:
I think it’s multiple things.

Dressing room leaders who haven’t been able to handle it when the pressure is on and their heads drop.

Injuries causing us to play players who have one eye on the door or are just piss poor squad players.

Players like Goldson and Tav becoming some mythical jenga pieces that managers fear of even dropping in fear of it collapsing the rest of the squad.

The manager constantly tinkering to try and plug the gaps to fix it.
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I said this in another thread, but I'm hard-pressed to come up with legitimate and lasting solutions that fix this current problem. Sterling at right back maybe fixes the Tav thing, but longer term leaves us short in midfield and at Left back. Dropping Goldson to play Balogun or Davies, wouldn't settle the defence, imo.
 
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