What would you consider to be a satisfactory achievement for Big Phil in his first season?

wee bud's pit boots said:
From the position Beale had us in, the manager has worked wonders but my patience will be sorely tested if we lost this league due to losing to Motherwell at home and Ross County.

I don't want to hear any more 'moral victory' p1sh either. There's nothing victorious about gifting your title rivals a goal within 30 seconds of kick off.

Unlike his captain, I get the feeling with the manger, lessons will be learned.

My overall feeling is, if we lose this league, then despite all the good the manager has done, it will be tinged with a huge dollop of disappointment.

Harsh? Very possibly, but there you go.
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In fairness, I think he meant something along lines of “victory for the morale of the team” as opposed to “moral victory”

It’s his third or fourth language.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
To have the chance to really put our foots on Celtic’s throat and go 5 points clear with a home win with no away fans, to then being a point behind (assuming we win tonight) is the flip side of that.

What a desperate state of affairs to be claiming ‘massive achievements’ when Celtic are giving away points like sweeties to Killie, Hearts and others.
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That is exactly what the manager inherited.
 
If I was the manager I’d pose that question to the squad

Given where we were in the league before he arrived the league looked lost but hard work and effort from the players turned our form around and we went on a great run of winning games to claw ourselves back into contention

Defeats to Motherwell and County have put a spanner in our title aspirations

I’d ask the squad with 6 games to go what would they feel is a satisfactory achievement

Do they want an outstanding season and do they have the heart and desire to go out and win these 6 league games?

We need to push this group and if they don’t perform they can have no excuses if the manager sits some of them down and tells them we are looking to replace them and moving forward they will be second choice if we fail

The recent losses have really dented our chances of winning the league but it’s still in our own hands if the team can rally and win the 6 we need to secure the title

Over to the players and the manager to get the wins we need starting tonight
 
A treble and becoming a club legend achieved in less than a season in charge after inheriting a sinking ship would be an excellent achievement. At present, as we are still close to achieving this, nothing less will do for me just now.Im not about to conceed the league nor SC.
Ill wait for a final appraisal of the season after the dust settles before deciding what was/is satisfactory.
 
Albus said:
1 point behind after tonight, after tonight absolutely not. You had it over in September and October too, it wasn't then either and isn't now.

Keep pushing the ultra negative side in the hole you'll get it right eventually
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You say negative. I say realistic.

All I would advise is not to get your hopes up pal.

This team haven't got it in them - as we have seen and are still seeing.
 
blueaway said:
Why you making up your own questions? The thread was about him coming in at the mid season point (when he was 7 points behind) and asking what we would have viewed as achievement.
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I didn’t ask a question. I said if we regard Celtic dropping points left right and centre, allowing us to regain a lead and then chucking it again is classed as a ‘massive achievement’ then we’re in bother.
 
julian candy said:
That is exactly what the manager inherited.
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It was a squad devoid of confidence and belief which he instilled, but let’s have it right, he’s not operating with zero budget and 11 planks of wood each week. The squad has had a lot of money spent on it and it’s the managers job to get the most out of them.

We can’t have it both ways. Either the squad is capable and just needed the right man in charge, or we shouldn’t be expecting anything from them because of how bad they are.

The players, following the managers leadership, got into a good position. Regardless of what he inherited, the position we were in 10 days ago was that a win at home v Celtic with no away support would’ve taken us 5 points clear.

Now we need to win a game in hand to possibly maybe have a chance of winning all our games to win the title. It’s verging on a capitulation.

None of that has anything to do with Beale losing to Aberdeen. That damage was repaired and made good.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
It was a squad devoid of confidence and belief which he instilled, but let’s have it right, he’s not operating with zero budget and 11 planks of wood each week. The squad has had a lot of money spent on it and it’s the managers job to get the most out of them.

We can’t have it both ways. Either the squad is capable and just needed the right man in charge, or we shouldn’t be expecting anything from them because of how bad they are.

The players, following the managers leadership, got into a good position. Regardless of what he inherited, the position we were in 10 days ago was that a win at home v Celtic with no away support would’ve taken us 5 points clear.

Now we need to win a game in hand to possibly maybe have a chance of winning all our games to win the title. It’s verging on a capitulation.

None of that has anything to do with Beale losing to Aberdeen. That damage was repaired and made good.
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I think that's exactly where most people are with this squad, are they not?

And yes, he absolutely inherited a shambles. A leaderless mess, going absolutely nowhere. It wasn't just a defeat to Aberdeen either.

Talk of capitulations is melodramatic nonsense to be frank. You're making out like we're needing snookers.
 
His achievement this season is already satisfactory regardless of what happens between now and the end of May.

He has won us a cup and put us into a genuine title challenge. I don’t think Beale was getting the cup and he certainly wasn’t challenging for the title.

Clement inherited a mess and has done very well with it.

Next season is where he will be judged.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
It was a squad devoid of confidence and belief which he instilled, but let’s have it right, he’s not operating with zero budget and 11 planks of wood each week. The squad has had a lot of money spent on it and it’s the managers job to get the most out of them.

We can’t have it both ways. Either the squad is capable and just needed the right man in charge, or we shouldn’t be expecting anything from them because of how bad they are.

The players, following the managers leadership, got into a good position. Regardless of what he inherited, the position we were in 10 days ago was that a win at home v Celtic with no away support would’ve taken us 5 points clear.

Now we need to win a game in hand to possibly maybe have a chance of winning all our games to win the title. It’s verging on a capitulation.

None of that has anything to do with Beale losing to Aberdeen. That damage was repaired and made good.
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How much has Clement spent and how much are players signed by incompetent Managers such as Beale?
 
julian candy said:
I think that's exactly where most people are with this squad, are they not?

And yes, he absolutely inherited a shambles. A leaderless mess, going absolutely nowhere. It wasn't just a defeat to Aberdeen either.

Talk of capitulations is melodramatic nonsense to be frank. You're making out like we're needing snookers.
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So the squads finished? If so, then surely they shouldn’t be completing a treble.

My view is that we have a lot of highly paid capable players who should be beating Ross County - regardless. That was our first loss to them in our history.

It was a leaderless mess, and that’s why we brought in a new leader.

To go from being ahead with a home old firm game to needing to win a game in hand to cut the gap is a capitulation IMO. It certainly will be if we don’t win the league.

Needing a win at Parkhead is virtually a snooker for us, considering our recent performances vs them and at that place.
 
Albus said:
How much has Clement spent and how much are players signed by incompetent Managers such as Beale?
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That’s pretty irrelevant. He’s the man in charge and will take the credit for any success.

Are you saying this squad is incapable of beating Motherwell and Ross County?
 
BigN said:
What do you think would constitute a satisfactory outcome to the season given that our new manager took over the reigns mid season: 1 Cup, 2 Cups, 1 Cup and League, Treble?
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He’s done better than could realistically have been expected when he came in.

League cup.

Topped group in Europe

Closed the gap with Them. Not his fault the players have a mentality issue.

Cup semi.

If we don’t win the league but can get a win over them somehow - league or cup final - he will set himself up very well for next season.

Potential to emulate McLeish.
 
Cooper's left peg said:
You don't think out title chances are hanging by a thread ?? Really??

4 points behind, 1 game in hand, a trip to the Piggery to come, worse goal difference and the absolute state of our team at the moment from back to front.

Fantasy stuff.
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The title is still in our hands, if it’s becomes not in our hands then it’s hanging on by a thread

Attitudes such as yours aren’t welcome at Rangers.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Betis was a terrific result. It became a necessity, though, because we couldn’t beat Aris at home.

We’re in a title race because of Celtic’s failings - we’ve taken 1pt from 6 under Clement. A Postecoglou team would be out of sight.

We have a poor squad hindered by injuries and yet a treble is a possibility. But the team has reverted to type and the manager has failed to address that.

A mixed bag, to be honest.
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A Postecoglue team would be out of sight because of Beale's failings in the first few weeks of the season. Even though Celtic have been failing as you put it we still needed to win games which we have.

No sane Rangers fan at the time would think we'd be anywhere close to a league title in April.

I agree that the scar tissue from previous seasons is now beginning to bite but that's something Clement hasn't been able to fix because of the timing of his appointment. The summer will be the judge of that.
 
julian candy said:
I think that's exactly where most people are with this squad, are they not?

And yes, he absolutely inherited a shambles. A leaderless mess, going absolutely nowhere. It wasn't just a defeat to Aberdeen either.

Talk of capitulations is melodramatic nonsense to be frank. You're making out like we're needing snookers.
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I've been in agreement with you on this thread, but the fixture at the scum hut is a snooker. Then we need to factor in the refs and VAR, when it comes to getting decisions against that mob.

Four out of the last five games against us (and the one at the end of last season with no controversy didn't matter) and the filth getting major decisions their way is not a coincidence.

We've went from having the breathing space of even allowing for a defeat at the scum hut to it now being a must win.
 
Think some of the responses in here are mental and in complete bad faith with the revisionism against him just because of the last two fixtures.

He's done extraordinarily well to win a cup, drag us into a title race and be in with a shout of another cup. All after inheriting a squad full of garbage, miles behind in the league and no money to spend.

It's been one of our better seasons domestically for a long time. When was the last time we managed to be in touching distance of a treble? 2008/09 probably?

He's been let down in the last couple of games by the same players who have been letting us down for years and there's posters on here that post like they could turn on Clement at any second. Give yourselves a shake.
 
Brick_Top said:
If you’d said to any of us in October when he took over that he’d win the one or two cups, get us in a title race, and top the Europa group, you’d have thought it was an incredible turnaround from the mess we were in.

Unfortunately he’s a victim of his own success to some degree, and having got us 2 points in front in the league, we’ll all now be massively disappointed if we don’t win it.

And if we don’t win the league I don’t think we pick ourselves up to win the SC either, so it’s likely we just finish with the LC. That will feel disappointing considering where we were a few weeks ago.
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If he wins a cup and turns us from hopeless under Beale to running the scum close for the title, I would think it's harsh if he is sacked. He has improved players quickly and had a good transfer window. I think he is the right guy for next season.

And what kind of manager would accept the job if we sacked Clement after this season even if the result is one cup and second.
 
Blaew said:
Think some of the responses in here are mental and in complete bad faith with the revisionism against him just because of the last two fixtures.

He's done extraordinarily well to win a cup, drag us into a title race and be in with a shout of another cup. All after inheriting a squad full of garbage, miles behind in the league and no money to spend.

It's been one of our better seasons domestically for a long time. When was the last time we managed to be in touching distance of a treble? 2008/09 probably?

He's been let down in the last couple of games by the same players who have been letting us down for years and there's posters on here that post like they could turn on Clement at any second. Give yourselves a shake.
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Could you give me an example on this thread, that in your opinion is a mental post against the manager?
 
When he took over we were 7 behind, looked as though Europe was failing, we all expected to be put out of the league cup as well. People forget how utterly terrible and broken we were when he came in. Most of us just wanted him to bed in with the club, bleed in some of the youngsters and determine who he’s taking forward with him to start again next season.

Finishing top of the Europa group, league cup, potentially a Scottish cup and 1 point behind going into the split (if we win tonight), I genuinely don’t believe 1 single supporter could’ve believed this is where we are when he took over, not one.

It’ll be brutal not winning the league considering how far he’s turned us around, but I would still have 1000% faith in him considering what he’s done for us so far. A competent striker and we would’ve been running away with the league already after being 7 behind. The league cup and the league would be beyond all expectations from when he came in. The two cups would be welcome but a kick in the balls because we really could’ve had the league (and we still might). 1 cup would be disappointing.
 
JC85 said:
The time to ask this question was when he took over.

And almost universally the answer would've been "close the gap to Celtic and try to win a cup".

He's done it and more. He's already into the "exceeded expectations" realm with this squad.
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It’s sort of not the way it works though mate to be fair. Context is everything and the way we’ve dropped points in this run in can’t be ignored (and it’s been a combination of the usual shite from these players AND strange calls from the manager).
 
What we thought of as success last October has no bearing now. The fact is we should be 5 points ahead, but thanks to 2 abominations against Motherwell and Ross County we're now back at the "but look at how far behind we were when he took over".
This title should have been won. If it still does become 56, then of course we will be celebrating a wonderful success. But if we finish second, it is failure. No dressing it up any other way.
 
I'd be satisfied with League & Cup double / last 16 Europa. I'll be disappointed with anything less.

May be harsh considering what he walked in to, but he had us in a winning position.
 
JC85 said:
The time to ask this question was when he took over.

And almost universally the answer would've been "close the gap to Celtic and try to win a cup".

He's done it and more. He's already into the "exceeded expectations" realm with this squad.
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This
 
Chillybear said:
If he wins a cup and turns us from hopeless under Beale to running the scum close for the title, I would think it's harsh if he is sacked. He has improved players quickly and had a good transfer window. I think he is the right guy for next season.

And what kind of manager would accept the job if we sacked Clement after this season even if the result is one cup and second.
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There is no way he should be sacked. It certainly isn't in my thoughts.

He's done wonders for us. I love the way he commands his technical area, engages with the players and nips the ear of the 4th corrupt c--t. But he must have a semblance of an idea by now off who he can trust and who he can't? I'd have Lowry in tonight before Lawrence.

He's been unlucky with some of the injuries (which Rangers manager hasn't?)

However, if we do lose this league, it's been a massive opportunity wasted.
 
JC85 said:
The time to ask this question was when he took over.

And almost universally the answer would've been "close the gap to Celtic and try to win a cup".

He's done it and more. He's already into the "exceeded expectations" realm with this squad.
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This this and this again.
Add in a decent Euro run and folk would have been reasonably ok with it, as much as losing the league to that lot can be.
But now …because we are / were so close it’s going to seem like a disaster if we only win one cup.
 
joseph said:
Winning 2 cups is progress considering the state we were in when he took charge - many had the league over in September and the rest of the season was about stability and rebuilding- nothing has changed
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I agree nothing has changed and in my opinion the same mistakes other managers have made is by not getting rid of the so called senior players who have been a major part of our problem,if he doesn't face up to the fact that the same players will never really do it when the chips are down will cost him his job next season,because we have perennial losers in our squad have needed chased for seasons.
 
dh1963 said:
What we thought of as success last October has no bearing now. The fact is we should be 5 points ahead, but thanks to 2 abominations against Motherwell and Ross County we're now back at the "but look at how far behind we were when he took over".
This title should have been won. If it still does become 56, then of course we will be celebrating a wonderful success. But if we finish second, it is failure. No dressing it up any other way.
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Exactly where I'm at also.

We were been handed a golden opportunity to do something special this season.

The odds are against us getting an opportunity like this again any time soon considering the magnitude of the finances involved for winning this league and getting straight into the CL.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
There is no way he should be sacked. It certainly isn't in my thoughts.

He's done wonders for us. I love the way he commands his technical area, engages with the players and nips the ear of the 4th corrupt c--t. But he must have a semblance of an idea by now off who he can trust and who he can't? I'd have Lowry in tonight before Lawrence.

He's been unlucky with some of the injuries (which Rangers manager hasn't?)

However, if we do lose this league, it's been a massive opportunity wasted.
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It's not really him that's cost us the league if we don't win it ,the ones to blames are our slow cumbersome defenders who have been letting us down for seasons,but it will be down to him if he doesn't weed them out.
 
C-Train_Loyal said:
The title is still in our hands, if it’s becomes not in our hands then it’s hanging on by a thread

Attitudes such as yours aren’t welcome at Rangers.
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Absolutely.

If we win all remaining games, we win the league, it's in our hands. We're not relying on favours from anyone, it's in our hands, we are after tonight 1 point behind.
 
Look at where we were......absolutely not a hope in hell were we winning a title..... we then pull it back and some deemed us as favourites

Said it for the last 2 seasons, you can't make an omelette with no eggs....the squad at Clements disposal isn't good enough for a title charge.

You won't win a league without a proven goalscorer, why we didn't go balls out for Shankland in January is beyond me.
 
RangersLad1983 said:
It's not really him that's cost us the league if we don't win it ,the ones to blames are our slow cumbersome defenders who have been letting us down for seasons,but it will be down to him if he doesn't weed them out.
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Well he needs to get rid of them, because if he doesn't, they'll get rid of him.

It has to be the End of the Pier Show for the regular three amigos in defence.

As ever Tav is the paradox. He offers so little in defence and so much in offence.

No one wanted Goldson on a free last season. There's your red flag right there.

Borna? I don't think we ever saw that bandaged heided player that marauded against us in Osiek and he's certainly slowed the game (his?) game down by a great many degrees.
 
Winning the league is slipping away so 2 cups Will need to to do also needs to get the oldfirm win monkey of his back before the start of next season
 
MosesMcNeil99 said:
It would be hard to be disappointed with the 2 cups from where we were but that should be the bare minimum now.

To have got to the position we were in however, it isn’t unfair to regard losing the league (if we do) as a failure.
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It absolutely is unfair to class it as a failure. Unfair to label the boss in that way anyway. The players have had that tag for what feels like years anyway so it's probably water off a ducks back for them to hear that again but the boss is a different tale because he inherited a complete shitshow and in less than a season and one less than productive transfer window he's transformed a dire situation to one with optimism and hope. And delivered a trophy as the bare minimum. He's got us hoping again.

That being said, I'd want to finish this season with 2 trophies now even if it is just the 2 cups rather than the title. That's a fucking good start to his reign. Then we'll see more of what he's got to offer as Rangers manager if he's properly backed in the summer.

I think there's a lot of sulking going on currently because of where we were before last weeks OF, which I get...but bigger picture perspective is needed to assess the guys overall first season in charge. How it started, the journey we went on and how it ended up. Worst case scenario is 1 cup. We didn't even believe that was happening under Beale. So I'd say relax on throwing the failure word about until he's actually had a proper run at a full season with the club.
 
Blaew said:
Think some of the responses in here are mental and in complete bad faith with the revisionism against him just because of the last two fixtures.

He's done extraordinarily well to win a cup, drag us into a title race and be in with a shout of another cup. All after inheriting a squad full of garbage, miles behind in the league and no money to spend.

It's been one of our better seasons domestically for a long time. When was the last time we managed to be in touching distance of a treble? 2008/09 probably?

He's been let down in the last couple of games by the same players who have been letting us down for years and there's posters on here that post like they could turn on Clement at any second. Give yourselves a shake.
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How can you say no money to spend when we literally brought in 3 players in January, one with an obligation to buy for £4.5m?

If he wasn’t allowed to change the squad at all then fair enough, but we arguably did more business in and out than any other side in the UK in January.
 
Given where we were when he came in this season is already a qualified success. Winning a cup , topping Euro group and still in SC and league going into final stretch. None of which I thought possible when he joined.
 
MancGer86 said:
It absolutely is unfair to class it as a failure. Unfair to label the boss in that way anyway. The players have had that tag for what feels like years anyway so it's probably water off a ducks back for them to hear that again but the boss is a different tale because he inherited a complete shitshow and in less than a season and one less than productive transfer window he's transformed a dire situation to one with optimism and hope. And delivered a trophy as the bare minimum. He's got us hoping again.

That being said, I'd want to finish this season with 2 trophies now even if it is just the 2 cups rather than the title. That's a fucking good start to his reign. Then we'll see more of what he's got to offer as Rangers manager if he's properly backed in the summer.

I think there's a lot of sulking going on currently because of where we were before last weeks OF, which I get...but bigger picture perspective is needed to assess the guys overall first season in charge. How it started, the journey we went on and how it ended up. Worst case scenario is 1 cup. We didn't even believe that was happening under Beale. So I'd say relax on throwing the failure word about until he's actually had a proper run at a full season with the club.
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The financial implications of them getting a third and last automatic entry into the CL changes the scenario next season very significantly.

That's the one and only big picture.

To be so close and then take zero points out of six against Motherwell and Ross County, which have put us in the driving seat is the footballing equivalent of suicide.

With your nom de plume, I'll wager even Ian Curtis would have been aghast at this folly.
 
This probably doesn’t come across well but I don’t give a sh*t about cups.

They’re just nice additions to have on top of a league title.

I’d still be disappointed with a cup double.
 
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