SaulBearenson
Well-Known Member
One cup is satisfactory.
Anything else is a bonus.
Anything else is a bonus.
The time to ask this question was when he took over.
And almost universally the answer would've been "close the gap to Celtic and try to win a cup".
He's done it and more. He's already into the "exceeded expectations" realm with this squad.
A Postecoglue team would be out of sight because of Beale's failings in the first few weeks of the season. Even though Celtic have been failing as you put it we still needed to win games which we have.
No sane Rangers fan at the time would think we'd be anywhere close to a league title in April.
I agree that the scar tissue from previous seasons is now beginning to bite but that's something Clement hasn't been able to fix because of the timing of his appointment. The summer will be the judge of that.
Agree with all of thatClement hasn’t really done more than Beale last season in terms of the league. They came in at a similar time and there's not much between them when it comes to results/performances.
The difference is that our rival has dropped more points. That's made it a title race.
There's an obvious limit to this squad. But the hope/expectation is that a new manager can get more out of the players than the previous one.
I look forward to a Clement/Koppen summer.
I get where you're coming from about the cups (obviously it's nice to win them)This probably doesn’t come across well but I don’t give a sh*t about cups.
They’re just nice additions to have on top of a league title.
I’d still be disappointed with a cup double.
Can’t agree!
It was a fantastic achievement to get us back in the race never mind bookies favourites for a few weeks! Topping our Europa League group another huge achievement. We were a dodgy penalty away from knocking out Benfica
Satisfactory is winning a cup and another cup final. Pushing them all the way in the league is a bonus from where we were.
We are still in the running for a treble post split. Beale left an utter shambles behind him and what the current manager has achieved is more than just satisfactory
I’d take the two cups at this point. I don’t trust them to get it though
The league was never on when McLeish took over.He’s done better than could realistically have been expected when he came in.
League cup.
Topped group in Europe
Closed the gap with Them. Not his fault the players have a mentality issue.
Cup semi.
If we don’t win the league but can get a win over them somehow - league or cup final - he will set himself up very well for next season.
Potential to emulate McLeish.
Shows how low the bar of expectation has fell amongst a section of our support.One cup is satisfactory.
Anything else is a bonus.
The financial implications of them getting a third and last automatic entry into the CL changes the scenario next season very significantly.
That's the one and only big picture.
To be so close and then take zero points out of six against Motherwell and Ross County, which have put us in the driving seat is the footballing equivalent of suicide.
With your nom de plume, I'll wager even Ian Curtis would have been aghast at this folly.
The SaulBearenson section of the support?Shows how low the bar of expectation has fell amongst a section of our support.
I think that’s exactly the point. The goal posts have moved because of where we ended up - naturally it will be judged as a failure in isolation if we lose the league from being ahead.It absolutely is unfair to class it as a failure. Unfair to label the boss in that way anyway. The players have had that tag for what feels like years anyway so it's probably water off a ducks back for them to hear that again but the boss is a different tale because he inherited a complete shitshow and in less than a season and one less than productive transfer window he's transformed a dire situation to one with optimism and hope. And delivered a trophy as the bare minimum. He's got us hoping again.
That being said, I'd want to finish this season with 2 trophies now even if it is just the 2 cups rather than the title. That's a fucking good start to his reign. Then we'll see more of what he's got to offer as Rangers manager if he's properly backed in the summer.
I think there's a lot of sulking going on currently because of where we were before last weeks OF, which I get...but bigger picture perspective is needed to assess the guys overall first season in charge. How it started, the journey we went on and how it ended up. Worst case scenario is 1 cup. We didn't even believe that was happening under Beale. So I'd say relax on throwing the failure word about until he's actually had a proper run at a full season with the club.
I've no idea what that last sentence even means.
It seems Rangers are the only club in world football who can't be allowed to lose a single game of football without being written off as serial losers failures etc. Its mental the overreaction.
Get the point about champs lge qualification and revenue but this squad shouldn't be anywhere near it anyway after how they started. Granted its galling to get so close and then fall near the end (by the way its not even over yet) but I'm not branding the manager a failure if it doesn't quite happen for him this season. If you do then I think your expectations with this manager have been too high given the dross he's inherited. Probably a victim of his own success in that sense because a long unbeaten run had us all believing. But the squad is shit. You can only polish a terd so much.
I think that’s exactly the point. The goal posts have moved because of where we ended up - naturally it will be judged as a failure in isolation if we lose the league from being ahead.
Exactly. We still have better players than these sides, by miles.I'd expect that if we needed 4 points from Dundee and Ross county to go top of the league that he'd have exceeded that total.
Especially over 6 months into the job.
Progress is the most frustrating word when it comes to Rangers. The time for progress finished when we won a title - anything less than a title is a total failure.Really depends how much of a glass half empty/half full kind of fan you are tbh and how bought in on the PC journey you are. Some people just can't jump on the failure train quickly enough whereas if you take a step back its clear to see the boss has worked wonders with piss poor resources for us to even be anywhere near the position we're in in the first place.
There's no abject failure here for me. Even if we lose the league now we're likely to finish a lot closer to them than we have since we last won the league. So it's progress.
Hey, one summer we'll get this rebuild right!It's not about losing one game. It's about continuing disappointment and humiliations, year on year from perenniel failures.
In many ways Clement has been a victim of his own success. The fact he dragged us back into the title race and gave us a very real chance of winning it threatens to make the fallout for failing to do so far less forgiving.The time to ask this question was when he took over.
And almost universally the answer would've been "close the gap to Celtic and try to win a cup".
He's done it and more. He's already into the "exceeded expectations" realm with this squad.
Progress is the most frustrating word when it comes to Rangers. The time for progress finished when we won a title - anything less than a title is a total failure.
For Clement specifically no one is doubting he’s done an excellent job closing that gap, but it’s a failure to lose it from the position we were in, for players and manager. Both can be true.
I generally agree the squad is fragile mentally but last time we won the Scottish Cup we done so just a few days after one of the most disappointing nights in the clubs history.If we get through to the final but lose the title our already psychologically damaged squad will go into the final pysochologically damaged.
And we know how great the team resolve is.
This for me. Hes done great with the dross he inherited7 points behind when he came in mid October - to have the league in our hands with 6 games to go is already a massive achievement not to mention a League Cup in the bag.
I generally agree the squad is fragile mentally but last time we won the Scottish Cup we done so just a few days after one of the most disappointing nights in the clubs history.
Even if we lose the league now we're likely to finish a lot closer to them than we have since we last won the league. So it's progress.
Where is the progress?
We won’t beat last season’s pts total and Clement has already lost more games than Beale. In addition, we’ve failed to beat Celtic.
Beyond stats, what in our performances and general play suggests “progress”?
I’m a Clement fan and I look forward to him (hopefully) gutting this squad in the Summer.
I’m a little reluctant, though, to heap too much praise when the team is showing the same deficiencies we saw under previous managers.
Being closer to them in points at this stage of the season and having a trophy in the bag already in a nutshell. That's your progress basically. It might not seem like much now but given what was likely in the middle of October its a start and a decent base for PC to build on for next season.
If you want to bring squad development into it then that's pretty much a non starter because this squad will probably be ripped to bits in the summer anyway and hopefully some genuine Clement type players will be brought in to help fulfil the style of play he wants to see going forward. PC has just had to work with what's here and he's done very well. Yes it's tailed off a bit lately which is disappointing, and probably fresh in fans minds when saying this season is an out and out fail that we haven't won the league or beaten Celtic. The squad has regressed significantly since we last won the league and we haven't beaten celtic in a meaningful game since the Cup semi a few years ago. So to act like it's an expectation to beat a side we haven't beaten for years is above our station given where we are with the current squad. Both OFs with Clement in charge have been extremely close even with supposed poor selections from the manager. A far cry from the 4-0 pasting we were taking last year against the same side. The team is showing the same deficiencies because there are players that have been here for years making the same mistakes over and over. Too deep rooted for the manager to suddenly eradicate overnight. Which is why he's done tremendously well to drag us where he has.
If you want to see no title as a fail, use that against the players. Not the manager. For me he gets a pass given what he's working with this season. The time to pass judgement will be next season onwards.
Did you somehow miss where we were when Clement took over? We were winning nothing.Shows how low the bar of expectation has fell amongst a section of our support.
2 cupsWhat do you think would constitute a satisfactory outcome to the season given that our new manager took over the reigns mid season: 1 Cup, 2 Cups, 1 Cup and League, Treble?