Why do our managers seem incapable of ditching the leadership group

JW1988 said:
So if those 3 are at the heart of it, what the %^*& have the other 8 been doing?
It’s a team game. That included the manager as well. They all failed again. Not just 3 players.
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That's a fair point but if the same things keep happening you need to look at the people who are always involved.

Different manager, different squad but same patterns in big games and same players making mistakes.
 
sammy1872 said:
If we can see it why cant gio, beale or clement (so far) are they niave to the fact they get managers the sack, do they believe they arnt the issue or if they are they can fix them. Is it simply the problem our best players are also our most mentally weak players. It doesnt appear that bar lundstrum whos out of contract clement wants any to leave. Even lundstrum if a deal could be agreed you suspect he would keep him
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He dropped Goldson a couple of weeks ago, his replacement got injured.

We could try Sterling at RB but he’s needed to fill about 4 other positions.

Lundstram, we could drop him for Jack but he’s injured.

Borna, we could replace him with a Yilmaz but he’s always injured.

Add Sima, Cortes, Danilo, Souttar, Matondo and we have collective sh*t-show of a season.
 
Coisty9 said:
Its quite simple really. Clement gets rid of them or they'll get rid of him. He has to be absolutely ruthless in the Summer and gut the place. We can't go another season with the same charlatans and impostors delivering the same old pish.
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If only it were as simple as that?
 
TheBridgeLoyal said:
Who’s worse than lundstram today ?

Who was worse than Tav in the last old firm game ?

Who’s been worse than Goldson this whole season ?
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Goldson and Balogun went something like 8 or 9 games without conceding a goal.

I’m talking about on the whole not one off games.
Our problem isn’t 3 players. Our problem is for 3 years our recruitment has been a shambles. We’ve not upgraded any player. Not a single one.
So we’ve went from 55 and literally every window we’ve gotten worse.

We can whine about x,y or z player being pish. We can whine about referees, about managers not having a plan b. But the crux of the issue is for 3 years we’ve steadily gotten worse, our players that are here are on the way down in their careers (Tavernier, Goldson, Lundstram, Barisic) and we’ve not replaced them with better players or replaced those players we’ve lost (Kent, Morelos, Aribo, Kamara, Davis, Arfield, Helander etc) with anywhere near acceptable quality either.
 
JW1988 said:
But those common denominators are surrounded by generally worse players. That’s the issue at the core.
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One of the common denominator's let a cross come in and the other side footed it into his own net then got went off.

The decisive moments.
 
Coisty9 said:
They all have to go mate. There can be no sentiment afforded to any of them. Too many times this group has come up short when it really, REALLY, matters. This group of players make a handsome living out of OUR club while delivering %^*& all. It's a trend that needs to be bucked.
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I'd keep sterling diomande ridvan ... Butland may need to be sold to reinvest
 
JW1988 said:
That doesn’t even begin to address the issue I raised.
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You said they were surrounded by worse players which might be true but it was their fault we lost today as they cost the goal and one got sent off.

If we had better players we would still concede awful goals if those 3 are in the team against them.
 
55&Beautiful said:
I'd keep sterling diomande ridvan ... Butland may need to be sold to reinvest
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I was perhaps scattergun in my post mate. There are players worth holding on to but,for the most part,the core group needs ripped up. Tav,Goldson,Lundstram, Barisic,Wright, Roofe...and more...need to be gone. Clement must act,and act decisively, otherwise he'll be out of a job.
 
Coisty9 said:
Its quite simple really. Clement gets rid of them or they'll get rid of him. He has to be absolutely ruthless in the Summer and gut the place. We can't go another season with the same charlatans and impostors delivering the same old pish.
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And I thought he would be.
But so far he has been overly reliant on them.

I will support Big Phil to make a big summer overhaul based on the impression he made after he was appointed.
But recent management (of players), team selections (why would any decent manager ever play Scott Wright after countless chances??), tactics really don’t bode well.

I wonder if something happened between the squad and leadership group (again).
Why?
Week after week when we were on a winning roll Big Phil was constantly mentioning them and building up their role and the rapport with the support.
In recent weeks… none of that. It has vanished.
Maybe over interpreting but makes me thing something changed behind the scenes… anyone else thought this?
 
We continually shoot ourselves in the foot.
Lundstram og and sent off today.
Balogun sent off there in January.
Sima’s schoolboy header at their corner in January.
Giving away a freak goal in the first 30 seconds at Ibrox a few weeks ago.
Goldson’s header to let them score on the stroke of half time in September.
Countless errors and cheap goals where they don’t need to work hard to score.
The manager needs to get to the core of the weakness that causes brain fart after brain fart.
As an aside, I know the manager had some kind words to say about Lundstram after the match. Secretly, I think he’ll be glad to see the back of him, and I don’t think he’ll play for us again.
 
This isn't complicated but with the odd exception we've sold on they've been our best players.

Lundstrum despite today and a drop off was probably the main reason we went on the run that put us in contention.
It's not popular because so many of our support live in the instant.
 
RangerInCanada said:
And I thought he would be.
But so far he has been overly reliant on them.

I will support Big Phil to make a big summer overhaul based on the impression he made after he was appointed.
But recent management (of players), team selections (why would any decent manager ever play Scott Wright after countless chances??), tactics really don’t bode well.

I wonder if something happened between the squad and leadership group (again).
Why?
Week after week when we were on a winning roll Big Phil was constantly mentioning them and building up their role and the rapport with the support.
In recent weeks… none of that. It has vanished.
Maybe over interpreting but makes me thing something changed behind the scenes… anyone else thought this?
Click to expand...

People that's looking for stuff that's not there....he was trying to build momentum and get the support behind the team...he's not daft he knows that has turned.
 
RangerInCanada said:
And I thought he would be.
But so far he has been overly reliant on them.

I will support Big Phil to make a big summer overhaul based on the impression he made after he was appointed.
But recent management (of players), team selections (why would any decent manager ever play Scott Wright after countless chances??), tactics really don’t bode well.

I wonder if something happened between the squad and leadership group (again).
Why?
Week after week when we were on a winning roll Big Phil was constantly mentioning them and building up their role and the rapport with the support.
In recent weeks… none of that. It has vanished.
Maybe over interpreting but makes me thing something changed behind the scenes… anyone else thought this?
Click to expand...
He had no option but rely on them mate. But,make no mistake, if he doesn't recognise that relying on this group will get him the sack,he deserves everything coming his way. This Summer will undoubtedly prove to be a watershed moment in Clement's reign. And neither he,nor the club,can afford to get it wrong.
 
We genuinely haven't got a summer transfer window right since the 55 season.

Tav should no longer be starting rb, if not moved on then he should be a rotation option
 
Once the Walter statue is in place not far from Greigs there are two symbols of our club that were true leaders, one off the park one on, our players might want to do a bit of googling to realise what these men mean to us.
 
RFC56 said:
This leadership group shit does my tits in, the fault is all down to the recruitment team for recruiting shite players. That’s the main fault as to why we’re are shite. We’ve got a shite midfield, shite attack and we are shit in the wing position.
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you forgot shit defence with right and left back who cant defend worth a toss
 
JW1988 said:
Do we?
Why’s he not playing RB then?

If he was better why wouldn’t a manager play him?
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Why does he play other players like goldson lundstram you actually think Tav is a better player than Sterling away you go and he’s been playing every other position because of injuries that shows the manager trusts him
 
I genuinely think anyone with a diffetent take supports players and not the club

They've got to go and I don't care that no one will want them. Find a way.

Look at Butland and Sterling today.

That's what's needed.
 
Sick of hearing this nonsense constantly on here. Lundstram was a disaster today but Tavernier was one of our better players. Goldson didn’t play. There is a lot more to talk about than the so called “leadership group”.
 
Coisty9 said:
It absolutely is as simple as that. It may mean short term pain but the alternative is just as bad. We cannot go on with the same almost, nearly, do better next time attitude.
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It would be simply as that if you were just to free every player but we know we cannot do that!

So it really is not as simple as that Coisty9 there are a number of factors when change is needed!

Put up for sale you need other teams to want for a start then there is the fee then there is what the player wants? Everything has to fall in place!

Everything then falls to replacements and transfer kitty and same scenario regarding do they want to come, are they available, personal contracts etc etc

We have already done the mass change rounds and they rarely work. It's complete chaos and hurts more and takes even longer to recover and that wasn't short pain then and won't be now!

Every season a team should try to bring in 2-3 quality players and try to offload surplus to requirements way it is and the right way to gradually change when rebuilding which is a constant!

You mention attitude if the right players come in they will breed attitude on to others one would hope?

I would like to know our players thoughts on match officials and the affect it has on them? Dio and Collum if looks could kill there would be no Dio look at the difference when McGregor or their players interact with Collum?

Anyhow goodnight
 
ForeverBlue1972 said:
Why does he play other players like goldson lundstram you actually think Tav is a better player than Sterling away you go and he’s been playing every other position because of injuries that shows the manager trusts him
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Why isn’t Sterling RB? Why has he barely played there for us at all?
If he’s a better player then surely he would be starting? That’s just common sense is it not?
 
sammy1872 said:
If we can see it why cant gio, beale or clement (so far) are they niave to the fact they get managers the sack, do they believe they arnt the issue or if they are they can fix them. Is it simply the problem our best players are also our most mentally weak players. It doesnt appear that bar lundstrum whos out of contract clement wants any to leave. Even lundstrum if a deal could be agreed you suspect he would keep him
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Maybe Phil started the process when he dropped Goldson and just maybe the clique will all be away in the summer. Let’s hope so
 
A Combination of the following

We dont currently have better options, our recruitment has been shite
They're likely on long and expensive contracts
Until the cup win earlier this season they were some of the only players at club when we last won something
They probably dont have much sell on value
 
Hopefully we have two or three players back for the cup final which means Sterling can play at RB. Tav doesn't deserve to lead this team out at Hampden with so much at stake. We're not just playing for silverware but also attempting to stop a rot against them ahead of next season.

Hopefully Sima is back and he can play on the right like he did against them at Ibrox and Sterling can deal with that guy who constantly has our captain filling his shorts.

Clement binned Goldson at the right time and Tav's time has now come. Lundstram as well for being an absolute shitebag when we were that close to half time and back in a game that looked like it could spiral into a 4 or 5 nil after his OG.
 
Coisty9 said:
Its quite simple really. Clement gets rid of them or they'll get rid of him. He has to be absolutely ruthless in the Summer and gut the place. We can't go another season with the same charlatans and impostors delivering the same old pish.
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The only way he can 'gut' the place, is, if the board, stump up decent money to replace these players that need to leave.
Most should have left after #55 when their stock was it's peak!

I don't think that Gerrard or even Gio was afforded that luxury, of offloading these stalwarts.
Gerrard after he won the league brought in the likes of Lundstrum on a free.
Sakala on a free. Baccuna on a free.Instead of the likes of Joey Veerman.
Vauled at around 6-8 mill on the European market.
Think I'm missing one?
And this is just after winning the league!
With an aging squad already.
I don't think we bought anyone that summer either.

Gio was allowed to bring in, if memory serves.
Sands on a free.
Ramsey on a free.In January.
And after taking us to a European Final, winning the Scottish Cup, and missing out on the league by 3-4 points, with virtually the exact same players he inherited from Gerrard, Wilson brought in. Late in the window, that summer after we sold Big Calvin to Ajax -
Colak for 1.5 million?
Lawrence on a free?
Matondo late in the window. 3 million?
Davies 3-4 million? and Yilmaz 4 Million?
(For me the last 3 were panic buys)

And the talk was before Calvin was sold we would have approx 5-6 million tops we could spend on rebuilding this ever again squad again from scratch!
(Sound familiar)

It seems the board want to grind all our players into dust. Instead of selling them on when they have value. Any value!
E.g Kent, Morelos, last season, and now Jack, McLaughlin, Barasic, Lundstrum, will all walk away for nothing!
We have no business model of selling on players.
It's a fkuckin myth!
 
Any manager in any industry that comes in and turfs out the main men either has to have some solid replacements lined up or will very, very quickly lose any chance of gaining the trust of the rest of the employees. We don't have the option of replacing the incumbents with similarly experienced players so it would very foolish for any new manager to come in and ditch the leaders immediately.
 
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