Why does every poor result get blamed on Tav?

JW1988 said:
Potentially you're right. But as I say you improve Rangers by improving the areas that aren't working. I would personally say our CB, CM, wings and strikers are performing worse than our RB.
Of course if there's a better option out there then I'm at the stage I'll take anyone being replaced, especially as it'll have to be a helluva good player to be better than Tavernier over the course of a season.
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But it's about mental toughness and drive which no one can claim the players in question have.

Tavernier is a great player but for whatever reason he can't cope with the SPL when it really matters - neither can the rest and I definitely agree no one is free of criticism, especially the players who likely sit back and hope he does something.

It's time to move on from him as the main man of the team and that is on the manager now.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Did he not bugger off to Blackburn in the end, come back and let Walter down time and again until the point where he barely featured in the remaining half a year he was with us? think he maybe got the odd sympathy sub appearance. All this while also tanking his international career and bringing negative press on the club.
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That post sums you up.
Asking a question about a Rangers great.
He came back for 4 years.
He won 5 league titles, 5 Scottish cups and 5 league cups, not 3 trophies in 9 years.
A real Rangers captain and legend yet you've just totally disrespected him.
Between this and the leftie nonsense you come out with, you are never a Rangers supporter.
Embarrassment.
Can't argue with folk like you, like arguing with a Nat about independence.
 
JW1988 said:
Potentially you're right. But as I say you improve Rangers by improving the areas that aren't working. I would personally say our CB, CM, wings and strikers are performing worse than our RB.
Of course if there's a better option out there then I'm at the stage I'll take anyone being replaced, especially as it'll have to be a helluva good player to be better than Tavernier over the course of a season.
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If tavs goals are his best attribute, maybe he should be kept as a right winger and sign a better right back that can defend
 
Wordy_Rappinghood said:
But it's about mental toughness and drive which no one can claim the players in question have.

Tavernier is a great player but for whatever reason he can't cope with the SPL when it really matters - neither can the rest and I definitely agree no one is free of criticism, especially the players who likely sit back and hope he does something.

It's time to move on from him as the main man of the team and that is on the manager now.
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Completely agree. Boyd said it last night. Rangers cannot reply on a right back to dig us out time and again as he has a terrific record of doing. We need others to do it (mainly attacking players)
 
I think we all know Tav can’t defend but usually an attacking full back is covered by the centre back next to him. Tavs not had a decent centre back next to him for how long?
 
Angrybluebear said:
No one else is allowed to step up.

It’s his baw he takes all the throw ins, free kicks and corners.

He is also done, lost his first yard of pace that used to get him out of trouble, he is winning a race with no one, towing that caravan, and now has the turning circle of a double decker bus.
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Are you just living up to your username or do you really not understand how football works?

The coaches and management team decide who takes set plays. That isn't a new phenomenon either, its been that way since I can remember. If you genuinely think that any player just picks and chooses what set plays to take then you're beyond help and I would probably suggest taking up another sport.
 
Orange Peel said:
That post sums you up.
Asking a question about a Rangers great.
He came back for 4 years.
He won 5 league titles, 5 Scottish cups and 5 league cups, not 3 trophies in 9 years.
A real Rangers captain and legend yet you've just totally disrespected him.
Between this and the leftie nonsense you come out with, you are never a Rangers supporter.
Embarrassment.
Can't argue with folk like you, like arguing with a Nat about independence.
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I have never said he wasnt a great ranger, nor a great captain. I pointed out that he too let the club down, and let our greatest ever manager down. And thats not even discussing how he acts in the press nowadays.

Its good to see though that you feel anyone who disagrees slightly with your view, or is a 'leftie' cant possibly be a Rangers supporter. You are like a wailing toddler on here, desperate to be uber staunch and project yourself as a bigger supporter of the club than anyone else. Im not having a 'supporter off' with you as its a rid neck but if I did, I would fancy my chances.
 
TriggersBroom said:
John Greig was with us for what, about 16/17 years and won 5 league titles.

Thank feck social media wasn’t around back then with being second best fairly regularly.
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I'll guarantee you that if social media/FF had been around in the barren years from Kai Johansen's goal in 1966, till DJ's header in 1970, our captain, John Greig, wouldn't have been on anyone's hit list. There's a reason for that.

I truly believe in the early to mid 1980s we hit the nadir under the Greig and Wallace#2 years that were as bad as it could get for Rangers teams since WW1.

I'll tell you this, a Rangers team from say, 1984, would beat that cr@p we have at present.

However, you are entitled to make your point regards Tav getting the blame all the time, which I don't altogether agree with.

Again as I've said before we will never again see a full back being such a goal threat so make the best of it, while we can.

You mentioned him, so for the record John Greig scored 120 goals for Rangers, and he was for most of his career, a defensive midfielder cum full back.

I'm hardly on it now, but for the best part of the last two decades I've been in an email circle with my brother and some well kent people on this forum.

As far back as October 2015, both of us were starting to question Tav's defensive qualities. It's nothing new and nothing has changed. When the team second bottom of the league can exploit his defensive frailties, you know there has to come a time when you say enough is enough.

I don't know what the answer is?

The bottom line for me is that Tav is seen as the figurehead of the biggest bottle merchants we've seen, probably in living memory. Which, given his goals contribution probably isn't fair.
 
Think tav is a victim of his own lack of success.
Been at the club what, nine years and has one league title to his name?
(Not his fault in isolation, he’s had a lot of dross as team mates in the early years) but he’s the leader of a core group who continually fail to deliver any sustained success and as the leader, unfortunately for him he’s the one people will point to.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
I have never said he wasnt a great ranger, nor a great captain. I pointed out that he too let the club down, and let our greatest ever manager down. And thats not even discussing how he acts in the press nowadays.

Its good to see though that you feel anyone who disagrees slightly with your view, or is a 'leftie' cant possibly be a Rangers supporter. You are like a wailing toddler on here, desperate to be uber staunch and project yourself as a bigger supporter of the club than anyone else. Im not having a 'supporter off' with you as its a rid neck but if I did, I would fancy my chances.
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No chance.
Not replying to your pish again.
Nat.
 
Orange Peel said:
No chance.
Not replying to your pish again.
Nat.
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Labour actually, not that its relevant. Happy to discuss supporter credentials with you in a DM though rather than clog this thread. Unless of course, you are just full of hot air and rage as per. If not, enjoy your thursday.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Labour actually, not that its relevant. Happy to discuss supporter credentials with you in a DM though rather than clog this thread. Unless of course, you are just full of hot air and rage as per. If not, enjoy your thursday.
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Don't need to justify myself to you.
Good handful on here know me and my Rangers supporting background.
 
JW1988 said:
This is where we feel the loss of Davis and a fit Ryan Jack. They plug gaps well and Davis in particular knew where to be and when.
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Is it not time to give up trying to find a fit Jack or a Davis. Maybe it is a case of us not being able to afford a player like Tavernier because we can’t get others that will allow the style of game that is a must for him. Manager after manager has not found the answer when trying to get a player that will plug the gaps that our opponents take advantage of, costing us games and in turn trophies. They are shoehorning the likes of Wright and Tillman into positions that they are just not made for.
 
TerryMunro said:
Is it not time to give up trying to find a fit Jack or a Davis. Maybe it is a case of us not being able to afford a player like Tavernier because we can’t get others that will allow the style of game that is a must for him. Manager after manager has not found the answer when trying to get a player that will plug the gaps that our opponents take advantage of, costing us games and in turn trophies. They are shoehorning the likes of Wright and Tillman into positions that they are just not made for.
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You need a midfielder like that regardless of what formation or style you play though. We could have 4 defenders just sit in our half the entire game and we would still need a midfielder who anticipates where the ball will break like McGregor does at Celtic for instance
 
cooprfc said:
Because people think one man dictates whether a team wins or loses trophies.

Even when that man is one of the few contributing. And now he's had a few weeks not contributing we can see that the goals and points dry up.

It's bizarre. Bordering on an obsession from some.

Meanwhile guys like Cantwell who produce zero in the big moments get lauded.
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Goal v well....mentally challengeds....ross county...
 
Taverneeeeer said:
We have far, far bigger problems than Tav. maybe if others chipped in even half the effort or moments he did we wouldnt all be wailing and greeting in the few games he didnt.

It would also be easier to lead a team to success if we had a forward line (including the 3 in midfield) that were capable of hitting a cows backside with a banjo, especially in big pressure moments, maybe we wouldnt need to rely on our right back and then be furious when he has a few bad games out of about 50 in a season.
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We don't really rely on him as heavily as you are implying, take away penalties and give them to a midfielder if that happens you just solved two of your problems in a pretty quick fix and marginalized the importance of Tavernier
 
cooprfc said:
Because people think one man dictates whether a team wins or loses trophies.

Even when that man is one of the few contributing. And now he's had a few weeks not contributing we can see that the goals and points dry up.

It's bizarre. Bordering on an obsession from some.

Meanwhile guys like Cantwell who produce zero in the big moments get lauded.
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said it when we had Morelos all an opposing team has to do is nullify Morelos and Tavernier and they are almost there in regards to stopping Rangers , all they need to do is create 1 chance and score ....... which invariably happens
 
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JW1988 said:
Are you just living up to your username or do you really not understand how football works?

The coaches and management team decide who takes set plays. That isn't a new phenomenon either, its been that way since I can remember. If you genuinely think that any player just picks and chooses what set plays to take then you're beyond help and I would probably suggest taking up another sport.
Click to expand...

Do you honestly believe Clement tells the team they have to wait for Tav to saunter 50 yards up the park to take a throw in to gift possession straight back to the opposition.

It’s football not American football we don’t need a “kicker” have you ever played football, players train and practice every day. It’s not just Tav you know, however he feels he has to pull rank, it used to be him and Barisic, last night Lawrence was desperate to take it, I’ve seen him score from a free kick for us. I’d wager Barisic and Lawrence have a better conversion rate from direct free kicks than Tav.

Did you watch Chelsea the other night players fighting over a penalty, Poch just stood watched them, he wasn’t stamping his feet saying you know who has to take it.
 
He's hit 26 corners in our last 2 games that amount to nothing, but he is captain so he decides set pieces which we are absolutely gash at, for the amount of free kicks around the area, and corners that we get our return is poor. He would be getting all the credit if we were successful so he should shoulder the blame if we are not, if it's just a token gesture why the reluctance to drop him or our vice captain goldson, blunder after blunder, maybe rest would do them and us good. Big clubs drop their captains and remove the arm band if required ie ManU Harry maguire.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
I'll guarantee you that if social media/FF had been around in the barren years from Kai Johansen's goal in 1966, till DJ's header in 1970, our captain, John Greig, wouldn't have been on anyone's hit list. There's a reason for that.

I truly believe in the early to mid 1980s we hit the nadir under the Greig and Wallace#2 years that were as bad as it could get for Rangers teams since WW1.

I'll tell you this, a Rangers team from say, 1984, would beat that cr@p we have at present.

However, you are entitled to make your point regards Tav getting the blame all the time, which I don't altogether agree with.

Again as I've said before we will never again see a full back being such a goal threat so make the best of it, while we can.

You mentioned him, so for the record John Greig scored 120 goals for Rangers, and he was for most of his career, a defensive midfielder cum full back.

I'm hardly on it now, but for the best part of the last two decades I've been in an email circle with my brother and some well kent people on this forum.

As far back as October 2015, both of us were starting to question Tav's defensive qualities. It's nothing new and nothing has changed. When the team second bottom of the league can exploit his defensive frailties, you know there has to come a time when you say enough is enough.

I don't know what the answer is?

The bottom line for me is that Tav is seen as the figurehead of the biggest bottle merchants we've seen, probably in living memory. Which, given his goals contribution probably isn't fair.
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played all of his youth football as a right winger so lacks defensive qualities that should come natural as a defender
 
NFTG said:
We don't really rely on him as heavily as you are implying, take away penalties and give them to a midfielder if that happens you just solved two of your problems in a pretty quick fix and marginalized the importance of Tavernier
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Assuming said midfielder scores the pens mate. Remember we tried this before under gerrard and worked our way around about 4 players who kept missing before it went back to Tav. I do get the crux of your point though.
 
TriggersBroom said:
genuinely baffling.

How anyone could watch tonight and believe Tav is the problem is beyond me.

We had a woeful midfield 3 that Dundee walked through at times which happened at the weekend as well. Lundstram and Lawrence barely got beyond jogging pace tonight.

We have multiple forward players who struggle to create and stick the ball in the net. In January many felt we needed to sign a goalscorer and that’s now coming back to bite us on the arse.

Silva, Matondo are useless. Roofe is like an old cripple and Dessers is just woeful.

Goldson and Souttar are a bombscare partnership.

Tav has flaws, no arguments there. If he didn’t then he’d be playing at a far higher level.

But the amount of unfair criticism towards him is genuinely baffling.

“He goes hiding” - utter shite. No matter how bad he’s playing or the team is playing, he always shows for the ball and tries to drive us forward.

“He’s a bottle merchant” - utter shite. Lost count how many times he’s stepped up in pressure situations/moments in massive games to deliver an assist/free kick/goal. Hardly the signs of a bottler.

“he’s no a captain” - two world class players and captains in GVB and SG sung his praises as a captain and player but what do they know. All because he doesn’t scream and shout and grab teammates by the throat on the park.

He was our biggest contributor in reaching the Europa league final, top scorer in the competition scoring many pressure penalties including leading in the shootout with the first penalty. Almost won the thing had it not been for Ramsay.

Stepped up in the league cup final and regularly in the 55 season.

The trophy count since he’s been here hasn’t been good enough but it’s a collective team issue rather than a Tav issue. And the first few years he was here is hardly a stick to beat him with given the shite surrounding him and the circus we had in the dugout until Gerrard arrived.

If fans genuinely believe getting rid of Tav will result in our defence being solid and midfield/strikers making up Tav’s numbers and us winning everything in sight, it’s delusional IMO. And only when he leaves will we realise just how much he brings to the table.

We’ve far bigger problems in the team to address than Tav.
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His distribution with the ball recently is shocking for a professional player thats why.
 
JW1988 said:
You need a midfielder like that regardless of what formation or style you play though. We could have 4 defenders just sit in our half the entire game and we would still need a midfielder who anticipates where the ball will break like McGregor does at Celtic for instance
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We are being left in a situation where players that are completely unfit for a specific role are underperforming and not unsurprisingly. Wright,Tillman,Kent etc are attacking midfielders, they aren’t the type that you tell to stay behind the right back in case there is a break away for the opponents. Lundstrum isn’t the best in that role either.

It’s maybe time to admit that we just can’t find or maybe afford a player that allows a system where Tavernier can thrive in. It’s a very strategic minded system and if one player switches off it causes exactly what we are seeing.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
Not good enough to beat Motherwell, Ross County and Dundee.

We were second best for 80 odd minutes at Dingwall. Keep hearing that celtic are crap yet we cannot beat them. Celtic have had Johnston, Taylor, Iwata, Kuhn, Yang, Scales for a lot of the season and are on course for winning their 54th league title.
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That's right, on the day they weren't good enough to beat these teams.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
Assuming said midfielder scores the pens mate. Remember we tried this before under gerrard and worked our way around about 4 players who kept missing before it went back to Tav. I do get the crux of your point though.
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Players do miss penalties on occasion, Tav has missed 4 this season.

I would expect a competent midfielder to have a decent goal return in the league if they hit 15 penalties. If you remove the penalty return from Tavs goals he has only scored 5 league goals from open play, it's really not as reliant on him as you say
 
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90sbear said:
He's hit 26 corners in our last 2 games that amount to nothing, but he is captain so he decides set pieces which we are absolutely gash at, for the amount of free kicks around the area, and corners that we get our return is poor. He would be getting all the credit if we were successful so he should shoulder the blame if we are not, if it's just a token gesture why the reluctance to drop him or our vice captain goldson, blunder after blunder, maybe rest would do them and us good. Big clubs drop their captains and remove the arm band if required ie ManU Harry maguire.
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Made up nonsense which shows how little you understand football
 
Barryhopez said:
:))so you have no proof of what you claim, just your opinion based on which emotions you experience after a (poor) result.
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Part of a captain’s job is to motivate and inspire. Either he didn’t try, which is unlikely, or he couldn’t get a response. Either way, it partly answers the question put “Why does Tav get the blame”

Do you think the team has look inspired and motivated in recent games?
 
Angrybluebear said:
Do you honestly believe Clement tells the team they have to wait for Tav to saunter 50 yards up the park to take a throw in to gift possession straight back to the opposition.

It’s football not American football we don’t need a “kicker” have you ever played football, players train and practice every day. It’s not just Tav you know, however he feels he has to pull rank, it used to be him and Barisic, last night Lawrence was desperate to take it, I’ve seen him score from a free kick for us. I’d wager Barisic and Lawrence have a better conversion rate from direct free kicks than Tav.

Did you watch Chelsea the other night players fighting over a penalty, Poch just stood watched them, he wasn’t stamping his feet saying you know who has to take it.
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I'll indulge you, if nothing for the sake of education.
We have SET set piece takers. It's decided by the management team and coaches as I've already explained to you. Why do you think Davies took a corner earlier in the season? Because it was decided he was to do it. Or do you actually think a manager just sends his team out and lets them do as they please? When Barisic and Tavernier are in the side they are our designated set play takers. That's a fact.
You've mentioned the Chelsea embarrassment, Their captain correctly told the others to %^*& off and let their designated penalty taker in Palmer hit it.

As for throw ins, in general full backs take them. Unless there's a long throw specialist. Again that's not new. However I do agree that throw ins can be taken by anyone really, the only downside is it can impact the structure of the side if (as we do) you lose possession fairly quickly after the throw.

If you honestly do believe that the players just decide who takes set plays on the cuff and because Tav is the captain he decides it is him then I can't help you there.
 
jigster said:
played all of his youth football as a right winger so lacks defensive qualities that should come natural as a defender
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I'm not sure how to reply to this.

We bought him from Wigan I'm sure. We bought him as a right back.

So it's safe to assume, he's been a right back for at least 15 years at professional level at least? Would that be fair to say?

But because he was a right winger at youth level he gets a free pass for defending, that at times is pretty is very shoddy?

Nah, not from me.
 
FirstToFifty said:
He told us himself he can't handle pressure and folk still think people are making it up about his mentality and how a captain with weak mentality can affect the squad.

Barely any of those great moments there were when we were expected to go dominate a game and show why we're favourites in a must win game, that's where he falls apart.
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When did he say he?
 
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