Why does every poor result get blamed on Tav?

I’d turn that around and say I don’t think you’re getting it.

Despite your patronising post, I’ve been going to Ibrox and away games for just over 30 years so I’ve seen us under Walter during the highs, and seen the lows under PLG, McLeish in his final year and the more recent decade or so of utter shite.

IMO Tav would have been our first choice right back in any Rangers team from the early 90’s.

Do you genuinely believe that replacing Tav will result in us hoovering up every other trophy?

As I’ve said repeatedly, the biggest issue IMO is the lack of quality throughout our squad and first 11 in particular.

Realistically what players would anyone be sad to see leaving in the summer? For me only Butland falls into that category.

Players I’d like to keep as I think they’d be better amongst better quality of players / have a future would be Sima, Diomande, Raskin.

We require major surgery in the team and again, I think right back is way down the pecking order.

Stick Tavernier in the mentally challenged team the last 10 seasons and he'd have 9 league titles to his name. Folk are just hilariously deluded when it comes to him for some reason. He's been playing with jobbers and dud managers. He's legitimately the least of our problems right now. Folk can't see the woods for the trees.
 
The reason he gets the blame for every defeat is simply because he's been here so long he, along with Goldson and now Lundstram have become the poster boys for repeated failure, which is a bit unfair for a few reasons.

Nobody is arguing that they are world beaters, but they're decent players. Certainly capable of playing in good Rangers teams, having already done so. They can blow hot and cold with regards to form but then, that happens to world class players, so expecting 9/10 performances every week is ludicrous.

There's only one reason we haven't won more in the last few years and it's dead simple.

It's not lack of "winning mentality."

It's not because we don't have enough Rangers supporters that "just get it."

It's not because we don't have "a core of Scottish players."

It's not because we don't have "a Gough type captain."

It's because, in general, over the last few years celtic have had better players and a better management team than we've had, as uncomfortable a truth that is to many.

People looking at Tav, and to a lesser extent the other two as the reason we don't win more are daft. Of course, they can have poor performances, poor form, make mistakes, cost goals but the reason they remain here so long is that we can't afford to replace them with better quality, or we'd have done it by now.

Tav is our best, most productive player. Has been for years. We aren't losing games and trophies because he's in the team, it's because he's playing in teams with Garner, Wright, Dessers, Lammers, Cifuentes, Kiernan, Pena, Martin, Beerman, the list is endless. People cry that he's not a captain like he can rally Silva into becoming a winger or inspire Dessers into Alan Shearer, it's crazy.

Tav, Goldson, Lundstram. When they make mistakes, it costs us goals and games. But as I've said on here repeatedly, Our defence is functional for Scottish football. We don't concede an excessive amount of goals.

All our issues are at the top end of the pitch.

We don't have a reliable striker on the books.

Matondo, poor return.
McCausland, poor return.
Silva, poor return.
Sima, good return on the left, now on the right.
Cantwell, poor return.
Lawrence, poor return.
Dowell, poor return.
Wright, no return.

This is our attacking options. Where's the goals coming from?

Some even say Dessers has had a decent return despite having a very similar return in the league to Alfredo Morelos final season when he phoned it in. He's been mediocre at an absolute push.

The only one out of the above you can rely on isn't even our player. The only one I'd be happy to see here next season.

The Ross County result doesn't happen if we kill it off earlier. The Motherwell and Dundee games we created nothing substantial.

We don't even  look like scoring goals.

How does the backline keep getting the blame?
Excellent post.

Our defensive record is best in the league, yet it's the first port of call for our own to have a go at.

The defence do their jobs - Butland's clean sheets (47% of games across all competitions) aren't achieved in isolation - they're achieved as part of a defensive unit. Why do Tav and Goldson continually play? Because they've been the only ones consistently fit enough to play. Souttar? Injuries. Balogun? Injuries. Yilmaz? Injuries. Barisic? Injuries. Davies? Who actually knows?

Sterling should replace Tav, but should also be in midfield to replace Lundstram? Make up your mind, lads. Also, he's another just back from injuries.

Middle to front, we're honking. Cantwell, Lawrence, Silva, and Dowell offer little. Matondo contributes numbers but doesn't get a consistent run, Dessers is Dessers. I get not spending 4m+ in a striker in January - we've got 6m Danilo to come back and can't just write that off. His numbers are good, so hopefully comes back at that level.

Cortes looked good, but is in the shelf. Diomande too.

Defence isn't the primary issue
 
Despite his goals, he seems incapable of ether motivating or inspiring those around him when the chips are down.
As captain he has to overcome a fear of failure which actually creates failure.
He seldom does.
Yet Gerrard and GVB thought he was captain material , both of who have captained at the highest level with club and country.

Yet you think you know better.
 
I've been going a lot longer than that mate.
Just leave it, don't mean to sound patronising but you just are not getting it.
You've got some opinion of tav though, deary me.
Off the top of my head though he is nowhere near Gary Stevens or Alan Hutton.
Alan Hutton? The same guy that often copped pelters for being a poor defender but good in attack.

Hutton has even sung the praises of Tav many times on punditry and how his stats were unbelievable.

But yeah, you get it …
 
He's a jobber.

Most goal contributions (25) in the league with 17 goals and 8 assists. Also part of the best defensive record in the league. Yeah but Tavernier is the problem. Waken up ffs.

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Alan Hutton? The same guy that often copped pelters for being a poor defender but good in attack.

Hutton has even sung the praises of Tav many times on punditry and how his stats were unbelievable.

But yeah, you get it …
So you are now telling me tav would be picked before Hutton?
Trigger right enough.
 
You lot?
Why does he need to be compared?
He's had his time and needs to be away in the summer.
Been at the heart of too many failures.
Yeah, you lot who compare to previous captains (you yourself brought one into it: "Barry Ferguson gets it tight on here but he was a real Rangers captain.
He'd have dragged 6 points out of these last 2 games by hook or by crook.").

There's very much a double standard in that you can refer to previous captains as a means of insulting our current captain, but any retort or use of the same argumental device is laughable to you.

If comparisons cannot be made with our own captains, then it's only natural that people will look to compare with others, particularly when the board is filled with comments about Gough, Ferguson, Greig etc and how they would never preside over failure. Except Greig very much did.

If trophies won are the mark of success, then for 10 long years, Greig presided over us being (at best) second best. In that period, by the very definitions applied to slate Tav, he was a serial loser (again, using the same terms of reference as you lot apply to Tav).

1964/65 - 5th place 6pts behind *League cup
1965/66 - 2nd place 2pts behind *Scottish cup
1966/67 - 2nd place 3pts behind
1967/68 - 2nd place 2pts behind
1968/69 - 2nd place 5pts behind
1969/70 - 2nd place 13pts behind
1970/71 - 4th place 15pts behind
1971/72 - 3rd place 16pts behind European CWC
1972/73 - 2nd place 1pt behind. *Scottish Cup
1973/74 - 3rd place 5pts behind
 
Cost us the league 21 seconds into the biggest OF game in years.
You need to wake up.
Fabio Silva ffs.
Young one's accept mediocrity now.

Anyone can make points from single iterations or moments. Look at the bigger picture. Look at his sample size and his contributions. He's really the only one in this group of mediocrity who does stand up.

Fabio Silva is a dire player, we can agree on that.
 
Yeah, you lot who compare to previous captains (you yourself brought one into it: "Barry Ferguson gets it tight on here but he was a real Rangers captain.
He'd have dragged 6 points out of these last 2 games by hook or by crook.").

There's very much a double standard in that you can refer to previous captains as a means of insulting our current captain, but any retort or use of the same argumental device is laughable to you.

If comparisons cannot be made with our own captains, then it's only natural that people will look to compare with others, particularly when the board is filled with comments about Gough, Ferguson, Greig etc and how they would never preside over failure. Except Greig very much did. If trophies won are the mark of success, then for 10 long years, Greig presided over us being (at best) second best. In that period, by the very definitions applied to slate Tav, he was a serial loser.

1964/65 - 5th place 6pts behind *League cup
1965/66 - 2nd place 2pts behind *Scottish cup
1966/67 - 2nd place 3pts behind
1967/68 - 2nd place 2pts behind
1968/69 - 2nd place 5pts behind
1969/70 - 2nd place 13pts behind
1970/71 - 4th place 15pts behind
1971/72 - 3rd place 16pts behind European CWC
1972/73 - 2nd place 1pt behind. *Scottish Cup
1973/74 - 3rd place 5pts behind
John Greig, the greatest Ranger? Up against a great celtic team and still won trophies. This celtic team are shite.
Fair enough regarding Ferguson but it is true what I said.
Folk on here disrespecting him and spouting shite about tav being the best rb since the 90's.
Greig didn't have to take every throw in, free kick and corner and wasn't targeted for being a weak link.
You seem older, it's usually younger one's post 2012 who have the losing mentality ingrained in them.
Tav stays and next year will be the same.
3 trophies in 9 years.
 
Kept us in the title race on many occasions this season with his contributions as well as his winner in the LCF.

He made a mistake in the old firm but to put our whole season down to a fluke goal is wild.
Was a fluke but he was terrible.
 
I’d have him before Hutton.

Hutton had 6 good months with us and went for a good fee.

But I recall his defensive capabilities were questioned and he obviously is nowhere near as good going forward as Tav was.
Compare their careers and I'll go with the judgement of top managers in England and their respective international managers.
You are at it now.
 
Not the issue for me.

He is surrounded by fucking dross. Goldson on one side and then he hasnt had any real quality infront of him for a long time. Hes also missing the likes of Jack or even Kamara who would cover that half space that would allow him to attack more.
 
I’d have him before Hutton.

Hutton had 6 good months with us and went for a good fee.

But I recall his defensive capabilities were questioned and he obviously is nowhere near as good going forward as Tav was.

He did, Hutton, he had an exceptional 6 months and got a move to Spurs.

You would have thought in this day and age of the EPL and the riches they have, the need for home grown players someone would have chucked a serious chunk of cash at us for Tavernier given his goal return and numbers, it surely does seem odd they haven't

You would have thought he would have wanted away from the bums and losers who have managed him and he has played with and held him back all his career as well. it sounds like a f*cking hellish environment to be part of
 
Four years ago Tav wrote the following in a match programme.

"Whenever anyone puts a bit of pressure on or gets in our faces it seems to affect us to much"

Nothings changed since then.
 
My question is this - since he's been here, how many players have, at any point for any length of time, been at the levels of effort and/or contribution/levels of importance that Tav has reached in his time here?

I'd say

Mcgregor
Butland
Goldson
Bassey
Morelos
Kent

In that period he's had roughly 130 teammates.
What has Tavs goals actually won us?
Well just a few months ago he scored an absolute belter to win us the league cup. If Ramsey could hit a penalty he'd also have won us a European trophy as top scorer in the Europa league.
 
genuinely baffling.

How anyone could watch tonight and believe Tav is the problem is beyond me.

We had a woeful midfield 3 that Dundee walked through at times which happened at the weekend as well. Lundstram and Lawrence barely got beyond jogging pace tonight.

We have multiple forward players who struggle to create and stick the ball in the net. In January many felt we needed to sign a goalscorer and that’s now coming back to bite us on the arse.

Silva, Matondo are useless. Roofe is like an old cripple and Dessers is just woeful.

Goldson and Souttar are a bombscare partnership.

Tav has flaws, no arguments there. If he didn’t then he’d be playing at a far higher level.

But the amount of unfair criticism towards him is genuinely baffling.

“He goes hiding” - utter shite. No matter how bad he’s playing or the team is playing, he always shows for the ball and tries to drive us forward.

“He’s a bottle merchant” - utter shite. Lost count how many times he’s stepped up in pressure situations/moments in massive games to deliver an assist/free kick/goal. Hardly the signs of a bottler.

“he’s no a captain” - two world class players and captains in GVB and SG sung his praises as a captain and player but what do they know. All because he doesn’t scream and shout and grab teammates by the throat on the park.

He was our biggest contributor in reaching the Europa league final, top scorer in the competition scoring many pressure penalties including leading in the shootout with the first penalty. Almost won the thing had it not been for Ramsay.

Stepped up in the league cup final and regularly in the 55 season.

The trophy count since he’s been here hasn’t been good enough but it’s a collective team issue rather than a Tav issue. And the first few years he was here is hardly a stick to beat him with given the shite surrounding him and the circus we had in the dugout until Gerrard arrived.

If fans genuinely believe getting rid of Tav will result in our defence being solid and midfield/strikers making up Tav’s numbers and us winning everything in sight, it’s delusional IMO. And only when he leaves will we realise just how much he brings to the table.

We’ve far bigger problems in the team to address than Tav.
Agree 100% with every word mate.
The new manager is also under fire now as well.
The players who are getting the abuse lately like Tav and Lundstrom were getting praised not so long ago.
Are we getting another new manager??
Nothing would surprise any of us now.
 
My question is this - since he's been here, how many players have, at any point for any length of time, been at the levels of effort and/or contribution/levels of importance that Tav has reached in his time here?

I'd say

Mcgregor
Butland
Goldson
Bassey
Morelos
Kent

In that period he's had roughly 130 teammates.

Well just a few months ago he scored an absolute belter to win us the league cup. If Ramsey could hit a penalty he'd also have won us a European trophy as top scorer in the Europa league.
Please leave out the "if' nonsense as there are several instances I could quote on that.
 
All these Tav fanboys must be young fellas in their early 20’s

If anyone seriously thinks we are winning a league title with a captain who’s been through half a dozen managers I’m not sure what else can convince you.
A rather strange way of looking at it.
As if Tavernier is responsible for getting half a dozen managers the sack.
Fucking laughable.

How about half a dozen managers (whether they are good enough for Rangers or not) that know more about the game of football than you ever will, have all stuck by a player who has scored over a hundred goals from full back.

This place is comical at times.

PS. I’m 64.
 
Not the issue for me.

He is surrounded by fucking dross. Goldson on one side and then he hasnt had any real quality infront of him for a long time. Hes also missing the likes of Jack or even Kamara who would cover that half space that would allow him to attack more.
He constantly goes missing at the far post/RB position which should be his main area of defence! The Motherwell winner for example! Get`s sucked in to the centre of the penalty box at corners and free kicks!
 
Excellent post.

Our defensive record is best in the league, yet it's the first port of call for our own to have a go at.

The defence do their jobs - Butland's clean sheets (47% of games across all competitions) aren't achieved in isolation - they're achieved as part of a defensive unit. Why do Tav and Goldson continually play? Because they've been the only ones consistently fit enough to play. Souttar? Injuries. Balogun? Injuries. Yilmaz? Injuries. Barisic? Injuries. Davies? Who actually knows?

Sterling should replace Tav, but should also be in midfield to replace Lundstram? Make up your mind, lads. Also, he's another just back from injuries.

Middle to front, we're honking. Cantwell, Lawrence, Silva, and Dowell offer little. Matondo contributes numbers but doesn't get a consistent run, Dessers is Dessers. I get not spending 4m+ in a striker in January - we've got 6m Danilo to come back and can't just write that off. His numbers are good, so hopefully comes back at that level.

Cortes looked good, but is in the shelf. Diomande too.

Defence isn't the primary issue
Correct. Midfield is gash.
 
A rather strange way of looking at it.
As if Tavernier is responsible for getting half a dozen managers the sack.
Fucking laughable.

How about half a dozen managers (whether they are good enough for Rangers or not) that know more about the game of football than you ever will, have all stuck by a player who has scored over a hundred goals from full back.

This place is comical at times.

PS. I’m 64.
Your 64 years old and don’t see a problem that our biggest goal threat comes from a right back .

Your right big yin, this place is “comical” at times.
 
Theres been a mid season collapse in this team ever since Gerrards first season

Theres a mentaility issue at the heart of this team that seems to affect every player that walks through the door

One things for certain, if PC starts Tav,Goldson and JL next season he will be out a job and we will be here lamenting another title for celtic
Everything you say is spot on.
 
Tav will most likely be the right back again next season due to how shite our recruitment has been elsewhere. We need 2 strikers, 2 wingers(sima and Cortes?), 3 midfielders, 2 centre backs before you even get to the full back position. That’s how shite this squad of players are currently.

Would be good to have a midfield and attack at least on the same level as them. You just need to watch games against each other to see we’re nowhere near their midfield and attack.
 
They were managers I'm sure when they picked him?
Does that not suit your agenda?
Yes they were.

But they had experience at the top level and being captains at the highest level. Both deemed him worthy of being captain.

You’re just arguing for arguing sakes here.

We get it. You don’t like him and think he’s a major source of our problems. I don’t and believe there’s far more ahead of him that are bigger problems.
 
Yes they were.

But they had experience at the top level and being captains at the highest level. Both deemed him worthy of being captain.

You’re just arguing for arguing sakes here.

We get it. You don’t like him and think he’s a major source of our problems. I don’t and believe there’s far more ahead of him that are bigger problems.
You are not bright enough to get it.
Lounge time, you've bored the tits off me.
 
The reason we haven't won much has got nothing to do with Tav, painful as it is its simply Celtic are better than us and have been for years. We could have any of the top ten RBs in the world and I doubt it would have made a difference to our medal haul
Spot on. If Tav is the issue, take him out and replace him with Walker, Trent, Hakimi. Can fucking guarantee you we have the exact same number of trophies.
 
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