You’re the manager - Tactics

A

A Class Above

Well-Known Member
There has been a lot of tactics threads over the last couple of days which would suggest there was many flaws in the way we set up on Wednesday.

What I would like to know is what would you do or what would you have done tactically?

You can use hindsight, or it could be something you would have done, or would do for a game at parkhead. Three for me are:

1. This is possibly a hindsight one but I would have possibly done what Lennon did against us when they beat us at Ibrox on 1.9.19 and hit it in to the corner straight from kick off. That day we as fans were up for it and I remember we didn’t get out our half for 5 minutes or so after they did this. It took the sting out the crowd and for me made a bit of a difference that day.

2. Not hindsight - we knew Celtic were going to approach the game with an intensity that would be difficult to match in the first half however they would run out of steam in the second half. I think we should have matched the intensity in the first 10 minutes and pressed them the way they pressed us. Also show more desire in how we closed down or went into the tackles etc. This would allow them to realise they were in a game. The shitebag approach played right into their hands.

3. Not hindsight - any one who has watched Scottish football knows their main threat is down the sides and they try to leave the wingers 1 on 1 with the fullbacks through the inverted full backs that they play with. Knowing this I think it was important to trust our full backs but reinforce to them that there is a lot of responsibility on their shoulders. They need to get tight and cannot be beaten. Instead we seemed to let their wingers have free reign and did not change it when everyone could see it wasn’t working after 10 minutes.
 
A Class Above said:
There has been a lot of tactics threads over the last couple of days which would suggest there was many flaws in the way we set up on Wednesday.

What I would like to know is what would you do or what would you have done tactically?

You can use hindsight, or it could be something you would have done, or would do for a game at parkhead. Three for me are:

1. This is possibly a hindsight one but I would have possibly done what Lennon did against us when they beat us at Ibrox on 1.9.19 and hit it in to the corner straight from kick off. That day we as fans were up for it and I remember we didn’t get out our half for 5 minutes or so after they did this. It took the sting out the crowd and for me made a bit of a difference that day.

2. Not hindsight - we knew Celtic were going to approach the game with an intensity that would be difficult to match in the first half however they would run out of steam in the second half. I think we should have matched the intensity in the first 10 minutes and pressed them the way they pressed us. Also show more desire in how we closed down or went into the tackles etc. This would allow them to realise they were in a game. The shitebag approach played right into their hands.

3. Not hindsight - any one who has watched Scottish football knows their main threat is down the sides and they try to leave the wingers 1 on 1 with the fullbacks through the inverted full backs that they play with. Knowing this I think it was important to trust our full backs but reinforce to them that there is a lot of responsibility on their shoulders. They need to get tight and cannot be beaten. Instead we seemed to let their wingers have free reign and did not change it when everyone could see it wasn’t working after 10 minutes.
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First line, I’d agree with.
Second line as well.
I’d have caused a meltdown with my “tactical plan” to combat their intense start had I posted it on here.
However, I suggested to friends to drop Kent and Diallo, bring in Davis and Lundstram and play a definite 4-5-1.
Five subs would have allowed us to change this, either way, with the idea being this once their impetus had been quelled.
 
Gio set us out to defend in that first half. It was obviously a disaster, but I think everyone could have predicted that.

This Rangers team are not good at sitting back and trying to defend. Our strength is pressing teams high up the pitch and winning possession there. It's the simple rule in football, that you have to play to your strengths.

There was one single occasion in the first half that we did press them high and they conceded a throw in, in their last third.

That Celtic team are an accident waiting to happen when they're pressed high up. We have ideal players to have carried out a high press with Kent ,Sakala, Dailla, Arfield, Aribo,etc.

We allowed them to play to their strengths in having time on the ball and using their wide men without any pressure on them.

Your average bottom half SPL team would have been better organised defensively than us.

The management needed to be brave with their tactics, and the players also needed to be brave and up for it.

If we had started that game with high energy and not giving them any time on the ball, it would have put a lot of confidence throughout our whole team. But because of the negative tactics, it had the exact opposite effect on our players.
 
The tactics wouldn't have mattered because the team, despite our support from them leaving the ground all the way across the city, didn't want to be there. There was 2 ways to approach that game, playing the way we did with 2 or maybe 3 deeper midfielders, or the team we used and pressing them higher. Unfortunately we sat deep with an exposed midfield and just allowed a team who's only way to play is go completely all out. I was actually happy with the team when it was announced as I thought he was going to make them play deeper and play our game. But no, that alongside the utterly shocking but not surprising displays from some of the so called starts and leaders killed it completely within 45 minutes.
 
I think Gerrard’s shape, or a version he used in last OF last season, would still work against them. The aggressive form of it pressing high, not the passive version we saw in the end with him.

4312.

Two forwards high to stop them playing out and and more attacking threat.

Number 10 there to stop to stop them building up as easily through McGregor and full backs coming inside.

Midfield 3 that keep shape to block passes, rather than follow players about. Then slide and press wide when needed. Was far too easy for them to get ball to their dangerous players. Easier for us to build attacks too.

Back 4 higher and quicker to engage wingers when needed.

Then nothing fancy, be aggressive and win battles. Chances will come against them if you play properly and be aggressively.
 
tazzabear said:
However, I suggested to friends to drop Kent and Diallo, bring in Davis and Lundstram and play a definite 4-5-1.
Five subs would have allowed us to change this, either way, with the idea being this once their impetus had been quelled.
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Exactly the way other SPFL teams keep it tight against them.
 
Firstly I would stop thinking how I can stop them and instead how I can hurt them. That's gios biggest fault.

I'd them return to Gerrards Christmas tree formation to dominate the middle of the pitch and make it difficult for them to have any build up play.

The wide players can't be standing on touchlines all day as this is killing the space for the full backs and simply leaves us far too stretched as a team.
 
3-4-3. The fullbacks needs to be allowed to have more influence on matches again, you're wasting two good attacking fullbacks by asking them to defend more. The squad is also better suited to playing with a back three as opposed to Gio's current system.
 
butch70 said:
Tactics did play a part but for me it was the players lack of desire and to be brave but they let us down again exactly the same way against hibs in the semi,IF we now win this league I for one will be very surprised.
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100% all about attitude. It was completely lacking.
 
It's all about winning the midfield battle how we were ever going to do that with 1 sitting midfielder and 2 others that want to get forward and 2 wingers that are told to stay wide is unbelievable and then don't press from the front with so many attack minded players.
 
Our defence was receiving the ball with someone breathing down the players neck and with no where to go and inevitably we gave them the ball .
 
Get the full backs back to playing to their strengths.

Get the front 3 to press high, in every single game.

Demand more aggression when out of possession, win your personal battles.


If we do those 3 things, our quality prevails and we win games.
 
Can we call it out for what it was?
We set up to contain with our best attacking players - stupid.
The players didn’t have a clue wtf they were supposed to do, or, they patched the instructions.
At 3-0 down we then bring on “the spine” in Balogun and Jack.
If he wanted to contain it should’ve been a team of players who can contain, not Kent and Diallo starting ffs.
 
I think it’s pretty simple, the way Gerrard used to set out his teams. 433 keep it tight in the middle, don’t allow passes into the middle. That would have stopped a lot of the issues that happened. Even if you sit in with that formation you can be comfortable if you keep the formation tight. It’s also a lot easier to press in that formation as well.
 
tazzabear said:
First line, I’d agree with.
Second line as well.
I’d have caused a meltdown with my “tactical plan” to combat their intense start had I posted it on here.
However, I suggested to friends to drop Kent and Diallo, bring in Davis and Lundstram and play a definite 4-5-1.
Five subs would have allowed us to change this, either way, with the idea being this once their impetus had been quelled.
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Gios selection could have worked if the players were set to attack but they weren’t. So we ended up in a halfway house of having attacking players on the pitch but trying to play defensively. A recipe for the disaster we witnessed.

Your team would’ve fared better and was far more sensible and workable if the plan was to keep it to 0-0 or even 1-0 to them then after an hour bring on Sakala and kent.

What concerns me is you and I could see this and every Joe bloggs on the street knew it but our management team didn’t.
 
derbybear said:
Simple. Get the back 4 to defend from the half way line.
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Last season we lost few goals but I don't think it was because our defenders, who had gifted goals in previous seasons, all of a sudden became brilliant.

I think it was more of as you suggest, push up twenty yards, press your opponents high up the pitch and win the ball back off them and play in their half.

The system played by the tims, probably even more aggressively, similarly keeps teams from exposing their defence which when under pressure doesn't always look too clever.

It's my biggest frustration all season that we haven't played this high pressing game this season, that and Wednesday where we just failed to even to attempt to match them.
 
4231, that changes to a 3 at the back when attacking or pressing higher up the pitch. This only works if everyone applies the necessary effort, unlike Wednesday.
 
tazzabear said:
First line, I’d agree with.
Second line as well.
I’d have caused a meltdown with my “tactical plan” to combat their intense start had I posted it on here.
However, I suggested to friends to drop Kent and Diallo, bring in Davis and Lundstram and play a definite 4-5-1.
Five subs would have allowed us to change this, either way, with the idea being this once their impetus had been quelled.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, I said before game we had to win the midfield and we need numbers in there to do that, they overload in the middle with the two inverted full backs basically a 2-2-3-3 formation. GvB went with an attacking 433 but assuming the players stuck with instructions(?) tried to contain them which is a total contradiction of tactics and formation. As you pointed out 5 subs gives untold options to change. I'd really like to hear GvB explaining his reasoning behind how he set up and was it lack of homework and tactical knowledge by him and his staff or players not following instruction, it must be one of the two.
 
Press opponents from the start.

Allow wingers to come inside opposed to just staying wide on the touchline.

Play fullbacks higher.

Emphasis on quick forward playing build up over the current repeated cycle of play of Goldson to Bassey to McGregor then punt.

Jack in instead of Kamara.

In reality, the pessimist in me says we’ll see much of the same tactics we’ve unfortunately had to endure since the winter break.

Edit - posted with Sunday in mind.
 
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Gio made a complete mess of it..... FFS tactics for away to Celtic are not hard ... not hard at all....

Flood the midfield, win the centre of the pitch the rest comes from there, have the two wingers come in and play narrower, cut out the gaps and lines for them to play for. First 10 mins put a marker down, let them know that this isnt gonna be easy.

The last thing you wanna do is leaves gaps between midfeld and atack, sit back and invite them onto you, give them all the confidence in the world
 
Gio picked an attacking team to defend.

With the side he picked we should have played high press.

If we were looking to defend then id have gone a 451, sacrificing the likes of Kent and diallo for davis/jack/Lundstram and just defend aggressively until they inevitably tired themselves out then made the attacking changes.

Diallo and Kent didn't want to do the hard work and we were left exposed at the back, they constantly found pockets of space.
 
Pick a midfield 3 that dominates the area. Jack, davis, Arfield for example. Or jack Kamara Ramsey.

Allow the fullbacks freedom of the wings.

Play aribo in one of the 2 wide 10's and play either Kent or Diallo in the other.

Stop tacking fucking goal kicks short to players in the 6 yard box. Every team presses us now, all this does is get us in bother.

Finally, as a manager, I would stop going in to press conferences and lauding praise and respect on any other team or player in our league and I certainly wouldnt be happy with a point away at any ground. Back to siege mentality mode.
 
Not popular with a lot on here I know but I would have told one of our players to cement Callum MacGregor in the first minute of the game. We can talk tactics all day but you have to set the tone in these games.

After that I would go with what Imfeelingit said regarding flooding the midfield, the last thing I would do is sit back against them.
 
To win an old firm, or any game actually, you need to control the midfield. Gerrard had this to a tee.

Every single player knew their job in the system inside out. Can we say the same about Gio's 'system' (whatever that might be)?
 
Aribo is the best player in country as a number 10 but we can't get the ball to him often enough. The two midfielders behind him have struggled to take command of any league game since we returned.

Hopefully Jack and Ramsey would be able to do that, but if we don't have two midfielders fit and good enough to control that area then sadly I think we need to revert back to getting three in there and push Joe out wider to the right.
 
punksnotdead said:
Not popular with a lot on here I know but I would have told one of our players to cement Callum MacGregor in the first minute of the game. We can talk tactics all day but you have to set the tone in these games.

After that I would go with what Imfeelingit said regarding flooding the midfield, the last thing I would do is sit back against them.
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rule 1 in OF put a marker down, it doesnt have to be a foul, but there needs to be some sorta physical check to one of their players to let them know were up for the fight. set the tone.
 
SpikeRFC said:
Gio set us out to defend in that first half. It was obviously a disaster, but I think everyone could have predicted that.

This Rangers team are not good at sitting back and trying to defend. Our strength is pressing teams high up the pitch and winning possession there. It's the simple rule in football, that you have to play to your strengths.

There was one single occasion in the first half that we did press them high and they conceded a throw in, in their last third.

That Celtic team are an accident waiting to happen when they're pressed high up. We have ideal players to have carried out a high press with Kent ,Sakala, Dailla, Arfield, Aribo,etc.

We allowed them to play to their strengths in having time on the ball and using their wide men without any pressure on them.

Your average bottom half SPL team would have been better organised defensively than us.

The management needed to be brave with their tactics, and the players also needed to be brave and up for it.

If we had started that game with high energy and not giving them any time on the ball, it would have put a lot of confidence throughout our whole team. But because of the negative tactics, it had the exact opposite effect on our players.
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Spot on. Gio in trying to sit in from the off, played to our weakness, and not our strength. We shipped 3 goals just days before to Ross County. Its bizarre to think we wouldn't concede the same or more at the Piggery. What annoys me is that they are utter dugmeat, but we made them look like Bayern in their pomp. Sit in like that against anyone, and you'll be annihilated, and that's exactly what happened.
 
Bluebeard said:
Gios selection could have worked if the players were set to attack but they weren’t. So we ended up in a halfway house of having attacking players on the pitch but trying to play defensively. A recipe for the disaster we witnessed.

Your team would’ve fared better and was far more sensible and workable if the plan was to keep it to 0-0 or even 1-0 to them then after an hour bring on Sakala and kent.

What concerns me is you and I could see this and every Joe bloggs on the street knew it but our management team didn’t.
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You know as well as I do that it’s not as simplistic as that.
If GvB had played Lundstram.
If he had played Jack.
If he had played Davis.
If he had dropped Kent.
If he had dropped Diallo.
If he had picked Balogun.
Put all these to FF on Wednesday morning, post my team, post my thinking and I’d have been battered from over to KDS.
 
You either have to press them high as hell and hope to knick it or sit in tight as hell and dont let them have much space .. we did half and half of both.

poorly pressed them high and gave them a tonne of space because of it.

Personally I would have pressed them high from the off, fullbacks instructed to stay touch tight to the wingers and also would have had two sitting mids instead of 1.

What I would have drilled into the players is intensity, match them stride for stride the first 10 mins.

I said this all before the game as did the majority of fans which makes it all the more baffling.
 
tazzabear said:
You know as well as I do that it’s not as simplistic as that.
If GvB had played Lundstram.
If he had played Jack.
If he had played Davis.
If he had dropped Kent.
If he had dropped Diallo.
If he had picked Balogun.
Put all these to FF on Wednesday morning, post my team, post my thinking and I’d have been battered from over to KDS.
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Not from me you wouldn’t. Kent and Kamara have been dialling it in all season and simply don’t deserve a starting slot. I was astonished Balogun didn’t start. But I hear you in terms of the majority wouldn’t have wanted it. But I think that’s now changed and people have their eyes wide open after the last three calamitous games.
 
A Class Above said:
There has been a lot of tactics threads over the last couple of days which would suggest there was many flaws in the way we set up on Wednesday.

What I would like to know is what would you do or what would you have done tactically?

You can use hindsight, or it could be something you would have done, or would do for a game at parkhead. Three for me are:

1. This is possibly a hindsight one but I would have possibly done what Lennon did against us when they beat us at Ibrox on 1.9.19 and hit it in to the corner straight from kick off. That day we as fans were up for it and I remember we didn’t get out our half for 5 minutes or so after they did this. It took the sting out the crowd and for me made a bit of a difference that day.

2. Not hindsight - we knew Celtic were going to approach the game with an intensity that would be difficult to match in the first half however they would run out of steam in the second half. I think we should have matched the intensity in the first 10 minutes and pressed them the way they pressed us. Also show more desire in how we closed down or went into the tackles etc. This would allow them to realise they were in a game. The shitebag approach played right into their hands.

3. Not hindsight - any one who has watched Scottish football knows their main threat is down the sides and they try to leave the wingers 1 on 1 with the fullbacks through the inverted full backs that they play with. Knowing this I think it was important to trust our full backs but reinforce to them that there is a lot of responsibility on their shoulders. They need to get tight and cannot be beaten. Instead we seemed to let their wingers have free reign and did not change it when everyone could see it wasn’t working after 10 minutes.
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Play a high press,their defenders were allowed to amble up to the halfway then pick a pass,they were practically into our last third before any tackles went in but we did nothing to stop their wingers playing passes round an through us.
Our full backs need our wingers to drop back and provide protection and our midfield needs to block the channels that their runners were utilising.
We also need to get the ball forward more quickly.
To go back to my original point force their defenders to play the long ball and this would negate most of their game plan.
 
Great question OP

1 based on hindsight - I would have a one to one meeting with every player that regularly gets minutes on the pitch. I would give them an out - "do you want to be here, if not, why not?" if they don't , try to resolve it, If it can't resolved. Drop until sold in the summer.

Hindsight from last few games - speak to defence and midfield figure out why the balls not getting up the pitch. Work hard on this is training, Encourage them to try more risky forward passes to creat chances.

Sure starters going forward - Jack , Alfie , Aribo, Arfield
 
It wasn’t all about attitude for goodness sake.

CCV was getting all the time in the world to pick a pass and started most of their attacks, we should have had a man more or less on top of him. Gerrard diamond formation would have done that.

Kent was positioned in no man’s land the whole first half which allowed one pass from CCV to take Kent out of the game and leave Juranovic and Abada 2 on 1 against Barisic. To not address this in game was inexplicable and gifted them the 2nd goal.

The midfielders repeatedly not tracking runs and getting goal side just made things worse.
 
On Wednesday it was not so much tactics that let us down, although they did have a bearing e.g. standing off them and letting them have as much of the ball and space as they wanted, but team selection and players out of their natural position coupled with a couple of shocking performances even in their natural position (Barasic was painful to watch). At least GVB recognised he'd got it all wrong by making these changes at half time, I know some will say the mutants took their foot of the gas, but the Rangers of the second half wouldn’t have went in 3-0 down after the first half.
 
Two wingers hogging the touchline doing nothing, miles from the centre forward.

If the midfield don’t run on, we have no creation or bodies in the box. If they do they leave big gaps behind.

Would love to go twin strikers and get it to their feet quickly from the back.
 
Could one of the tactical geniuses explain this to me,now I’m from the jock Wallace era,right we win the ball back in our half we then spend about 3mins passing it back and forth to anyone in our own half then goldson launches diagonal to one of the flanks thus allowing the opposition all the time in the world to get thier shape back..someone anyone cheers?
 
Tactics don't matter when we make basic errors like not tracking runners and not pressing the opposing players to win the ball back. Added to that the lack of intensity we have shown all season, not just from Gio's time, shows some players either think they are above working hard or simply not good as we and they think they are.
 
Centralbear said:
Last season we lost few goals but I don't think it was because our defenders, who had gifted goals in previous seasons, all of a sudden became brilliant.

I think it was more of as you suggest, push up twenty yards, press your opponents high up the pitch and win the ball back off them and play in their half.

The system played by the tims, probably even more aggressively, similarly keeps teams from exposing their defence which when under pressure doesn't always look too clever.

It's my biggest frustration all season that we haven't played this high pressing game this season, that and Wednesday where we just failed to even to attempt to match them.
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The higher up the pitch you win the ball the easier it is to score.
 
Ultimately nobody on this forum has a clue. Can only give opinions.

For me we would have failed with any tactics had we fielded the likes of Barasic and others who injected huge amounts of anxiety into our play. That kind of stuff ripples through the side and gets everyone in their own heads.
 
Gio has played in a WC Final, CL Final and won big time league medals.

I believe he has the knowledge to change things immediately.

We will find out against Hearts soon enough.
 
If I came to the club and assessed the players and their strengths, researched the style and manner they were successful, I would play to their strengths and not exploit their weakness until I brought in my own staff to implement my system. To me, it seems like he's trying to fit square pegs into round holes. A blind man can see that Tav and Borna are not great defenders but supplement this by being very effective attacking. Our wider players are now isolated out on the wings with no connection to the full backs, big gaps in midfield now causing an overload to kamara.
 
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