Conceding early goals, the cause?

AriseSirWalter

AriseSirWalter

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Tell me what's causing us to concede so many early goals without mentioning mentality/concentration?

Is it structural, missing big Fil....?

Or is it just a mentality thing? Are the players struggling to get up for games that they think we're going to win regardless.

The team dealt with it well today but there was a point at 0-1 when they had all the men behind the ball I thought 'making it difficult again'.
 
No idea the cause but it has to stop . We can get away with it against the likes of county but look what happens when we do it against slightly better teams like sheep and brondby . We drop points
 
I remember there was a period in walters third season second time round as manager where we always seemed to concede the first goal. We sorted it out and won the league quite comfortably
 
I honestly think it's as simple as teams know they can't live with us for 90 minutes so come shoot their load for 20 minutes and hope to get something to hold onto.

It would be interesting to see how many goals we concede after say 30 minutes
 
I think we maybe have to start a bit cautious and keep our defensive shape for maybe 15 minutes to get a foothold in the game and get our passing right. Not the biggest fan of Goldson but it can't be easy trying to organise the defence/midfield where your full backs disappear up the pitch when you get the ball, maybe they could stay at home till we settle, if the fans can handle the slow start that is!
 
Intensity and effort. Seems that the management team are frequently having to rocket them at half time, make triple substitutions etc. We're almost impossible to live with when we come out and hunt the opposition down in packs.
 
sandbankbear said:
I remember there was a period in walters third season second time round as manager where we always seemed to concede the first goal. We sorted it out and won the league quite comfortably
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I’m certain that run was ended by going 2-0 down at Pittodrie and winning. I remember at the time thinking we were strong enough to turn it around as we’d done so quite recently. I might be wrong and it’s a false memory but like you can remember something like that.
 
Lots of analysis about our slow starts conveniently ignoring the goal in Copenhagen came just before half time!
 
the upsetter said:
Simple.
Most times it's been down to slack passing.
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League games this season where we've conceded first (even if not early) - here is a short analysis of the goals conceded.

Dundee Utd (A) - (3:00) - 64th minute - Kent gives the ball away trying a through ball to Morelos. Davis tries to block the pass through and it deflects into the scorer's path. Lundstram, Tav, Goldson do not get near the scorer and he takes his chance.

St Johnstone (A) - (0:55) - 51st minute - Long ball, Helander done for pace by O'Halloran who turns inside and takes his chance.

Hibs (H) - (0:05) - 8th minute - Barisic doesn't stop the cross, finds Nisbet. Patterson and more so Goldson and Lundstram give him space to guide the header back across McGregor.

St Mirren (A) - (0:00) - 4th minute - Lundstram loses the 50/50, giving the St Boooo player space which he uses to set himself for a wonderstrike.

Aberdeen (H) - (0:29) - 8th minute - Goldson passes to Lundstram who loses the ball on the edge of the box. The ball comes back out to the midfielder who plays a ball through between Tav and Goldson to Hedges. McGregor tries to stop his cross but he was a bit slow getting out and gets it onto Ramirez' head.

Motherwell (A) - (0:15) - 13th minute - From the corner, Balogun completely lost his man who got the initial header down to McGregor's left, again he was slow in getting in position to stop Mugabi's strike. Goldson also didn't react to Mugabi and let him in, but may have been reading it as McGregor putting the ball out of play for a corner.

Haven't seen a clip of the goal today yet due to work but I believe Lundstram again was culpable.

In all cases, there are some repeat offenders (CG, JL) whose concentration levels have to be questioned - they have either given the ball away with a slack pass, lost a challenge, lost their man who scored or not read the game well enough. Also, the opposition scorer has taken their chance when given it.

In many of these cases we have had the chance to score first in the game and not taken it. Maybe there is an element of too much emphasis on scoring first, midfielders forgetting the defensive organisation while pushing for a goal. I think we do all like it when the team goes out and tries to blow teams away but not at the expense of avoidable goals conceded which make it difficult for ourselves.

That said, although we are making it more difficult, the team's resilience to take points when we do go behind is good. We have only dropped 4 points and taken 17 from 21 points in the 7 matches we've gone behind.

Strangely, in the 6 league games where we scored first - Livi (H), Ross Co (A), Celtic (H), Motherwell (H), Dundee (A) Hearts (H) - we have also dropped 4 points, all of which were at home. Go figure.
 
LetsGo said:
League games this season where we've conceded first (even if not early) - here is a short analysis of the goals conceded.

Dundee Utd (A) - (3:00) - 64th minute - Kent gives the ball away trying a through ball to Morelos. Davis tries to block the pass through and it deflects into the scorer's path. Lundstram, Tav, Goldson do not get near the scorer and he takes his chance.

St Johnstone (A) - (0:55) - 51st minute - Long ball, Helander done for pace by O'Halloran who turns inside and takes his chance.

Hibs (H) - (0:05) - 8th minute - Barisic doesn't stop the cross, finds Nisbet. Patterson and more so Goldson and Lundstram give him space to guide the header back across McGregor.

St Mirren (A) - (0:00) - 4th minute - Lundstram loses the 50/50, giving the St Boooo player space which he uses to set himself for a wonderstrike.

Aberdeen (H) - (0:29) - 8th minute - Goldson passes to Lundstram who loses the ball on the edge of the box. The ball comes back out to the midfielder who plays a ball through between Tav and Goldson to Hedges. McGregor tries to stop his cross but he was a bit slow getting out and gets it onto Ramirez' head.

Motherwell (A) - (0:15) - 13th minute - From the corner, Balogun completely lost his man who got the initial header down to McGregor's left, again he was slow in getting in position to stop Mugabi's strike. Goldson also didn't react to Mugabi and let him in, but may have been reading it as McGregor putting the ball out of play for a corner.

Haven't seen a clip of the goal today yet due to work but I believe Lundstram again was culpable.

In all cases, there are some repeat offenders (CG, JL) whose concentration levels have to be questioned - they have either given the ball away with a slack pass, lost a challenge, lost their man who scored or not read the game well enough. Also, the opposition scorer has taken their chance when given it.

In many of these cases we have had the chance to score first in the game and not taken it. Maybe there is an element of too much emphasis on scoring first, midfielders forgetting the defensive organisation while pushing for a goal. I think we do all like it when the team goes out and tries to blow teams away but not at the expense of avoidable goals conceded which make it difficult for ourselves.

That said, although we are making it more difficult, the team's resilience to take points when we do go behind is good. We have only dropped 4 points and taken 17 from 21 points in the 7 matches we've gone behind.

Strangely, in the 6 league games where we scored first - Livi (H), Ross Co (A), Celtic (H), Motherwell (H), Dundee (A) Hearts (H) - we have also dropped 4 points, all of which were at home. Go figure.
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I missed first half today, but weirdly enough when I saw we had lost first goal again and saw it was Lundstram who was lacking.
It's a recurring theme.

Jack is back now, I don't think JL has the concentration levels to play defensive midfielder for us.
Jack, Kamara or Davis will always start.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Tell me what's causing us to concede so many early goals without mentioning mentality/concentration?

Is it structural, missing big Fil....?

Or is it just a mentality thing? Are the players struggling to get up for games that they think we're going to win regardless.

The team dealt with it well today but there was a point at 0-1 when they had all the men behind the ball I thought 'making it difficult again'.
Click to expand...
Too many different types of goal to cover with any one reason.
 
LetsGo said:
League games this season where we've conceded first (even if not early) - here is a short analysis of the goals conceded.

Dundee Utd (A) - (3:00) - 64th minute - Kent gives the ball away trying a through ball to Morelos. Davis tries to block the pass through and it deflects into the scorer's path. Lundstram, Tav, Goldson do not get near the scorer and he takes his chance.

St Johnstone (A) - (0:55) - 51st minute - Long ball, Helander done for pace by O'Halloran who turns inside and takes his chance.

Hibs (H) - (0:05) - 8th minute - Barisic doesn't stop the cross, finds Nisbet. Patterson and more so Goldson and Lundstram give him space to guide the header back across McGregor.

St Mirren (A) - (0:00) - 4th minute - Lundstram loses the 50/50, giving the St Boooo player space which he uses to set himself for a wonderstrike.

Aberdeen (H) - (0:29) - 8th minute - Goldson passes to Lundstram who loses the ball on the edge of the box. The ball comes back out to the midfielder who plays a ball through between Tav and Goldson to Hedges. McGregor tries to stop his cross but he was a bit slow getting out and gets it onto Ramirez' head.

Motherwell (A) - (0:15) - 13th minute - From the corner, Balogun completely lost his man who got the initial header down to McGregor's left, again he was slow in getting in position to stop Mugabi's strike. Goldson also didn't react to Mugabi and let him in, but may have been reading it as McGregor putting the ball out of play for a corner.

Haven't seen a clip of the goal today yet due to work but I believe Lundstram again was culpable.

In all cases, there are some repeat offenders (CG, JL) whose concentration levels have to be questioned - they have either given the ball away with a slack pass, lost a challenge, lost their man who scored or not read the game well enough. Also, the opposition scorer has taken their chance when given it.

In many of these cases we have had the chance to score first in the game and not taken it. Maybe there is an element of too much emphasis on scoring first, midfielders forgetting the defensive organisation while pushing for a goal. I think we do all like it when the team goes out and tries to blow teams away but not at the expense of avoidable goals conceded which make it difficult for ourselves.

That said, although we are making it more difficult, the team's resilience to take points when we do go behind is good. We have only dropped 4 points and taken 17 from 21 points in the 7 matches we've gone behind.

Strangely, in the 6 league games where we scored first - Livi (H), Ross Co (A), Celtic (H), Motherwell (H), Dundee (A) Hearts (H) - we have also dropped 4 points, all of which were at home. Go figure.
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You’ll be good enough to come on and apologise for your error?
 
Combination of a few things. The full backs aren’t great defensively, the centre half’s are error prone and the midfield aren’t protecting them.

There’s a vulnerability about us that wasn’t there last season.
 
All of the above but I'd say we've been slightly unfortunate with the opposition actually finishing their first chance in most games.

I think last year, we didn't get punished for mistakes
 
LetsGo said:
League games this season where we've conceded first (even if not early) - here is a short analysis of the goals conceded.

Dundee Utd (A) - (3:00) - 64th minute - Kent gives the ball away trying a through ball to Morelos. Davis tries to block the pass through and it deflects into the scorer's path. Lundstram, Tav, Goldson do not get near the scorer and he takes his chance.

St Johnstone (A) - (0:55) - 51st minute - Long ball, Helander done for pace by O'Halloran who turns inside and takes his chance.

Hibs (H) - (0:05) - 8th minute - Barisic doesn't stop the cross, finds Nisbet. Patterson and more so Goldson and Lundstram give him space to guide the header back across McGregor.

St Mirren (A) - (0:00) - 4th minute - Lundstram loses the 50/50, giving the St Boooo player space which he uses to set himself for a wonderstrike.

Aberdeen (H) - (0:29) - 8th minute - Goldson passes to Lundstram who loses the ball on the edge of the box. The ball comes back out to the midfielder who plays a ball through between Tav and Goldson to Hedges. McGregor tries to stop his cross but he was a bit slow getting out and gets it onto Ramirez' head.

Motherwell (A) - (0:15) - 13th minute - From the corner, Balogun completely lost his man who got the initial header down to McGregor's left, again he was slow in getting in position to stop Mugabi's strike. Goldson also didn't react to Mugabi and let him in, but may have been reading it as McGregor putting the ball out of play for a corner.

Haven't seen a clip of the goal today yet due to work but I believe Lundstram again was culpable.

In all cases, there are some repeat offenders (CG, JL) whose concentration levels have to be questioned - they have either given the ball away with a slack pass, lost a challenge, lost their man who scored or not read the game well enough. Also, the opposition scorer has taken their chance when given it.

In many of these cases we have had the chance to score first in the game and not taken it. Maybe there is an element of too much emphasis on scoring first, midfielders forgetting the defensive organisation while pushing for a goal. I think we do all like it when the team goes out and tries to blow teams away but not at the expense of avoidable goals conceded which make it difficult for ourselves.

That said, although we are making it more difficult, the team's resilience to take points when we do go behind is good. We have only dropped 4 points and taken 17 from 21 points in the 7 matches we've gone behind.

Strangely, in the 6 league games where we scored first - Livi (H), Ross Co (A), Celtic (H), Motherwell (H), Dundee (A) Hearts (H) - we have also dropped 4 points, all of which were at home. Go figure.
Click to expand...
The St Mirren goal JL could have been stronger, but it stemmed from Davis letting the ball bounce in the middle of the pitch then Tav (?) playing a poor ball into JL.

I'd say the only goal that wasn't down to an utter comical mistake was the St Johnstone one. O'Halloran against a high line will always get in behind at some point, especially against someone as slow as Helander.
 
LetsGo said:
League games this season where we've conceded first (even if not early) - here is a short analysis of the goals conceded.

Dundee Utd (A) - (3:00) - 64th minute - Kent gives the ball away trying a through ball to Morelos. Davis tries to block the pass through and it deflects into the scorer's path. Lundstram, Tav, Goldson do not get near the scorer and he takes his chance.

St Johnstone (A) - (0:55) - 51st minute - Long ball, Helander done for pace by O'Halloran who turns inside and takes his chance.

Hibs (H) - (0:05) - 8th minute - Barisic doesn't stop the cross, finds Nisbet. Patterson and more so Goldson and Lundstram give him space to guide the header back across McGregor.

St Mirren (A) - (0:00) - 4th minute - Lundstram loses the 50/50, giving the St Boooo player space which he uses to set himself for a wonderstrike.

Aberdeen (H) - (0:29) - 8th minute - Goldson passes to Lundstram who loses the ball on the edge of the box. The ball comes back out to the midfielder who plays a ball through between Tav and Goldson to Hedges. McGregor tries to stop his cross but he was a bit slow getting out and gets it onto Ramirez' head.

Motherwell (A) - (0:15) - 13th minute - From the corner, Balogun completely lost his man who got the initial header down to McGregor's left, again he was slow in getting in position to stop Mugabi's strike. Goldson also didn't react to Mugabi and let him in, but may have been reading it as McGregor putting the ball out of play for a corner.

Haven't seen a clip of the goal today yet due to work but I believe Lundstram again was culpable.

In all cases, there are some repeat offenders (CG, JL) whose concentration levels have to be questioned - they have either given the ball away with a slack pass, lost a challenge, lost their man who scored or not read the game well enough. Also, the opposition scorer has taken their chance when given it.

In many of these cases we have had the chance to score first in the game and not taken it. Maybe there is an element of too much emphasis on scoring first, midfielders forgetting the defensive organisation while pushing for a goal. I think we do all like it when the team goes out and tries to blow teams away but not at the expense of avoidable goals conceded which make it difficult for ourselves.

That said, although we are making it more difficult, the team's resilience to take points when we do go behind is good. We have only dropped 4 points and taken 17 from 21 points in the 7 matches we've gone behind.

Strangely, in the 6 league games where we scored first - Livi (H), Ross Co (A), Celtic (H), Motherwell (H), Dundee (A) Hearts (H) - we have also dropped 4 points, all of which were at home. Go figure.
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Good analysis. The Motherwell corner came from Tav & Goldson dithering as to whose ball it was and it went out for a corner from which the goal came from.

The times we dropped 4 points at home against Motherwell and Hearts, there seemed to be a mentality that 1 goal was enough. In both those games, the irony was that we played some great football in the first half, but fell away in the second and became slow and didn’t press the way we did yesterday. However, once the fourth goal went in against County we seemed to accept that was that and reverted to a slower game, especially after Kent went off. This enabled County, who played well, to start pressing us higher up the pitch, which led to their second.

What to do? Lundstram seems slow and lethargic. Hagi needs to do more defensive work from midfield and the back CH’s need 1 more to cover them in front.That’s what Jack usually did. Liverpool, yesterday, against the Hammers, were repeatedly caught out by a long ball when they were pressing similar style to us. It is a weakness of 4-3-3.
 
We are just trolling the rest of Scottish football.

Showing how mighty we are by allowing them a head start, the ultimate show of hubris.

Imagine the excitement on their buses coming home from Dundee yesterday when we went a goal behind, only for them to being back 4 points behind us again by the time they got off the bus.
 
I think the players are looking for a challenge.

Winning games too easy last season so this season they’ve thought “fvck it let’s give teams a goal of a start”
 
We play football that asks a lot of players, as referenced in the post above, we constantly try and ask teams on to us to take them out shape to create chances for US, the deeper issue this year is our passing not being as sharp it was last year rather than genuine issues with the actual defence.
 
LyonGer said:
I missed first half today, but weirdly enough when I saw we had lost first goal again and saw it was Lundstram who was lacking.
It's a recurring theme.

Jack is back now, I don't think JL has the concentration levels to play defensive midfielder for us.
Jack, Kamara or Davis will always start.
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Except that it was Hagi
 
John MacKenzie said:
Today crap pass from Hagi and a blind linesman and in others a couple more crap passes from Tav/Connor and each one causing Lundstrom grief on here.
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Hilarious isn't it

Obviously made some mistakes as well. But some guys hate him, so gets the blame for other's errors to.

Disgraceful behaviour really.

And many of them blind to their own pig eyes bias there.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Tell me what's causing us to concede so many early goals without mentioning mentality/concentration?

Is it structural, missing big Fil....?

Or is it just a mentality thing? Are the players struggling to get up for games that they think we're going to win regardless.

The team dealt with it well today but there was a point at 0-1 when they had all the men behind the ball I thought 'making it difficult again'.
Click to expand...
Last 4 games we’ve lost the first goal whilst we were in control of the ball.
 
Take yesterday - poor ball from Hagi, miscontrol from Lundstarm then a failure of the assistant to put his flag up.

It's not necessarily one issue that causes us to concede a goal.
 
Maybe the other teams know they canny play the game on good level for full 90 minutes, so they have to strike first to try to make our game plan a mess?

As much as I like the fact e have grown balls to take these games back to our hands, I really hate the other fact that we have conceded as many goals in 13 league games as we did whole last season.
 
John Lundstram more often than not is a key contributor, mis controlling a ball and then not even trying a leg to get close to his man and just sauntering back not a care in the world.

It's the lack of effort or drive that frustrates me, he is OK technically and seemingly does try to win the ball back when he's closer the opposition box for a shot of glory. He should be busting his balls to get back, instead of a casual jog back especially when he's made a pigs ear of controlling a ball our other midfielders would do better with.
 
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If you remember right, we tended to start games pretty slow last year, maybe it’s a change of emphasis trying to come out on the front foot and leaving gaps and leading to errors

There is also a huge stroke of luck involved, I think I seen a thread yesterday that had us losing 9 goals from 13 shots
 
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