Red Star Banner at Half Time

ursus_major said:
Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere, apologies if so, but the half time banner appeared to list wars with US involvement, or am I mistaken? If so was it intended to be pro Russia, and will they get fined?
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How can they be fined? Politicization of football is actively encouraged recently.
Surely anything goes now
 
Arkanoid said:
So even with condemning Russia and backing the UN resolution (albeit without sanctions) despite NATO bombing in 99 then what actually is the point of the banner if your countrymen don’t actually believe it?
The last line would have sufficed and the rest drags the association of Red Star as being pro Russia by default of being anti USA/NATO.
No one has a time machine to right wrongs, what can be achieved is righting a current wrong
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We still suffer consequences because of the bombings. Both economically(we're a very poor country) and territorially(Kosovo). We are sick and tired of USA being portrayed as heroes, whereas they are probably one of the worst if not the worst country in the world.
 
Everythings Americas fault. Id laugh if it wasnt so utterly tragic. A country, in which one of its former presidents isnt even allowed a twitter account, is the problem in society. While Russia with a power hungry, Soviet era fantasist dictator. Who controls every aspect of domestic life, right down to the point that their citizens dont even know they are in an actual war. Are good guys, who were provoked.

Damn you NATO :))
 
SerbianLad said:
It was actually the other way around. If you knew the history of Kosovo & Metohija region you would know.
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The posters first link to Suva Reka says otherwise
You don’t seem open to having any dirty marks on your history, we’ve got loads of them and as I said on a separate issue in the main we own our shit and I can assure you we’ve done far far worse than anything that is currently happened or Serbs were responsible for.
It’s Nationalistic and intrinsic and I think this is why you will find clashes on here politically mate.
Also worth noting we are all in the main taking our history lesson from bed sheets in a shithole stadium with a Clyde tunnel so I wouldn’t be overly concerned about any of our points of view / certainly not mine anyway :)):))
 
Arkanoid said:
The posters first link to Suva Reka says otherwise
You don’t seem open to having any dirty marks on your history, we’ve got loads of them and as I said on a separate issue in the main we own our shit and I can assure you we’ve done far far worse than anything that is currently happened or Serbs were responsible for.
It’s Nationalistic and intrinsic and I think this is why you will find clashes on here politically mate.
Also worth noting we are all in the main taking our history lesson from bed sheets in a shithole stadium with a Clyde tunnel so I wouldn’t be overly concerned about any of our points of view / certainly not mine anyway :)):))
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We have done some dirty things in the past. I've mentioned Srebrenics for example. Kosovo is different mate.
 
Hurricane Run said:
Everythings Americas fault. Id laugh if it wasnt so utterly tragic. A country, in which one of its former presidents isnt even allowed a twitter account, is the problem in society. While Russia with a power hungry, Soviet era fantasist dictator. Who controls every aspect of domestic life, right down to the point that their citizens dont even know they are in an actual war. Are good guys, who were provoked.

Damn you NATO :))
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I never said Russia is good. I'm saying both do same sh*t.
 
Worked with a Serbian years ago and he was very anti-USA. Seems common in that country. Think he supported Partizan so not something specific to Red Star.
 
Hurricane Run said:
Everythings Americas fault. Id laugh if it wasnt so utterly tragic. A country, in which one of its former presidents isnt even allowed a twitter account, is the problem in society. While Russia with a power hungry, Soviet era fantasist dictator. Who controls every aspect of domestic life, right down to the point that their citizens dont even know they are in an actual war. Are good guys, who were provoked.

Damn you NATO :))
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Everything is not America's fault, however, the list of wars, invasions, proxy wars etc on the banners are factual and beyond debate.
Which other country, say in the last 150 years has committed even half of that list? None.
It is a country continually at war, allegedly to promote peace and democracy, but only when the result can be self enrichment
 
SerbianLad said:
I never said Russia is good. I'm saying both do same sh*t.
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Do they? They both wield there power and influence with reckless abandon at times, so i agree with that. But i dont ever remember America having a war criminal lead them. Maybe your politics can excuse and warp what you are witnessing in Ukraine, but mine cant. Im capable of independently condemning either side, without the need for "whataboutery".
 
Hurricane Run said:
Do they? They both wield there power and influence with reckless abandon at times, so i agree with that. But i dont ever remember America having a war criminal lead them. Maybe your politics can excuse and warp what you are witnessing in Ukraine, but mine cant. Im capable of independently condemning either side, without the need for "whataboutery".
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Is imprisoning folk on a foreign land for 20 years without charge or trial a war crime?
If so, USA, guilty
 
Mustang mad said:
Everything is not America's fault, however, the list of wars, invasions, proxy wars etc on the banners are factual and beyond debate.
Which other country, say in the last 150 years has committed even half of that list? None.
It is a country continually at war, allegedly to promote peace and democracy, but only when the result can be self enrichment
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Eh? Russia for a start. The 2 countries are in a never ending struggle to assert political influence. Why cant you criticise Russia, without bringing the US to the table?

Its embarrassing
 
Hurricane Run said:
Do they? They both wield there power and influence with reckless abandon at times, so i agree with that. But i dont ever remember America having a war criminal lead them. Maybe your politics can excuse and warp what you are witnessing in Ukraine, but mine cant. Im capable of independently condemning either side, without the need for "whataboutery".
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We're not excusing it though. We've condemned it. When Clinton and Biden bomb Serbia there aren't war criminals, when Putin does it he is. They are all scum, russians and american alike.
 
Hurricane Run said:
Eh? Russia for a start. The 2 countries are in a never ending struggle to assert political influence. Why cant you criticise Russia, without bringing the US to the table?

Its embarrassing
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I never mentioned Russia?
Yeah, Russia are no angels either. They have not quite reached expiditiary levels of USA though.
Let's just say, I am a fan of neither
 
Mustang mad said:
I never mentioned Russia?
Yeah, Russia are no angels either. They have not quite reached expiditiary levels of USA though.
Let's just say, I am a fan of neither
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You asked which country was on a par with the US. I answered Russia. You think so? You might want to research Russias history the last century. They are the Ying to Americas yang. Neither side have covered themselves in glory, but in this instance, Russia are the aggresors and should be condemned independently without dragging Amerca in because of your political beliefs.
 
SerbianLad said:
We're not excusing it though. We've condemned it. When Clinton and Biden bomb Serbia there aren't war criminals, when Putin does it he is. They are all scum, russians and american alike.
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Your country were commiting atrocities on a scale that hadnt been seen since ww2. You think you should have been left to get on with it?

No one on here would assert that Amercia are angels, but Putin is the aggresor here. Dragging America into the conversation just dilutes what should be unanimous condemnation and validates Putins crimes.
 
Hurricane Run said:
Your country were commiting atrocities on a scale that hadnt been seen since ww2. You think you should have been left to get on with it?

No one on here would assert that Amercia are angels, but Putin is the aggresor here. Dragging America into the conversation just dilutes what should be unanimous condemnation and validates Putins crimes.
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If you're talking about Kosovo,then you don't know what you are talking about. You only know what media serves you with. American propaganda made sure that everyone thinks we deserved that, even though United Nations didn't approve of that military action.

And nobody is saying that what is happening in Ukraine now is ok. War is never the answer
 
Maybe the quote from Otto should be expanded to include a Follow Follow flame war.....

“One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans.”– Otto von Bismarck (1888)

No one came out of the Serbia/Croatia/Kosovo 'dispute/special operation' with clean hands or a clear conscience, well apart from James Blunt obviously, it was the rest of us who had to suffer that one.
 
SerbianLad said:
What you're on about mate. We did far less bad things throughout history than most countries. Germany, USA and indeed the UK(aborigines, american indians, black slaves,etc) giving lectures about peace must be an even bigger laugh.
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Jesus Christ, where to start.
The West evolves, and the freedom of speech and democracy allows us to question our leaders and historical actions, acknowledge our many mistakes and try to learn from them, make reparation.
That you and others on here are trying to compare the authoritarian and propagandist Putin's current actions with those of the West, fighting for our freedoms beggars belief.
The oppressed Russian people deserve better from us, let alone the completely innocent Ukrainians.
 
SerbianLad said:
If you're talking about Kosovo,then you don't know what you are talking about. You only know what media serves you with. American propaganda made sure that everyone thinks we deserved that, even though United Nations didn't approve of that military action.

And nobody is saying that what is happening in Ukraine now is ok. War is never the answer
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So it was the media that made up Serbias ethnic cleansings, mass exterminations and systemic rapes then? You learn something new everyday, i suppose.

Your last paragraph is spot on, which is why diverting focus from Putin and deliberately muddying the waters is the wrong approach. Politics should never dictate morality.

In this instance Russia, and Russia alone are to blame.
 
DC_Bear said:
Jesus Christ, where to start.
The West evolves, and the freedom of speech and democracy allows us to question our leaders and historical actions, acknowledge our many mistakes and try to learn from them, make reparation.
That you and others on here are trying to compare the authoritarian and propagandist Putin's current actions with those of the West, fighting for our freedoms beggars belief.
The oppressed Russian people deserve better from us, let alone the completely innocent Ukrainians.
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I never said that Russia is blooming with democracy, that Putin is not an authoritarian,or that indeed things Russia does is okay. How has America evolved? They are still sending their troops everywhere they won't if it helps them with their political goals. Both countries are really bad, I don't care about USA's fake democracy.
 
SerbianLad said:
If you're talking about Kosovo,then you don't know what you are talking about. You only know what media serves you with. American propaganda made sure that everyone thinks we deserved that, even though United Nations didn't approve of that military action.

And nobody is saying that what is happening in Ukraine now is ok. War is never the answer
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Ah ok, so all the utterly despicable things Serbia did in the 90s are all propganda, and only Serbians know the truth of what happens in the world. The rest of us are all in the dark.
 
Hurricane Run said:
So it was the media that made up Serbias ethnic cleansings, mass exterminations and systemic rapes then? You learn something new everyday, i suppose.

Your last paragraph is spot on, which is why diverting focus from Putin and deliberately muddying the waters is the wrong approach. Politics should never dictate morality.

In this instance Russia, and Russia alone are to blame.
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Yeah some of those thing were completely faked/staged. And where were the atrocities Albanians did to Serbians. They were never shown.
I'm always against wars, it's hypocritical of the USA to say they are against wars though.
 
SerbianLad said:
I never said that Russia is blooming with democracy, that Putin is not an authoritarian,or that indeed things Russia does is okay. How has America evolved? They are still sending their troops everywhere they won't if it helps them with their political goals. Both countries are really bad, I don't care about USA's fake democracy.
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Think you need to to find some new news sources, and stop listening to Russian / Serbian propaganda. Your country is in bed with Putin and the Chinese, it didn't happen by accident.
 
lovenkrands72 said:
Ah ok, so all the utterly despicable things Serbia did in the 90s are all propganda, and only Serbians know the truth of what happens in the world. The rest of us are all in the dark.
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I never said that? We did some bad things(Like Srebrenica which I mentioned many times),no one is saying we didn't but no one talks about Oluja or what Albanians did and still do to our people at Kosovo.
 
SerbianLad said:
Yeah some of those thing were completely faked/staged. And where were the atrocities Albanians did to Serbians. They were never shown.
I'm always against wars, it's hypocritical of the USA to say they are against wars though.
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SerbianLad said:
I never said that? We did some bad things(Like Srebrenica which I mentioned many times),no one is saying we didn't but no one talks about Oluja or what Albanians did and still do to our people at Kosovo.
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You literally just said things were completely faked/staged.
 
DC_Bear said:
Think you need to to find some new news sources, and stop listening to Russian / Serbian propaganda. Your country is in bed with Putin and the Chinese, it didn't happen by accident.
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We have neutural and pro american tv stations here as well. I listen to all of them. I also know how much our people suffered, something I hope you'll never live to see.
 
SerbianLad said:
We have neutural and pro american tv stations here as well. I listen to all of them. I also know how much our people suffered, something I hope you'll never live to see.
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Good luck to you, the innocent civilians of your country and those of your allies in Russia and China.
I truly hope that one day you will all enjoy the same freedoms that we enjoy in our "fake democracies" that you refer to above.
 
FifeBlue said:
Spent 12 weeks in total in the former Yugoslavia (including 3 weeks in Belgrade) 2005-6 on EU and DfID funded projects aimed at building civic society, citizenship education, community capacity building projects.

How about you?
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Trained several Serbians before our operations opened up there. Spent a substantial period there between 2018-2019 assisting with the set up, across all aspects of the business. Continue to support those I trained frequently.

I found the country and people to be very deeply misunderstood. They do not pretend that they weren't involved in the conflict. I'm interested to see where your resentment eminates from?
 
DC_Bear said:
Good luck to you, the innocent civilians of your country and those of your allies in Russia and China.
I truly hope that one day you will all enjoy the same freedoms that we enjoy in our "fake democracies" that you refer to above.
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Your mind is made up so no point in me arguing with you anymore. No countries is perfect and of course we did some bad things as well. I do sincerely hope you'll never live through what we lived through during the 1999, but you can't ever understand how does it really feel when there are bombs flying around hitting bridges, hospitals, tv stations, killing innocent people. You'll never understand what it feels like to take away a part of your territory by force, also killing innocent people who didn't want to leave their homes in the process. We know how Ukrainians feel now much better than you do, and we sympathize with them, we condemned Russia and offered shelter for Ukrainians. We won't impose sanctions to Russia because of our own well-being, something you'll also never be able to understand, as you come from a much richer country.

Keep on believing everything America says, they are the paragon of virtue. Serbians killed everyone and they should have bombed us for much longer time, untill there wasn't a Serb alive.
 
So that comes across to me that they see the US conflicts as aggression but Putin going into Ukraine is somehow a peace mission?
 
DC_Bear said:
The difference being that the US wars can and have been heavily protested in the US, where people have the freedom of speech, and the power of a democratic vote.None of these freedoms apply in Putin's state.

I'd say that the US is evolving and we'll see them getting involved in less wars around the globe, albeit I wish the US and our NATO allies would intervenein Ukraine immediately.

We're fighting a war for freedom right now, so time to pick a side.
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I’m on the side of freedom and you make a good point about protests.
 
DartfordRSC said:
Trained several Serbians before our operations opened up there. Spent a substantial period there between 2018-2019 assisting with the set up, across all aspects of the business. Continue to support those I trained frequently.

I found the country and people to be very deeply misunderstood. They do not pretend that they weren't involved in the conflict. I'm interested to see where your resentment eminates from?
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If you can't work out out where my resentment comes from and (that of most non Serbs in that part of the world) then I can't help you fella.
 
SerbianLad said:
Your mind is made up so no point in me arguing with you anymore. No countries is perfect and of course we did some bad things as well. I do sincerely hope you'll never live through what we lived through during the 1999, but you can't ever understand how does it really feel when there are bombs flying around hitting bridges, hospitals, tv stations, killing innocent people. You'll never understand what it feels like to take away a part of your territory by force, also killing innocent people who didn't want to leave their homes in the process. We know how Ukrainians feel now much better than you do, and we sympathize with them, we condemned Russia and offered shelter for Ukrainians. We won't impose sanctions to Russia because of our own well-being, something you'll also never be able to understand, as you come from a much richer country.

Keep on believing everything America says, they are the paragon of virtue. Serbians killed everyone and they should have bombed us for much longer time, untill there wasn't a Serb alive.
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As stated, I have huge empathy and sympathy for the innocent civilians and the pawns made to fight in the front lines of these wars. Every decent person alive does I'm sure.
We also have nothing but contempt for the authoritarian dictators, the regimes and businessmen that support and allow them to continue.
I don't know Serbian politics, but you appear to have elected leaders that are happy to get into bed with Putin, Russia and China. You lie with dogs, you get fleas. Hopefully your country can re align with the West and conditions improve. Removing the Gazprom logo from the RSB shirt would be a tiny start.
 
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