Red Star Banner at Half Time

Coisty09 said:
They are without doubt the Celtic of the Balkans.
They applaud the ‘freedom fighters’ (Russia/IRA) against the colonialists (US/UK)
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Come on mate, not everything relates to Celtic. This post makes me think people wander around supermarkets going: 'Rice Krispies? %^*& that! They're the Celtic of cereals.' (when in fact it's probably Lucky Charms :)))

We often hear how teams are 'the Celtic' of Spain, Italy etc which is usually a load of tosh. Now we've got a generalism that seems to suggests Rangers fans should always side with colonialists?

Rangers is the football team I love. But the perceived political views of our rivals don't define every facet of my life. Otherwise I'd probably be watching Pocahontas thinking 'i hope these pesky native Americans get wiped out here as they are 'the Celtic' of this movie. Go colonialists!'

Sorry for long post, not really allin relation to the quoted post, I just don't like everything being about bloody Celtic!
 
SerbianLad said:
A massacre or something like that.

Definition of genocide: "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such."

What happened in Srebrenica was a reaction to what they did to our people. But eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and you should never do something like that. What those people did is appalling and no one thinks we were justified to do that.

But by the definition of genocide it wasn't a genocide.
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You actually had concentration camps
 
SerbianLad said:
That wasn't really proven to be run by Serbia. Since you are really well informed about concentration camps, you have surely heard about Sisak camp, Jastrebarsko camp Jasenovac camp etc. With the first two being the only children concentration camps in Europe. Where thousands of serbs were massacred.
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You remain very selective in your historical recollection of the Yugoslav war.
Atrocities were committed on all sides, but NATO and the UN voted to enter the region to prevent an imminent 'humanitarian catastrophe', or an ethnic cleansing of your country, by your leaders.
The vast majority of countries voted in favor of this action, both NATO and at the UN.
Now you're on here comparing the US (NATO's) actions against Putin's, when nothing was happening in Ukraine. Maybe give it a rest for the night mate?
 
DC_Bear said:
You remain very selective in your historical recollection of the Yugoslav war.
Atrocities were committed on all sides, but NATO and the UN voted to enter the region to prevent an imminent 'humanitarian catastrophe', or an ethnic cleansing of your country, by your leaders.
The vast majority of countries voted in favor of this action, both NATO and at the UN.
Now you're on here comparing the US (NATO's) actions against Putin's, when nothing was happening in Ukraine. Maybe give it a rest for the night mate?
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A group of serbian extremists without the support of our government commit atrocities after the same things were done to us(it isn't a good enough reason to do it and I am appaled by what they have done.
On the other hand, let's take Croatia for example, Croatian government creates concentration camps and kills Serbs including many children.
And who does USA bomb? Croatia or Bosnia? No. Serbia-yes.

And no, the UN didn't approve the bombing, check it if you like.

P. S. I'm quarter Croatian, so my view isn't really biased. But I'm sure you know better what happened in my country.
 
DC_Bear said:
Do you agree with the comparison they're attemptng to make?
The US has undoubtedly made some grave errors historically, in order to progress their global interests, but at no time would I say they've committed an assault on an innocent and peaceful country, on a level anywhere near thiis.
The fact that Gazprom, the main funder of Putin's war machine, remains prominent on their shirt, speaks volumes for where the Serbs stand, but they've a history of supporting genocide themselves. Great that Rangers ended their exposure for this season at least.
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Oooft.

You've opened up a *massive* can of worms there, DC.
 
DC_Bear said:
Do you agree with the comparison they're attemptng to make?
The US has undoubtedly made some grave errors historically, in order to progress their global interests, but at no time would I say they've committed an assault on an innocent and peaceful country, on a level anywhere near thiis.
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Spat my juice out there ffs
 
The fuckers should have asked the UB for some advice getting a banner of The Teddy Bears,

on celebrating the greatest club in the world,

who CAME and CONQUERED!!!!!
 
DC_Bear said:
Do you agree with the comparison they're attemptng to make?
The US has undoubtedly made some grave errors historically, in order to progress their global interests, but at no time would I say they've committed an assault on an innocent and peaceful country, on a level anywhere near thiis.
The fact that Gazprom, the main funder of Putin's war machine, remains prominent on their shirt, speaks volumes for where the Serbs stand, but they've a history of supporting genocide themselves. Great that Rangers ended their exposure for
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Innocent and peaceful?, I think the Russian speaking people in the Donbas region would say otherwise
 
SerbianLad said:
Yeah that was all Serbia's doing. Not a guy from the same extremist group that killed our king Aleksandar Karadjordjevic.
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Thanks for your posts SerbianLad, it’s always good to get a different point of view. Whilst I have sympathy with the plight of Serbia, especially during WW2, there is no real moral equivalence between the west’s intervention in the former Yugoslavia and what Russia is doing now.
Gavilo Pinzip was essentially a Yugoslav rather than Serb nationalist was he not? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Also, and I will probably get flak for this, but I have a sneaking admiration for Red Star, especially after seeing them turn us over in the 1990s, the best team I have ever seen at Ibrox and I include Barca with Messi in that.
 
Geedubya said:
Nope.

Korea was a U.N. Police Action
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In much the same way as the coallition of the willing in 1991 was an 'international force'.

They, rightly or wrongly, are seen as being US led operations in line with the foreign policy goals and aims of the US.
Carsons pen said:
Peron was overthrown by the junta.. but I don't know what that has to do with nato
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The Argentine junta brought a new transitive verb into the lexicon, 'to be disappeared'. Up to 30,000 dissidents were abducted, tortured and murdered by their death squads.

Famously, a general who was in charge of one of their detention centres would sell the babies born to the raped mothers in his care. He's in jail for crimes against humanity. The CIA knew all of this in real time.

Hurricane Run said:
I do know your political beliefs on this issue. You told me all about them.

I dont think anyone, anywhere, ever, has said America are innocent. But its farcical to make them out to be the antagonists in Ukraine, which is the point the Serbs are making.
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The CIA backed a coup in 2014 and the blob/deep state have been up to all sorts in Ukraine ever since (Hunter Biden wasn't a coincidence). America has played a blinder here, bleeding Russia white using Ukraine as their proxy. That being said, I dont think there is a spook in the Pentagon that thought for a moment Putin would go all in the way he has, signing his and his country's death warrant in the process and giving the military/intelligence/industrial complex another bumper decade of never ending war and money with maximum public support, Even the Germans have committed to 2% GDP on military spending. Feck crypto, get your money into Boeing, Grumann, BAE and the usual death merchants, it is going to be a bumper few years.
 
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ursus_major said:
Thanks for your posts SerbianLad, it’s always good to get a different point of view. Whilst I have sympathy with the plight of Serbia, especially during WW2, there is no real moral equivalence between the west’s intervention in the former Yugoslavia and what Russia is doing now.
Gavilo Pinzip was essentially a Yugoslav rather than Serb nationalist was he not? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Also, and I will probably get flak for this, but I have a sneaking admiration for Red Star, especially after seeing them turn us over in the 1990s, the best team I have ever seen at Ibrox and I include Barca with Messi in that.
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Thanks for your post mate.
Yes Gavrilo Princip wasn't a Serbian per se. He was a member of an extremist organisation called Mlada Bosna(youth of Bosnia). Mlada Bosna had close ties to another extrmist organisation called Crna ruka(the black hand). Black hand organised the assassination of our King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic. Those people don't represent Serbia as a country. Also it's a bit daft to say that the assassination caused the war. War was brewing for years, this just pushed it over the edge.
That Red Star team was great, shame the war happened soon after that, they could have won more european trophies probably.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Imagine siding with Putin.

Bunch of arsewipes.
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Its complicated, the Serbo-Russian parnership goes back well over a hundred years.

They get almost all of their gas, at a discount, from Russia.

balkaninsight.com

Serbia President Hails ‘Incredible’ Gas Deal With Russia

After meeting Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Aleksandar Vucic said Russia had agreed to peg Serbia's current gas price for another six months, calling it a gesture of friendship towards his country.
balkaninsight.com balkaninsight.com

It is easy to say, from your armchair in a rich country, what the 'right thing' to do is. A bit harder when your people will starve or riot or freeze because geopolitics are against you. It isn't a binary world, ever.
 
immortal7 said:
Its complicated, the Serbo-Russian parnership goes back well over a hundred years.

They get almost all of their gas, at a discount, from Russia.

balkaninsight.com

Serbia President Hails ‘Incredible’ Gas Deal With Russia

After meeting Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Aleksandar Vucic said Russia had agreed to peg Serbia's current gas price for another six months, calling it a gesture of friendship towards his country.
balkaninsight.com balkaninsight.com

It is easy to say, from your armchair in a rich country, what the 'right thing' to do is. A bit harder when your people will starve or riot or freeze because geopolitics are against you. It isn't a binary world, ever.
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They’re just a sad wee Russian puppet state.

F.uck them.
 
rangersno11 said:
This has been a very interesting thread btw

@SerbianLad I can't say I agree or believe everything you're saying, but, I do admire you're ability to try and argue your position
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I usually try to ignore political topics on football forums, but I had to try and defend my country because I thought some comments were a bit over the top. I'll always criticize bad things(like I did when your fans were attacked the day before the game), but I'll always defend us when I think it's right.

I think having discussions like this is good, and in real life I always enjoy discussing politics with my foreign friends. Have a nice day mate!
 
I'm enjoying @SerbianLad and his views. Always interesting to get other thoughts, maybe if we understood each other more it would be a better planet.

I have read up a bit about the Balkans and the war. I had no idea just how complicated a situation it is and the history of the region.

He's not came on here to antagonize, he has stated how he sees the world from their point of view, which we should respect.
 
SerbianLad said:
Thanks for your post mate.
Yes Gavrilo Princip wasn't a Serbian per se. He was a member of an extremist organisation called Mlada Bosna(youth of Bosnia). Mlada Bosna had close ties to another extrmist organisation called Crna ruka(the black hand). Black hand organised the assassination of our King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic. Those people don't represent Serbia as a country. Also it's a bit daft to say that the assassination caused the war. War was brewing for years, this just pushed it over the edge.
That Red Star team was great, shame the war happened soon after that, they could have won more european trophies probably.
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SerbianLad
good input mate. The Balkan states are so important to European history. All off the Serbian people I met on my stay this week were very friendly and welcoming, The policing was a bit OTT though! It was great to play a team with such a great history, and win of course!
 
TheDerryend said:
I'm enjoying @SerbianLad and his views. Always interesting to get other thoughts, maybe if we understood each other more it would be a better planet.

I have read up a bit about the Balkans and the war. I had no idea just how complicated a situation it is and the history of the region.

He's not came on here to antagonize, he has stated how he sees the world from their point of view, which we should respect.
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If I'm being honest, I never expected to write this much. My original goal was to explain the meaning behind the banner and to defend my country of the genocidal and racism allegations that were thrown around pretty easily.
I hope that my posts were at least thought provoking and that some of you at least tried to find more about the other side of the story.

I really appreciate the support I received from some people and I feel sorry if I offended anyone with some of my posts. From my experience, Scottish people are usually very nice and I like spending time with them whenever they come to Serbia.
 
SerbianLad said:
We want them to stop trying to fix our problems, to stop trying to take away our territory, etc. Just stop messing with our affairs all together.
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immortal7 said:
In much the same way as the coallition of the willing in 1991 was an 'international force'.

They, rightly or wrongly, are seen as being US led operations in line with the foreign policy goals and aims of the US.


The Argentine junta brought a new transitive verb into the lexicon, 'to be disappeared'. Up to 30,000 dissidents were abducted, tortured and murdered by their death squads.

Famously, a general who was in charge of one of their detention centres would sell the babies born to the raped mothers in his care. He's in jail for crimes against humanity. The CIA knew all of this in real time.



The CIA backed a coup in 2014 and the blob/deep state have been up to all sorts in Ukraine ever since (Hunter Biden wasn't a coincidence). America has played a blinder here, bleeding Russia white using Ukraine as their proxy. That being said, I dont think there is a spook in the Pentagon that thought for a moment Putin would go all in the way he has, signing his and his country's death warrant in the process and giving the military/intelligence/industrial complex another bumper decade of never ending war and money with maximum public support, Even the Germans have committed to 2% GDP on military spending. Feck crypto, get your money into Boeing, Grumann, BAE and the usual death merchants, it is going to be a bumper few years.
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Mate, i will never claim America is innocent. They influenced precedings without a doubt. But if you listen to Putins comments 20 years ago. He has always maintained Ukraine is nothing more than an extension of Russia. Its his own words. So while America is no angel. Ukraine is solely Russias fault - at least the conflict specifically. So my issue is, call a spade a spade if Russia fcuk up. Blame them. If America do, blame them too. Conflating the issue is wrong, because it excuses Putin. Like i said earlier, you dont need to like America to call Russia out.
 
ursus_major said:
SerbianLad
good input mate. The Balkan states are so important to European history. All off the Serbian people I met on my stay this week were very friendly and welcoming, The policing was a bit OTT though! It was great to play a team with such a great history, and win of course!
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Thanks mate. In my experience, foreign people that I met had nothing but nice things to say about Serbia and they always came back at least once more. Regular people(not ultras) are usually very welcoming, warm and kind. It's nice that you share some of those opinions.

Sorry about the policing, but it was really for your own safety, the ultras are sadly mental.
 
SerbianLad said:
If I'm being honest, I never expected to write this much. My original goal was to explain the meaning behind the banner and to defend my country of the genocidal and racism allegations that were thrown around pretty easily.
I hope that my posts were at least thought provoking and that some of you at least tried to find more about the other side of the story.

I really appreciate the support I received from some people and I feel sorry if I offended anyone with some of my posts. From my experience, Scottish people are usually very nice and I like spending time with them whenever they come to Serbia.
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I dont agree with you, but i definitely defend your right to your own opinion mate. A single narrative is never a good thing
 
Hurricane Run said:
Mate, i will never claim America is innocent. They influenced precedings without a doubt. But if you listen to Putins comments 20 years ago. He has always maintained Ukraine is nothing more than an extension of Russia. Its his own words. So while America is no angel. Ukraine is solely Russias fault - at least the conflict specifically. So my issue is, call a spade a spade if Russia fcuk up. Blame them. If America do, blame them too. Conflating the issue is wrong, because it excuses Putin. Like i said earlier, you dont need to like America to call Russia out.
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Then we are not that far from agreeing with each other actually. I just think that by displaying that banner they weren't disputing that what Russia is doing is bad, they just used the chance to criticize USA. There are problems all over the word( Saudi Arabia for example), we should criticize everything bad happening and not channel all hate towards Russia. And as I said, we officially condemned Russia so as far as I'm concerned, that means we are against the Russian aggression.
 
SerbianLad said:
Then we are not that far from agreeing with each other actually. I just think that by displaying that banner they weren't disputing that what Russia is doing is bad, they just used the chance to criticize USA. There are problems all over the word( Saudi Arabia for example), we should criticize everything bad happening and not channel all hate towards Russia. And as I said, we officially condemned Russia so as far as I'm concerned, that means we are against the Russian aggression.
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100% mate. I actually agree with a lot of what you have said. I just want Russia out of Ukraine, and i think the voice of a close partner like Serbia would help.

My opinion doesnt change the fact, you have offered a reasonable and respectful opinion though. Its been nice to converse with someone who views the world differently and i hope you are doing well mate.

No idea if youre a bear or not, but i hope you are now haha.
 
Hurricane Run said:
100% mate. I actually agree with a lot of what you have said. I just want Russia out of Ukraine, and i think the voice of a close partner like Serbia would help.

My opinion doesnt change the fact, you have offered a reasonable and respectful opinion though. Its been nice to converse with someone who views the world differently and i hope you are doing well mate.

No idea if youre a bear or not, but i hope you are now haha.
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I want that too. I wish they never started the war and just sat together at the table and discussed the problem they have (which seems quite complex and more serious than most people think). War is never the solution. Invading a country is never a solution. We can't do anything more than what we did though. We are extremely reliant on Russia when it comes to economy, gas especially, but general import too. If we were to impose sanctions on Russia we would end up cold and hungry. We shouldn't have become that reliant on them, but we can't change the facts now.

I'm not really a Rangers fan(though I always preferred you to Celtic), I'm a football fan, and I joined this forum to try to give an unbiased insight into Red Star(as I'm not theirs or Partizan's fan) and try to answer some questions re: travelling. I do wish you all the best, and I'll be watching your games from time to time. If you ever draw a Serbian team again I'll happily give you some insights again or if Scotland ever plays Serbia again ;) Maybe I'll pop in and post after some random games as well :)
 
SerbianLad said:
I want that too. I wish they never started the war and just sat together at the table and discussed the problem they have (which seems quite complex and more serious than most people think). War is never the solution. Invading a country is never a solution. We can't do anything more than what we did though. We are extremely reliant on Russia when it comes to economy, gas especially, but general import too. If we were to impose sanctions on Russia we would end up cold and hungry. We shouldn't have become that reliant on them, but we can't change the facts now.

I'm not really a Rangers fan(though I always preferred you to Celtic), I'm a football fan, and I joined this forum to try to give an unbiased insight into Red Star(as I'm not theirs or Partizan's fan) and try to answer some questions re: travelling. I do wish you all the best, and I'll be watching your games from time to time. If you ever draw a Serbian team again I'll happily give you some insights again or if Scotland ever plays Serbia again ;) Maybe I'll pop in and post after some random games as well :)
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I wish you well too mate, but I'll take issue with a couple of your points as highlighted;

1. What problem? the only problem is the fact that Putin cannot accept the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and the will of his peaceful neighbors to exist in the free and sovereign nation they have the right to? - the only problem is Putin. You cannot sit and reason with a psychopath, who is happy to murder his own people, never mind the enemies he likes to create.

2. You shouldn't have become that reliable on Russia whilst Putin was showing his true colors, and neither should much of the rest of Europe. You can change the position, if you take a moral stance and start looking for new partners in commerce and trade. Europe is doing that, Serbia is not.
 
SerbianLad said:
I want that too. I wish they never started the war and just sat together at the table and discussed the problem they have (which seems quite complex and more serious than most people think). War is never the solution. Invading a country is never a solution. We can't do anything more than what we did though. We are extremely reliant on Russia when it comes to economy, gas especially, but general import too. If we were to impose sanctions on Russia we would end up cold and hungry. We shouldn't have become that reliant on them, but we can't change the facts now.

I'm not really a Rangers fan(though I always preferred you to Celtic), I'm a football fan, and I joined this forum to try to give an unbiased insight into Red Star(as I'm not theirs or Partizan's fan) and try to answer some questions re: travelling. I do wish you all the best, and I'll be watching your games from time to time. If you ever draw a Serbian team again I'll happily give you some insights again or if Scotland ever plays Serbia again ;) Maybe I'll pop in and post after some random games as well :)
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Really appreciate that mate. Please feel free to come over for a game sometime. Loads of bears would make you welcome.

Stay here and feel free to comment too. Like i said previously, a difference of opinion should always be welcome. It prevents dogmatic narratives taking hold. All the best mate
 
DC_Bear said:
I wish you well too mate, but I'll take issue with a couple of your points as highlighted;

1. What problem? the only problem is the fact that Putin cannot accept the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and the will of his peaceful neighbors to exist in the free and sovereign nation they have the right to? - the only problem is Putin. You cannot sit and reason with a psychopath, who is happy to murder his own people, never mind the enemies he likes to create.

2. You shouldn't have become that reliable on Russia whilst Putin was showing his true colors, and neither should much of the rest of Europe. You can change the position, if you take a moral stance and start looking for new partners in commerce and trade. Europe is doing that, Serbia is not.
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Thanks mate!
To answer your to points:
1. Putin is a big problem, but to say that he is the only problem would be oversimplifying things. Russia and Ukraine have a long and complicated relationship, often moving from "best friends" to "worst enemies", and the problems that they have last much longer then Putin.

2. We were over reliant on Russia way before Putin came. Pretty much ever since we freed ourselves from the Ottoman Empire. It's not that simple to end that situation. Of course it would be better for Serbia if our import was more diverse.
 
SerbianLad said:
Thanks mate!
To answer your to points:
1. Putin is a big problem, but to say that he is the only problem would be oversimplifying things. Russia and Ukraine have a long and complicated relationship, often moving from "best friends" to "worst enemies", and the problems that they have last much longer then Putin.

2. We were over reliant on Russia way before Putin came. Pretty much ever since we freed ourselves from the Ottoman Empire. It's not that simple to end that situation. Of course it would be better for Serbia if our import was more diverse.
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Good luck, but I still disagree re Ukraine. Putin is the problem.
It's his war and his alone. He's the reason young Russians + Ukrainians, men women, kids and babies are being murdered in their homes and shelters. No one else is to blame.
 
DC_Bear said:
Good luck, but I still disagree re Ukraine. Putin is the problem.
It's his war and his alone. He's the reason young Russians + Ukrainians, men women, kids and babies are being murdered in their homes and shelters. No one else is to blame.
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The guy did say Putin is a big problem to be fair.
 
DC_Bear said:
Good luck, but I still disagree re Ukraine. Putin is the problem.
It's his war and his alone. He's the reason young Russians + Ukrainians, men women, kids and babies are being murdered in their homes and shelters. No one else is to blame.
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No problem mate, you'll always agree with someone and somethings but disagree with others, that's life. I don't disagree re: Putin, I just think only Russians and Ukrainians know the full story and that it's more complicated than that.
You have a good day, and I'm sorry if I ever said something offensive, that was never my intention.
 
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