Your view on why we didn't win the league?

AriseSirWalter

AriseSirWalter

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The players got to EL final, took penalties to stop us winning it, so the quality is there. We were much better placed going into the season than our rivals. So what cost us the league in your opinion?

Normally a run to European final or a change in management would be enough in itself to stop you winning the league but I don't think either of these are the issue this season.

In terms of managerial change, I think someone posted the stats and they were broadly similar for Gio and Gerrard. GvB hit the ground running and we didn't lose too many points, if any, due to managerial change IMO. Same for European run, can't point to us just running out of steam because of all the games like we did in 2008. Maybe the draws away to DU and home to Motherwell after Dortmund games could be attributed to Europe? So what does it boil down to?

There are two things that I keep coming back to, I think we as a club/players were complacent - daft dropped points (Motherwell, Hearts, Aberdeen at home at the beginning of the season, Aberdeen, Ross County away in Jan, and then the two mentioned above. Motherwell one was a sickener being two up at home but that was 3 days after putting Dortmund out).

Another 'issue' is I think our style of play is optimised for Europe rather than Scotland and something we need to think about, we have a good structure and rarely lose daft goals of previous seasons but that structure comes at a cost of attacking 'flair', it's not always easy for us to break down teams that come and sit and we rely on a lot of set pieces. Europe was no fluke, our structure gave us control in Europe that no Scottish team has had in my lifetime but it maybe means we're not as good at breaking teams down.

I think it's more than just better individuals, if Kent or Aribo were in another team which had more space and less defensive duties they would tear it up. Aribo prior to going away from African cup for example, Gio started with a more expansive structure and seemed spoked by results in Jan.

It's really difficult when you go from teams having a go at you midweek to others sitting on 18 yard line on Sunday but it's a problem we're going to have to address if we want to continue to do well in Europe.
 
Costly errors, mistakes and inability to finish teams off.

Mistakes from management and players. Even when we were given an opportunity (Celtic drew with Hibs then we drew a few hours later) and 2nd Old Firm at Ibrox, we blew it.

GvB use of the squad at times was poor.

Defending at times was dreadful. Toothless in front of goal.

It’s gone and the seasons over.
 
I don’t think the players were as motivated and focused as they should have been in the league.

Maybe it is because they won the league last season and had met their main goal but there were significant spells during the season where we were not at the standard you would expect from this group of players.

That is why we do need to freshen things up this season
 
Gerrard and the entire coaching staff surrendering can't have been good.

Yes we won games after he left because we're a decent team (apart from the catastrophic hibs hampden game) but it would have taken time for Gio to get to know the players, the system and who to trust etc.

Then there's the extended Euro games and associated travel. The fact that despite all this we only finished 4 points behind them tells you just how garbage they are.
 
The cult of 55

People involved in it wanted thanks, praise and endless gratitude for it while we all wanted the next title.

We underperformed in the league all season, under both managers - miles off from where we should have been, the squad were never at any stage really fully invested in the league

Europe totally reengaged and refocused the squad, the Celtic points thing is a load of pish, we had a squad more than capable of matching anything they achieved domestically
 
The fixture change screwed us over. I reckon we would have extended our lead and the issues in Jan Feb wouldn't have happened or been as bad.

Yes we can point at some errors and it was always going to be difficult to maintain the consistency from previous season but if we move 10 or 12 clear in January we see it out
 
Injuries f*cked us to a certain degree.

However basically just failing to see out games where we should have been comfortable will for me go down as the biggest reason. Hearts start of the year, Ross county, Motherwell. To many draws which should easily have been wins. The defence lost trust in the goal keeper and that resulted in us not getting enough clean sheets.
 
It's not going to sit well but Celtic went on a run which ultimately wins you titles. I don't buy the unsettlement of Gerrard as Giovanni won his first 8 games I think. Celtic got the rub of the green during that run, decisions, last minute goals etc and it became a juggernaut that only we could stop. We then failed to do that at the piggery and the rest is history. We need to be good next year as their style of play will not drop many points against the cannon fodder. It may come down to the 12 points against each other - fortunately it seems like Gio has his number there.
 
I think it was partly down to attitude.
From the off it seemed like a few of them were of the mindset that the league had been won the season before so were not as desperate to win it again. More focused on the glamour Euro ties where the application was outstanding.

Injuries played a part also.

Hate to, but you have to give credit to them also, after a shocking start , they got it together and went on a phenomenal run while many of our fans were still telling themselves that the tims were shit.
 
Mixture of a lot of factors. Recruitment was awful as we gambled on qualifying for the UCL with squad from previous season, Gerrard unsettling the squad with the timing of his departure, the run in the Europa league tired out the players and individual mistakes from a couple of players (not to blame solely but a few McGregor errors come to mind).
 
While all the above points are valid I think the biggest issue that nobody seems to be mentioning is our OF league results. We lost 2 (one a 3-0 loss and one at home) and only won one which was back in august with SG and before they got themselves together. Need to improve in this department next year if we are going to retain the title
 
CaptainCourageous said:
Costly errors, mistakes and inability to finish teams off.

Mistakes from management and players. Even when we were given an opportunity (Celtic drew with Hibs then we drew a few hours later) and 2nd Old Firm at Ibrox, we blew it.

GvB use of the squad at times was poor.

Defending at times was dreadful. Toothless in front of goal.

It’s gone and the seasons over.
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Yep, and I hope (and sure) it will be reviewed to ensure it's not repeated.
 
If we are being honest we were pretty turgid the whole season and even when in front never looked like champions.

You also have to look at Celtic who went on a run that will win any league title
 
TN8 said:
Because Celtic were more consistent and dropped less points over the course of the season. Same thing that wins the league every season.

The end.
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What were the factors that made us less consistent?

It wasn't talent.
 
There is no doubt we didnt finish teams off when we could have in games and tiredness/lazyness ( you decide) came in to play and we lost some concentration in games might be a reason BUT, there is no doubt in my mind that we were not going to be "allowed" to win the title this season.

We had decisions that cost us valuable points that were beyond ridiculous and just downright cheating.
 
You can't pin it purely on MacGregor. We also didn't score enough goals. Celtic had two strikers with excellent scoring records who they could rely on to bail them out when needed. We didn't have anyone with a particularly good scoring record and when we were chasing late goals you could tell. Far too much reliance on the midfield and Tavernier for goals.
 
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Lack of squad depth in some areas to deal with European hangovers.

We lost a lot of points playing on the Sunday following a European game on the Thursday. It is not just us that do that, lots of teams who play in Europe on the Thursday drop points when playing on the Sunday.

But it was not just a lack of squad depth, it was a lack of using our squad depth in some cases, some of the first team players looked tired in the Sunday game and there were adequate replacements on the bench but Gio didn't play them.
 
Motherwell at home - being 2 goals up at Ibrox and surrendering the 3 points to a poor motherwell team was unforgivable, poor game management/bad mistakes.

Ross County away - McGregor with 2 bad mistakes cost us the 3 points

these are the 2 games that stick out for me
 
Injuries, taking the risk of a youth loanee and an injury prone midfielder. That wasn't pulled off.

Losing that OF match 3-0 was brutal though, we win that and the league would have been all but sealed.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
The players got to EL final, took penalties to stop us winning it, so the quality is there. We were much better placed going into the season than our rivals. So what cost us the league in your opinion?

Normally a run to European final or a change in management would be enough in itself to stop you winning the league but I don't think either of these are the issue this season.

In terms of managerial change, I think someone posted the stats and they were broadly similar for Gio and Gerrard. GvB hit the ground running and we didn't lose too many points, if any, due to managerial change IMO. Same for European run, can't point to us just running out of steam because of all the games like we did in 2008. Maybe the draws away to DU and home to Motherwell after Dortmund games could be attributed to Europe? So what does it boil down to?

There are two things that I keep coming back to, I think we as a club/players were complacent - daft dropped points (Motherwell, Hearts, Aberdeen at home at the beginning of the season, Aberdeen, Ross County away in Jan, and then the two mentioned above. Motherwell one was a sickener being two up at home but that was 3 days after putting Dortmund out).

Another 'issue' is I think our style of play is optimised for Europe rather than Scotland and something we need to think about, we have a good structure and rarely lose daft goals of previous seasons but that structure comes at a cost of attacking 'flair', it's not always easy for us to break down teams that come and sit and we rely on a lot of set pieces. Europe was no fluke, our structure gave us control in Europe that no Scottish team has had in my lifetime but it maybe means we're not as good at breaking teams down.

I think it's more than just better individuals, if Kent or Aribo were in another team which had more space and less defensive duties they would tear it up. Aribo prior to going away from African cup for example, Gio started with a more expansive structure and seemed spoked by results in Jan.

It's really difficult when you go from teams having a go at you midweek to others sitting on 18 yard line on Sunday but it's a problem we're going to have to address if we want to continue to do well in Europe.
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There's no single reason but a combination of complacency, individual errors and some poor refereeing decisions cost us the title.

The points lost from winning positions was alarming and together with points shipped at Ibrox was too much to overcome.
 
complancy from the lead we had last year, the scum were never going to be as bad as they were

manipulation of fixtures when they were dead on their feet

officiating "mistakes"

our schedule coming from European games didn't help either, in most games when we had to play after one of those, we started slowly and I feel Europe started taking over for the players as they were saving performances for that arena

defensive mistakes, we should have just made McGregor the European keeper and keep McLaughlin in goal as it's quite obvious the defence were much more comfortable with him behind them

Europe fitted out style of play, our players find it hard to break down teams that sit with 10 men behind the ball or are allowed to kick as much as they can due to reason No3
 
cel'ic did go on a run which is fair enough but that wasn't the factor either, had they not we might have papered over the cracks by winning the league but the issues were there long before their run.
Had we not dropped those daft points at Ibrox at the beginning of the season postecoglu would have been sacked.
 
Missed chances, some sitters. We didn't buy/get loans strikers wisely.
Defensive frailties. Some bad luck with injuries. Terrible cross ball defending
SFA corruption. Some 'honest mistakes' were almost beyond belief.
 
We didn’t strengthen the team sufficiently while on top. I think the majority of fans whilst optimistic, remained unconvinced that the investment in January would be effective. So it came to pass, which begs the question.

How effective do you think Ross Wilson will be to deliver the real quality required by Gio?

I’m thinking that to win more titles, and European achievement , we need Bassey, Kent, Aribo, and Morelos to be convinced that we are serious about investment .
The comments from Beale with regards to stagnation can’t be acceptable this transfer window in my opinion.
 
We didn't score enough goals. Our attacking players didn't contribute enough numbers.
Costly defensive and keeper errors.
Terrible refereeing. In celtics favour and to our detriment.
Moving the winter break - but celtic were more consistent.

Key games for me; Hearts last minute under Gerrard, draw at Ibrox. Motherwell 2-0 up to draw 2-2. Ross County 3-3 draw, McGregor errors, not being able to find a winner at Tannadice - Sakala shirt pull & Diallo chance. All costly afternoons that should have been avoided.
 
Changing manger halfway through our season didn’t help.

The 1-2 at Ibrox was a calamity.

And the fact the other mob just went on a very good run and no other team could step up and take anything from them.
 
We weren’t good enough.
McGregor should’ve been dropped.
Celtic were incredibly consistent.
 
In the list of things, anything to do with McGregor and Gio are MILES down the list for me.

First off, it was failure to deal with the summer transfer window properly. After getting Sakala and Lundstrum on frees, the next steps didn't happen.

That was either due to Gerrard failing in the CL or the board not being firm enough with him about selling players to generate cash to improve the squad.

That's on Gerrard, Ross Wilson and the board.

Too many of the players had a "hangover" from the league win. They were brought here four years back to do that and having achieved it, couldn't switch on quickly enough to get us going again.

A lot of that is also on the ex-manager as his head was away after the league win too. When there was no CL, he was done.

The Janaury window was another Wilson failure. Celtic had got their act together by that point and we didn't strengthen while they did.

Roofe and Hagi being injured stopped our additional goals and assists which got us over the line last year. They were the difference makers.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
The players got to EL final, took penalties to stop us winning it, so the quality is there. We were much better placed going into the season than our rivals. So what cost us the league in your opinion?

Normally a run to European final or a change in management would be enough in itself to stop you winning the league but I don't think either of these are the issue this season.

In terms of managerial change, I think someone posted the stats and they were broadly similar for Gio and Gerrard. GvB hit the ground running and we didn't lose too many points, if any, due to managerial change IMO. Same for European run, can't point to us just running out of steam because of all the games like we did in 2008. Maybe the draws away to DU and home to Motherwell after Dortmund games could be attributed to Europe? So what does it boil down to?

There are two things that I keep coming back to, I think we as a club/players were complacent - daft dropped points (Motherwell, Hearts, Aberdeen at home at the beginning of the season, Aberdeen, Ross County away in Jan, and then the two mentioned above. Motherwell one was a sickener being two up at home but that was 3 days after putting Dortmund out).

Another 'issue' is I think our style of play is optimised for Europe rather than Scotland and something we need to think about, we have a good structure and rarely lose daft goals of previous seasons but that structure comes at a cost of attacking 'flair', it's not always easy for us to break down teams that come and sit and we rely on a lot of set pieces. Europe was no fluke, our structure gave us control in Europe that no Scottish team has had in my lifetime but it maybe means we're not as good at breaking teams down.

I think it's more than just better individuals, if Kent or Aribo were in another team which had more space and less defensive duties they would tear it up. Aribo prior to going away from African cup for example, Gio started with a more expansive structure and seemed spoked by results in Jan.

It's really difficult when you go from teams having a go at you midweek to others sitting on 18 yard line on Sunday but it's a problem we're going to have to address if we want to continue to do well in Europe.
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Fine margins.

Had we beat them in the Ibrox game (the one we lost 2-1), we’d have won the league. We were the better team in the second half, but couldn’t find the back of the net.

Last minute goals against us and last minute goals for them in the same weekend.

Injuries.

Had any one of the above 3 gone our way, we’d have won the league. At the end of the day, they drew 2 less games than us.

They had more luck than us.
 
stooler said:
The fixture change screwed us over. I reckon we would have extended our lead and the issues in Jan Feb wouldn't have happened or been as bad.

Yes we can point at some errors and it was always going to be difficult to maintain the consistency from previous season but if we move 10 or 12 clear in January we see it out
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This is the main reason. It allowed them to strengthen and messed up the timeline coinciding with Aribo going to the AFCON.

They had been preparing these January signings for months. Whereas Gio was only in post late November.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
What were the factors that made us less consistent?

It wasn't talent.
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Same thing as we saw from these players in the other 2 years when Celtic challenged them for the title. Didn't cope with the pressure, players passing the buck, going into their shell, making mistakes. Game v them at Ibrox a prime example. Had the majority of the ball but Kent and Tav the only ones actually trying to make things happen. Comic capers defending costing us decisive goals in a tight game.
 
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