Lovelace

Valley Bluenose said:
I thought two years max, same as you guys. However, I got bored and had a look around the SFA Rules and it seems I was wrong. I was, like you, convinced it was a maximum contract of two years. In fact I’m near certain that’s what Rangers routinely offer. However, here’s what it says in the SFA Handbook Page 199, and it seems it’s 3 years when u18 and 5 years when over 18:

4.3 A Player, who is under 18 years of age at the date of signing as a Professional Player upon the Registration Form may only be registered for a period not exceeding 3 years. Any clause referring to a longer duration within the relative agreement between the Player and the Club shall not be recognised and in such circumstances, the Player’s registration shall cease after 3 years, from the date of the signing as a Professional Player upon the Registration Form.

4.4 The registration of a Player who is 18 years of age and over at the date of signing the Registration Form may be registered for a period up to but not exceeding 5 years from the date of the signing of the Registration Form. Agreements of any other length shall only be permitted if consistent with national laws.

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Cheers VB always thought it was 2 but surprised at that, that’s better news for us then when it comes to signings like Lovelace.
 
Opta said:
Cheers VB always thought it was 2 but surprised at that, that’s better news for us then when it comes to signings like Lovelace.
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Left me baffled too mate. Was convinced it was 2 years. I’m almost certain our kids coming through the Academy routinely get 2 years for example. Lovelace may be/hopefully is on a longer 3 year deal.
 
HawfHeedHartson said:
Because football in 1970 is a world away from football today
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Yes, and young people today are also a world away from those in the 1970s.
I walk down a high street in London and the number of sixteen-year-olds walking around over six feet is a huge change in my lifetime.
So you are immediately wrong.

Guess what, football in the 1970s was a world away from football in the 1920s.
I used to stand next to my old man who watched Rangers in the 1920s and he remembered players that broke through in their mid-teens, and guess what, despite the changes in what we back then called the modern game, players were still breaking through in their teens.

There will always be lads that come along who combine the physical attributes with a mature enough mind to cope with playing alongside fully grown men.

Nothing is set in stone, but there is no reason to immediately doubt the lad's possibilities.
 
bilkobear said:
Yes, and young people today are also a world away from those in the 1970s.
I walk down a high street in London and the number of sixteen-year-olds walking around over six feet is a huge change in my lifetime.
So you are immediately wrong.

Guess what, football in the 1970s was a world away from football in the 1920s.
I used to stand next to my old man who watched Rangers in the 1920s and he remembered players that broke through in their mid-teens, and guess what, despite the changes in what we back then called the modern game, players were still breaking through in their teens.

There will always be lads that come along who combine the physical attributes with a mature enough mind to cope with playing alongside fully grown men.

Nothing is set in stone, but there is no reason to immediately doubt the lad's possibilities.
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Yet its still pretty rare no, especially at the top level. Not sure why you feel the need to tell me I'm 'immediately wrong' when at no point I've said a 16 year old can't make it, of course they can but it's not common. Lovelace may or may not make it with us I hope he does but being big for a 16 year old doesn't mean much we'll see how he progresses.
 
You’re only ‘miles away’ at 16 if you haven’t physically developed enough to handle the game. Look at the ‘wonder kid’ the crash barriers had. They thought he was the next best thing but he was always just a wee guy. Lovelace doesn’t have that issue, he’s a unit.
 
roscof said:
He’s 16. Miles away
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beo0uR5.jpg
 
Swinton Ger said:
What about Alex O’Hara, Alfie Conn, Derek & Barry Ferguson? All in my lifetime made their Rangers debuts at 16 or 17.
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But did they all become 1st team regulars.
This is Rangers.
In my lifetime this support is brutal.
And that’s why we do not tolerate 2mistakes in a row, from an experienced player.
One or two 1st team appearances does not mean anything.
Stop talking shite, and understand the club, not other clubs.
 
HawfHeedHartson said:
Yet its still pretty rare no, especially at the top level. Not sure why you feel the need to tell me I'm 'immediately wrong' when at no point I've said a 16 year old can't make it, of course they can but it's not common. Lovelace may or may not make it with us I hope he does but being big for a 16 year old doesn't mean much we'll see how he progresses.
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Being big isn't always an obvious advantage, you obviously have to combine that with core strength and a level of maturity in your overall physical development.
But that again isn't even enough, you have to have mental strength as well.

Millwall recognised this in the lad last season.
He takes his goals with decisive authority and has a directness in his runs that suggests he understands how to move at an already developed level.
i.e. He is possibly a natural.

I should add that back in the sixties, a young lad breaking through had to cope with heavier boots, heavier shin pads, much heavier pitches, a less responsive ball and although the game was slower it was much more physically demanding on the legs, through the sort of tackling that was allowed.
Referees gave players absolutely no protection and body charges were rarely if ever called as fouls.

Yet, sixteen-year-olds and seventeen-year-olds came through and coped.
 
bilkobear said:
H

No disrespect, but how much football did you watch in the 1960s and 70s?
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watched and played !

60s and 70s drink and diet was atrocious which resulted in very unfit players
which in some cases made it easier for younger players to make an impression

How many players do you know now that sink 8 pints while eating a fry up on a Friday night at 10 o’clock before a game

Games changed hugely , posters like you seem stuck in a time warp.
 
bilkobear said:
Being big isn't always an obvious advantage, you obviously have to combine that with core strength and a level of maturity in your overall physical development.
But that again isn't even enough, you have to have mental strength as well.

Millwall recognised this in the lad last season.
He takes his goals with decisive authority and has a directness in his runs that suggests he understands how to move at an already developed level.
i.e. He is possibly a natural.

I should add that back in the sixties, a young lad breaking through had to cope with heavier boots, heavier shin pads, much heavier pitches, a less responsive ball and although the game was slower it was much more physically demanding on the legs, through the sort of tackling that was allowed.
Referees gave players absolutely no protection and body charges were rarely if ever called as fouls.

Yet, sixteen-year-olds and seventeen-year-olds came through and coped.
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And murder with a hangover!
 
I haven't seen him play but I have seen from the boys who follow the B team for Heart and Hand say they expect him to be in the first team soon.

He is clearly too good for the Lowland league.
 
BoyciesDa said:
watched and played !

60s and 70s drink and diet was atrocious which resulted in very unfit players
which in some cases made it easier for younger players to make an impression

How many players do you know now that sink 8 pints while eating a fry up on a Friday night at 10 o’clock before a game

Games changed hugely , posters like you seem stuck in a time warp.
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I understand that the game has changed, but it had changed in the seventies from the twenties, it will always change.
However, at the same time, human beings have changed as well.

You point out diet back in the sixties, but fail to acknowledge how young people today benefit from every improvement along such lines in the modern era, and it shows as they are far stronger and fitter athletic specimens than their forefathers.
Everything is thus equal.

I think that during WW1 the average working man in the UK was about 5'6"
I can't be sure about that figure but it was significantly smaller than their sons who would come after.

Funnily enough, underage drinking amongst the working class back in the sixties was endemic.
I suspect most young footballers were as keen as their senior pros in that respect, so again, all things being equal.
 
Caldow3 said:
Remember Derek Johnstone in the 1970 League Cup Final? ;)
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DJ didn't do much after the 1978 World Cup when he was only 24.

Alex Ferguson also said that his 1981 cup winners cup team, largely made up of teenagers, were mostly retired and out of the game before they were 25.

Pushing very young players too quickly can be detrimental to their careers.
 
bilkobear said:
I understand that the game has changed, but it had changed in the seventies from the twenties, it will always change.
However, at the same time, human beings have changed as well.

You point out diet back in the sixties, but fail to acknowledge how young people today benefit from every improvement along such lines in the modern era, and it shows as they are far stronger and fitter athletic specimens than their forefathers.
Everything is thus equal.

I think that during WW1 the average working man in the UK was about 5'6"
I can't be sure about that figure but it was significantly smaller than their sons who would come after.

Funnily enough, underage drinking amongst the working class back in the sixties was endemic.
I suspect most young footballers were as keen as their senior pros in that respect, so again, all things being equal.
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Well done on successfully giving me a sore heed
 
HCMC_Loyal said:
If you're good enough you're old enough. I guess he's currently not good enough.
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That sounds brutal - but it’s the truth I think. GvB won’t give a damn about his age. All he will concern himself with is whether Lovelace is ready to contribute to the First Team right now and how is it likely to impact on the youngster.

For now, he evidently doesn’t think it’s the time. Up to Lovelace to show he’s ready. Weston scored for fun for the B Team last season and now finds himself on loan at Thistle, mostly coming off the bench. Lovelace might be physically bigger but it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s better. He’s only a handful of games into his Rangers career. Looks incredibly promising though.
 
I suspect that the posters stating he's 16, therefore miles away, haven't seen the boy play.

He's a unit, looks bigger, better developed and physically stronger than half our 1st team squad, and he's a natural finisher, with a real turn of pace.

He's just in the door, but i expect our management team will be discussing his transition up to the 1st team squad. It's a case of when, not if. Hopefully he'll get a game off the bench v QOTS.
 
He will probably get on as a sub in a cup game if we are playing lower league opposition and he is still doing well
 
bkerr72 said:
It's a great finish but people need to calm down with him and just let him develop in his own time. Had all this last season with Alegria and look how that worked for him when he stepped up a level.
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Eh we didn't, he was ok for the B team and poor at Partick. I cant remember people calling for Algeria in the first team. People are allowed to enquire how far away he is, asking the question on follow follow hardly stunts his development or puts him under pressure mate.
 
derek28 said:
Eh we didn't, he was ok for the B team and poor at Partick. I cant remember people calling for Algeria in the first team. People are allowed to enquire how far away he is, asking the question on follow follow hardly stunts his development or puts him under pressure mate.
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Plenty were touting Alegria mate. Even in the aftermath of his two goals off the bench - on his debut. Sadly that’s as good as it got for Alegria. He’s hopeless. Doubt we will see him play for Rangers again, at any level.
 
derek28 said:
Eh we didn't, he was ok for the B team and poor at Partick. I cant remember people calling for Algeria in the first team. People are allowed to enquire how far away he is, asking the question on follow follow hardly stunts his development or puts him under pressure mate.
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When Alegria scored a hatrick against Alloa Reserves in the cup people on here were wanting him to replace Alfie because he wasn't scoring goals at the time.

Hes playing in the Lowland League to develop so let him do that and see where he is it's a huge jump from that to our first team.
 
derek28 said:
Eh we didn't, he was ok for the B team and poor at Partick. I cant remember people calling for Algeria in the first team. People are allowed to enquire how far away he is, asking the question on follow follow hardly stunts his development or puts him under pressure mate.
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I don't see any way to accommodate a whole country in our 1st XI :)
 
HawfHeedHartson said:
Miles away I'd imagine. Boy looks a real talent but our first team is a massive massive step up from the level he's currently playing at. Still excited about him for the future but I don't think he'll be involved anytime soon.
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He won’t be miles away.
He isn’t ready right now but he could easily be, as early as Christmas, if he keeps improving.
The comparison with Alegria is understandable.
Lazy but understandable.
Weston, would be more accurate.
Forty goals at that level and he still gets loaned out for further development.
This isn’t a reserve league he, or Weston, is competing in here.
Its the fifth division.
Poster “elfidelo” reckons it might even be behind the top junior sides!
Or along those lines anyway.
For me, the next step for Lovelace is the same as Weston.
A loan move at the Thistle level at least, maybe even the championship.
It depends as much on what coaches we can trust to get the best out of our players, as what division that team plays in.
McCall at Thistle seems well like by our people and I can’t think of anybody in the Championship any better.
 
tazzabear said:
He won’t be miles away.
He isn’t ready right now but he could easily be, as early as Christmas, if he keeps improving.
The comparison with Alegria is understandable.
Lazy but understandable.
Weston, would be more accurate.
Forty goals at that level and he still gets loaned out for further development.
This isn’t a reserve league he, or Weston, is competing in here.
Its the fifth division.
Poster “elfidelo” reckons it might even be behind the top junior sides!
Or along those lines anyway.
For me, the next step for Lovelace is the same as Weston.
A loan move at the Thistle level at least, maybe even the championship.
It depends as much on what coaches we can trust to get the best out of our players, as what division that team plays in.
McCall at Thistle seems well like by our people and I can’t think of anybody in the Championship any better.
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Miles away may indeed be a little harsh and a bit over the top I accept that but if he requires loans (which undoubtedly he will) then he's still likely to be a fair way away from our first team.

Like you I trust our coaches to assess the situation properly and do what's right for the lad. Perhaps see him against QotS then as you say send him somewhere like Partick in January. Whatever happens I genuinely hope he's good enough to make our first team as its always brilliant to see players come up from our youth teams.
 
roscof said:
He’s 16. Miles away
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With that attitude our sport wouldn’t have had the likes of Best Pele Maradona Derek Ferguson and many more who broke through at an early age, if a player is good enough he plays, not saying the kid is but you should never hold back skill
 
His next step will be regular participation in first team training. That'll give an early indication as to whether he is ready for anything more than the B team at the moment.

I think people underestimate how big the step up is to first team football.
 
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