Goodwillie

Kinghornloyal said:
In a hearing where all witnesses changed their stories. If you want to believe them that's your prerogative. Insufficient evidence to actually prove any crime was committed.
Click to expand...
I have never claimed otherwise, nor has anyone on this thread.

I note also that the defenders had their appeal against this decision refused by the Inner House.
 
Kinghornloyal said:
It was the first ever civil trial for rape in Scotland and there hasn't been any since I believe. Possibly wrong. Civil cases are to obtain money and that's it. They are not recorded against the person as a conviction.
Click to expand...
Thorntons law website suggests there have been at least 3 of these type of claims:

"I first blogged about a civil rape case back in 2017 when Denise Clair successfully sued two footballers for rape, despite them not having been the subject of a criminal trial. A second civil rape case followed in 2018 when Miss M was awarded damages despite a not proven verdict in a criminal trial. In the latest case, Ms AB has been awarded over £100,000 in damages despite a not proven verdict in a criminal trial."
 
Kinghornloyal said:
Why would I inform the police. It was a civil trial that doesn't involve police
Click to expand...
Lying under oath or affirmation is a criminal offence (either as common law perjury or as a breach of section 44 of the Criminal Law Consolidation (Scotland) Act 1995), regardless of the forum.
 
blueballsbear said:
Thorntons law website suggests there have been at least 3 of these type of claims:

"I first blogged about a civil rape case back in 2017 when Denise Clair successfully sued two footballers for rape, despite them not having been the subject of a criminal trial. A second civil rape case followed in 2018 when Miss M was awarded damages despite a not proven verdict in a criminal trial. In the latest case, Ms AB has been awarded over £100,000 in damages despite a not proven verdict in a criminal trial."
Click to expand...
Slight difference in both those as their was enough evidence to take it to trial. The not proven verdict means it was somewhere in between guilty and not guilty. Goldwillie was below a standards as there wasn't even evidence to take.him to trial. All the witnesses did not corroborate the girl being too drunk to consent to sex. The bouncers the staff or even the taxi driver. That's why it didn't go to court. The CCtV didn't even show the girl being that drunk she needed an ambulance. So the bouncers is definitely a liar
 
Kinghornloyal said:
Slight difference in both those as their was enough evidence to take it to trial. The not proven verdict means it was somewhere in between guilty and not guilty. Goldwillie was below a standards as there wasn't even evidence to take.him to trial. All the witnesses did not corroborate the girl being too drunk to consent to sex. The bouncers the staff or even the taxi driver. That's why it didn't go to court. The CCtV didn't even show the girl being that drunk she needed an ambulance. So the bouncers is definitely a liar
Click to expand...
I was just pointing out that its not unique of rape being judged in civil court where a criminal prosecution failed
 
BroomloanWATP said:
Lying under oath or affirmation is a criminal offence (either as common law perjury or as a breach of section 44 of the Criminal Law Consolidation (Scotland) Act 1995), regardless of the forum.
Click to expand...
Well they should have been done. The reason the case never went to criminal trial was due to the witnesses statements at the time. They didn't corroborate their story. If a rape did happen then the witnesses are at fault here also..ifntheybgave the same story to the police as they did the civil case then I have no doubt Goodwillie would have been on trial at least. So people need to question why did the witnesses change their stories. I'd say cause it was a high profile case. The first of its kind and they were convinced to say what they did.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
You can’t go around saying someone is a rapist unless they have been convicted of this in a criminal court.

I don’t know whether Goodwillie is a rapist. What I do know is that he wasn’t convicted. In fact, it never even got to court.

It’s very sinister for a judge to decide someone is ‘probably’ a rapist when it’s already been established that there is insufficient evidence.
Click to expand...
There is insufficient evidence to prosecute beyond reasonable doubt. That is wholly different from saying he is innocent. He went through a process fully in accordance with Scots law and the judge decided on balance he was guilty.

He lost the civil case and it is a matter of record. That is a proper pucker legal process. Whatever Goodwillie is or not he isn’t innocent.

What I find difficult to reconcile is football is rightly happy to accept that David Martindale presents no danger and has rehabilitated and same for Declan Gallacher. That is right they have done their time and should get a second chance.

Yet Goodwillie is never going to get a second chance. He is beyond redemption ? Our whole justice system is about giving people a second chance. Why is he different?
 
Hipster Dashie said:
There is insufficient evidence to prosecute beyond reasonable doubt. That is wholly different from saying he is innocent. He went through a process fully in accordance with Scots law and the judge decided on balance he was guilty.

He was convicted and it is a matter of record. That is a proper pucker legal process. Whatever Goodwillie is or not he isn’t innocent.

What I find difficult to reconcile is football is rightly happy to accept that David Martindale presents no danger and has rehabilitated and same for Declan Gallacher. That is right they have done their time and should get a second chance.

Yet Goodwillie is never going to get a second chance. He is beyond redemption ? Our whole justice system is about giving people a second chance. Why is he different?
Click to expand...
Well he needs a club to stand by a decision to sign and play him.
There is no reason why they cant.
However with that there will probably be the repercussion of fans, sponsors and fellow colleagues being disgusted and going elsewhere.
Weighing all that up most clubs will think they are better signing someone that doesn't have his rapey saddlebags accompanying them.
 
blueballsbear said:
Well he needs a club to stand by a decision to sign and play him.
There is no reason why they cant.
However with that there will probably be the repercussion of fans, sponsors and fellow colleagues being disgusted and going elsewhere.
Weighing all that up most clubs will think they are better signing someone that doesn't have his rapey saddlebags accompanying them.
Click to expand...
Agree. But why is nobody up in arms over a convicted drug dealer managing their club? Who, by his own admission was a very bad person before going to prison.

Goodwillie has had no repeat offences or allegations that are in the public domain so hard to see why he gets treated so differently.
 
Hipster Dashie said:
Declan Gallacher did a year for a brutal assault on a man at a wedding anniversary function. David Martindale did 4 years for drug and money laundering offences. Both are rightly allowed to resume their career. Sentence served.

Goodwill is is not a nice person and his behaviour repugnant. His conduct through his case and after was awful as well. But is it right he is hounded out of football while a violent man and a drug dealer are welcomed?

Doesn’t sit right with me.
Click to expand...
I get the impression, some wont be happy until he commits suicide. The facts are, no criminal case was brought against him for rape so, he has no criminal conviction for this and the female involved won in a civil case which has a lower burden of proof.

He also has a family and needs to earn a living as folk would also moan if he claimed benefits so what do they want him to do?
 
Last edited:
Hipster Dashie said:
There is insufficient evidence to prosecute beyond reasonable doubt. That is wholly different from saying he is innocent. He went through a process fully in accordance with Scots law and the judge decided on balance he was guilty.

He lost the civil case and it is a matter of record. That is a proper pucker legal process. Whatever Goodwillie is or not he isn’t innocent.

What I find difficult to reconcile is football is rightly happy to accept that David Martindale presents no danger and has rehabilitated and same for Declan Gallacher. That is right they have done their time and should get a second chance.

Yet Goodwillie is never going to get a second chance. He is beyond redemption ? Our whole justice system is about giving people a second chance. Why is he different?
Click to expand...
He wasn't convicted of rape. And its not a matter of public record. A judge in a civil trial where the outcome is found on probability and not fact decided they both raped her as she was too drunk.

What you aren't saying is that the judge decided that her evidence was perfect and acceptable even though she was that drunk to give consent But her recollection of events was true bit the 2 guys evidence was questionable cause they were also drunk.

But again they weren't convicted and have no conviction on their records for rape
 
Hipster Dashie said:
Agree. But why is nobody up in arms over a convicted drug dealer managing their club? Who, by his own admission was a very bad person before going to prison.

Goodwillie has had no repeat offences or allegations that are in the public domain so hard to see why he gets treated so differently.
Click to expand...
thats a really good point as, does anyone scream about a former drug dealer who may have dealt drugs that killed someone or ruined families making a good living as a manager in our game? They dont .


www.scotsman.com

Drugs baron and student partner jailed for cocaine trafficking

A DRUGS baron and his university student accomplice were jailed for a total of nearly 17 years yesterday for trafficking in cocaine.
www.scotsman.com www.scotsman.com
 
Ryzogrumpybear said:
Would struggle to get a work permit in Europe or America and most of the decent world,
Might get a gig in Afghanistan but even they would think twice
Click to expand...
No he wouldn't struggle. He has 3 assault convictions. Zero rape conviction so could play abroad easily. Just like he is entitled to play in the UK
 
Kinghornloyal said:
He wasn't convicted of rape. And its not a matter of public record. A judge in a civil trial where the outcome is found on probability and not fact decided they both raped her as she was too drunk.

What you aren't saying is that the judge decided that her evidence was perfect and acceptable even though she was that drunk to give consent But her recollection of events was true bit the 2 guys evidence was questionable cause they were also drunk.

But again they weren't convicted and have no conviction on their records for rape
Click to expand...
He wasn’t convicted of rape but lost the civil case. We can’t comment on the rights and wrongs because we don’t know the facts. The judge did know the facts though. Judge was clear that on balance of probabilities he did do it.

That is really not the issue issue is why he is being prevented from making a living. He is being repeatedly punished.
 
Hipster Dashie said:
Agree. But why is nobody up in arms over a convicted drug dealer managing their club? Who, by his own admission was a very bad person before going to prison.

Goodwillie has had no repeat offences or allegations that are in the public domain so hard to see why he gets treated so differently.
Click to expand...
How many folk do you see each weak snorting coke up their nose?
Is normalised and somewhat accepted in society.
Rape is not.

For what its worth, if Martindale had the required ability as a manager, I would be raging if he was managing our club.
 
blueballsbear said:
How many folk do you see each weak snorting coke up their nose?
Is normalised and somewhat accepted in society.
Rape is not.

For what its worth, if Martindale had the required ability as a manager, I would be raging if he was managing our club.
Click to expand...
How many families have been damaged and ruined because a son or father/mother/daughter has became addicted to cocaine? Plenty is the answer to that. Drugs ruin families and can lead on to a life of crime and take away choices for people had they not became an addict.
 
blueballsbear said:
How many folk do you see each weak snorting coke up their nose?
Is normalised and somewhat accepted in society.
Rape is not.

For what its worth, if Martindale had the required ability as a manager, I would be raging if he was managing our club.
Click to expand...
Drug dealers are not accepted where I live. They are the scum of the earth and cause human misery in an industrial scale. Every bit as evil as rapists.

If I am totally honest I would not have been happy had we signed Goodwillie. If Martindale came to Ibrox to work I wouldn’t be as annoyed.

Not sure that is right though. If one gets a second chance why not the other. But suppose sex crimes rightly provoke more revulsion.
 
gizmico1986 said:
I’m not a fan of Goodwillie nor do I in anyway condone his actions, however I find it bizzare how much outcry there is when he plays a game of football in comparison to Craig Thomson. Thomson who played with Hearts was grooming children and found guilty of doing so in 2016. 2017 he signed for Edinburgh City and played with them for four years, becoming captain. He then went on and signed for Cowdenbeath last season. Strangely never read about that in the papers.
Click to expand...
Like it or not we have a rehabilitation system in this country. Once you have served your time and paid back whatever you need to you shouldn't be hounded out of any club. If there is no rehabilitation process then we would be as well locking everyone up for the rest of their life. And as you say, it seems to be only certain cases that are mentioned. This one just so happens to involve someone that is pals with Sturgeon.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Like it or not we have a rehabilitation system in this country. Once you have served your time and paid back whatever you need to you shouldn't be hounded out of any club. If there is no rehabilitation process then we would be as well locking everyone up for the rest of their life. And as you say, it seems to be only certain cases that are mentioned. This one just so happens to involve someone that is pals with Sturgeon.
Click to expand...
People who aren't convicted of anything shouldn't require rehabilitation. He has maintained his innocence throughout the process and would need to admit wrongdoing to be part of any rehabilitation
 
Comparisons to Martindale in this are embarrassing
One sold coke and served his time and rehabilitated back into society the other was judged to have had sex with someone who was incapable of consenting and has never compensated his victim even declaring bankruptcy to avoid doing so when he clearly was not bankrupt

As for the argument he didn’t get convicted so he didn’t do it take a look at this image below and tell me you have confidence if he was a rapist he would have went to prison
60 thousand victims 1000 convicted ?
For every 1 convicted rapist 5 get away with the crime
 
blueballsbear said:
but on the balance of probabilities, he did.
He would be best either going abroad to play in Turkey or something, or rapping it and try and get a trade.
Click to expand...
When you say “rapping it” do mean him stopping playing footy or is that a misspelling? Just checking.
 
Hipster Dashie said:
Drug dealers are not accepted where I live. They are the scum of the earth and cause human misery in an industrial scale. Every bit as evil as rapists.

If I am totally honest I would not have been happy had we signed Goodwillie. If Martindale came to Ibrox to work I wouldn’t be as annoyed.

Not sure that is right though. If one gets a second chance why not the other. But suppose sex crimes rightly provoke more revulsion.
Click to expand...
And yet the biggest case in football history is lying silently on our doorstep...
 
GazzaG said:
And yet the biggest case in football history is lying silently on our doorstep...
Click to expand...
This was the next thing I was going to say, when Celtic lose their civil case for the child abuse victims, will Sturgeon, and everyone in the media that want rid of Goodwillie be demanding that Celtic are kicked out of Scottish football and that Stein is removed from the SFA hall of fame?
 
She had the equivalent of alcohol in her system that would be 3 and a half times the legal limit to drive. No drugs in her system so she wasnt spiked. Judge quoted saying that even if she did consent then it doesn’t matter as she was in no state to make that decision. I dont think il be the only one who’s not been in a fit state and ended up waking up next to a horror. Does that mean she raped me then?.

im not gay but Goodwillie was a good looking guy, i doubt he struggled to pick up woman on a night out. If it could be proved beyond doubt that anyone has raped anyone then they deserve to be sentenced to death imo. woman who falsely accuse should have the same penalty. His careers been wrecked because he’s slept with someone who at 3 and a half times over the drink drive limit has been deemed as to drunk that even if she said yes then it doesn’t matter. I’m sure there will be hundreds of these scenarios all over the country every weekend. People getting drunk at a club and end up home with someone. I could get a few locked up if that’s what rape is.
 
blueballsbear said:
There is plentiful work in the country if you want to do it.
He wont be the only rapist working will he?
I appreciate he is a higher profile, but that is because he is in a high profile environment.
If he was shoveling crap on a farm, digging a ditch or whatever normal jobs there would not be the same spotlight on him.
Click to expand...

So at what level is it OK for him to work and who decides. Is shovelling shit OK but not selling kitchens. And why is this guy singled out, considering he was never found guilty in a court of law, whilst other convicted criminals are allowed to get on with their lives.

He played for Clyde for years and nobody batted an eyelid. Because herr nippy gets involved there's a media pile on.
 
Robert1872 said:
She had the equivalent of alcohol in her system that would be 3 and a half times the legal limit to drive. No drugs in her system so she wasnt spiked. Judge quoted saying that even if she did consent then it doesn’t matter as she was in no state to make that decision. I dont think il be the only one who’s not been in a fit state and ended up waking up next to a horror. Does that mean she raped me then?.

im not gay but Goodwillie was a good looking guy, i doubt he struggled to pick up woman on a night out. If it could be proved beyond doubt that anyone has raped anyone then they deserve to be sentenced to death imo. woman who falsely accuse should have the same penalty. His careers been wrecked because he’s slept with someone who at 3 and a half times over the drink drive limit has been deemed as to drunk that even if she said yes then it doesn’t matter. I’m sure there will be hundreds of these scenarios all over the country every weekend. People getting drunk at a club and end up home with someone. I could get a few locked up if that’s what rape is.
Click to expand...
Unless you sat in court and listened to the case you are making a lot of assumptions. Judge did read everything and did listen to facts and cross examinations.

They aren’t biased against anyone and make their judgements all of which can be appealed.

He isn’t innocent.
 
punksnotdead said:
So at what level is it OK for him to work and who decides. Is shovelling shit OK but not selling kitchens. And why is this guy singled out, considering he was never found guilty in a court of law, whilst other convicted criminals are allowed to get on with their lives.

He played for Clyde for years and nobody batted an eyelid. Because herr nippy gets involved there's a media pile on.
Click to expand...
Its up to any given employer if they wish to hire the guy or not.
There is no law or rule preventing him from working.
But employment is not a given right.
 
Hipster Dashie said:
Unless you sat in court and listened to the case you are making a lot of assumptions. Judge did read everything and did listen to facts and cross examinations.

They aren’t biased against anyone and make their judgements all of which can be appealed.

He isn’t innocent.
Click to expand...
The civil case is available online to read.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top