The persistence with English based players

E

El Mas Loco

Well-Known Member
We've been going down this route since about 2015 in which time we have won 2? trophies and had countless collapses and embrassing results. When will the penny drop that these guys are a total waste of time and not suited to either the Scottish game, or the demands of playing for Rangers.

14/15 Season
Gael Bigirimana - Fail
Haris Vukis - Fail
Kevin Mbabu - Fail
Remi Streete - Fail
Marius Zaliuskus - Fail

15/16 Season
Rob Kiernan - Fail
James Taverneir - Success
Wes Foderingham - Fail
Martyn Waghorn - Fail
Harry Forrester - Fail
Gideon Zelalem - Fail
Dom Ball - Fail
Nathan Oduwa - Fail



16/17 Season
Joe Garner - Fail
Jak Alnwick - Fail
Joey Barton - Fail
Jordan Rossiter - Fail
Clint Hill - Fail
Matt Gilks - Fail
Matt Crooks - Fail
Josh Windass - Fail
Joe Dodoo - Fail
Emerson Hyndman - Fail
Lee Hodson - Fail
Jon Toral - Fail

17/18
Graham Dorrans - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Russel Martin - Fail
Jamie Murphy - Fail
Jason Cummings - Fail
Sean Goss - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Aaron Nemane - Fail

18/19
Goldson - Success
Arfield - Success
Jon Flanigan - Fail
Alan McGregor - Success
Andy Firth - Fail
Joe Worral - Fail
Jermaine Defoe - Success
Ryan Kent - Success
Ovie Ejaria - Fail
Jason Holt - Fail

19/20
George Edmundson - Fail
Greg Stewart - Fail
Joe Aribo - Success
Brandor Barker - Fail
Andy King - Fail
Sheyi Ojo - Fail
Glenn Middleton - Fail

20/21
Kemar Roofe - Fail
Leon Balogun - Success
Jon McLaughlin - Fail
Calvin Bassey - Success
Jack Simpson - Fail

21/22
Juninho Bacuna - Fail
John Lundstrum - Fail
Nnambi Oforobh - Fail
Diallo - Fail

22-23
Ben Davies - Fail
Rabbi Matondo - Fail
Todd Cantwell - Jury out
Tom Lawrence - Jury out

Even some of those guys labelled a success are questionable and definitely Goldson, Tav and Kent could be attributed to our serial failings over the years.


We're now linked with more shite like Jack Butland, Willock and Dowell. When is it going to end?
 
There’s some questionable fails in there to be honest, players came in and done a job at the time and we moved on from them, doesn’t make them failures. Foderingham and Waghorn being two examples of that in my opinion.

In the earlier years we didn’t really have many other options than to shop in the English lower leagues.

John Lundstram was key in getting to a European final and you’re calling him a failure ffs, yes his form is poor this season but that doesn’t automatically remove the good he produced last season.

I don’t know much about Dowell but Jack Butland is hardly shite, on a free transfer it’s a no brainer as he’s an immediate upgrade on what we have.
 
I won’t go through them all but labelling Foderingham, Waghorn & Windass as outright fails is just daft OP.

The first 2 signed for us when we were in the championship. It was highly unlikely every player signed in the lower leagues would have the ability to go again & be a standout in the SPFL.

Windass cost us nothing & went for £2.5m IIRC. Scored goals, ultimately wasn’t good enough for where we were heading. That’s not a failure.
 
I've often wondered what happens to a lot of the good talent brought through the ranks by clubs until they hit the Premiership level which is populated by the best players from across the globe.
 
Half the players you’ve marked as a fail are nonsense. They were players who moved us a step forward from where we were, they may not have been the final product we needed, but that didn’t make them a failure.

Roofe was also an immediate success, having a cracking first season and helping us win the title.

We also signed Jason Holt 3 years earlier than your list, and he was from Hearts.

Your list isn’t worth much when it’s wildly inaccurate.
 
Humbug said:
I've often wondered what happens to a lot of the good talent brought through the ranks by clubs until they hit the Premiership level which is populated by the best players from across the globe.
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They end up in the championship or up here…

Ryan Kent, Glen Kamara and Tom Lawrence for starters
 
El Mas Loco said:
We've been going down this route since about 2015 in which time we have won 2? trophies and had countless collapses and embrassing results. When will the penny drop that these guys are a total waste of time and not suited to either the Scottish game, or the demands of playing for Rangers.

14/15 Season
Gael Bigirimana - Fail
Haris Vukis - Fail
Kevin Mbabu - Fail
Remi Streete - Fail
Marius Zaliuskus - Fail

15/16 Season
Rob Kiernan - Fail
James Taverneir - Success
Wes Foderingham - Fail
Martyn Waghorn - Fail
Harry Forrester - Fail
Gideon Zelalem - Fail
Dom Ball - Fail
Nathan Oduwa - Fail



16/17 Season
Joe Garner - Fail
Jak Alnwick - Fail
Joey Barton - Fail
Jordan Rossiter - Fail
Clint Hill - Fail
Matt Gilks - Fail
Matt Crooks - Fail
Josh Windass - Fail
Joe Dodoo - Fail
Emerson Hyndman - Fail
Lee Hodson - Fail
Jon Toral - Fail

17/18
Graham Dorrans - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Russel Martin - Fail
Jamie Murphy - Fail
Jason Cummings - Fail
Sean Goss - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Aaron Nemane - Fail

18/19
Goldson - Success
Arfield - Success
Jon Flanigan - Fail
Alan McGregor - Success
Andy Firth - Fail
Joe Worral - Fail
Jermaine Defoe - Success
Ryan Kent - Success
Ovie Ejaria - Fail
Jason Holt - Fail

19/20
George Edmundson - Fail
Greg Stewart - Fail
Joe Aribo - Success
Brandor Barker - Fail
Andy King - Fail
Sheyi Ojo - Fail
Glenn Middleton - Fail

20/21
Kemar Roofe - Fail
Leon Balogun - Success
Jon McLaughlin - Fail
Calvin Bassey - Success
Jack Simpson - Fail

21/22
Juninho Bacuna - Fail
John Lundstrum - Fail
Nnambi Oforobh - Fail
Diallo - Fail

22-23
Ben Davies - Fail
Rabbi Matondo - Fail
Todd Cantwell - Jury out
Tom Lawrence - Jury out

Even some of those guys labelled a success are questionable and definitely Goldson, Tav and Kent could be attributed to our serial failings over the years.


We're now linked with more shite like Jack Butland, Willock and Dowell. When is it going to end?
Click to expand...
I have to admit I agree with your point and we need to widen our scouting.

However this thread will ultimately fail as you have went OTT to make your point.

Lundstram as an example can't possibly be a fail given his performances in getting us to within a penalty shootout from our 2nd European trophy. Granted his times up and he needs moved on, he isn't a complete fail.

There are a lot of names there that I had forgotten about and giving me PTSD thinking about though!
 
A few inaccuracies in your list OP but I totally agree with the point you’re making.

Our success rate of buying players from the championship is terrible.

We should be looking at Eastern Europe, Scandinavia and Northern America. There has to be better value for money than just looking at England.
 
SuffolkGer said:
Come on, Defoe played 3 times in leagues lower than the English Prem. On loan as a kid, half a season with West Ham and his very last season after us. Listing him as equivalent to Rob Kiernan should be a ban.
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Rossiter, Goldson, Arfield, Ejaria, Kent, the Newcastle five, Ball, Oduwa, Zelalem, Bassey, Toral, Hyndman, Flanagan all came from EPL clubs as well.

The premise is correct though. The fascination with the most overpriced market in Europe is bizarre to me.
 
Lovenkrands26 said:
There’s some questionable fails in there to be honest, players came in and done a job at the time and we moved on from them, doesn’t make them failures. Foderingham and Waghorn being two examples of that in my opinion.

In the earlier years we didn’t really have many other options than to shop in the English lower leagues.

John Lundstram was key in getting to a European final and you’re calling him a failure ffs, yes his form is poor this season but that doesn’t automatically remove the good he produced last season.

I don’t know much about Dowell but Jack Butland is hardly shite, on a free transfer it’s a no brainer as he’s an immediate upgrade on what we have.
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Apart from a three month spell last season, Lundstrum has been horrendous.

A terrible player who should be punted ASAP
 
I take your point although some fails on there seem harsh, but if you bring in English managers than you will have to accept thats the leagues they know and players they want to work with.

The part i find disapponting is they dont seem to sign or have much interest in players from our own league but i guess most would see that is a good thing/positive.
 
Mez said:
Half the players you’ve marked as a fail are nonsense. They were players who moved us a step forward from where we were, they may not have been the final product we needed, but that didn’t make them a failure.

Roofe was also an immediate success, having a cracking first season and helping us win the title.

We also signed Jason Holt 3 years earlier than your list, and he was from Hearts.

Your list isn’t worth much when it’s wildly inaccurate.
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He can't even be bothered to check who we signed players from so why should the rest be accurate. Players signed from Liverpool, Newcastle, Man City etc are lower league apparently. And as for chucking in loans and permanent signings together....

There is a kernel of truth in there, that we haven't been great in the transfer market as a whole, and there should be a great thread about the whys, therefores, on why signings were made and the constraints we had at the various times. But this isn't it.
 
El Mas Loco said:
Foderingham, Waghorn and Windass are Hearts/Hibs level signings. Nothing anybody else will say will convince me otherwise.
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Foderingham is first choice keeper for a team just promoted back to the EPL , how many of the current team are EPL level?

PS agree in principle with OP though.
 
GR6Ger said:
Now it’s clearly bollocks but what level of player were you expecting us to sign when we were in the Championship or just back in the Premiership?
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Not the point. Now that we are financially better placed, we seem to be going back to the same old well of mediocrity.
 
TerryMunro said:
Just one young English guy that excels in Europe would be worth millions in the English inflated market.
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Not only the English market, as Bassey proved.

The list in the OP, given the thread title and overall premise, is confusing, even taking away the amount I disagree with.

Why is Holt listed under 18/19 and Halliday not mentioned at all, for example?
 
There’s a lot of stretching going on there both in terms of timeframe, categorisation and, sorry to say, facts.

I looked at the last 3 years only. Roofe didn’t come from the ‘English lower leagues’. Nor did Matondo. Nor did Bassey. Nor did Diallo (who was only a loan anyway). Ofoborh has, sadly, gone by the wayside due to illness, not injury or form.

I gave up at that point. Just smacks of the usual FollowFollow ‘criticise Rangers for everything and anything‘ mantra that is afoot. A bit of ‘sign some foreigner I’ve never seen nor heard of rather than an Englishman I’ve never seen nor heard of’ about it. Then the poster could complain about signings from Belgium.;):)

Over the last 3 seasons, of our 22 permanent signings, 9 have been signed from clubs in the lower leagues in England. That’s it.

Cantwell
Lawrence
Bacuna
Lundstram
Ofoborh
Defoe
Balogun
McLaughlin
Simpson
 
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Britanian said:
Not the point. Now that we are financially better placed, we seem to be going back to the same old well of mediocrity.
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Like most markets, it's a mixed bag.

It's early, and things could change, but so far Cantwell looks like an absolute steal, and he would fit the criteria that seems to be in place.
 
I don't understand why, we as a club, who are pleading skint, shouldn't have a globetrotting scouting team going into every nook and cranny. Chile, Norway, South Africa, South Korea, the full lot. Costs for that department will go up, but should be offset by getting players who are not from the wealthiest football nation in Europe.
It smacks of laziness to me. Imo.
 
You have started off with a view you wish supported and fashioned your data to support that view. With that method you’ll easily qualify for a job with the SNP.

I’ll take two that stand out for me, first Andy Firth, brought to the club by Gerrard in the role of ‘hope we never have to use him but is here just in case our other keepers are unfit or suspended’. Did exactly what he was signed to do, hopefully nothing. Second Jamie Murphy, doing a decent job for us until crocked by Kilmarnock’s disgrace of a pitch. By your line of reckoning Ian Durrant would have been a failure.
 
El Mas Loco said:
We've been going down this route since about 2015 in which time we have won 2? trophies and had countless collapses and embrassing results. When will the penny drop that these guys are a total waste of time and not suited to either the Scottish game, or the demands of playing for Rangers.

14/15 Season
Gael Bigirimana - Fail
Haris Vukis - Fail
Kevin Mbabu - Fail
Remi Streete - Fail
Marius Zaliuskus - Fail

15/16 Season
Rob Kiernan - Fail
James Taverneir - Success
Wes Foderingham - Fail
Martyn Waghorn - Fail
Harry Forrester - Fail
Gideon Zelalem - Fail
Dom Ball - Fail
Nathan Oduwa - Fail



16/17 Season
Joe Garner - Fail
Jak Alnwick - Fail
Joey Barton - Fail
Jordan Rossiter - Fail
Clint Hill - Fail
Matt Gilks - Fail
Matt Crooks - Fail
Josh Windass - Fail
Joe Dodoo - Fail
Emerson Hyndman - Fail
Lee Hodson - Fail
Jon Toral - Fail

17/18
Graham Dorrans - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Russel Martin - Fail
Jamie Murphy - Fail
Jason Cummings - Fail
Sean Goss - Fail
Declan John - Fail
Aaron Nemane - Fail

18/19
Goldson - Success
Arfield - Success
Jon Flanigan - Fail
Alan McGregor - Success
Andy Firth - Fail
Joe Worral - Fail
Jermaine Defoe - Success
Ryan Kent - Success
Ovie Ejaria - Fail
Jason Holt - Fail

19/20
George Edmundson - Fail
Greg Stewart - Fail
Joe Aribo - Success
Brandor Barker - Fail
Andy King - Fail
Sheyi Ojo - Fail
Glenn Middleton - Fail

20/21
Kemar Roofe - Fail
Leon Balogun - Success
Jon McLaughlin - Fail
Calvin Bassey - Success
Jack Simpson - Fail

21/22
Juninho Bacuna - Fail
John Lundstrum - Fail
Nnambi Oforobh - Fail
Diallo - Fail

22-23
Ben Davies - Fail
Rabbi Matondo - Fail
Todd Cantwell - Jury out
Tom Lawrence - Jury out

Even some of those guys labelled a success are questionable and definitely Goldson, Tav and Kent could be attributed to our serial failings over the years.


We're now linked with more shite like Jack Butland, Willock and Dowell. When is it going to end?
Click to expand...

A few harsh fails in there.

Some players were brought in at a particular time and done exactly what they were recruited to do for what we needed at that time.

Foderingham, Waghorn, Holt, Flanagan, even McLaughlin are the obvious ones that spring to mind.
 
Title updated since some people were completely missing the point.

Also, I had a scan through Transfrmarket website. Not exactly the easiest to use.

People missing the overall point that we've got probably a less than 10% success rate with English based players.
 
bkkbear said:
He can't even be bothered to check who we signed players from so why should the rest be accurate. Players signed from Liverpool, Newcastle, Man City etc are lower league apparently. And as for chucking in loans and permanent signings together....

There is a kernel of truth in there, that we haven't been great in the transfer market as a whole, and there should be a great thread about the whys, therefores, on why signings were made and the constraints we had at the various times. But this isn't it.
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Agreed. We’ve had some awful windows, not only guys from the Championship, but signing dross from abroad.

Peña, Herrera, Cardoso, Alves, Grezda, Sadiq, Polster, Zungu, Sands, Zukowski, Itten off the top of my head all came from abroad and never made it to our level.
 
Lovenkrands26 said:
There’s some questionable fails in there to be honest, players came in and done a job at the time and we moved on from them, doesn’t make them failures. Foderingham and Waghorn being two examples of that in my opinion.

In the earlier years we didn’t really have many other options than to shop in the English lower leagues.

John Lundstram was key in getting to a European final and you’re calling him a failure ffs, yes his form is poor this season but that doesn’t automatically remove the good he produced last season.

I don’t know much about Dowell but Jack Butland is hardly shite, on a free transfer it’s a no brainer as he’s an immediate upgrade on what we have.
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Agree the OP has been a bit harsh on some in order to prove a point. I think the point in general is correct though. Aside from the questionable quality, for players coming from teams where losing every few games is no big deal and an away draw is seen as a good point, to the sudden need / expectation to win every game, the adjustment in mindset required is massive.
 
The level of player we signed in England when we were in the Championship and struggling for 3rd place is completely different to the ones we will be looking at now as a potential CL team. So trying to use Rob Kiernan as a reason not to sign Butland is complete fucking stupidity.
 
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