Loyal & True
Well-Known Member
I never mentioned his book, maybe someone else did, but I didn't.
But he did say it in a tv interview or in an interview of some sort .
Billy McNeil Quote "Open Secret" Daily Record
- Thread starter Aspley1 Ger
- Start date
But he did say it in a tv interview or in an interview of some sort .
Brother Crockett
Well-Known Member
Stein had a reputation for the horses and other peoples’s wives. There are two reasons right there to keep his mouth shut second time around
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
HR was a bit different back then, as was the manager’s role.
The manager was in charge of every aspect of the playing side of the club.
Some clubs had a General Manager but that wasn’t necessarily a higher level than manager.
Actually it was probably where the phrase “moved upstairs” came from which was a bit of a misnomer, the true meaning being “moved out of the way”.
Rangers, with Waddell and Wallace was a bit different though.
Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
Agree 100% with everything you said. I’m glad you brought up that this goes higher than Celtic and right to the top of the people running this planet. This pedo enabling and ignoring victims must be eradicated worldwide and it will take some very high people to get life sentences or death penalty to get the message across. I want these pedos shitting their pants and living a life of misery when eventually the dam breaks on the protections they have been given.
Bring-on-56
Well-Known Member
This was a man that didn’t call the police because he didn’t want his own achievements overshadowed or undone, that was the real reasons before the good name of the club. I hope that statue of him and every good account of him is whitewashed from history. How the orange order allowed this snake entrance is anyone’s guess.
Bring-on-56
Well-Known Member
It’s also a huge overlooked (coincidence maybe) that Gerry McCann worked as a Celtic physio in the 1990s.
jf1960
Well-Known Member
I think Torbett was involved in a few testimonial committeesTorbett also helped arrange Tommy Burns Testimonial for Celtic FC (which doesn't sound like a Celtic Boys Club role)
Noddy
Well-Known Member
He was. It's been posted on here that he was heavily involved in organising Roy Aitken's testimonial v Manchester United in 1987.
Huckleberry
Well-Known Member
The unscrupulous individuals willingly accepting coin from Torbett and testimonials is unashamedly high ,however they would argue charities also benefited ?
These activities all contributed towards Torbetts popularity and presence in directors boxes at matchdays. As had been stated in previous posts he had access to all at parkhead.
A long time, and a few identities ago I might add...You really are a glutton for punishment, I'll give you that.
Apsley Ger, who started this thread. lifted the quote from a forum called Not606, created after the old BBC606 forum went down the tubes
The article was written by Daily Record Reporter, Gordon McIlwraith, on July 11th 1998:
What would be the reaction.............
As you know I am not Einstein, But could he simple answer be he might not have known until he sent his son? His son was there for years, and you are...www.not606.com
Not606 is a mixed forum and I was at war with a bitter bastard called DevAdvocate - I had Spin City come over from the old FF Board to put him straight on a few things about Jock Stein and the cover up.
At the time of arguing with DevAdvocate I believed the McNeill "open secret" was a fact, and used it against him in the debate.
So the part Apsley Ger quoted...
was added by me, and not Gordon McIlwraith.
Dev was a bitter bastard, that's for sure, but re-reading that thread again it's typical of the scum that him and others of his ilk tried every deflection tactic in the book. 'Where's yer proof', 'different time, different standards', 'yees ur aw bigots', blah, blah, blah.
Nothing ever changes with these mutant cunts.
One thing is for sure, Justice will never be driven from their direction, it will always have to come from outside.
Not having a go at you but that is a pile of shit based on a half-truth.
It was the boy himself, as an adult, who went looking for the Police Report and the Police told him they couldn't find a record of a Report being made.
Bear in mind this is a Report filed before everything was computer-logged and a Report which didn't lead to any further action, so therefore just another piece of paper to be filed.
Also bear in mind that the Police Force who couldn't find a piece of paper filed years ago is also the same Force who lost ALL of the physical evidence of the hanging effigies at Celtic Park. And it only took them months to do that, not the 20+ years this Report was filed for.
Some other pertinent facts:
1. The boy's father was a senior serving Police Officer at the time of the incident. So imagine Rangers trying to cover up evidence of a crime when the boys father was a senior Cop.
2. The family are the ones who decided not to press charges, probably because they did not want to stigmatise their son.
Pressing charges was not something Rangers could do. The victim was the boy, not Rangers.
3. The son only went to the Press long after his Parents were both dead, and therefore not around to either corroborate or disavow his story regarding the filing of any Report.
4. The son would not know at the time whether a report had been filed or not unless his parents specifically told him. It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to realise that his parents might have wanted to shield him from further distress.
5. Yes, the Rangers News reported Neely's departure and wished him well. Firstly it's unlikely anyone at the Rangers News knew the true story behind Neely's departure and secondly, even if they did they were not likely to mention it and prejudice any possible future legal action against Neely, especially when the boys parents wanted the matter dealt with privately.
You should see, by the way, the glowing eulogy the Celtic News gave Torbett after Stein booted him out. I'm sure someone on here might still have a scan of that article. I'm pretty sure Gordon Woods and the Spotlight team have it as well.
The scum use Neely and others to muddy the waters. That's the bottom line.
Obfuscate, Deflect and Deny. It's the Celtic way...
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bearmind
Well-Known Member
That article #1 including the court statements of Celtic directors, executives, management, ex captain, players and the staff from Celtic Boys club was adequate evidence that should have been investigated by The Scottish Governments Child Abuse Inquiry.
An absolute disgrace and travesty of justice for Scotland that the Enquiry kept such a narrow remit for its investigation I.e just abused children in carehomes. A lot of intelligent, decent people views this as an deliberate avoidance by government to investigate one of Scotland's major sporting institutions which they knew they would have to find guilty and this would have been a vote-loser from certain elements.
"Limited scope of investigations' (WIKI)'
'Abuse survivors have called on the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry remit to be widened out to include victims who were targeted outwith residential care. Lady Smith rejected this request.[78]
Survivors of child abuse have criticised the Inquiry for not investigating sports and leisure clubs or faith based organisations attended on a day-to-day basis.[79] In 2016, Kezia Dugdale the Scottish Labour Leader at the time, called on the Inquiry to be expanded to include football in light of the evidence of attacks on young players, stating unless the remit of the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry was widened, the majority of abuse survivors would be “denied justice”.[80] Nicola Sturgeon refused to expand the Inquiry because it would take too long to conclude its investigations.[81] Other similar Inquiries have had wider terms of reference to include sport such as the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse and have concluded in a shorter time than the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry.[82]
Survivors of child abuse were ignored when they called for the Inquiry to investigate all allegations of organised abuse and paedophile rings outside of residential care. Graeme Pearson Labour's justice spokesman said there should have been an investigation as to why the child abuse allegations against Tory MP Nicholas Fairbairn and barrister Robert Henderson QC were dropped by police, stating "Given the new knowledge we have of the powerful people involved in some of these cases, I think the time is right to revisit this and get a clear understanding of what went on and to ask if [the case] was abandoned, was it abandoned for the right reasons?"[83]
A survivor has criticised an Inquiry report as a 'cover up' as he was not allowed to give evidence about being trafficked to Ireland while in care. Mr Sharp said: “There's no mention of being taken over to Ireland, despite lots of men coming forward and saying the same thing happened to them.[84]'
An absolute disgrace and travesty of justice for Scotland that the Enquiry kept such a narrow remit for its investigation I.e just abused children in carehomes. A lot of intelligent, decent people views this as an deliberate avoidance by government to investigate one of Scotland's major sporting institutions which they knew they would have to find guilty and this would have been a vote-loser from certain elements.
"Limited scope of investigations' (WIKI)'
'Abuse survivors have called on the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry remit to be widened out to include victims who were targeted outwith residential care. Lady Smith rejected this request.[78]
Survivors of child abuse have criticised the Inquiry for not investigating sports and leisure clubs or faith based organisations attended on a day-to-day basis.[79] In 2016, Kezia Dugdale the Scottish Labour Leader at the time, called on the Inquiry to be expanded to include football in light of the evidence of attacks on young players, stating unless the remit of the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry was widened, the majority of abuse survivors would be “denied justice”.[80] Nicola Sturgeon refused to expand the Inquiry because it would take too long to conclude its investigations.[81] Other similar Inquiries have had wider terms of reference to include sport such as the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse and have concluded in a shorter time than the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry.[82]
Survivors of child abuse were ignored when they called for the Inquiry to investigate all allegations of organised abuse and paedophile rings outside of residential care. Graeme Pearson Labour's justice spokesman said there should have been an investigation as to why the child abuse allegations against Tory MP Nicholas Fairbairn and barrister Robert Henderson QC were dropped by police, stating "Given the new knowledge we have of the powerful people involved in some of these cases, I think the time is right to revisit this and get a clear understanding of what went on and to ask if [the case] was abandoned, was it abandoned for the right reasons?"[83]
A survivor has criticised an Inquiry report as a 'cover up' as he was not allowed to give evidence about being trafficked to Ireland while in care. Mr Sharp said: “There's no mention of being taken over to Ireland, despite lots of men coming forward and saying the same thing happened to them.[84]'
I think the scum's line of attack is that the quote appeared in a Newspaper article, they deny it was ever said in a Court Of Law...looks like there might be a date to work on
The quote below is a direct quote from the man voted by the Celtic fan’s as Celtic Football Club’s greatest ever Captain and a former twice time Celtic Football Club manager, Billy McNeill.
“It (Torbett’s crimes) was an open secret at Parkhead”
Billy McNeil, Evening Times, 13th November 1998
THE CELTIC SEX abuse CASE COVER UP: FAIL CESAR. BILLY MCNEILL’S NOT ONCE, NOT TWICE BUT THRICE TIME FAILURE TO REPORT PAEDOPHILES AT THREE CLUBS WHERE HE MANAGED. Part 1
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.The evil that men do lives after them;The good is oft interred with their bones;So let it be with Caesar. (fr…themanthebheastscanttame.wordpress.com
He pulled down the boys shorts and pants and was going to spank him, although I don't think he actually did spank him.
By today's modern standards that would be a sexual assault I believe but yes, it was nowhere near the type of abuse which Torbett and others carried out.
MuddyWaters
Well-Known Member
Yep!! if a company knows your stealing or commiting an industrial misdemeanor, they might not be able to prove it to the police but they can sack you.
I remember an incident where I worked I guy was caught with stolen goods in a random search and the security guard took the stolen goods out of his bag, phoned the police, the police came and couldn't charge him as the police said the guard could have put them in the guy's bag, he was still sacked.
CELTC FOOTBALL CLUB ARE BAD AS THE PERPETRATORS!!!
Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
If it’s a half truth, fair enough, that’s why I asked the question about the two stories. I didn’t know until yesterday that the guys Dad was a senior police officer.
They desperately want to accuse us of a cover-up but they can't when they know the boy's dad was a Cop.
In fact, if the dad had wanted Neely arrested he could have done it himself. He was at the meeting where Neely confessed.
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Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
Agreed but is there a reason why he didn’t arrest him, do you know, I wish I did?
I don't know, but I can speculate.
The offence, although disgusting and despicable was relatively minor. Would the dad, who most probably had experience of these types of proceedings in his life as a Policeman, really have wanted to put his son through the ordeal of having to give a statement and then go to Court to give evidence if the allegations got that far..?
He would know his son's life at school would have been one of merciless teasing, bullying and innuendo had any of this reached the newspapers - protection of children's identities wasn't a thing back then.
Even if they went through it all and Neely was found guilty what would he have been found guilty of..? Common assault maybe..? His Lawyer would have certainly argued against it being any kind of sexual abuse. He'd probably argue that Neely wanted to punish the boy for some misdemeanour, but in his anger went too far. He'd argue that Neely realised this before he actually carried through the punishment and that's why he stopped.
If you look at the boy's account of the attack, any Lawyer could easily make it look that way.
So on balance, risk v reward, the father probably thought it wasn't worth it.
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Looking to trash the reputations of Stein/McNeil in this way is not something that reflects well on us in others eyes, and there's a good reason for it.
Two managers and a captain, of course, but if you hear of something in your place of work that requires police involvement then the responsibility lies with those at the top, whether it be an operations manager or a board member. Even if a complaint is taken to Stein or McNeil, chiefs will expect it to be forwarded to them before it is taken outside of the company.
Buck stops with those at the top, so picking out two specific characters further down the food chain will seem unjustifiable to any neutral looking in.
LIST OF THOSE WITH GREATER ROLE OF DISHONOUR
Bob Kelly 1947-1971
James Farrell 1964-1994
Desmond White 1971-1985
Kevin Kelly 1971-1994
John McGinn 1981-1994
Chris White 1981-1994
Tom Devlin 1985-1986
Tom Grant 1985-1994
Jack McGinn 1986-1991
Brian Dempsey 1990
Terry Cassidy 1990-1992
Michael Kelly 1990-1994
David Smith 1992-1994
Not for one minute am I saying that any sort of respect is due for Stein or McNeil, but as far as Celtic's Boys Club goes they're not even in the top ten when it comes to the names of shame.
Two managers and a captain, of course, but if you hear of something in your place of work that requires police involvement then the responsibility lies with those at the top, whether it be an operations manager or a board member. Even if a complaint is taken to Stein or McNeil, chiefs will expect it to be forwarded to them before it is taken outside of the company.
Buck stops with those at the top, so picking out two specific characters further down the food chain will seem unjustifiable to any neutral looking in.
LIST OF THOSE WITH GREATER ROLE OF DISHONOUR
Bob Kelly 1947-1971
James Farrell 1964-1994
Desmond White 1971-1985
Kevin Kelly 1971-1994
John McGinn 1981-1994
Chris White 1981-1994
Tom Devlin 1985-1986
Tom Grant 1985-1994
Jack McGinn 1986-1991
Brian Dempsey 1990
Terry Cassidy 1990-1992
Michael Kelly 1990-1994
David Smith 1992-1994
Not for one minute am I saying that any sort of respect is due for Stein or McNeil, but as far as Celtic's Boys Club goes they're not even in the top ten when it comes to the names of shame.
I disagree, Stein is a central character in all of this. He knew what Torbett did. He knew enough to boot him unceremoniously out of the Club. He knew enough that the scandal would ruin Celtic's 'good name' (sic).
Stein actually took action which turned out in the end to be inaction. Stein could have blown the whole sordid mess wide open, instead he left the way for more children to be abused. And he knowingly did so.
If you tell a work foreman of something that's going to need the police, and he goes straight to plod without first consulting his seniors he's going to be out the door.
Not excusing Stein, but worth bearing in mind that the responsibility lay with those above and he given how they acted all through the sorry saga the chances are he'd have been out of a job.
Far as I'm aware Stein did not re-appoint Torbett, but if he did I'll turn my mind around.
They hit you with the "You are a bigot" card.
captcaveman
Well-Known Member
Indeed, and I take a very dim view of the man for tolerating it but when there is a whole cast of accused and so many above him the singling out of Stein looks very much like a case of jealousy regards his achievements.
And I say this as someone who sees our 71/72 as far superior to their 66/67 one. Four high-class kills for us (Rennes, Lisbon, Torino, Munich) against just two for them (Nantes, Inter). As well as this, Aberdeen's two in 1983 leave both Rangers and Celtic in the dirt.
Look at the list of the accused that I posted. Repeatedly shouting "Big Jock Knew" looks very much like something else when Stein is only one in a cast of criminals.
captcaveman
Well-Known Member
Yes, he did work for them, Im sure it was when Burns was their manager
A man who is answerable to nobody cannot be unseated by the genius of Jock Wallace, or denied a move upstairs due to upstairs being reserved for voodoo sorts only.
Holding up Stein as if he's the one and only, or the ringleader, is as improper as saying that Davie Cooper finally delivered justice to him.
Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
I hadn’t thought of some of those scenarios and can understand if the Dad stayed his hand.
Excellent analysis of the situation.
At least Neely never worked in football all again and is no longer with us.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend, Thedogman
RangersForever
Well-Known Member
This thread is a bit weird. A lot of members who are obviously interested enough to post many extended messages but are not aware of the information on the main Celtic child abuse thread.
Something else I wanted to add regarding Billy McNeil but unsure if true and I can't remember the source - possibly a Charlie Nicholas biography if there is such a thing. Would be useful to have this confirmed or denied.
Apparently Charlie Nicholas mother was worried about him going to/ being at Celtic - as she was obviously aware of the open secret, and Billy McNeil reassured her that he would make sure nothing would happen to Charlie.
Something else I wanted to add regarding Billy McNeil but unsure if true and I can't remember the source - possibly a Charlie Nicholas biography if there is such a thing. Would be useful to have this confirmed or denied.
Apparently Charlie Nicholas mother was worried about him going to/ being at Celtic - as she was obviously aware of the open secret, and Billy McNeil reassured her that he would make sure nothing would happen to Charlie.
The same police force that managed to lose the list of 14 suspects given by Gerry Mcsherry..
There was plenty of proof, they weren't prepared to use it.
Solarstone
Well-Known Member
Was auld bawface pumping horses? This club gets more disgusting by the minute.
Solarstone
Well-Known Member
Stevie Fulton’s mother was also assured that young Stevie would be safe.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
My undersranding is Neely was fired for making a sleezy verbal comment(non physical abuse) to the boy
4 & 5 as you lighlighted though Rangers may well have reported it it could be the case the cops didn't seem worthy of chasing it up as it was a verbal and no actual assualt or physical abuse took place?
Torbett was kicked out of their boys club club in 1974 and allowed back 4 years later in 1978. Jack McGinn and Kevin Kelly both argued that they knew nothing of Torbetts previous crimes and conviction , and had no reason to stop him coming back. Hugh Birt was particularly vociferous in his disagreement and disgust of the situation , eventually losing his privileges at Parkhead and leaving him with no option other than to resign. Makes you wonder who were making the decisions above the chairman of the boys club ? ...Separate Entity my arse.
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Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
Just seems that the tims are beyond desperate to equate Neely with their decades of child abuse and possibly child trafficking.
Their terrified that the image they have of being a club for the downtrodden and disenfranchised will be be blown away like a fart in the wind.
Once this really hits the headlines, I can’t wait for the deflection:
1) Neely.
2) EBT’s
3) They didnae sign tims for years.
4) They sing songs we don’t like.
5) They have a picture of the King in the dressing room.
6) Brexit is their fault.
7) We threw bananas at Walters to give him energy as he was running up and down the wing too fast.
8) Rangers trashed George square but when we did it is was ok because covid was over.
Jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
If they went to court the Kelly’s would be like Manuel in Fawlty Towers; “I know nothing”.
They’ll play the old and frail card looking for sympathy from the jury while knowingly lying their arses off. How you can forget a part of your history that lasts for decades?
Neilstonger
Well-Known Member
And there you have it. The then scum manager had the authority to sack the most senior individual within that boys club. Separate entity my royal blue arse.
It would not change the point that I'm making.
I am not here to act as Stein's defence. I wouldn't dream of doing so.
All I am saying is that there's more guilty men over there than you'll find in a ghetto, and although Stein's actions mean that he is undeserving of the term "human being", those looking in will understandably see it as a one-man character assassination for reasons of jealousy. They will see it as petty and obsessive.
Without a doubt a Grade A bastard, but not the most powerful bastard, and by no means the bastard responsible for the biggest calls at that bastard club. What he did was unforgiveable, I'm sure you'll agree, but the way that Rangers fans have dealt with this has been as far away from even-handed as you'll get.
So many pieces of shit to choose from, but it's always the same dollop.
May he rot in hell, but just when is it the turn of Desmond White and the rest?
