He was a big part of us losing the league in his second last seasonAs big a reason as any that we won a league again under Gerrard.
Outwith his final season he was excellent for us.
He was a big part of us losing the league in his second last seasonAs big a reason as any that we won a league again under Gerrard.
Outwith his final season he was excellent for us.
It massively is down to leadership and mentality, and it's not just Ross County, it is a raft of games which draw this reaction, people haven't just whimsically came to this place after a game
I would question if now sacked Gio actually does think that, I would question if Clement actually does think that. there is an element of Clement in particular having to pander to this group as a consequence of circumstances which have went before him. Even Gerrard regularly would sound beyond frustrated by the general mentality of the side
What they are, is measurably better at football than all but 1 team they often play, which shows a fragility of mindset rather than it solely being about their football talent, to state they simply aren't good enough is an excuse, they ARE good enough to beat the sides who have generally derailed our title bids, the issue is there attitude, and thus leadership of the group often fails them
But they still get similar points levels to all of our previous teams under Walter and the likes because, guess what, they lost games too.
People act like this is the first Rangers team to lose games we thought we'd win.
The fact is we've had far better Rangers teams lose similar amounts of games over a season.
Do you remember the treble winning side of 2003? We drew away at Dundee in the run in and lost at home to Celtic and looked to have blown it. Helicopter Sunday we lost again a must win v Celtic at Ibrox..and that was with Barry Ferguson who was undoubtedly a shouter and leader.
2008 we had a bit of a late collapse (not helped by amount of games admittedly) despite having Weir and Ferguson and others.
2009 we drew at Hibs in the run in and looked to have blown it only for Celtic to go and do the same.
2011 we were a McGregor penalty kick save away from blowing it and still required Celtic to then lose with 2 games to go in Inverness.
It's literally always happened even with our greatest leaders. Just sometimes we end up winning the league and these players land on the right side of history.
Does a leader make Dessers take the million chances that comes his way every game?
Answer me this- if Goldson had the leadership ability of Gough, are things different in terms of the errors being made?
Or is it actually that Goldson needs the footballing ability of Gough?
The players across the team must improve because it's horrendous, basic errors we are making to cost us horrible goals.
But the same people just keep shouting aboht leadership because of 3 players remaining from previous years. It's lazy.
Football changes, speaking about seasons from 10 years ago is redundant, trends and behaviors of the game change, they aren't trying to win the title in 2011.
You are also comparing them to a side who won multiple leagues and trophies, they had actions and behavior to validate why people praise those players mindsets, this group doesn't have anything like that
Celtic would buckle at key moments as they are like this side, they were gripped by nerves when it really has to be pushed over the line, they just didn't have the balls for it like this leadership grou
Speaking about players like Ferguson, Maldini and Messi and comparing them to the leadership of this group is just nonsensical, their careers were on a completely other planet
They regularly landed on the right side of history to the point it isn't just coincidence, this group regularly hasn't to the point it isn't just coincidence
If Goldson has a comparable mentality to Gough, he has enough talent not to have made the absolutely nonsensical errors he has been making in recent weeks. His form has completely fallen off a cliff, he IS a talented football player and there is evidence to show that, his decision making in recent weeks when under real pressure has fallen to bits, that is mentality related
People keep speaking about mentality and leadership, and it is repetitive because people have seen the same thing over and over and over and over and over
Given all the mad mental gymnastics you've done every time I've spoken about where other teams with recognised great leaders had bad results in order to just continue shouting at the moon about leadership of this group, I'm gonna leave it there mate.
Literally dismissing examples of great leaders we had who found themselves in the same situation at the same club is a bit mental.
You obviously have your opinion and no amount of other examples is going to sway you from that.
Have a nice day mate.
I didn't speak about Maldini mate.
It's all relative. We can point to successes this group have had that they shouldn't have such as Seville and an invincible title where we were under the most pressure to win a title we ever have.
It's not just those games I mentioned. All across football, teams with successful leaders lose game unexpectedly every single weekend. It's a team game and not just down to two or three "leaders" within the team.
It's just lazy to turn on leadership all the time. The fact is we need better recruitment and better footballers. That's the long and short of it.
Anyone, if it's so unimportant as some make out Clement should just go full PLG and give it to Scott Wright
The point about being a million miles away from Celtic would hold more relevance had it always been Celtic alone who had derailed our title or Cup bids...... but it hasn't been, it is also years now since Celtic were a million miles away
It isn't solely on Tavernier, but it is now beyond question that the likes of him Goldson, Barisic and Lundstram, the leadership group, are a trend in our lack of trophies and regular collapses.
Goldson himself has literally said he hasn't won enough, same is applicable to Tavernier, it's not just fans deciding that and people being huffy.
The reference to Kane isn't relevant, he hasn't played in a side with anything like close to the gifts and advantages relevant to their competition Tavernier has
This weekend alone we saw Arsenal and Liverpool lose unexpectedly at home. Must be a team full of losers as well.
"TAVS NEVER A CAPTAIN"
- ok who would you give it to?
"FUCKING ANYWAN!!!"
- aye but specifically, who?
"AW %^*& KNOWS THEY'RE AW FUCKIN LOSERS! "
That's genuinely the level of debate in here at times. Tav is usually the first to get it in the neck when things aren't going well. Our own "fans" point to his trophy haul and Celtic's success during his period here, as if it's somehow purely down to Tav that we haven't won more. Nothing to do with having charlatans like Murty or Pedro in charge or having to play alongside Rob Kiernan or Russell Martin. Nope, if someone else was captain, we'd have won more.
Funny how nobody was questioning him as a captain when he stepped up to win us a cup final a few months back.
Football isn't played on paper. If it was the best teams would never lose a single game.
The best Rangers teams of all time, in fact the best club sides of all time have all lost games to lower level opposition. Especially cup ties.
Rob Kiernan left Rangers in 2017, it's a long time since he played for us, you are picking on low hanging fruit and imposing it across a lot of people. We also lost a Cup Final to.....Hibs back then, which could have been another trophy, but how could we dare expect to beat them I suppose, we can't be a team who expects to win games on the park. In a game when Tavernier was genuinely rancid, and I say that as someone who actually does like and respect him, but he was terrible in that game.
Plenty of people make pretty logical points about the leadership group and how little they have won, including Connor Goldson. The likes of him, Tavernier, Lundstram get it in the neck because they are our highest salary earners, so of course they take the heat which comes with that
In terms of the broader point though, if Captaincy is so unimportant, it doesn't matter if Tavernier has it or not, so give it to who? genuinely anyone as some seem to think it has zero meaning anyway
You can feel the sincerity from certain players when they give their options after a match, and that’s what’s appreciated by fans.
The patter from some of the posters on here, after Tavs interview on Sunday, was riling me up. The, “what do you actually expect him to say”, “someone has to give an interview”.
Have a look at James Tarkowski’s interview after Everton’s performance last night, that’s what fans what to hear. Not a year on year failure to “we’ve got learn” getting thrown back at us.
Kiernan was a name plucked from thin air. It could've been any number of players since 2016, take your pick.
Nobody is saying the captaincy means nothing. But look at our teams since 2016 and you'll generally find Tav is one player who has always stood up and played his part. If everyone else pitched in the way he did then we'd have far more silverware.
You still haven't given an example of who should've been captain since 2016 and how they would've led us to more trophies? I mean presumably these guys were already in the building during this time...so did they really need an armband in order to step up?
obviously I don’t expect him to say that, read my post mate.If Tav came out and said "we were shite" would that appease fans? You honestly think it would?
You can pick who you wish, we still lost a Cup Final to Hibs, it wasn't Celtic who stopped that trophy win.... it was Hibs, we have had sides more than capable of more trophy, and league wins since 2016 but the trend of our seasons have generally been the same with the odd exceptions.
I have said who you could give Captaincy to, Scott Wright, just give it to literally anyone if the person wearing it doesn't have culpability for it
Or, accept it does matter and then come to realize the tone and messages from this squad have seen managers sacked and regular performances when we look to have completely chucked it and accept that actually, that does fall on senior members of the squad given they are the constant while the faces around them have changed
Nah you've said Tav's never a captain and suggested that a different captain would've provided more silverware.
Aye, thank %^*& McGregor was famously never into womenThat attitude will have a grievance on your hands these days.
The footballers now don't care about the winning it's the flash cars, Instagram and models they pull.
This bullshit that "they've got another manager the sack" that gets spouted on here....Can you show where I said that (you will struggle), comment on what’s said not the angry man quotes you are pissed off at that weren’t actually made by me, they were made by you and imposed on a massive swell of people you seem to be angry at.
He is the Captain, he has been the Captain and part of a leadership group during a time when we haven’t won much, that’s just reality.
I tend to comment on what’s actually been, who’s to know what could have been achieved under another leadership group or voices. I’ve literally no idea, I can’t rewrite the past. I could say we win trebles under Scott Wright as Captain, but what’s the point?.
The thing I’ve commented on is that it’s reached a stage that it’s now pretty much undeniable to the vast majority of our fans, that this leadership group hasn’t worked, and haven’t really always demonstrated and shown exemplary behaviour, they are culpable in what’s happened in recent years, again Goldson has literally said that. It’s not just a made up view of fans, they’ve failed, they are aware they have failed and regularly speak about it.
I can see why people get frustrated by the idea it’s always Taverniers fault, I don’t actually think it always is all his, Goldson and Lundstram fault, but the idea they as senior players, and highest earners can seemingly just shrug any responsibility and accountability is just complete shite really, it’s complete and utter bollocks, it’s a such a low standard, it’s so low they don’t even hold themselves to a standard that low. They are the leaders of this group, and they haven’t lead it too much and have seen managers sacked and played in gutless displays prior to their sackings, these things do add up on players over time, they are culpable.
This bullshit that "they've got another manager the sack" that gets spouted on here....
GvB was sacked because his football was turgid, he gave domestic teams far too much respect, and ironically he probably lost his job because Connor Goldson, part of the leadership group, was injured and he had to play a combination of Leon King, James Sands and Ben Davies as CB's towards the end of his tenure.
Beale got sacked because he was out of his depth, wasted millions of pounds on absolute dross, binned all width in the team and tried to play some sort of 4-2-2-2, aye but it was the leadership group that got him the sack too.
GvB could have actually done with Goldson being available.They were part of the process which lead to their sackings
Fans watched games like St Johnstone and Aberdeen, they know what they saw.
You’re right though, senior players and big wage earners have nothing to do with managers failing at clubs, nope, that’s nothing to do with them either (not really though)
GvB could have actually done with Goldson being available.
Beale got himself the sack with being so wasteful with our transfer kitty.
Show me where i said anything like that?
Clearly EXACTLY what they thought, judging by the lack of performance.55 after Hamilton the One, One game, the above quote, after yesterday and we’ll learn? why do players not just stand up and say what Allan Mc Gregor said! Yesterday wasn’t rubbish one word can sum it up it was, “Gutless”. So much ridding, playing against a possible relegation side, playing for their lives, did that shower expect the opposition to roll over like a dog getting its belly rubbed, disgrace.
They were part of squads with abysmal standards. Let's not pretend they were now inspirational leaders who nobody would wish to disappoint.We should have kept arfield for this reason alone. He would have started the odd game plays 20 sub appearances and scores 10 goals.
What he brings to the dressing room absolutely worth every bit as on the pitch. Lost Davis too 3 massive characters with standards we demand
Someone said modern day players are only interested in money and the dolly birds they can pull. McGregor could help with that.A lot of people have quoted me and said McGregor was a big part of us losing recent leagues. As my post says I accept that.
My point was McGregor the character is badly missed. Not the player, we have a very good keeper already just now.
But in the dressing room I'd rather we had more characters along the lines of him. Who bled Rangers and knew how to win.