He was a big part of us losing the league in his second last season
Remember Allan McGregor, “We Were Rubbish”
- Thread starter Twosignals
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But they still get similar points levels to all of our previous teams under Walter and the likes because, guess what, they lost games too.
People act like this is the first Rangers team to lose games we thought we'd win.
The fact is we've had far better Rangers teams lose similar amounts of games over a season.
Do you remember the treble winning side of 2003? We drew away at Dundee in the run in and lost at home to Celtic and looked to have blown it. Helicopter Sunday we lost again a must win v Celtic at Ibrox..and that was with Barry Ferguson who was undoubtedly a shouter and leader.
2008 we had a bit of a late collapse (not helped by amount of games admittedly) despite having Weir and Ferguson and others.
2009 we drew at Hibs in the run in and looked to have blown it only for Celtic to go and do the same.
2011 we were a McGregor penalty kick save away from blowing it and still required Celtic to then lose with 2 games to go in Inverness.
It's literally always happened even with our greatest leaders. Just sometimes we end up winning the league and these players land on the right side of history.
Does a leader make Dessers take the million chances that comes his way every game?
Answer me this- if Goldson had the leadership ability of Gough, are things different in terms of the errors being made?
Or is it actually that Goldson needs the footballing ability of Gough?
The players across the team must improve because it's horrendous, basic errors we are making to cost us horrible goals.
But the same people just keep shouting aboht leadership because of 3 players remaining from previous years. It's lazy.
Football changes, speaking about seasons from 10 years ago is redundant, trends and behaviors of the game change, they aren't trying to win the title in 2011, they have also already blown this league season twice as it is.
You are also comparing them to a side who won multiple leagues and trophies a raft of wins in big games, they had actions and behavior to validate why people praised those players mindsets, this group doesn't have anything like that. Sides of that time won a Final with 9 men, I can't even fathom how many excuses this side and sides of recent years would have made to not do that
Celtic would buckle at key moments then as they are like our side now and of recent years, they were gripped by nerves when it really had to be pushed over the line, they just didn't have the balls for it like this leadership group.
Speaking about players like Ferguson, Maldini and Messi and comparing them to the leadership of this group is just nonsensical, their careers were on a completely other planet.
They players and those Rangers sides regularly landed on the right side of history to the point it isn't just coincidence, it's want and will, this group regularly hasn't to the point it isn't just coincidence
If Goldson has a comparable mentality to Gough, he has enough talent not to have made the absolutely nonsensical errors he has been making in recent weeks. His form has completely fallen off a cliff, he IS a talented football player and there is evidence to show that, his decision making in recent weeks when under real pressure has fallen to bits, that is mentality related
People keep speaking about mentality and leadership, and it is repetitive because people have seen the same thing over and over and over and over and over
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Given all the mad mental gymnastics you've done every time I've spoken about where other teams with recognised great leaders had bad results in order to just continue shouting at the moon about leadership of this group, I'm gonna leave it there mate.
Literally dismissing examples of great leaders we had who found themselves in the same situation at the same club is a bit mental.
You obviously have your opinion and no amount of other examples is going to sway you from that.
Have a nice day mate.
It's not mental gymnastics at all.
You have spoken about Barcelona, Bayern, AC Milan and a Rangers side who won 3 titles in a row and multiple domestic trophies and said, they made mistakes as well as though that shows something, it doesn't, it is sport, teams can't win every single game and every trophy, no one expects that.
They sides did though do a lot to show why people had faith in their leadership and did win titles trophies and big games at a far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far greater rate than this group.
This leadership has years of blown moments and clearly not grasping the moment, it's a redundant point of comparison to mention those sides, it is complete nonsense, this group haven't fell on the right side of history often, that's not chance, they are being paid a decent salary to fall on the right side of history more often, it tends to be how football works, a lot of responsibility does rest with the highest paid players
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If Tav is a leader by example, is it any wonder why we've won shit all in his tenure
I hear all sorts of stuff about what makes good players etc, the best way to look at these things is common denominators.
What have we won over the time the longest serving players have been at club? There is your answer.
I hear all sorts of stuff about what makes good players etc, the best way to look at these things is common denominators.
What have we won over the time the longest serving players have been at club? There is your answer.
ElBuffalo20
Well-Known Member
A lot of people have quoted me and said McGregor was a big part of us losing recent leagues. As my post says I accept that.
My point was McGregor the character is badly missed. Not the player, we have a very good keeper already just now.
But in the dressing room I'd rather we had more characters along the lines of him. Who bled Rangers and knew how to win.
My point was McGregor the character is badly missed. Not the player, we have a very good keeper already just now.
But in the dressing room I'd rather we had more characters along the lines of him. Who bled Rangers and knew how to win.
DerHammer88
Well-Known Member
This weekend alone we saw Arsenal and Liverpool lose unexpectedly at home. Must be a team full of losers as well.
"TAVS NEVER A CAPTAIN"
- ok who would you give it to?
"FUCKING ANYWAN!!!"
- aye but specifically, who?
"AW %^*& KNOWS THEY'RE AW FUCKIN LOSERS!
"That's genuinely the level of debate in here at times. Tav is usually the first to get it in the neck when things aren't going well. Our own "fans" point to his trophy haul and Celtic's success during his period here, as if it's somehow purely down to Tav that we haven't won more. Nothing to do with having charlatans like Murty or Pedro in charge or having to play alongside Rob Kiernan or Russell Martin. Nope, if someone else was captain, we'd have won more.
Funny how nobody was questioning him as a captain when he stepped up to win us a cup final a few months back.
DerHammer88
Well-Known Member
Football isn't played on paper. If it was the best teams would never lose a single game.
The best Rangers teams of all time, in fact the best club sides of all time have all lost games to lower level opposition. Especially cup ties.
This weekend alone we saw Arsenal and Liverpool lose unexpectedly at home. Must be a team full of losers as well.
"TAVS NEVER A CAPTAIN"
- ok who would you give it to?
"FUCKING ANYWAN!!!"
- aye but specifically, who?
"AW %^*& KNOWS THEY'RE AW FUCKIN LOSERS!
That's genuinely the level of debate in here at times. Tav is usually the first to get it in the neck when things aren't going well. Our own "fans" point to his trophy haul and Celtic's success during his period here, as if it's somehow purely down to Tav that we haven't won more. Nothing to do with having charlatans like Murty or Pedro in charge or having to play alongside Rob Kiernan or Russell Martin. Nope, if someone else was captain, we'd have won more.
Funny how nobody was questioning him as a captain when he stepped up to win us a cup final a few months back.
Rob Kiernan left Rangers in 2017, it's a long time since he played for us, you are picking on low hanging fruit and imposing it across a lot of people. We also lost a Cup Final to.....Hibs back then, which could have been another trophy, but how could we dare expect to beat them I suppose, we can't be a team who expects to win games on the park. In a game when Tavernier was genuinely rancid, and I say that as someone who actually does like and respect him, but he was terrible in that game.
Plenty of people make pretty logical points about the leadership group and how little they have won, including Connor Goldson. The likes of him, Tavernier, Lundstram get it in the neck because they are our highest salary earners, so of course they take the heat which comes with that
In terms of the broader point though, if Captaincy is so unimportant, it doesn't matter if Tavernier has it or not, so give it to who? genuinely anyone as some seem to think it has zero meaning anyway
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No, it is played on a pitch, that's right, it's been on the park this leadership group have stumbled often
There is a form of expectation on our players to win trophies and leagues at a far higher rate than they have, unsure what we are even doing here if we are going to pretend the trophy ratio in recent years was expected, just lowering standards to suit failure, fantastic.
Awaydays72
Well-Known Member
You can feel the sincerity from certain players when they give their options after a match, and that’s what’s appreciated by fans.
The patter from some of the posters on here, after Tavs interview on Sunday, was riling me up. The, “what do you actually expect him to say”, “someone has to give an interview”.
Have a look at James Tarkowski’s interview after Everton’s performance last night, that’s what fans what to hear. Not a year on year failure to “we’ve got learn” getting thrown back at us.
The patter from some of the posters on here, after Tavs interview on Sunday, was riling me up. The, “what do you actually expect him to say”, “someone has to give an interview”.
Have a look at James Tarkowski’s interview after Everton’s performance last night, that’s what fans what to hear. Not a year on year failure to “we’ve got learn” getting thrown back at us.
DerHammer88
Well-Known Member
Kiernan was a name plucked from thin air. It could've been any number of players since 2016, take your pick.
Nobody is saying the captaincy means nothing. But look at our teams since 2016 and you'll generally find Tav is one player who has always stood up and played his part. If everyone else pitched in the way he did then we'd have far more silverware.
You still haven't given an example of who should've been captain since 2016 and how they would've led us to more trophies? I mean presumably these guys were already in the building during this time...so did they really need an armband in order to step up?
DerHammer88
Well-Known Member
If Tav came out and said "we were shite" would that appease fans? You honestly think it would?
You can pick who you wish, we still lost a Cup Final to Hibs, it wasn't Celtic who stopped that trophy win.... it was Hibs, we have had sides more than capable of more trophy, and league wins since 2016 but the trend of our seasons have generally been the same with the odd exceptions.
I have said who you could give Captaincy to, Scott Wright, just give it to literally anyone if the person wearing it doesn't have culpability for it
Or, accept it does matter and then come to realize the tone and messages from this squad have seen managers sacked and regular performances when we look to have completely chucked it and accept that actually, that does fall on senior members of the squad given they are the constant while the faces around them have changed
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Awaydays72
Well-Known Member
obviously I don’t expect him to say that, read my post mate.
DerHammer88
Well-Known Member
Nah you've said Tav's never a captain and suggested that a different captain would've provided more silverware, so go on, who should've been the alternative captain to Tav?
Can you show where I said that (you will struggle), comment on what’s said not the angry man quotes you are pissed off at that weren’t actually made by me, they were made by you and imposed on a massive swell of people you seem to be angry at.
He is the Captain, he has been the Captain and part of a leadership group during a time when we haven’t won much, that’s just reality.
I tend to comment on what’s actually been, who’s to know what could have been achieved under another leadership group or voices. I’ve literally no idea, I can’t rewrite the past. I could say we win trebles under Scott Wright as Captain, but what’s the point?.
The thing I’ve commented on is that it’s reached a stage that it’s now pretty much undeniable to the vast majority of our fans, that this leadership group hasn’t worked, and haven’t really always demonstrated and shown exemplary behaviour, they are culpable in what’s happened in recent years, again Goldson has literally said that. It’s not just a made up view of fans, they’ve failed, they are aware they have failed and regularly speak about it.
I can see why people get frustrated by the idea it’s always Taverniers fault, I don’t actually think it always is all his, Goldson and Lundstram fault, but the idea they as senior players, and highest earners can seemingly just shrug any responsibility and accountability is just complete shite really, it’s complete and utter bollocks, it’s a such a low standard, it’s so low they don’t even hold themselves to a standard that low. They are the leaders of this group, and they haven’t lead it too much and have seen managers sacked and played in gutless displays prior to their sackings, these things do add up on players over time, they are culpable.
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Davie Weir
Well-Known Member
Aye, thank %^*& McGregor was famously never into women
Los Pollos Hermanos
Well-Known Member
This bullshit that "they've got another manager the sack" that gets spouted on here....
GvB was sacked because his football was turgid, he gave domestic teams far too much respect, and ironically he probably lost his job because Connor Goldson, part of the leadership group, was injured and he had to play a combination of Leon King, James Sands and Ben Davies as CB's towards the end of his tenure.
Beale got sacked because he was out of his depth, wasted millions of pounds on absolute dross, binned all width in the team and tried to play some sort of 4-2-2-2, aye but it was the leadership group that got him the sack too.
They were part of the process which lead to their sackings
Fans watched games like St Johnstone and Aberdeen, they know what they saw.
You’re right though, senior players and big wage earners have nothing to do with managers failing at clubs, nope, that’s nothing to do with them either (not really though)
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Los Pollos Hermanos
Well-Known Member
GvB could have actually done with Goldson being available.
Beale got himself the sack with being so wasteful with our transfer kitty.
Show me where i said anything like that?
Goldson only missed 6 league games under Gio. The third of which was the Aberdeen game when Beale was in attendance, hugging Goldson actually, the decision on Gio had been well on the way to being made before that injury.
Beale was sacked for a number of reasons, it wasn’t solely the spend of money that saw his removal. It’s probable he was, out his depth, and he did talk rubbish, it’s also possible though that Beale would have won more time if he’d have had a Cup under his belt, but instead we had to see goals lost like that at Hampden which were just absolutely calamitous, a goal Lundstram and 2 of the back 4 were involved in, but that’s someone else’s fault.
Or if we had beat Celtic at Ibrox earlier this season when the ball was haphazardly and weakly headed into a danger area.
Or if he had got a win against Celtic at Ibrox in January of 2022, when Maeda went through on goal early and picked up on others not being switched on, but that wasn’t our fault! And it’s OK because we would never repeat a mistake like that!
Thank goodness those are the only three calamitous goals we’ve lost recently against Celtic though, solved that one, learned those lessons.
The last part, if you’ve not said it then you accept senior players actually are culpable and have fingers prints on it when managers get sacked? And the display on Sunday looked just like a lot of those displays that had gone before, with another manager saying pretty similar to
others who had gone before?
The mangers change, some personnel changes, but the often message about being switched on, energy and instruction remains, pretty consistent. It’s past being coincidence. We’ve seen it again, respond and engage under a manager for a spell, show the talent is there, but when the pressure gets ramped up, can’t really be arsed.
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BlueDel
Well-Known Member
Clearly EXACTLY what they thought, judging by the lack of performance.
On no planet does that team have more talent than us, so it all comes down to work rate, mentality and concentration. All of which, we failed to show.
DD1872
Well-Known Member
They were part of squads with abysmal standards. Let's not pretend they were now inspirational leaders who nobody would wish to disappoint.
DD1872
Well-Known Member
I doubt how much influence McGregor had over other players. He shouted and balled and distanced himself from any mistakes. He publicly blamed others for mistakes he was at least partly culpable for in order to curry favour with the fans.
Let's face it, he was a very good keeper, but immature and a simpleton. Grown men don't respect the character of people who can only shout and bawl, criticise and dont take responsibility. You need far more in your locker to be an effective leader than that.
Let's face it, he was a very good keeper, but immature and a simpleton. Grown men don't respect the character of people who can only shout and bawl, criticise and dont take responsibility. You need far more in your locker to be an effective leader than that.
Someone said modern day players are only interested in money and the dolly birds they can pull. McGregor could help with that.
