Turnbull's move to celtic could be off

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I don't believe this for a single second.

What I will say is, I just looked at their pre-season training pics on Twitter (I feel dirty now), they don't seem to be wearing any heart monitors/vests etc.

Still, I revert to my previous point. I don't believe there's no sports science or analysis at all.

EDIT: After searching online, it took me all of 5 minutes to discover that they have an extensive sports science team, which is currently with them at their pre-season camp in Austria.
Link?

It's no secret that Lennon doesn't value the likes of Jack Naylor, so I'm intrigued to see if he is still there.
 
Super Ally said as much in his book. After the cup final Souness told the players something would be happening in the summer to put the mentally challengeds back in their box
are you sure my recollection was ally saying it all happened in a week and only a few knew about it in fact it may have been murdo called souness first
 
"Then on May 12, 1989, the Scotland international was unveiled as a Celtic player again with the club having agreed a £1.2m fee with Nantes. "

"Johnston even travelled with Celtic on the team bus at the end of the 1988-89 season, to a game against St Mirren at Love Street."

"However, reports soon suggested Celtic had failed to meet payments on the deal and the transfer seemed to off all of a sudden. Few could have foreseen what was to come next."

Bottom line - Celtc jumped the gun and paraded Johnston, well before a deal with Nantes was concluded. Which is probably what McMurdo informed Souness of, and set the wheels in motion.
 
I see Jimmy Ping on his feed wearing a straw hat and a St Pauli top.
C*nt.
 
We signed him on July 10th 1989. Here is the front page of the record, the date reads July 11th 1989.

iel5xt.jpg

The Daily Rhebel lying clean out their erses in fact we had had john Spencer at the club at the time did not even registrar on their radar
 
Supposedly needs a minor knee op to clean up some loose cartlidge which would rule him out for 6 weeks. Can see this going through
 
I'm actually at the point now where I hope it does go through. I have no idea what is going on over there and why it's happened so quickly but they really seem to be an utter shambles. It's class.
 
Maurice Johnson problem was a tax issue with HMRC.I think was he was coming in during a tax year, he was liable for some back taxes to HMRC. Celtic said they would pay this and then reneged. Souness found out and agreed to play his tax bill and he signed.
As an aside, Keef Jackson was a 16 yo tea boy/runner with the Sun then. He was courting the daughter of an insurance broker, saw a fax from Rangers asking for cost of insuring MJ. He told editor of the Sun, editor phoned Rangers and asked if we were signing MJ. Rangers eventually confirmed, asked the Sun to sit on the story and the Sun would get an exclusive interview. The only exclusive Jackson ever had.
 
They certainly "confirmed" they were signing him prior to the SCF in May 1989. Can't remember when they paraded him and his girlfriend.
If rumours are correct Souness was already on his trail pre Cup Final.
joe miller rat goal ended up in jail that night, first ever game i went to with my old fella not the best son that weekend lol
 
So Celtic are still going to sign him despite him needing a knee op which will keep him out of action for 12 weeks?

They don't do anything on good faith so they will want a significant decrease in value regarding the overall fee involved

Have we not been known to do this in the past also?
 
No that’s not true . They paraded him the Friday night before the last game of the season . We played the sheep last game of the season when we won the first of the Nine . We got beat 0-3. Trust me this is true
My recollection (although starting to get hazy now) was as an Apprentice in the shipyards we stopped on the Glasgow Fair Friday for 3 week holidays. I can remember a team of us in The Clyde Bar in Queen Street Station looking up to the TV at teatime. MJ was paraded with a Celtic scarf. There were a few boos and and few cheers.

On the Monday when we returned to work. Everyone and I mean everyone were just stunned when the front page headline confirmed he had signed for us.
 
My recollection (although starting to get hazy now) was as an Apprentice in the shipyards we stopped on the Glasgow Fair Friday for 3 week holidays. I can remember a team of us in The Clyde Bar in Queen Street Station looking up to the TV at teatime. MJ was paraded with a Celtic scarf. There were a few boos and and few cheers.

On the Monday when we returned to work. Everyone and I mean everyone were just stunned when the front page headline confirmed he had signed for us.
Very hazy. He was paraded prior to the Scottish Cup Final being held. The scum cheated their way to win the cup and then a few weeks later MoJo was unveiled by Souness in Ibrox
 
My recollection (although starting to get hazy now) was as an Apprentice in the shipyards we stopped on the Glasgow Fair Friday for 3 week holidays. I can remember a team of us in The Clyde Bar in Queen Street Station looking up to the TV at teatime. MJ was paraded with a Celtic scarf. There were a few boos and and few cheers.

On the Monday when we returned to work. Everyone and I mean everyone were just stunned when the front page headline confirmed he had signed for us.

Your memory has let you down. See post #525. At least 8 weeks between him being paraded by the Dhims (12 May) and him being announced as a Rangers player (10 July). The Cup Final was 20 May.
 
Maurice Johnson problem was a tax issue with HMRC.I think was he was coming in during a tax year, he was liable for some back taxes to HMRC. Celtic said they would pay this and then reneged. Souness found out and agreed to play his tax bill and he signed.
As an aside, Keef Jackson was a 16 yo tea boy/runner with the Sun then. He was courting the daughter of an insurance broker, saw a fax from Rangers asking for cost of insuring MJ. He told editor of the Sun, editor phoned Rangers and asked if we were signing MJ. Rangers eventually confirmed, asked the Sun to sit on the story and the Sun would get an exclusive interview. The only exclusive Jackson ever had.
I'm sure the editor of The Sun at the time was none other than toxic Jack.
 
Lennons motivational skills will be to scream louder and longer at them, calling them useless cünts etc.

Dressing room will be lost before a ball is kicked in the new season.

Mental issues will be the headlines but in reality he will sacked because he is a terrible person and unable to manage.

Wee Neily has to let everyone know it wasn’t him being a knob. It was the players.

Long term that strategy fails :D
 
I get where you're going, but you're looking at it the wrong way IMO.

Instead of looking at his statistical output in terms of raw numbers (goals, assists) and basing your assessment of his potential based on that, you should base your assessment of his potential on the metrics.

The headline is that Celtic are paying £3.25m for a midfielder from Motherwell who scored 15 goals last season. On the face of it, 15 goals last season is a very impressive figure.

BUT

Three of those goals were penalties. While penalties still have to be scored, they're not really a good measure of your worth as a player, because they're high percentage scoring chances and they don't come from open play. And he is unlikely to be taking penalties for Celtic.

Therefore, Turnbull scored 12 goals from open play. Again, still an impressive number, but not as impressive as 15.

Digging into those twelve goals, using an xG model, a significant amount of them were either long range shots that were deflected, or shots that the keeper should have saved. His xG total means that from the chances Turnbull had, you would expect him to score only 4 goals. So he got very, very lucky to score 12 goals from those opportunities. Even if he was a very good finisher, you would only expect him to put away 4/5/6 goals. 12 is a stastical outlier that simply has to regress to the mean.

So the headline is that Celtic are buying a 15 goal-per-season midfielder. But if Turnbull hadn't got lucky, Celtic would be buying a goal-scoring midfielder who scored 4 goals and 3 penalties. For £3.25m. From Motherwell.

And FWIW, Turnbull is a goal scoring midfielder, because the metrics also show:

His defensive stats are poor compared to other SPFL midfielders (doesn't win the ball back, doesn't make interceptions, average at closing down)
His playmaking stats are league average at best (average for xA, average at dribbling, average for giving the ball away).

The source:

Pretty much this best interpretation of the analysis. Cheers for posting.
 
I was on the runway at Manchester airport craping my pants as it was first time on a plane and the wife and myself were flying to Orlando. Had an English Sun to read acting the big man all relaxed (was I fook) 3rd page from back on sports pages a small paragraph stating Maurice Johnson would sign with Glasgow Rangers later this week. Told the mrs look at these silly English press clowns can’t even get Scottish team signings correct. The date was Monday July 6th 1989. Phoned home on the Thursday and my dad said you,ll never guess who we have signed? Told him who it was, he asked how the fek I knew? Told him it was headline news on all the Yankee news stations and they said all hell had broke lose in Scotland:))
 
Went to work as a happy 18yo, Sunny morning.
Bought the DR every day.
But not that day!
Sun had it 1st on on front page.
We had radio 1 on at work and it was on the news every 30 minutes.
The most shocked I’ve ever been about football tbh.
Mo mo f uck yer Mo
We’ve go Ally f uck yer mo

Then
Mo Mo super mo
We’ve got Ally and yer Mo!
 
Of course they can, but these are not traditional statistics. These are advanced metrics specifically designed to measure the actual output of a player.

Rangers have spoken about using these metrics extensively in our scouting so far this season. They're prominently used by the top clubs in European football (Liverpool, Man City etc) and were developed because of the success advanced metrics have had in American sports (baseball being the most famous example).

These metrics are legit.

These metrics very strongly suggest that his scoring run is a complete fluke. His true average is closer to 5 goals. But the underlying advanced stats for his other stats - forward dribbles, passes in dangerous areas, creation of goal scoring opportunities etc - are all actually very good.

I’m not completely convinced that these tell the whole story - Barisic’s defensive ones are immense for instance because it only counts the tackles he attempted not the times that he didn’t attempt a tackle or was in the wrong position to try - but it’s not true to say that his underlying numbers are poor.

I do think that the main reason that anyone is bothered about him though is the goals and the stats for those are not good at all.
 
I'm unable to question the content of these type of statistics - I hated this subject when I was at college - no doubt because I couldn't understand it

So on a dummy level - I have difficulty seeing just how significant any conclusions arrived at are

On a simple level - surely someone in a struggling team will end up running greater distances trying to help out exposed areas & / or teamates on the park & depending on the opposition - will be 'forced' to pass more or less if they zonally mark your own players ?

On that basis statistics gathered from one match to another are imo likely to tell you more about the work rate of your own teamates or the opposition than the player being studied

Sure the figures might well give you a guideline - but basing much credence, making conclusions & decisions on this data seems absurd to me

Statistical analysis is not there to guarantee success. It is to give you an improved opportunity to obtain what you are looking fir in either finished player or potential.

Not an exact science but helpful info nonetheless.
 
These metrics very strongly suggest that his scoring run is a complete fluke. His true average is closer to 5 goals. But the underlying advanced stats for his other stats - forward dribbles, passes in dangerous areas, creation of goal scoring opportunities etc - are all actually very good.

I’m not completely convinced that these tell the whole story - Barisic’s defensive ones are immense for instance because it only counts the tackles he attempted not the times that he didn’t attempt a tackle or was in the wrong position to try - but it’s not true to say that his underlying numbers are poor.

I do think that the main reason that anyone is bothered about him though is the goals and the stats for those are not good at all.

Do you really think the underlying stats are good? I’m far from an expert on these things - and it would be interesting to compare his chart with, for example, Arfield - but not one of those metrics stands out for me. That’s not to say I don’t think he could be a decent player but it reinforces my opinion that it’s a very expensive, and very risky, gamble.
 
Do you really think the underlying stats are good? I’m far from an expert on these things - and it would be interesting to compare his chart with, for example, Arfield - but not one of those metrics stands out for me. That’s not to say I don’t think he could be a decent player but it reinforces my opinion that it’s a very expensive, and very risky, gamble.

https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2019/6/12/xw9d633xku355aocbm34s17kxie0pa

https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2019/6/13/the-david-turnbull-archie-an-analytics-love-affair

This blog is pretty good for going over and breaking down what the advanced stats mean. It’s also fairly impartial. If anything often seems to have a soft spot for us, possibly because several of our players lend themselves to advanced stats.

Confirms that the goals are utterly unsustainable but is very impressed by the rest of his play.

Personally, I’m not at all convinced by some of the stats and they can miss a lot. Watching our games against Motherwell, he didn’t stand out at all and that means more to me than these analytics. I think he’s been bought purely because of the goals and this is very mistaken.

But it’s not true to say that his advanced stats are bad. They are very good. I’m just not sure that they are the be all and end all.
 
https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2019/6/12/xw9d633xku355aocbm34s17kxie0pa

https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2019/6/13/the-david-turnbull-archie-an-analytics-love-affair

This blog is pretty good for going over and breaking down what the advanced stats mean. It’s also fairly impartial. If anything often seems to have a soft spot for us, possibly because several of our players lend themselves to advanced stats.

Confirms that the goals are utterly unsustainable but is very impressed by the rest of his play.

Personally, I’m not at all convinced by some of the stats and they can miss a lot. Watching our games against Motherwell, he didn’t stand out at all and that means more to me than these analytics. I think he’s been bought purely because of the goals and this is very mistaken.

But it’s not true to say that his advanced stats are bad. They are very good. I’m just not sure that they are the be all and end all.

Ah, didn’t realise you were sourcing info elsewhere. I was only looking at the StatsBomb chart posted earlier in the thread mate.
 
are you sure my recollection was ally saying it all happened in a week and only a few knew about it in fact it may have been murdo called souness first

Just going on my memory of his book. Souness told them that them at an end of season Scotland get together MoJo was dropping hints to Super
 
I was on the runway at Manchester airport craping my pants as it was first time on a plane and the wife and myself were flying to Orlando. Had an English Sun to read acting the big man all relaxed (was I fook) 3rd page from back on sports pages a small paragraph stating Maurice Johnson would sign with Glasgow Rangers later this week. Told the mrs look at these silly English press clowns can’t even get Scottish team signings correct. The date was Monday July 6th 1989. Phoned home on the Thursday and my dad said you,ll never guess who we have signed? Told him who it was, he asked how the fek I knew? Told him it was headline news on all the Yankee news stations and they said all hell had broke lose in Scotland:))

Or teams correct name. Typical English bastards.
 
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