Why don’t we bring through top youth players?

B

Ballymena Bear

Well-Known Member
With McGregor and no neck signing 5 year deals for them this week made me think where is all our youth players?

They seem to have a lot more than us, Rat Johnston, Tiernery etc.

We always seem to have great teams in our youth squad, just wondering did they just get lucky or are we not bringing them through properly?

Great to have more in the squad also helps when you can sell them on like biscuit hips for 25 million
 
You need to take 2012 into account. It affected far more than just the first-team. Some of the promising youngsters at the club left (Ness, Wylde etc), others were pushed ahead of their levels and rushed into the first-team at the cost of their development (Macleod, McKay, etc) and the groups we've had in since then are just really starting to bear fruit.

There was also the wrong people in charge at the Academy for a long time. Craig Mulholland's appointment has been a massive step in the right direction - as well as guys like Murty under him. The next few years should see the first real benefits of that and, personally, it's not a surprise that we're doing so well at youth level now after the changes that were implemented under Craig.
 
The Dude said:
You need to take 2012 into account. It affected far more than just the first-team. Some of the promising youngsters at the club left (Ness, Wylde etc), others were pushed ahead of their levels and rushed into the first-team at the cost of their development (Macleod, McKay, etc) and the groups we've had in since then are just really starting to bear fruit.

There was also the wrong people in charge at the Academy for a long time. Craig Mulholland's appointment has been a massive step in the right direction - as well as guys like Murty under him. The next few years should see the first real benefits of that and, personally, it's not a surprise that we're doing so well at youth level now after the changes that were implemented under Craig.
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Even the players who left haven’t made much of themselves
 
Celtic had the luxury of bringing more young players into the first team when they had a free shot at the league while we were in the lower divisions.

It's all about giving young players challenging game time which we struggle to do due to the demands to win every match.
 
Ballymena Bear said:
Even the players who left haven’t made much of themselves
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True, but it's difficult to judge how someone would have developed at Rangers when they developed elsewhere. It's a totally different set of circumstances. There's boys who have left Rangers and failed elsewhere that could have been better players to have stuck around (hiya Charlie Telfer). The different pressures, coaching, environment and even general levels of professionalism vary from club to club.
 
Chimo said:
Gilmour looks like he will go further in the game than any of the mentally challengeds mentioned in the OP.
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I've said for a few years now that I genuinely think Billy has the ability to be the best player to have ever come out of Scotland. He'll need a bit of luck but he's got pretty much everything AND really has his head screwed on.
 
Ballymena Bear said:
With McGregor and no neck signing 5 year deals for them this week made me think where is all our youth players?

They seem to have a lot more than us, Rat Johnston, Tiernery etc.

We always seem to have great teams in our youth squad, just wondering did they just get lucky or are we not bringing them through properly?

Great to have more in the squad also helps when you can sell them on like biscuit hips for 25 million
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Check out the difference in quality between our 17/18/19 year olds and their's.

We're now beginning to see real progression with our youth set up and we're leaving the scum behind.
 
Weird how common this thread is

When Rangers have a group of 18 year olds

Playing in the UEFA Champions League (and winning) for their age tonight

And then against mens teams at Ibrox in a week, that they keep beating

Having won the Alkass in Qatar just a few months ago.

We are at the Pinnacle of youth achievement, having been backed to do so, incase you missed it.
 
The Dude said:
You need to take 2012 into account. It affected far more than just the first-team. Some of the promising youngsters at the club left (Ness, Wylde etc), others were pushed ahead of their levels and rushed into the first-team at the cost of their development (Macleod, McKay, etc) and the groups we've had in since then are just really starting to bear fruit.

There was also the wrong people in charge at the Academy for a long time. Craig Mulholland's appointment has been a massive step in the right direction - as well as guys like Murty under him. The next few years should see the first real benefits of that and, personally, it's not a surprise that we're doing so well at youth level now after the changes that were implemented under Craig.
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Well said, bud.
Also, it has to be acknowledged that Septic managed to bring through a number of players whilst and because they were under no pressure whatsoever.

Edit: I’ve just noticed the similar comment earlier.
 
Ibrox isn’t a great place for young boys to play either, truth being told. I know it’ll be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t really care.

The least patient crowd over the course of 90 minutes I’ve ever been in, and it’s getting worse recently.

Some of the abuse young Middleton was getting around me in GF5 last season - for not skinning his full back every time he got the ball - after starting the season really well was absolutely disgusting and a lot of people can’t wait to write off a youngster after a couple of games.
 
Ballymena Bear said:
Forrest is 28 - 21 in 2012. We should of had these lads coming through before that
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So at that time we had Jamie Ness playing regularly (when fit), Gregg Wylde playing regularly, Thomas Kind Bendiksen on the fringes of the side, John Fleck was another. Ross Perry, Rhys McCabe and Barrie McKay would all make first-team appearances that season too. Kyle Hutton was also a first-team regular.
 
If didn’t have to stop 10 I’m convinced more of the current crop would have been bloodied sooner. However once we stop this,then I forseee much more you team players getting their chance. This group have several with a real chance of staking a claim.
 
Ter said:
They don't play many youth players though.

Forrest and McGregor are already established but they were able to play and develop them in the first team while Rangers were outside the top division.
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And that was a less challenging environment than Rangers in the lower leagues?
 
Ballymena Bear said:
Forrest is 28 - 21 in 2012. We should of had these lads coming through before that
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I don’t really get the argument, we can’t go back in time. Focus on the present and look at what we’re achieving at youth level, next step is getting them into the first team but what’s the point in discussing what we should have done 10 years ago
 
For the past what's been said is true. Right now it's simply because we keep signing players and blocking any path to the first team for them even if those players signed really aren't needed. For the amount of games guys like King have played you cant tell me a guy like Barjonas couldn't just be our 5-6th choice midfielder and play for the reserves when he's not playing. Guys like McPake, Middleton and even Hastie right now have no pathway to first team games because we've signed guys like Barker who weren't needed and just seemed to be signed just because depth and brought Ojo in on loan though that's just a one year deal so im not annoyed that he was brought in
 
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Our problems in this respect far precedes 2012. As a fan base, at least as long as I’ve been following the bears (year before first of 9), we have been accustomed to, demanded and got big signings. Regularly

Which is why, imo, we are completely intolerant to a player taking time to settle or have a few bad games

From souness onwards we have bought and bought and bought. If we had a player under perform, we bought a replacement. Usually immediately.

We played lip service to youth. Clearly players with great talent (McGregor, Ferguson etc) will always find a way through.

Now though. We have a plan and good people in place. It looks promising.

But will our fans accept a youth player coming in and underperforming or taking time to find their feet? I have my doubts.

Can you imagine mebude as an example being given a run out, missing an easy chance then getting muscled off the ball?
 
Taki said:
Celtic don't have to win every match.
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They didn't have to when we were papped down the leagues.

It meant they could build a team over time that could benefit from less pressure.

That helped players like Tierney, McGregor, Griffiths and Armstrong. 3 of those 4 would have been chased were they in genuine title races those years, and Tierney might not have been risked.

Forrest was as good as gone until Rodgers took a chance on him. No Celtic fan rated him at that time.

They got huge benefits from those years that they still dine off.
 
The Dude said:
Yes. Absolutely. Anything less than 5/6-0 and playing the sort of football that would give Pep Guardiola a hard on was regarded as failure.
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What?

strider said:
They didn't have to when we were papped down the leagues.

It meant they could build a team over time that could benefit from less pressure.

That helped players like Tierney, McGregor, Griffiths and Armstrong. 3 of those 4 would have been chased were they in genuine title races those years, and Tierney might not have been risked.

Forrest was as good as gone until Rodgers took a chance on him. No Celtic fan rated him at that time.

They got huge benefits from those years that they still dine off.
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And we had no comparable advantage over our league opponents?
 
The Dude said:
I've said for a few years now that I genuinely think Billy has the ability to be the best player to have ever come out of Scotland. He'll need a bit of luck but he's got pretty much everything AND really has his head screwed on.
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Sadly any player with anywhere near that potential will leave us at the first possible opportunity because of the money on offer.
 
I think when we win 55 the pressure of constantly winning, will be less than it has been and we will see more youngsters get a chance in the first team.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Check out the difference in quality between our 17/18/19 year olds and their's.

We're now beginning to see real progression with our youth set up and we're leaving the scum behind.
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Its will be really interesting to see there that crop of youngsters are in 4/5 years times as you say our youths doing really well and we as a club seem to be running the academy side of things really well
 
I think we've produced some good players, Lewis MacLeod and Barrie McKay should still be at the club in my opinion.
 
Ballymena Bear said:
With McGregor and no neck signing 5 year deals for them this week made me think where is all our youth players?

They seem to have a lot more than us, Rat Johnston, Tiernery etc.

We always seem to have great teams in our youth squad, just wondering did they just get lucky or are we not bringing them through properly?

Great to have more in the squad also helps when you can sell them on like biscuit hips for 25 million
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Before looking at other replies first I would say that we have never took our youth development as serious as we do now. Dave King was well aware of this from the opening of HTC back then and has moved mountains in ensuring it is fit for purpose.
Add to the fact we were in the doldrums for 5 years some kids might have chose them over us due to a better chance despite allegiances. They could afford to bleed them through Championship winning teams with less pressure than us trying to gain promotion.
We had Jimmy Sinclair as head of youth who I understand was not good enough and preferred bigger lads.
I was also told years ago Chris McCart when arriving at Celtic Park gutted their teams of prima donnas and brought well respected methods. Not sure if he is still there.

I have no doubt that Rangers will produce more products than they will now as we have the proper foundations in place after too many years of complacency and neglect.

Onwards and upwards.
 
The OP has mentioned a handful of players the scum have developed, whilst we were nobbled, and who could be eased into the first team under zero pressure to win every game.

Of course, that's overlooking possibly the best of the lot, Billy Gilmour. The fact he's turned out so good that he's been snapped up and whisked away straight into the Premiership doesn't mean we didn't have any part to play in his development.

Anyway, this is done to death. It's blindingly clear that the aftershock from 2012 attacks on us have caused many, many things to go wrong at the club. We're still working though a number of them now, including fatso hoovering up our merchandising income.

I'm very confident things are well and truly on the right track now, though.
 
BroomloanWATP said:
Sadly any player with anywhere near that potential will leave us at the first possible opportunity because of the money on offer.
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It’s the system that’s fecked, clubs like Chelsea being allowed to hover up all the best young talent (Gilmour) and then loaning them out to this and that club is a farce and needs to be changed.
 
Taki said:
And that was a less challenging environment than Rangers in the lower leagues?
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One was a well run club and the other was us.

Celtic could scoosh the league every year and afford to give youngsters game time.

We didn't know our arse from our elbow.
 
Taki said:
What?



And we had no comparable advantage over our league opponents?
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We did. But we played Perry, Hegarty, Cole, Naismith, McMillan, McKay, MacLeod, Hutton, Little and others and the vast majority were found wanting.

Had we not lost the best of the youngsters we may have bore more fruit, but given the level of opposition I'm not sure.

Before admin, we had the likes of McGregor, Hutton, Adam, Fleck, Wylde and Ness having made a decent amount of first team appearances from our youth team. Hutton made us good money, McGregor certainly could have without everything that happened. We didn't get the best from Fleck, but we're seeing what he could have done.

They've had less pressure and a stable club to benefit from in recent years. Look at them now - Johnston has been bumped out the team because the pressure is on, and they loaned Henderson out rather than keeping and playing him. That's the norm.
 
Ballymena Bear said:
With McGregor and no neck signing 5 year deals for them this week made me think where is all our youth players?

They seem to have a lot more than us, Rat Johnston, Tiernery etc.

We always seem to have great teams in our youth squad, just wondering did they just get lucky or are we not bringing them through properly?

Great to have more in the squad also helps when you can sell them on like biscuit hips for 25 million
Click to expand...
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Ponientebear said:
It’s the system that’s fecked, clubs like Chelsea being allowed to hover up all the best young talent (Gilmour) and then loaning them out to this and that club is a farce and needs to be changed.
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Probably better not using a player that’s been in and around the first team squad, making 3 starts, for most of the season and has never been loaned out.
 
Would love us to be going around buying/stealing promising youngsters from other clubs if at all possible.
What is the point having a Gilmour until he is 15 then off he goes to Chelsea?
We need to be stealing the top drawer young players from other clubs with offering first team football in front of massive crowds, European football and a stepping stone to the riches of the EPL.
 
The Dude said:
When we were in the lower divisions, anything less than a 5 or 6-0 win and playing the sort of football that would give Pep Guardiola a hard on was deemed a failure.
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On the contrary, people were delighted we were top of Division Three despite losing to Stirling Albion. That was my experience.
 
Taki said:
On the contrary, people were delighted we were top of Division Three despite losing to Stirling Albion. That was my experience.
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Certainly wasn't mine. McCoist had to play 11 kids and have 100% possession or folk were losing their mind.
 
gerrard32 said:
Would love us to be going around buying/stealing promising youngsters from other clubs if at all possible.
What is the point having a Gilmour until he is 15 then off he goes to Chelsea?
We need to be stealing the top drawer young players from other clubs with offering first team football in front of massive crowds, European football and a stepping stone to the riches of the EPL.
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We've been doing this, players like Nathan Young-Coombes and Kane Ritchie Hosiler were poached from Chelsea and Man City, Umaro Balde came from Sporting Lisbon, we signed 2 Northern Irish lad and Krystof Hampl too
 
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