Why don’t we bring through top youth players?
- Thread starter Ballymena Bear
- Start date
HelloMyNameIsMrBurns
Well-Known Member
You used Gilmour as an example. He’s never been loaned out and has been appearing for Chelsea this season.
The easy answer is the last 7 years of shite
Another that not many will admit is that the crowd don’t give young players enough slack to develop. They start with that intention, before the usual Ibrox atmosphere gets onto them as well.
look before our demotion and the difference between us and them with blooding youth players wasn’t any different. The odd one here or there for a while before they were punted as a foreign replacement took their place (usually as they were better)
Another that not many will admit is that the crowd don’t give young players enough slack to develop. They start with that intention, before the usual Ibrox atmosphere gets onto them as well.
look before our demotion and the difference between us and them with blooding youth players wasn’t any different. The odd one here or there for a while before they were punted as a foreign replacement took their place (usually as they were better)
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
This is the principal reason. Easy to take a gamble on youngsters when you are under no real pressure to win the match because you are cruising to the title regardless. Once we get that particular monkey off our backs then I've no doubt Gerrard will be keen to bring some youngsters in and give them game time. He's not been slow to praise them nor to include them in first team training - or even move them into the first team dressing room - but its a big step to include them in a game you MUST win.
JimmysGers
Well-Known Member
I remember watching Scotland U21's win away to Holland U21's in late 2011. Scotland were fantastic with Gregg Wylde and James Forrest on each wing supplying Jordan Rhodes.
Wylde was a decent prospect at the time, and had played his part in the title win earlier that year. Funny how careers take different paths.
Danny Wilson and Ross Perry were the centre-halves. Darren Cole on the bench, and Ryan Jack at right-back!
A certain Virgil Van Dijk played for the Dutch.
https://www.skysports.com/football/holland-u21-vs-scotland-u21/teams/246586
The lower league stint clearly affected us, although I'd like to think a better coach than McCoist would've done far more with the youth he had at his disposal, not supplemented them with Emerson Cribari and Anestis Argyriou.
Things are looking promising again at youth level but I just hope the 55 at all costs mentality doesn't affect their development.
Wylde was a decent prospect at the time, and had played his part in the title win earlier that year. Funny how careers take different paths.
Danny Wilson and Ross Perry were the centre-halves. Darren Cole on the bench, and Ryan Jack at right-back!
A certain Virgil Van Dijk played for the Dutch.
https://www.skysports.com/football/holland-u21-vs-scotland-u21/teams/246586
The lower league stint clearly affected us, although I'd like to think a better coach than McCoist would've done far more with the youth he had at his disposal, not supplemented them with Emerson Cribari and Anestis Argyriou.
Things are looking promising again at youth level but I just hope the 55 at all costs mentality doesn't affect their development.
Attended the Ayr v Patrick game at the weekend basically to see how our 3 young loanees are fairing in "men's football ".Houston had a good game defensively for Ayr but doesn't look as good going forward.Palmer I felt sorry for ,he looks a good player but is playing in a side who don't even attempt to play football and the club really need to be careful when selecting where our loan players go.Kelly is a standout and has everything in his game to go all the way.Hopefully it will be with us as a guy next to me was saying he was disillusioned at not being with first team this year and will make a decision on his future in the summer.Lots of clubs watching him apparently.
Maweepaljoe
Well-Known Member
This is definitely not simply because of our recent problems, the scumbags have traditionally brought through more homegrown players via the separate entity going way back to the 60s.
Murray said that economics dictated that developing our youth policy was the way ahead and then proceeded to dismantle the fkn thing.
Thankfully the current regime seem to have addressed this and hopefully we will start to see youths progressing to the first team.
Murray said that economics dictated that developing our youth policy was the way ahead and then proceeded to dismantle the fkn thing.
Thankfully the current regime seem to have addressed this and hopefully we will start to see youths progressing to the first team.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Kelly is contracted until Summer 2021. I'd imagine he will be offered a new deal in the next 6 months. So he will need to be making that decision sooner than next Summer. Rangers will look to sell him if he doesn't sign up.
I hope he stays. He has the current 'best chance' of the youngsters in my view. What we mustn't do is simply let him run down his contract to Summer 21 and walk away. He's too good for that.
Alex Venters
Well-Known Member
We,as a support,don't have the patience to allow a youngster to develop in our first team. The pressure to win trumps everything. Unless a youngster is utterly exceptional they simply won't be given the time needed at first team level.
It won't ever change.
I actually agree,I think once we win the league we may well see one or two drafted in.
Sounded like he won't sign any extension unless he receives some assurance of first team squad involvement .He is certainly a far more rounded player than the likes of Docherty and Barjonas and actually reminds me of a young Ian Ferguson.Certainly one we don't want to miss out on.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
I hope we retain him. However, if he wants to be part of the first team squad it's HIM who has to prove he's worth a place there. Has to be won on merit. I wouldn't be offering him assurances as a carrot to sign a contract. If he is to get assurances it has to be because he merits them.
fergie1959
Well-Known Member
Just as a wee add on. Serge Atakayi lasted ten minutes on his Rangers debut after a shocking tackle from a Motherwell defender. Unpunished of course. Who knows if he would have more game time under his belt if not for the thugs in our game? It doesn't help.
Marstonbear
Well-Known Member
We did. Sold Danny Wilson to Liverpool for £5m in 2010
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
£5m you still believe that ?
Kimarcus
Well-Known Member
It was like £2m no?
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
In the end it was nothing like that amount. I think the 'basic' fee was circa £2m with the rest made up of add-ons. Some of which he hit but most he didn't. I suspect we probably ended up with circa £2.5m. Not bad, but not the headline figure that was bandied about. Then again, that may well be the case with quite a few transfers - even incoming transfers.
Celtic have had a predominantly really shit record with their youth development over the years (lolz, no not just that)
Their previous wonder kids like Burchill, Donnelly etc - they were all shite.
I would say over about a 25 year period we utterly dick them in terms of the standard of youth player we have produced.
Their previous wonder kids like Burchill, Donnelly etc - they were all shite.
I would say over about a 25 year period we utterly dick them in terms of the standard of youth player we have produced.
Edmond Dantes
Well-Known Member
Because this is Scottish football...
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
I still think Lee Feeney will come good
wsb&warmy
Well-Known Member
Correct on all fronts.
1. We had no money
2. Scottish coaches don't select the correct raw material at times
3. We don't do enough technical work
4. EPL Academies snaffle up talent from up here as they have done for decades
5. During the glory years neither Smith nor Murray cared at all re youth football so we have no track record
2. Scottish coaches don't select the correct raw material at times
3. We don't do enough technical work
4. EPL Academies snaffle up talent from up here as they have done for decades
5. During the glory years neither Smith nor Murray cared at all re youth football so we have no track record
BlueSevenTwo
Well-Known Member
And that’s why Forrest and McGregor and Brown before them haven’t left Celtic , it’s their level.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
It actually astonishes me this has to be explained to some people.
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
Don’t be silly you know that’s not true but like your staunchness
Ehmm no, I do know that's true actually.
Tierney - aye great - Hutton achieved more, a large transfer fee means little without the games on the park - in context of fee inflation the fee involved actually isn't a kick in the arse of being comparable anyway, Hutton has been a far better performed at International level, Europe, England...
McGregor and Forrest, aye magic - couldn't dream of the football CV Adam and Ferguson have, Liverpool, European Finals etc over what it is the Celtic two have
Craig Beattie - never had the career of Ross McCormack, a regular mover in the Championship at a time Beattie was fatly rampaging around Hampden.
David Marshall - Alan McGregor has had the better career, a key performer in a side who made a European Final.
O Dea - was no Danny Wilson.
McGeady had now probably just about been outperformed by Fleck
I mean you you I didn't include Rocco Quinn, Ritchie Towell and Tony Ralston to be fair...
Celtic have a record of youth that isn't something worth shouting about.
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Us and the rims are absolutely miles ahead of everyone in Scottish football. Using pressure or needing to win games as an excuse is pathetic
As was said in the other thread. Johnstone has started against us at Ibrox 3 times and has started a Scottish Cup Final. They started an 18 year old at Pittodrie last week and then against Hibs in the semi final.
Johnstone and Frimpong are a lot less physically developed than McPake and Patterson so there’s no reason for them not to be getting a chance. McPake and Patterson have more potential than both as well.
The idea that somehow pressure stops getting kids games is an excuse only our fans use.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
Who are you taking out of the team for McPake and Patterson at this stage of their development?
Great white tadpole
Well-Known Member
We don’t have 1 youth player even on the bench for the first team at the moment and no one above the age of 18 looking likely in the near future either, everyone says mulholland is very good and the right man for the job etc is there any proof this to be the case ?? I would love a rangers side to have a few homegrown players in it but I just don’t see it happening in the next few years unfortunately
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
see you take a keen interest in Celtic then batter on chief question still is when was last successful youth player
Do you haven inability to read because you are going on about a thing I didn't mention in a seeming attempt to weight praise ON Celtic.... when did was last produce a successful youth player isn't a statement i have made, questioned etc - so that isn't a question I was answering.
I used a 25 year period to show a wider spread of data and evidence to show our superior player development , you then questioned this - I provided supporting evidence for my statement, an interest in Celtic, no - but clearly I notice and mock players who play for them...yet you are still pushing back on the want for something nice to be said about Celtic and a negative re Rangers despite the statement I said validating neither of they ideas..
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
You used a 25 year period simply because it suited you to ensure it wasn’t detrimental to your staunchness our success in bringing through youth or at least giving them opportunities is embarrassing it’s really that straight forward no need to go back 25 year just go back from now to 15 year ago our success is abysmal compared to other SPL clubs
I used a wider spread of data to validate a claim rather than a smaller sample size yes
The notion that is "staunch" is fucken bizarre, and acting on the premise it is (which I'm not, the actuality is I don't give a %^*& and didn't think of it at that level of depth ) you are by your own logic consciously going out your way to be "un-stuanch" which is slightly odd you would feel you had to ake that level of effort, detail and care into what is chippy paper banter on the internet....
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Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
I’m out enjoy your evening chief
No, but your own point is the reason.
We are miles ahead and thus the standard a player has to reach to play for either is much higher than it is for the rest of Scottish Football. A player not only has to become one of the best players aged 18-21 in the country, they then also have to become better than an absolute %^*& load of other football players who want our shirt, wage etc and convince a manager they are going to be better than a shit load of other football players he can buy
The general churn of players from both Rangers and Celtic is better than most in Scotland, the difficulty is producing players of Rangers and Celtic standard.
Even during Rangers years in the dregs they have produced players plying their trade in the top league in Scotland, the English lower leagues and even in the EPL now
The thing that doesn't happen as often is finding players fit to play first team football for both.
HENCE
It makes perfect sense to use a wider sample of data to show how rare and infrequent it is that players make the break to first team standard.
In the context of their own leagues and the standards needed to reach their first team the vast majority of league leaders have a pretty poor pathway for home grown talent reaching their own first team and playing often.
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Patterson should’ve been given a chance the last couple of months while Tav has been horrendous. He should also be getting game time in the league and cup games that against shite teams that offer zero threat and we’re ahead by several goals even if you don’t think he’s worth the ‘risk’ of a start.
McPake should always be in the squad ahead of Barker, Jones, Stewart, Arfield when it comes to options for the front 3.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
Crazy talk.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
McPake hasn‘t more than an hour in any league game for Dundee this season. In fact, in their last 5 league games he has a total of 26 minutes coming on as a sub and has been an unused sub in three of those games.
Moreloslaces
Well-Known Member
We had one about to come through, decided to go to Chelsea instead of staying.
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
Loan club has been poor for the lad
BrooklynBlue
Well-Known Member
Come on, this is nonsense and advocating change for the sake of it. Neither Patterson nor McPake are ready to play domestically, never mind in Europe.
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
Patterson’s playing in Europe tonight
It’s also the amount of money it costs to run the academy - I read that the other lot spend £4 million per year meaning that if you include Tierney and McGeady they’ll only have broken even over the 10 years since they built Lennoxtown. Although they also have other first team players(currently)
Over the same period with Murray Park/The Hummel Training Centre we have potentially lost £30/£40 million.
A lot of teams in England have disbanded their academies for this very reason.
There’s no point doing it for the sake of it/to be stubborn.
Over the same period with Murray Park/The Hummel Training Centre we have potentially lost £30/£40 million.
A lot of teams in England have disbanded their academies for this very reason.
There’s no point doing it for the sake of it/to be stubborn.
Yankeeger
Well-Known Member
simplyzebest
Well-Known Member
They benefitted from our absence in more ways than just having a free run at the league. That lack of pressure (which a 16 or 18 team league would allow in a different way) from us allowed them to blood their young players regularly in league games. Which they are reaping the rewards from. But it seems like we have a great batch coming through. Let's just hope they manage to get blooded in the first team or manage to get good loans that prepare them for the step up.
Partickger
Well-Known Member
If we had a free reign to win everything unchallenged due to corrupt footballing authorities, we too could blood a clutch of youngsters.
He's playing in a team of kids, most of whom won't make it as senior pros, against another team of kids who also will struggle to make it in the senior game.
Murray park (as it was called at the time) was getting slaughtered for not producing enough talent long before 2012. Remember How Sinclair used to get slaughtered on here ? I am not sure why the bheasts have produced more players than us in the past 25 years. I think Walter wasn't big on youth during the 90's, the youth system with Sinclair was poor in the 00's and then money troubles in the 10's. It's looking better now though so we'll see.
