Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

DeeGer10 said:
If anything it’ll only prove what we already know that it was a massive stich up.

Those talking about compensation would that not only be due (if anything) to those in charge at the time (mainly David Murray)? That would therefore have no impact on modern day Rangers.
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and dave king, he was the other major shareholder
 
YoungGer97 said:

Sue the Taxman? Yes you can! - Morgan Jones & Company Accountants

www.morganjones.co.uk www.morganjones.co.uk

Not sure how reliable this site is but it says (and gives examples) of the taxman being sued. Seems to be precedent for it.
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They are all personal tax cases (and in England) so I'm not sure if a company could take an action like this, but again I can't see why not. In any case any action in Scotland would call the Advcoate General for Scotland on behalf of HMRC as a defender.

If BDO had suspicious of "bad faith" or malice in the dealings of an employee or commissioner of HMRC during their case against us, rather than just an innocent miscalculation then it would be interesting to hear what the Court of Session thought of that...
 
insanicdrunk said:
Said it from the start, we had a reducing debt of £18m. That is fck all in football terms, it was manageable.
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our debt at the time was less than Aberdeen’s and about half of Hearts’. And we were paying it down by about £2mill/yr. It was easily manageable. Especially as, for instance, Naismith and Jelavic alone would probably have sold for over £18mill.

The issue was the threat of EBT debt. And, if that was mis-stated then there has to be hell to pay. The only question is who would have a legal ability to sue. Murray and the creditors clearly do. But I’m not sure I trust Murray and the creditors are unlikely to have the cash to push this all the way.

I would have to question if fans’ organisations would have any power. We were certainly put through a lot of harm by these events and I guess it could be an interesting legal test case about ownership of a communal body.
 
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beowulf said:
Would be interesting if some bear could catalogue all the negative stuff posted this year that timmy believes will unhinge our quest for 55.
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Perhaps the club would consider employing a professional researcher to gather evidence of the bias, double standards and lies being thrown at us day after day. We could then produce an academic standard report to publish and name and shame the bigots.

Edit. Shock horror. It might be good news.
 
trueblue77 said:
I’m not sure I get the CRO bit about the bill being insufficient to see the company sold. The banks played Murray’s hand didn’t they ? Certainty liquidation came about due to the bigger ‘mythical’ tax case. All very interesting but I can only see Murray gaining anything if the donkeys years of court battles go his way.
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Club could have sold Jelavic, Naishame & Davis and paid the bill (c.£20m)
 
Tugay83 said:
Doesn't work like that. The club owed PAYE and Whyte didn't pay it. HMRC put the club into admin for the tax owed under Whyte. Not a snowball's chance in hell of any legal action from that.
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Had it not been for the prospect of a huge tax bill - which it now looks should never have been forthcoming due to an HMRC error - then the club would have been sold to someone credible who would have operated it correctly.

A shyster like Craig Whyte would never have got a look in.
 
I've always been suspicious about the way HMRC went about their business in chasing us for Tax. It just seemed that no matter what happened, we were being targeted. The leaks were (are) ongoing, relentless and sinister and have caused 100 millions of pounds worth of damage over the years.
 
GodStruth said:
Whyte would never have been able to 'buy' the club without the massive tax bill forcing Murray to get rid
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Yes, obviously, but you can't sue on that basis. We all know he was in the shit with the bank but that was between him and the bank. Murray can't sue HMRC because Craig Whyte didn't pay a tax bill.
 
It may not have led us to where we are but there isn’t any chance of action as hmrc ultimately screwed us as a result of non payment of vat and paye?
 
Paisleyprod said:
Scottish football and all prizes,trophies awards since this kicked off have always been tainted.

This should void the fucking lot of them but wont.
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Absolutely it should.

In the two-horse-race that is Scottish football, one horse was being forced to run with it's two hind legs tied together - the other galloped away in the distance.

That race should be declared void.
 
I’m in the camp which thinks we are unlikely to get any financial benefit from this revelation and I doubt we can sue any football authorities.

But there would be a significant satisfaction to see all the chunts that acted against us in anyway exposed for what they are.

We were shafted in turn by HMRC, Murray, Whyte, Chas Green & his Hole in the Wall gang, Duff & Duffer, SPL, SFA, SFL and probably a few I’ve missed. There’s also the body odour of Reid hanging around even if, as yet, unproven.

At least it’s should wipe the smiles of the clocks of the tramps and secvoites.
 
Tugay83 said:
Doesn't work like that. The club owed PAYE and Whyte didn't pay it. HMRC put the club into admin for the tax owed under Whyte. Not a snowball's chance in hell of any legal action from that.
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What part don’t you understand here?

If there’s no overinflated tax bill in the first place then there’s no pressure on Murray to sell to the first con man that comes along.

Therefore whyte doesn’t buy the club to not pay the tax on thus we don’t go into administration.
 
GodStruth said:
Its worth remembering the apparently fictitious big tax bill resulted in Murray selling to Whyte whose sole aim was to drive us into liquidation and strip our assets.

It led to us losing tens of millions in player assets, prize money and potential income from European competition. We were also subject to a transfer ban, forced down to the bottom division and fined on numerous occasions by the SFA/SPFL for resultant 'indiscretions'

A massive carve up
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Not to mention the tims being no where near 10 if it didn’t happen. They are the main benefactors of the whole thing
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Had it not been for the prospect of a huge tax bill - which it now looks should never have been forthcoming due to an HMRC error - then the club would have been sold to someone credible who would have operated it correctly.

A shyster like Craig Whyte would never have got a look in.
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That's all true but there is zero prospect of that fact forming the basis of a legal challenge regarding the club going into admin. To suggest it could is pie in the sky nonsense. Murray might have some other angle for suing HMRC but it won't be about Rangers going into admin because that happened under Whyte and for tax from after Murray's time.
 
Tugay83 said:
Doesn't work like that. The club owed PAYE and Whyte didn't pay it. HMRC put the club into admin for the tax owed under Whyte. Not a snowball's chance in hell of any legal action from that.
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Technically correct but Murray wouldn't have sold to Whyte if there was no overhanging monumental tax penalty. No one else wanted to but because of it.

Plus, the administration failed to sell the players which would've cleared all debt. Farcial
 
DavieM said:
Wasn't it rumoured we were a test case and that was the reason they were pursuing it so vigorously - even when they couldn't gain very much other than to just damage us.

Did any other high profile EBT cases come after that final ruling??
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our ruling ended up stating that each and every EBT had to be assessed separately even within Rangers. We were not found liable for all of them. Can’t recall what it depended on but things like the wording of the contract and whether any repayment at all was made (I think).

That made it utterly useless as a test case. No class action could be brought and any attempt to go after - say - Arsenal would result in a huge legal mess looking at every individual again but up against even better corporate and personal lawyers.

HMRC knew this for ages, making their determination to take it all the way even more mystifying.
 
Stu_m85 said:
Apparantly article coming out tomo in London times from David Murray, he’s suing HMRC and so are BDO over the EBT claims and allegedly BDO are saying that the club should not be liquidated and they have held off final paperwork!

That's the text doing the rounds.
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Don't want to sound pedantic mate,the Club wasn't liquidated it was the operating company that ran the Club.
 
Tugay83 said:
No. We went into administration because Craig Whyte stopped paying tax owed to HMRC from wages paid that season. The EBT thing was hanging over us and had other impacts but that was a separate historical issue from when Murray owned the club.
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Proximate cause and all that Jazz.
 
It
daven37 said:
I am suffering from some sort of selective amnesia.

Can someone remind me what part Craig Whyte's refusal to pay PAYE had on putting us into admin?

Have HMRC got their sums wrong on this as well as the EBT?

Whatever the reason, this is a an outrage of epic proportions.

HMRC better come up with some fxxking answers.
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was the straw that broke the camels back and got administrators appointed. Whyte managed to get his own in.
 
Total vindication is the best that we can hope for. Doubt we can sue or claim damages but if there’s anyway to stop the liquidation process then do it because nothing would make me happier then knowing no one can say we died (even though we didn’t) but the thought of knowing they can never even attempt to say it would be enough
 
Blu_ultra said:
I've always been suspicious about the way HMRC went about their business in chasing us for Tax. It just seemed that no matter what happened, we were being targeted. The leaks were (are) ongoing, relentless and sinister and have caused 100 millions of pounds worth of damage over the years.
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It was a campaign driven by spite with Rangers as the specific target.

The question is - who was responsible for it?

Who were the actual individuals within HMRC who wanted Rangers hurt?

Under whose orders were they acting?

Who was leaking information?
 
Great opportunity for the MSP for Govan to make a name for themselves and call for a full enquiry into how a historical business in her community was unfairly treated by the London controlled HMRC. Lets just hope the MSP has a willingness to put herself In front of a microphone or camera tomorrow?
 
Running the risk of sounding like a dumbass especially with how harsh this place can be at times however here it goes...

Would it be possible for a fans group for instance ‘Club 1872’ to sue HMRC on behalf of the fans for emotional distress or some sort fancy Law jargon along those lines?
 
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