More VAR idiocy in Ligue 1

Spudgun said:
They already are ignoring the offside goal in some cases.

Quite a few pundits have described it as "inconclusive" after seeing the replays. That's all it needs for the on field decision to stand.
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Come off it.

Every weekend in the Premier League there are offside decisions being made within about an inch or so.

If you think Celtic's goal would've stood in the cup final if we had VAR then you are simply paranoid.
 
RFC_Champions said:
We should remember that VAR is in its infancy and is an evolving tool.

Remember how shïte and poorly responsive touch screens were at the beginning (digital cameras, phones, atms etc).
Now some of them you hardly even need to touch it..... motion is enough and response is rapid!

VAR is the way forward.
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Have to agree, it's the implementation that is the issue. Handballs, red cards, goals not given can win or lose you the league. I'd prefer there to be something in place to make sure they are given... if they go against you then that's just the way it is.
 
If you think VAR is bad now, you don't want to know where the developers are going with it.

Within the next 20 years (if the footballing authorities continue down the VAR path), the "A for assistant" in VAR will be dropped, the system using AI, will referee the whole match with the meat sack in black being used only to implement decisions (if he's there at all).
 
dt17 said:
Come off it.

Every weekend in the Premier League there are offside decisions being made within about an inch or so.

If you think Celtic's goal would've stood in the cup final if we had VAR then you are simply paranoid.
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I don't think that goal would have stood, but there is no doubt that for whatever reason some decisions are not given in England which are clear cut. The Chelsea v Norwich game is a prime example. Clearest penalty you'll ever see, not given even after a VAR check.
 
There is no doubt they must start clarifying some of these VAR decisions and redefining it if they are going to carry on with it, but the truth is VAR has got most of the decisions right overall but nobody starts a thread saying "Did you see them getting that right thread". Its an avenue for people who are dead against to show they dont want it by starting these threads or the argument against it we still wouldn't get any decisions even if they brought it in and verges on paranoia. You cant say that until it actually happens. We have already possibly lost a cup final and could have had more points in the league if it had been implemented this season in Scotland.
 
RFC_Champions said:
Nicely put!

If we had VAR here, we’d highly likely have a trophy in our cabinet rather than it being in the tims cabinet.

I’m not a fan of VAR in its current form. However, it will get better, it’ll be utilised better and is the way forward.
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A fine arguement, but it might be a different tune when we have a winning goal ruled offside by the width of a baw hair. There is this pretence that VAR is some kind of infallible scientific wonder that is going to make footballing decisions perfect.

It isn't. And it won't. It's just another tool where the evidence is open to interpretation.
 
sairheid_bear1 said:
A fine arguement, but it might be a different tune when we have a winning goal ruled offside by the width of a baw hair. There is this pretence that VAR is some kind of infallible scientific wonder that is going to make footballing decisions perfect.

It isn't. And it won't. It's just another tool where the evidence is open to interpretation.
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I agree that we could be on the receiving end of winning goals chopped off but at the end of the day - if you’re a “baw hair” offside then it merits the same fate if you’re a mile offside.

Also agree that it won’t be perfect and it never will. But through time, VAR technology development and development of its use will get us closer to perfection than one ref and two assistants ever will.

To be clear, I’m not a fan of VAR in its current form, but I do think in this day and age - we are on the right path to explore, use and improve the technology.
 
ChristchurchBear said:
Sorry but I am now at a point where I think I can’t watch and won’t watch any league that implements this utter dross and farce of a system.

Monaco - PSG

checking the first goal for offside and it takes over 3 minutes - referee adds on 1 minute of injury time/additional time. Now not only are the fans being done here but that amount time impacts a game and either they stop the clock or they ditch it.

Secondly PSG get a penalty! Never a penalty - result PSG penalty! It’s just a total joke.
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Var works wonderfully well. Sadly refs get involved and it turns to rat shit.

Only thing I cant think has went right is their little spray can to stop the ball and wall moving at a free kick.
 
RFC_Champions said:
Correct! But VAR isn’t the issue in this instance. It’s how it was (or wasn’t) utilised.

Said on the other thread... it is the way forward and it will come good. All technology improves fairly swiftly and efficiently. VAR will be no different imo.
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It’s not a phone though and there’s no “correct” answer for many fouls. There might be able to work out a programme which works out offsides automatically in real-time thereby solving that problem. But it won’t be easy or they’d have done it already.

Everything else is up to personal interpretation. Firstly that takes time and there’s no way round that. Someone has to watch it from multiple angles at least once and then make a decision.
But even then it’s not always right so you’re potentially taking ages and not advancing anything and that’s nothing to do with technology and better tech won’t help.

You can watch a replay 10 times in a studio after a game and have 4 pundits who disagree with each other.

It should be used for offsides only and if they changed the rule to feet only then the computer could work it out in almost real time relatively easily.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
yeah but it will mean an end to scottish refs cheating they will have nowhere to hide they will have to be honest and stop going out to corrupt our games and help the tims.
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That should be the case but no ref is ever asked to explain their decision so they never have to justify what's happened. They seem to be shielded by the fact that they don't have to face up to their mistakes.

If Clancy had given them a decision and it was overruled by VAR and corrected it in our favour he still wouldn't be on the hook for the initial wrong decision
 
To me we should be making referees full time and PROFESSIONAL before we start jumping to the next stage.

You could employ a monkey and then buy a fancy computer for it to use. But need to train the monkey to do his job before he can use the bloody computer
 
Heard a lot of people complaining over West Ham’s goal that got ruled out on Friday night. VAR was used and found that he handled it and led to a goal which meant the rules had been broken.

Too many blaming VAR when they should be blaming the rules on that one.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Shit dive from Kurawa. Ref points to spot but replays show it's never a penalty. However VAR does nothing. No review, no word in ref's ear.

Isn't that exactly what it's for?
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The problem here isn't that we have technology that exists to review decisions; it's that someone has misinterpreted, or at the very least interpreted, the decision in a way different to how you see it.

It's like blaming a car for having a drunk driver in it.
 
Taki said:
The France penalty against Croatia summed it up. It's to give a cloak of respectability to bad decisions and bad officials.

I'm amazed that our club, and some of our fans, think it would work in Scotland.
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What, like the clearly offside goal that Celtic got at Hampden?

I'm more amazed that the Rangers support hasn't mobilised itself more in demanding VAR.

You can't sit back, moan about referees and then not want something that would help the team.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
What, like the clearly offside goal that Celtic got at Hampden?

I'm more amazed that the Rangers support hasn't mobilised itself more in demanding VAR.

You can't sit back, moan about referees and then not want something that would help the team.
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Are you saying VAR has given every decision absolutely bang on the money?
 
ClockworkOrange said:
What, like the clearly offside goal that Celtic got at Hampden?

I'm more amazed that the Rangers support hasn't mobilised itself more in demanding VAR.

You can't sit back, moan about referees and then not want something that would help the team.
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There have been incorrect VAR calls. There is absolutely nothing that guarantees the Celtic goal is disallowed under VAR. There were commentators after that game saying it was a tough call, difficult to tell, etc.
 
Taki said:
There have been incorrect VAR calls. There is absolutely nothing that guarantees the Celtic goal is disallowed under VAR. There were commentators after that game saying it was a tough call, difficult to tell, etc.
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VAR guarantees Celtic's last two goals against us are disallowed. Their cup final goal was clearly offside and the other goal was scored using a hand. You would need to be of a Celtic persuation to think the offside was even up for debate.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
What an incredible leap that is.
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Not really. You state the one from the cup final, which was obviously a shocker. But there have been plenty other decisions not given or overturned which have been clear cut even after checking VAR.

So what's the point of holding the game up for minutes at a time to still get the decision wrong?
 
WalterLoyal said:
VAR guarantees Celtic's last two goals against us are disallowed. Their cup final goal was clearly offside and the other goal was scored using a hand. You would need to be of a Celtic persuation to think the offside was even up for debate.
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I don't think he's saying that the goal was onside. It was obviously offside. He is correct though in saying that wrong decisions have still stood after VAR check.
 
Dave570 said:
Nothing is ever perfect as VAR will not be but it it will be a damn site better than losing cups through offside goals.
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I'll say this again. We didnt score in that game no matter how much you try to justify VAR. Things still ruining the game and if no one is willing to admit that, they are either ignoring the shambles its created or dont want to admit they got it wrong.
 
WalterLoyal said:
VAR guarantees Celtic's last two goals against us are disallowed. Their cup final goal was clearly offside and the other goal was scored using a hand. You would need to be of a Celtic persuation to think the offside was even up for debate.
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In your opinion. And that’s all it is - an opinion. There’s nothing that guarantees the referee changing his mind.

www.bbc.co.uk

'VAR incorrectly overruled four times'

VAR delivered the "worst possible outcome" when it stepped in on four occasions to overrule correct decisions made by the on-field referee, says Mike Riley.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
GovanFront4 said:
I don't think he's saying that the goal was onside. It was obviously offside. He is correct though in saying that wrong decisions have still stood after VAR check.
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What VAR does get right is offsides. The cup final goal would have taken 10 seconds to get the right decision as it was so obvious.

The reason there's been offside controversies in England is because fans simply cannot accept when a goal is deemed offside as the player was half a millimetre offside. So VAR isn't the problem in that case, the problem is fans who cannot accept the offside rule. It's doesn't matter if you're half a millimetre offside or a metre offside, if a part of the body which you can score with is offside then you're offside.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
For a linesman who got one chance at seeing it, perhaps.
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It looked offside to me but others, even for their own agenda, thought differently. VAR is not like goal line technology which is unambiguous. It relies on human interpretation which is influenced by other factors including agenda.
 
Why couldn't they? They ignore lots of other things. We score, then they see an altercation off the ball, and deny us a goal.
Fans can't even celebrate a goal now, just in case.
dt17 said:
You sound like a paranoid tim.

They simply couldn't ignore the offside goal in the final fs.
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Taki said:
In your opinion. And that’s all it is - an opinion. There’s nothing that guarantees the referee changing his mind.

www.bbc.co.uk

'VAR incorrectly overruled four times'

VAR delivered the "worst possible outcome" when it stepped in on four occasions to overrule correct decisions made by the on-field referee, says Mike Riley.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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The four examples you provide were all fouls and yes fouls can be up for debate. What isn't up for debate, however, are offsides and goals scored using your hand. Both rules are simple -- if a part of the body which you can score with is offside then you're offside. Hands and arms are therefore excluded. Regarding handball -- if there is a handball in the build up to a goal then the goal should be disallowed.
 
WalterLoyal said:
What VAR does get right is offsides. The cup final goal would have taken 10 seconds to get the right decision as it was so obvious.

The reason there's been offside controversies in England is because fans simply cannot accept when a goal is deemed offside as the player was half a millimetre offside. So VAR isn't the problem in that case, the problem is fans who cannot accept the offside rule. It's doesn't matter if you're half a millimetre offside or a metre offside, if a part of the body which you can score with is offside then you're offside.
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I think the problem with the VAR/offside thing is because of the length of time taken etc. I know the rules make it a black and white decision, but I think it should go with the naked eye. Few looks at the incident and decide.

It might have got the offside right from that game, but it's a bigger issue than that. I just really don't want it in the game. And to be honest, I think games would be less and less enjoyable. I think the majority of match going fans in England would vote for it to be scrapped.
 
WalterLoyal said:
What VAR does get right is offsides. The cup final goal would have taken 10 seconds to get the right decision as it was so obvious.

The reason there's been offside controversies in England is because fans simply cannot accept when a goal is deemed offside as the player was half a millimetre offside. So VAR isn't the problem in that case, the problem is fans who cannot accept the offside rule. It's doesn't matter if you're half a millimetre offside or a metre offside, if a part of the body which you can score with is offside then you're offside.
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VAR is a problem in that case. VAR is affecting fans celebrating - as described by a poster above - due to ludicrous nonsense like a player being 2mm offside. It’s not how games should be refereed.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
What, like the clearly offside goal that Celtic got at Hampden?

I'm more amazed that the Rangers support hasn't mobilised itself more in demanding VAR.

You can't sit back, moan about referees and then not want something that would help the team.
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If we ever play in a euro final and we get done over the way Croatia did in the wc final, then we'll see how many even dare come on here and make a case for it.
 
Taki said:
VAR is a problem in that case. VAR is affecting fans celebrating - as described by a poster above - due to ludicrous nonsense like a player being 2mm offside. It’s not how games should be refereed.
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You've said it yourself, 2mm offside. Imagine the fallout if the league was won this season by a goal 2mm offside.

Offside is offside, regardless of how far or how long it takes to get to the decision.
 
Taki said:
It looked offside to me but others, even for their own agenda, thought differently. VAR is not like goal line technology which is unambiguous. It relies on human interpretation which is influenced by other factors including agenda.
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No, but offside isn't.
 
Renfrew@UKGB&NI said:
If we ever play in a euro final and we get done over the way Croatia did in the wc final, then we'll see how many even dare come on here and make a case for it.
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We could play this game all night.

I could point to several decisions that have gone against us without the use of VAR.
 
Taki said:
VAR is a problem in that case. VAR is affecting fans celebrating - as described by a poster above - due to ludicrous nonsense like a player being 2mm offside. It’s not how games should be refereed.
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It sounds like you want offside goals to be awarded. It can't work like that. To have fairness in the game there has to be a clear rule which must be adhered to at all times.

We're getting our first taste of it in the two games against Braga so that should be interesting.

Apparently the cost for Scotland to get VAR will be £1m to set up and 250k per year. This would be shared between the 12 Premiership clubs.
 
sifter said:
You've said it yourself, 2mm offside. Imagine the fallout if the league was won this season by a goal 2mm offside.

Offside is offside, regardless of how far or how long it takes to get to the decision.
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Imagine the fallout if the Yahoos ever won it with a incorrect VAR call.

Imagine the fallout if we score a last minute winner to win the league and it’s disallowed because a big toe is offside.

Be serious.
 
Taki said:
Imagine the fallout if the Yahoos ever won it with a incorrect VAR call.

Imagine the fallout if we score a last minute winner to win the league and it’s disallowed because a big toe is offside.

Be serious.
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If the big toe is beyond the defender it's offside, I don't get why people seem to think there is a small margin where it shouldn't be offside
 
WalterLoyal said:
What VAR does get right is offsides. The cup final goal would have taken 10 seconds to get the right decision as it was so obvious.

The reason there's been offside controversies in England is because fans simply cannot accept when a goal is deemed offside as the player was half a millimetre offside. So VAR isn't the problem in that case, the problem is fans who cannot accept the offside rule. It's doesn't matter if you're half a millimetre offside or a metre offside, if a part of the body which you can score with is offside then you're offside.
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I think the argument is that the technology can't possibly be accurate for such fine margins.
 
WalterLoyal said:
It sounds like you want offside goals to be awarded. It can't work like that. To have fairness in the game there has to be a clear rule which must be adhered to at all times.

We're getting our first taste of it in the two games against Braga so that should be interesting.

Apparently the cost for Scotland to get VAR will be £1m to set up and 250k per year. This would be shared between the 12 Premiership clubs.
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Except VAR doesn’t give you consistency. We’ve already seen that.

I’m happy to accept the game with all its human error including offside goals against us and players making mistakes. I don’t need perfection.
 
sifter said:
If the big toe is beyond the defender it's offside, I don't get why people seem to think there is a small margin where it shouldn't be offside
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Yes, that sounds like the philosophical reaction such a decision would receive.
 
Taki said:
Imagine the fallout if the Yahoos ever won it with a incorrect VAR call.

Imagine the fallout if we score a last minute winner to win the league and it’s disallowed because a big toe is offside.

Be serious.
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An incorrect VAR call, depends what your talking about? I don't think it should be used for everything. Penalty decisions shouldn't be imo. Referee on field decision should how it's done. No amount of replays can change someones opinion of a tackle against someone else's opinion of the same tackle
 
sifter said:
An incorrect VAR call, depends what your talking about? I don't think it should be used for everything. Penalty decisions shouldn't be imo. Referee on field decision should how it's done. No amount of replays can change someones opinion of a tackle against someone else's opinion of the same tackle
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And yet that’s how it’s used.
 
Taki said:
Yes, that sounds like the philosophical reaction such a decision would receive.
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That's the rules of football mate. Similar to Declan Rice handball, as much as it was ridiculous and no one thinks that should be handball, it;s the rule now
 
Taki said:
Except VAR doesn’t give you consistency. We’ve already seen that.

I’m happy to accept the game with all its human error including offside goals against us and players making mistakes. I don’t need perfection.
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After the month we've had VAR cannot come soon enough. We've been on the end of horrendous decisions at Pittodrie, Hampden and Parkhead. These decisions can cost you titles.
 
sifter said:
That's the rules of football mate. Similar to Declan Rice handball, as much as it was ridiculous and no one thinks that should be handball, it;s the rule now
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Yes, it was ridiculous. So let’s not accept it as though it’s a system brought down from Heaven by God.
 
Taki said:
Yet debates about offside happen all the time, including the Julien one. How mysterious.
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Debates by people that you've already cited as having an agenda, by which I've taken to mean people in the media and not the people making the decision.

Julien is objectively, fundamentally offside, regardless of what Sutton, the official at the time or you think.
 
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